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Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:15:00 - [1] Thank all that is unholy for Hull Upgrades V and energized plating, and for the blessing of raising your armor resists so that you don't actually have to fit plates. That is what I wanted to say first; that I am not at all a plate-mounter. However, having attempted and successfully rolled a few level 2 and 3 missions in an Arbitrator, I suddenly have this insatiable urge to mount 1600 mm tungsten plates and just let my drones work while I sit back and keep a tab on things while I do more important stuff. This does not work though, because the power load becomes intolerable, and this does not go well together with the Arbitrator's somewhat restrictive slot layout. So, to the point... I'm not complaining. I know it's a game mechanic and that it's meant to restrict usage to some degree. But I still want to know why the heck it takes 500 MW and 28 teraflops to mount some damn armor.
Lenori Kallis	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:18:00 - [2] Why ask why...
Baron Primus	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:18:00 - [3] Systems compensation for the weight Use your imagination
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:36:00 - [4] Originally by: Lenori Kallis Why ask why... Well, it's not like adding a huge portion of armor doesn't have its disadvantages already. Logically, the damn plates shouldn't cost anything to mount. It's just that they should make it feel like a tub of lard when you fly it. With the dire need of an alternative strategy to nano**gotry it should become just a little* viable to make your ship hard and heavy as if made out of rock instead. Because there are already restrictions placed on it in that case, when it comes to agility and spee-... Oh, of course. MICROWARPDRIVES. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Hm. While on that subject, what the heck is the logic behind having microwarpdrives at all? I mean, it doesn't go together with the fluff or the warp idea in EVE. Not if you are to be able to fire weapons while using it. And the penalties to mount one are smaller than they seem to most. It's a rather combat-deciding module...
Angel Violette Imperial Syndicate Forces	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:37:00 - [5] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Thank all that is unholy for Hull Upgrades V and energized plating, and for the blessing of raising your armor resists so that you don't actually have to fit plates. That is what I wanted to say first; that I am not at all a plate-mounter. However, having attempted and successfully rolled a few level 2 and 3 missions in an Arbitrator, I suddenly have this insatiable urge to mount 1600 mm tungsten plates and just let my drones work while I sit back and keep a tab on things while I do more important stuff. This does not work though, because the power load becomes intolerable, and this does not go well together with the Arbitrator's somewhat restrictive slot layout. So, to the point... I'm not complaining. I know it's a game mechanic and that it's meant to restrict usage to some degree. But I still want to know why the heck it takes 500 MW and 28 teraflops to mount some damn armor. perhaps it is something like the around they use ins tar trek ablermative (of how the F you spell it) thats beeing put around the hull with huge replicators of something in the area. that would eed power. but shoo that i say QFT why does it cost bloody 500 grid to mount a pice of metal?
Baron Primus	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:39:00 - [6] SYSTEMS COMPENSATION FOR THE WEIGHT!
Elhina Novae Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:40:00 - [7] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Originally by: Lenori Kallis Why ask why... Well, it's not like adding a huge portion of armor doesn't have its disadvantages already. Logically, the damn plates shouldn't cost anything to mount. It's just that they should make it feel like a tub of lard when you fly it. With the dire need of an alternative strategy to nano**gotry it should become just a little* viable to make your ship hard and heavy as if made out of rock instead. Because there are already restrictions placed on it in that case, when it comes to agility and spee-... Oh, of course. MICROWARPDRIVES. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Hm. While on that subject, what the heck is the logic behind having microwarpdrives at all? I mean, it doesn't go together with the fluff or the warp idea in EVE. Not if you are to be able to fire weapons while using it. And the penalties to mount one are smaller than they seem to most. It's a rather combat-deciding module... Because eve is serious business man.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:41:00 - [8] Roleplaying reason? Who knows, who cares. Make one up. Real reason? Balance factor to restrict plates to the "appropriate" class of ship. Do you really want to see frigates with 4x 1600mm plates? PG/CPU is much simpler than having to add a mass limit that will only be used for plates.
diabolic clone Amarr Anomaly Collective	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:53:00 - [9] 1600 plate fits on an arbi just don't expect to fit much else, it's a battleship sized module. Some dev said back some long time ago that ships were fitting plates too big for their class. That sort of plate adds a lot of hit points so the drawback is not fitting a lot of grid heavy stuff like microwarp drives or medium engineering equipment with it.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 19:57:00 - [10] Originally by: Elhina Novae Because eve is serious business man. EVE isn't serious business. Game balance is. Because, indirectly, it determines how much CCP make on this game in the first place. Originally by: Merin Ryskin Roleplaying reason? Who knows, who cares. Make one up. Real reason? Balance factor to restrict plates to the "appropriate" class of ship. Do you really want to see frigates with 4x 1600mm plates? PG/CPU is much simpler than having to add a mass limit that will only be used for plates. Yeah, I'd go with a certain argument I've used in some nano threads here. And it regards and addresses both RP and game balance. You should only be able to have one nanofibre internal structure, because a ship only has one inner structure, and some components will not be possible to replace. And, according to that same reasoning (that goes for polycarb engine housings as well...), you should only have room or tolerance for one plate augmentation, because of weight and structural stress issues, and because most likely there will only be so many fittings for it.

Khandara Seraphim StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:04:00 - [11] Originally by: diabolic clone 1600 plate fits on an arbi just don't expect to fit much else, it's a battleship sized module. Some dev said back some long time ago that ships were fitting plates too big for their class. That sort of plate adds a lot of hit points so the drawback is not fitting a lot of grid heavy stuff like microwarp drives or medium engineering equipment with it. I think everyone in the thread gets this. He's asking why ANY armor plates require cpu/grid to fit when they shouldn't really need it. I like to think that armor maintenance systems etc take up lots more power when more armor is attached. Not reppers, exactly... just whatever keeps it in good condition when you aren't in battle.
Liang Nuren Perkone	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:28:00 - [12] Well what I've always wondered is why "regenerative plates" don't... regenerate. -Liang
Ral Ulgur Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:43:00 - [13] It's to satisfy the additional power requirements of the structural stress compensatation matrix of course... I think of "armor" in EVE as more as just chunks of random plating smeared around the hull. It's an active system that somehow (imagination) acts as shielding where it is needed.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 20:50:00 - [14] Originally by: Ral Ulgur It's to satisfy the additional power requirements of the structural stress compensatation matrix of course... I think of "armor" in EVE as more as just chunks of random plating smeared around the hull. It's an active system that somehow (imagination) acts as shielding where it is needed. And I think that you've been watching too much Star Trek: Voyager.
ThaMa Gebir Gallente Raddick Explorations BlackWater.	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:05:00 - [15] Edited by: ThaMa Gebir on 18/08/2008 21:05:30 Ok. All in essence good points. But think of it like this; Perhaps when you mount a plate your ships systems have to compensate for the added mass and thus agility reduction of it. Your ship is not exactly controlled by yourself, rather a very powerful computer which uses yourself as the basic cpu/control system, you are in essence the "joystick" but a bit more complicated. Now, when you give the ship a command the ship has to calculate for the descrepencies in the basic spaceframe if any and has to adjust thrust to weight ratios to get the most out of it, like warp etc. This takes a massive amount of computer cycles etc to calculate for. Hence the Cpu usage. Nowthen, because of the added mass of such a plate, your engines have to compensate for the extra mass to power the ship (noticed it isn't actually slower with a plate in normal flight, i.e. no mwd etc?), hence the powergrid used. Is that an ok explanation?
diabolic clone Amarr Anomaly Collective	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:26:00 - [16] Originally by: ThaMa Gebir Is that an ok explanation? That would probably effect the ships capacitor rates, I don't think there is a good rp reason behind it other than a defining game mechanic, although I always figured it had something to do with adapting the armor to the ships structure. Originally by: Liang Nuren Well what I've always wondered is why "regenerative plates" don't... regenerate. -Liang Same here.
Grarr Dexx Amarr Avenging United	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:32:00 - [17] First, let me ask: why the **** would you fit a plate on a mission?
Scathain Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.18 21:43:00 - [18] CPU- so the ships computer knows its there, so it can update your total armor. Grid - So reps work on it?
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 22:10:00 - [19] Originally by: Grarr Dexx First, let me ask: why the **** would you fit a plate on a mission? 'Cause I want to just put my Damage Control on, aggro, then launch drones, and run a small repper in the background. And then not mind things until in about ten minutes. I am a lazy tard, and I want to see if this works. Also, if you know your physics, you'll realize that the main thing that affects ship max speed in a non-drag environment such as space is not the amount of emission from the engines, or the pure energy output, but rather the velocity for the emitted particles. The more balanced in emission amount and the closer to your ship's current speed, the more efficient and effective the engine system will be. That's why NASA is putting in huge sums of money to develop rocket and ion thrusters which can modulate the particle exit speed, so that they don't have to burn huge amounts of fuel and can optimize the top speeds of the vessels these things are to go on. Or, in short, you're only talking acceleration with the added weight. Not top speed. And if the acceleration is reduced, this should mathematically mean that there is no increased power output to compensate for the plates' added inertia.
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2008.08.18 22:18:00 - [20] Personally I like the idea that the resistance you get from your armor comes from some kind of energy field running through it, which is why different races have different resists for what is basically the same compounds that make up the armor. So, if you strap a small extra plate on, it only takes a lil more juice to run the resistance field through it, but if you put about 5 feet of extra plating it takes a lot of power to hold it together. Now, if there is no power running through the network of fibres and reactive bundles and what not, then a plate is worse than useless, because it adds a load of mass while the plate itself isn't actually worth more than strapping a bundle of carboard to your ship, becuase its made to work when powered. Thats just my take on the flavor.

Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:07:00 - [21] Originally by: Liang Nuren Well what I've always wondered is why "regenerative plates" don't... regenerate. -Liang Or why invulnerability fields don't make you... invulnerable.
Securitas Protector Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:12:00 - [22] Speaking of which... does anyone actually use regenerative plates?
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:44:00 - [23] I've used them once or twice when pressed, and I imagine that some helpless speed-nerds might ogle them once in a while. Mainly though, I think that they should regenerate slowly, just to make them useful. Since they are not quite right now.
Elhina Novae Amarr Ministry of War	Posted - 2008.08.18 23:47:00 - [24] IT'S OVER 9000!!!!!!!!!!!!
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.19 01:12:00 - [25] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Originally by: Lenori Kallis Why ask why... Well, it's not like adding a huge portion of armor doesn't have its disadvantages already. Logically, the damn plates shouldn't cost anything to mount. It's just that they should make it feel like a tub of lard when you fly it. With the dire need of an alternative strategy to nano**gotry it should become just a little* viable to make your ship hard and heavy as if made out of rock instead. Because there are already restrictions placed on it in that case, when it comes to agility and spee-... Oh, of course. MICROWARPDRIVES. WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE! Hm. While on that subject, what the heck is the logic behind having microwarpdrives at all? I mean, it doesn't go together with the fluff or the warp idea in EVE. Not if you are to be able to fire weapons while using it. And the penalties to mount one are smaller than they seem to most. It's a rather combat-deciding module... The in game reason? In the future ships are held together by super intelligent electric fields. In actuality? Because: A) Extenders require PG and CPU (reasonably) the whines would beome deafening if suddeny plates were free to fit B) Force compromises in fitting - afterall if plates were free to fit all the whining about using fitting mods to get my guns to fit would seem kinda silly.
Syringe Morphine Inc	Posted - 2008.08.19 02:57:00 - [26] Egads Marty!!! One Point Twenty One Gigawatts!!!
Kiviar Caldari Bloodmoney Incorporated	Posted - 2008.08.19 03:06:00 - [27] Its pronounced jigawatts.
Webster Carr Gallente Magellan Exploration and Survey	Posted - 2008.08.19 03:07:00 - [28] Originally by: Aleus Stygian Originally by: Grarr Dexx First, let me ask: why the **** would you fit a plate on a mission? 'Cause I want to just put my Damage Control on, aggro, then launch drones, and run a small repper in the background. And then not mind things until in about ten minutes. I am a lazy tard, and I want to see if this works. Also, if you know your physics, you'll realize that the main thing that affects ship max speed in a non-drag environment such as space is not the amount of emission from the engines, or the pure energy output, but rather the velocity for the emitted particles. The more balanced in emission amount and the closer to your ship's current speed, the more efficient and effective the engine system will be. That's why NASA is putting in huge sums of money to develop rocket and ion thrusters which can modulate the particle exit speed, so that they don't have to burn huge amounts of fuel and can optimize the top speeds of the vessels these things are to go on. Or, in short, you're only talking acceleration with the added weight. Not top speed. And if the acceleration is reduced, this should mathematically mean that there is no increased power output to compensate for the plates' added inertia. Don't even get started there, that way lies madness... Next you're going to start asking why you actually slow down after turning off your afterburner in a 0 drag environment.... Peace, Webb
KarGard Agent-Orange	Posted - 2008.08.19 03:15:00 - [29] Originally by: Webster Carr Don't even get started there, that way lies madness... Next you're going to start asking why you actually slow down after turning off your afterburner in a 0 drag environment.... Peace, Webb That one is actually really easy. Eve doesn't take pace in space. Instead it is in a universe filled with ether. This explains why ships have a maximum velocity, and why they slow down when engines are turned off.
Shereza	Posted - 2008.08.19 04:16:00 - [30] Regenerative plates are awesome, awesome in how close to useless they are. Going by EFT I need to mount 5 1600mm RT plates on an abaddon before an ERM yields more HP than another plate. I suppose that taking into account the complete lack of penalties and the fact that they can be mounted on frigates, and are a percentage booster, not a flat rate, they should be limited in how much HP they provide, but 15% maximum, with no faction, deadspace, or officer variants to yield even 20-25%, is pretty low. Now, it does make me wonder, has anyone ever mounted these in a useful fashion on a successful ship design that would have been less successful, or even unsuccessful, without a regenerative plate/membrane?



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