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kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:17:00 - [1] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 15:22:34 Ive been asked to post my setup and i dont mind doing so now ive had my uses from it. Been using it for over a year and has served me very well. This is the best i can do with a harbinger with giving it a realistic use in pvp as 3 Heat sinks just do not work - I also use this in low sec to attack under sentries, so here goes: Skills and implants i use: Low Grade slave set - cheap 500m~ set 5% Medium laser dmg 5% all turret dmg / rof (im looking at pashans atm) 6% Ogdin Eye's Tracking To achieve the dps/stats below these skills are needed Level 5: Pulse Spec, Armour compensates, Battlecruiser, thermodynamics, & all related supporting skills including AWU 5. Level 4 Energy Weapon Rigging. 7x HP II / Conflag - You have a bonus, conflag is fine- Tracking is only an issue with cruisers > so use scorch, no cruiser is tanking you. 1x OL Module. 1x 10mn II Afterburner. 1x Faint Propulsion inhibitor 1x Fleeting Web 1x Small Cap Booster II w/200's - Cap lasts for 3mins 28 seconds with everything running, its not going to tank much, but it just needs some protection versus neuting and as long as its keeping your main tank alive your guns then this is enough. 1x MAR II 2x EANM II 1x DCU II 2x Heat Sink II Drones: Hammerheads II / Valk's, down to you. Rigs: 1x Energy Burst Aerator 1x Energy Collision Accelerator Stats: 845 dps (with pashans) 830 dps with 5%. With overload (lasts for 53seconds) 931 dps, 948 dps with pashans 9.1k armour (more than many battleships base) After gang skills about 10k. Resistances 75, 68, 63, 60, 52,150 EHP. imho this is how the harbinger should be fit, slate all you want, but this is the cookie cutter. Once you have the implants the setups less than 20m. The Harbinger has an unsually large base capacitor when your fully skilled and without a Microwarp drive you'll find you can easily downsize to a small cap booster and keep things running smooth. A competant pilot with the above setup in a fight where he/she is ignored will be knocking the hostile targets ignorance with a sledge hammer, it boasts more DPS than most average battleship pilots, with the agility and buffer long enough to escape most gangs if you see it coming. Enjoy.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:26:00 - [2] Edited by: Furb Killer on 19/08/2008 15:27:08 Wouldnt 1 eanm -> another heatsink and changing the rigs to trimarks be better? And if you think trimarks are too expensive just dont rig it. I personally prefer with MWD till nano nerf, and i rather have 800mm plate since you wont be able to run that repper much anyway. Enough battleships to over 1000 dps without the need to overload and they dont need a couple of billion in implants in their head.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:31:00 - [3] Originally by: Furb Killer Wouldnt 1 eanm -> another heatsink and changing the rigs to trimarks be better? And if you think trimarks are too expensive just dont rig it. I personally prefer with MWD till nano nerf, and i rather have 800mm plate since you wont be able to run that repper much anyway. No, theres no way id put on 45m of rigs to a battlecruiser. The rigs i put on are less than 5m each prolly even less now. Battlecruisers that put on more than there worth imho are a waste of isk. Invest in your Pod. Unless your in 0.0 then your screwed both ways. The repper, guns, afterburner all run for nearly 4mins. 5+ without ab. Overloaded and the MAR + exile (again 5-6m if you want it) can prove to more useful, espcially if your tanking some silly nano recons aka Rapier or Curse. Il show you what it can do when i get my next video out.
Gawain Hill	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:33:00 - [4] personally i'd drop the dc for another heat sink. drop the rigs either for trimarks or rep ammount/rep time rigs. i'd use amarr navy multi-spec over conflag sure tracking might not but a HUGE issue but you'll still miss less so get more acctual damage.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:37:00 - [5] Edited by: Furb Killer on 19/08/2008 15:40:06 Sorry but i dont use pirate vids to determine what a ship can do. I know what the average target equips his ship with and then it isnt that impressive. For those cap times you are assuming no one neuts you and you start with a full capacitor, allthough often you wont be near a full capacitor due to warping. Less than 20 million sounds also a bit too optimistic to me, especially when rigged there is no way you get it for under 20 million. And even in low sec i wouldnt be flying arround with 1B in implants. Edit: Getting rid of DC is bad idea, then just get rid of an eanm and get rid of rigs (stacking penalties anyway). Huginn nano wont be a problem, load scorch and you easily shoot them down. (allthough they dont go down as fast as ishtars). But a curse, do you really think you will be running many rep cycles against a curse? Edit2: I never said i would put 45M rigs on a BC, i wouldnt. But i also wouldnt put a billion in my head.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:38:00 - [6] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 15:41:54 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 15:40:13 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 15:39:14 I'd never put 45M of rigs on a BC. It's silly. Yes, you get more effectiveness, true. However your ship becomes horribly cost-ineffective... Also, the equivalent of three gyros/magstabs/heatsinks is enough (so 2 obtained by heatsinks, and one replaced by two cheap rigs). Less (as some suggested) jeopardizes gank, more gives you significantly less buffer for a too small increase in DPS. It's a OK setup. I personally would use something different on a Harbringer, but ok. Primarily, I'd rather plate it (say, 800mm) and fit a MWD, even at the cost of downsizing a few guns. Quote: And even in low sec i wouldnt be flying arround with 1B in implants. Why? It's not that dangerous. Quote: But a curse, do you really think you will be running many rep cycles against a curse? Every turret (and missile, for that matter) BC dies to a Curse in a 1v1. Turret BS are only saved by heavy neuts... if they have them.
SuiJuris	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:43:00 - [7] Also, Damage rigs are stacking nerfed with Heatsinks, which makes them far less useful due to the penalties Amarr Navy MultiFreq's pwn Short range Tech 2 crystals you will get better quality hits which translates to more actual damage. Afterburner = Fail.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:43:00 - [8] Edited by: Furb Killer on 19/08/2008 15:44:21 Smart bombs, lag, etc. Never been podded in low sec (well except that time i thought AP didnt go through low sec, but i was on another comp where it didnt avoid low sec so i was happily going afk through low sec). But never been podded in a combat situation. But still i wouldnt risk that much for a little bit more damage and tank (okay slave set quite much more tank), but you dont get much more damage with those implants and you do get a lot less isk. Assuming it is correct and you can buy this for 25M isk, you can buy 20 harbingers for the price of the slave set. Curse: He said his repper would be usefull against a curse, wasnt me.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:46:00 - [9] Originally by: SuiJuris Also, Damage rigs are stacking nerfed with Heatsinks Yes. It gives you the DPS equalivent of three heatsinks. The third heatsink is far from useless. Damage+rof rigs on a 2 damage mod setup is perfectly valid.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:49:00 - [10] Furb honestly that implant sets closer to 700m than a billion and is useful to all ships you fly not just harbinger. 700m is not alot for pod investment, most serious pvp'ers will invest the bare minimum of that tbh. As for stacking nerf'ed the rigs = 1 heat sink. so it yields the same as 3 heatsinks with a third of the cost.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:52:00 - [11] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 15:55:05 Originally by: Cpt Branko Curse: He said his repper would be usefull against a curse, wasnt me. The horrifying thing is that a curse with just one TD effectively prevents you from shooting it, so with whatever buffer tank you have you're going to die You're right though, the rep is totally useless vs a curse. Ive yet to come across a curse with a TD fitted, mebbie when there fitting correctly after speed nerf we'll see something different, least then il be able to change my implant set and use AN MF and hope for the best. Still think it will track though. Also 25m is a rough estimate, but its close. 30 / 35m is still cheap if you have to buy everything from scratch, personally ive the most common modules sat in my assets from players ive killed.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:53:00 - [12] Most curses i meet also dont have TD, but you wont have cap left. And for some people 700M in implants is nothing, for many others it is a lot, which includes me.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:54:00 - [13] Originally by: kessah Ive yet to come across a curse with a TD fitted, mebbie when there fitting correctly after speed nerf we'll see something different, least then il be able to change my implant set and use AN MF and hope for the best. Still think it will track though. Not a issue of tracking, more of range. I can't hit a TD-ing curse orbiting me in a Hurricane, because it simply murders my range. Same should happen with TD-ing a Harbringer. The curse is preety much the only nanoship which I really avoid in a BC (or anything which doesn't have dual heavy neuts).
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 15:57:00 - [14] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 15:59:14 Originally by: Furb Killer Most curses i meet also dont have TD, but you wont have cap left. And for some people 700M in implants is nothing, for many others it is a lot, which includes me. Stop rigging your ships until you save more than 700m and then it wont be a waste :) Like i said, if pvp aint your profession then agreed its too much. Im sure the mining amount set is prolly more beneficial. Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: kessah Ive yet to come across a curse with a TD fitted, mebbie when there fitting correctly after speed nerf we'll see something different, least then il be able to change my implant set and use AN MF and hope for the best. Still think it will track though. Not a issue of tracking, more of range. I can't hit a TD-ing curse orbiting me in a Hurricane, because it simply murders my range. Same should happen with TD-ing a Harbringer. The curse is preety much the only nanoship which I really avoid in a BC (or anything which doesn't have dual heavy neuts). The cap will hold long enough for your guns to shread its shields and him being either killed or retreat to a none warp disrupting range.
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:01:00 - [15] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 16:00:56 Originally by: kessah The cap will hold long enough for your guns to shread its shields and him being either killed or retreat to a none warp disrupting range. Yeah, but you can't hit at that range when TD-ed. Fortunately, there's a ton of noob pilots...
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:05:00 - [16] Yeh, but the point you and i both mentioned was that Curses generally dont fit TD's and Scotch definetly hits at 24km. Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 19/08/2008 15:57:18 Originally by: kessah Ive yet to come across a curse with a TD fitted, mebbie when there fitting correctly after speed nerf we'll see something different, least then il be able to change my implant set and use AN MF and hope for the best. Still think it will track though. Not a issue of tracking, more of range. I can't hit a TD-ing curse orbiting me in a Hurricane, because it simply murders my range. Same should happen with TD-ing a Harbringer. Either way lads, try it, dont try it. Its a setup for people that want to know from FP4, since joining FW, people in militia want to know what i fit, i can now direct them here.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:05:00 - [17] Originally by: SuiJuris Also, Damage rigs are stacking nerfed with Heatsinks, which makes them far less useful due to the penalties Amarr Navy MultiFreq's pwn Short range Tech 2 crystals you will get better quality hits which translates to more actual damage. Afterburner = Fail. Really it doesn't. Afterburner = Fail in 0.0, and that's ONLY true because of bubbles. Harbinger sports excellent range for a BC and if it can't reach out and touch you you can't be stopping it from warping if all goes poorly. Pulse lasers track exceptionally well and anyone who doesn't bat an eye at the nearly 900 DPS this monstronsoty puts out clearly has little idea how much tank that gank generates. The implant set is actually fairly cheap (they are low grades after all) and I've never been podded in lowsec that I can recall (only get snagged in bubbles). Maybe smartbombs worry some but such a concern is a trifle. He has little isk at legitimate risk and his setup could easily prove wildly effective. I'd say it'd butcher a HAM Drake pretty handily, superior tank be damned.
Kulmid The Elear FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:05:00 - [18] Originally by: kessah Furb honestly that implant sets closer to 700m than a billion and is useful to all ships you fly not just harbinger. Yet you compared it to the "average" battleship pilot...
Cpt Branko Surge. NIght's Dawn	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:10:00 - [19] Originally by: kessah Either way lads, try it, dont try it. Its a setup for people that want to know from FP4, since joining FW, people in militia want to know what i fit, i can now direct them here. Oh, yeah, it's a fully valid setup and I like it. I won't try it because I'm a Hurricane pilot (will spec in that some more first) and don't have the skillset for medium lasers yet, but I definitely wouldn't like to actually face that Harbringer ;P
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:11:00 - [20] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 16:12:00 Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: kessah Furb honestly that implant sets closer to 700m than a billion and is useful to all ships you fly not just harbinger. Yet you compared it to the "average" battleship pilot... I compared the dps to average battleship pilot, the ship itself and the implants set i use are not for the average battleship pilot. Again if its not your proffesion then a set of +4's would be better, you'll at least train those skills i stated faster Finally as for what i post as setups, i post from experience in Low sec, 0.0 is a gigantic heap of steaming shit with silly alliances throwing silly numbers at a problem. In 0.0 dont bring a Harbinger, bring the capital blob.
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:13:00 - [21] Originally by: Kulmid Originally by: kessah Furb honestly that implant sets closer to 700m than a billion and is useful to all ships you fly not just harbinger. Yet you compared it to the "average" battleship pilot... I dunno, his ship puts out BS class damage (not gankship class damage but he it IS a size class smaller) and has a tank resembling the base tank of a tanky battleship. Would it win a slugging match with a close range BS? Nope - but show me a BC that can. This one would at least make the gank ship hurt before going down in flames.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:14:00 - [22] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 16:14:04 Originally by: Derek Sigres This one would at least make the gank ship hurt before going down in flames. And it does, ive the fraps to back it up
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:28:00 - [23] Quote: Stop rigging your ships until you save more than 700m and then it wont be a waste :) Like i said, if pvp aint your profession then agreed its too much. Im sure the mining amount set is prolly more beneficial. Trying to bring the discussion to your level? Again: I never said i rig my BCs. I have done it once or twice, they become alot stronger, and way too expensive to keep losing. I like PVP. But i fund my pvp by lvl 4 missions and ratting in crappy syndicate (which is worse than lvl 4 missions, the last 4 faction spawns i found resulted in 4M isk in faction loot). So i dont have nice trade alts which makes much isk, and i play in 0.0 most of the time. Even if i was in low sec i would have spend it allready on 30 battlecruisers before i can buy the slave set. Of course if i was in low sec and i did have the isk i would buy it, but not everyone has the isk or is willing to get the isk to buy these implants. And apparently you link that to carebearing... Also, when i see a curse on scanner in a battlecruiser, i am running. It is pointless to stay, even if you would manage to take out his shields (which i doubt you can before you are out of cap), he can just run away and warp out. And well the MWD: with the range of a harb you dont need the mwd to get within range. However it is funny and effective to use a mwd to stay out of range of blaster ships and let minnies fight far into fall off while you are still in optimal.
Commoner Caldari Empire Harassment	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:35:00 - [24] Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 16:14:04 Originally by: Derek Sigres This one would at least make the gank ship hurt before going down in flames. And it does, ive the fraps to back it up I'd love to see the movies, can you link me? I really like your setup, i've been thining of investing into that low-grade slave set myself.
kessah Suicidal Tendencies Ltd	Posted - 2008.08.19 16:40:00 - [25] Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 16:43:48 Originally by: Furb Killer Quote: Stop rigging your ships until you save more than 700m and then it wont be a waste :) Like i said, if pvp aint your profession then agreed its too much. Im sure the mining amount set is prolly more beneficial. Trying to bring the discussion to your level? Not at all, a pvp'er would have taken 5 seconds to look at the setup and known what it was for without needed it put into context for them. Since you needed the contex and continued on blind, i proceeded to elibriate on how a different implant set would be more beneficial to yourself. Not saying im right, or its the holy setup, but its the best for what i use it for, which i again stated above. Whether you feel i gave the impression it was the universal setup of Eve in all areas of Eve is down to you. I would not for example use this for a sucide gank in high sec neither, but you could. Btw, as i stated again before, ive the fraps to backup my statement about a curse, and if one did come my way i sit there waiting for it, knowing full well 4k of shields with 38% em resistance at best would melt quicker than me blinking... well i better make sure thats compared realistically or il prolly get grilled for that too, so lets say 4k of shield would be gone very quick. Originally by: Commoner Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 16:14:04 Originally by: Derek Sigres This one would at least make the gank ship hurt before going down in flames. And it does, ive the fraps to back it up I'd love to see the movies, can you link me? I really like your setup, i've been thining of investing into that low-grade slave set myself. Currently it is under contruction. Shall release soonÖ There is some harbinger in the link in my sig - which is a button
Corduroy Rab Xenocidal Uprising	Posted - 2008.08.19 17:30:00 - [26] Looks to be an effective setup, thanks for sharing kessah. I've seen FP4 and have been getting into amar ships as well, so I might give this a go once i get my laser specs up.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 18:03:00 - [27] Quote: Not at all, a pvp'er would have taken 5 seconds to look at the setup and known what it was for without needed it put into context for them. Since you needed the contex and continued on blind, i proceeded to elibriate on how a different implant set would be more beneficial to yourself. Not saying im right, or its the holy setup, but its the best for what i use it for, which i again stated above. Whether you feel i gave the impression it was the universal setup of Eve in all areas of Eve is down to you. I would not for example use this for a sucide gank in high sec neither, but you could. Btw, as i stated again before, ive the fraps to backup my statement about a curse, and if one did come my way i sit there waiting for it, knowing full well 4k of shields with 38% em resistance at best would melt quicker than me blinking... well i better make sure thats compared realistically or il prolly get grilled for that too, so lets say 4k of shield would be gone very quick. How low exactly is your level? It must be really low. Where exactly did you need to put anything in context for me? (besides your imagination)... You dont have fraps to back up your statement. You have fraps to backup how you destroyed one curse (or forced it to run i assume). That is something totally different. IIRC someone once destroyed a carrier with a drake or something like that. According to you that means that drake setup beats the average carrier.
atomic killer	Posted - 2008.08.19 18:33:00 - [28] no mwd = fail, once u get podded you will stop using all those fancy implants. Otherwise it is a good ship.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.08.19 18:43:00 - [29] Edited by: The Djego on 19/08/2008 18:44:12 Originally by: atomic killer no mwd = fail, once u get podded you will stop using all those fancy implants. Otherwise it is a good ship. I think you didn¦t get the Low Sec thing in the OP. Lost 2 Pods so far during Low Sec PVP(1. in a Frig fight with a bit lag in the end and the 2. against a Disko BS in my Ceptor ). Getting the Pod without a Bubble is hard, and whise Pilotes will nail most ships that acutaly can get a pod locked fast first if they engaged by a Gang.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.08.19 18:45:00 - [30] Edited by: Furb Killer on 19/08/2008 18:46:29 Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots. Which is assuming you start with full cap. But anyway he claimed a MAR was good against a curse for example, but against a curse a plate is better. Against a huginn i can agree, otherwise you can die a very slow death when you are buffer tanked. But not against a curse. Almost always you can escape with your pod in low sec, but it can always happen they get you due to some lag. Once in tama in a FW fleet fight they also warpjammed my pod due to the enormous ammount of lag. (was only one kestrel that had me warpjammmed + was shooting me, and i was at the gate and finally managed to jump through the gate when my pod was at 30% hull).

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