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kessah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2008.08.20 08:37:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Furb Killer Edited by: Furb Killer on 19/08/2008 18:46:29
Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots.
Which is assuming you start with full cap.
But anyway he claimed a MAR was good against a curse for example, but against a curse a plate is better. Against a huginn i can agree, otherwise you can die a very slow death when you are buffer tanked. But not against a curse.
Almost always you can escape with your pod in low sec, but it can always happen they get you due to some lag. Once in tama in a FW fleet fight they also warpjammed my pod due to the enormous ammount of lag. (was only one kestrel that had me warpjammmed + was shooting me, and i was at the gate and finally managed to jump through the gate when my pod was at 30% hull).
Furb i didnt claim a MAR was good agaisnt a curse. Now your just sprowting lies to support your own dumb self.
I actually said it would be more useful than a plate. Because frankly i think the dps with most plate harbingers are pathetic and wont scare off a curse. And when you scare the Curse away you can start to recap that armour / shoot his drones.
I unsure why this thread has moved on to some magical 1v1 with a curse, id be more scared of a falcon, lach/arazu or any other ship classes that would give me a headache. Imho the Curse is the least of your worries at this point.
Also if you want to fight in 0.0 best of not commenting on my threads, because they are for low sec, my pods generally stay alive here so a mere 700m is pennies compared to what others have lost in ships / rigs without them in 0.0 |
Vanderie
Amarr Athanasius Inc.
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Posted - 2008.09.24 22:20:00 -
[32]
I really like this Harbinger set up, being Amarr/Gallente specced myself. It's got the DPS to drop anyone who gets too ****y, and the range (as was said earlier) to reach out and touch someone.
I recently splurged on a full LG slave set w/ hard-wirings, and good lord are they cheap (I think I paid 550m for my slave set and around 250m for the other implants ). It does take your standard t2 fit and elevate it to a whole new level.
Also, I will back up kessah. The average nano-curse will not be fitting a tracking disruptor (though I always do, as you probably remember when I killed your old harbinger with my old corp ; I think you made a post about it somewhere), and you will essentially rip through his shields like a hot knife through butter if he doesn't have one.
Good stuff kessah.
-V
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Lars Lodar
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2008.09.24 22:40:00 -
[33]
It's a damn good setup and has blown many people out of the water.
In gang fights its rather scary how much hurt they can dish out. Good work Kess.
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Kregeo
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:32:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Kregeo on 24/09/2008 23:32:08 .
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:32:00 -
[35]
Edited by: AstroPhobic on 24/09/2008 23:35:04
Originally by: Kregeo .
Hit the enter button a bit too soon champ?
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kessah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:33:00 -
[36]
Originally by: AstroPhobic
Originally by: Kregeo That fight was frapsed and put in the ma vid *link is in my sig*
That little beauty popped a rapier and a myrmidon before he went down - was a good fight
Alt spotted!
Its a character i use to scout, not flame on forums.
Originally by: Vanderie I really like this Harbinger set up, being Amarr/Gallente specced myself. It's got the DPS to drop anyone who gets too ****y, and the range (as was said earlier) to reach out and touch someone.
I recently splurged on a full LG slave set w/ hard-wirings, and good lord are they cheap (I think I paid 550m for my slave set and around 250m for the other implants ). It does take your standard t2 fit and elevate it to a whole new level.
Also, I will back up kessah. The average nano-curse will not be fitting a tracking disruptor (though I always do, as you probably remember when I killed your old harbinger with my old corp ; I think you made a post about it somewhere), and you will essentially rip through his shields like a hot knife through butter if he doesn't have one.
Good stuff kessah.
-V
That fight was frapsed and put in the ma vid *link is in my sig*
That little beauty popped a rapier and a myrmidon before he went down - was a good fight
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AstroPhobic
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:35:00 -
[37]
Originally by: kessah Its a character i use to scout, not flame on forums.
Kneejerk post. I'll trash it ma'am.
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Rajere
No Trademark Notoriety Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:35:00 -
[38]
Eh won't comment on the fit itself never flown one like this in low sec to know for sure, but I will say the damage isn't anything spectaculuar. the DPS and great deal of its tank comes from implants. The fit is pretty basic, uses slave set to generate the buffer, from there it's basic resists+DC+MAR setup, some cheap rigs to reproduce a 3rd Heatsink.
Not sure about the AB, you got scorch of course (which is *the* strong suite of the Harbinger, nothing to do with its fit), but it's still very slow even with the AB.
For the record, hurricane deals 1013 DPS with the same implant set and overheating, which it can do for roughly the same amount of time. Hurricane with my implants (5% med Projectile, 3% all turrets), does 860 before overheating. Similiar EHP (shield) without implants as the LG slave Harby. Of course again the real boon of the harby is range, and the ability to project its DPS effectively. The hurricane's redeeming value is it's speed, 2100m/s til nano nerf rolls around, allowing it to get on top of targets quickly and unleash Hail. Would choose the range option over mwding to targets any day of the week. How to Fail at Eve
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Kregeo
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:40:00 -
[39]
Edited by: Kregeo on 24/09/2008 23:40:04 i hate this alt.
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kessah
Suicidal Tendencies Ltd
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Posted - 2008.09.24 23:40:00 -
[40]
Originally by: Rajere Eh won't comment on the fit itself never flown one like this in low sec to know for sure, but I will say the damage isn't anything spectaculuar. the DPS and great deal of its tank comes from implants. The fit is pretty basic, uses slave set to generate the buffer, from there it's basic resists+DC+MAR setup, some cheap rigs to reproduce a 3rd Heatsink.
Not sure about the AB, you got scorch of course (which is *the* strong suite of the Harbinger, nothing to do with its fit), but it's still very slow even with the AB.
For the record, hurricane deals 1013 DPS with the same implant set and overheating, which it can do for roughly the same amount of time. Hurricane with my implants (5% med Projectile, 3% all turrets), does 860 before overheating. Similiar EHP (shield) without implants as the LG slave Harby. Of course again the real boon of the harby is range, and the ability to project its DPS effectively. The hurricane's redeeming value is it's speed, 2100m/s til nano nerf rolls around, allowing it to get on top of targets quickly and unleash Hail. Would choose the range option over mwding to targets any day of the week.
Thats with Hail- Hail is pretty fail atm, and its a Harbinger not a Hurricane. By that logic its like comparing the dps differences of the Nighthawk and the Prophecy.
Also i know the setup of that hurricane - i plugged it in with the similar setup of this harbinger. Its better, but its still a Hurricane and i didnt set out to post about that ship.
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drapo
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Posted - 2008.11.26 22:55:00 -
[41]
I really like reading this thread for some reason, so I thought I would bump it before it's closed.
I think it's interesting that people would find fault with a setup based on one hypothetical engagement. As someone who solos 75% of the time and spends a precious few fights in a gang, I know that it's impossible to fit for every fight you might encounter.
This ship has a place and a purpose and I think it is very effective at what it tries to do. The other thing that is clear is that kessah hones his fits from actual experience. There is no real way of knowing how much cap you need (for example) unless you are in a number of fights, with a number of setups.
I also wanted to post, because in light of the new patch I think this setup is even better. Possibly much, much better. And I agree with implants, and I like the term pod investment. Fly reasonable ship, but spend on your pod. I also like to have empty jump clones for 0.0 roams ending in death and podding. Anyway, my 2 pennies...
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2009.01.25 20:29:00 -
[42]
This thread should be in the sticky. As the above post says its even better now with QR. This is an important harbinger thread. |
loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:16:00 -
[43]
Originally by: kessah Edited by: kessah on 19/08/2008 15:22:34 Ive been asked to post my setup and i dont mind doing so now ive had my uses from it.
Been using it for over a year and has served me very well.
This is the best i can do with a harbinger with giving it a realistic use in pvp as 3 Heat sinks just do not work - I also use this in low sec to attack under sentries, so here goes:
Skills and implants i use:
Low Grade slave set - cheap 500m~ set 5% Medium laser dmg 5% all turret dmg / rof (im looking at pashans atm) 6% Ogdin Eye's Tracking
To achieve the dps/stats below these skills are needed
Level 5: Pulse Spec, Armour compensates, Battlecruiser, thermodynamics, & all related supporting skills including AWU 5. Level 4 Energy Weapon Rigging.
7x HP II / Conflag - You have a bonus, conflag is fine- Tracking is only an issue with cruisers > so use scorch, no cruiser is tanking you. 1x OL Module.
1x 10mn II Afterburner. 1x Faint Propulsion inhibitor 1x Fleeting Web 1x Small Cap Booster II w/200's - Cap lasts for 3mins 28 seconds with everything running, its not going to tank much, but it just needs some protection versus neuting and as long as its keeping your main tank alive *your guns* then this is enough.
1x MAR II 2x EANM II 1x DCU II 2x Heat Sink II
Drones:
Hammerheads II / Valk's, down to you.
Rigs:
1x Energy Burst Aerator 1x Energy Collision Accelerator
Stats:
845 dps (with pashans) 830 dps with 5%. With overload (lasts for 53seconds) 931 dps, *948 dps with pashans*
9.1k armour (more than many battleships base) After gang skills about 10k.
Resistances 75, 68, 63, 60, 52,150 EHP.
imho this is how the harbinger should be fit, slate all you want, but this is the cookie cutter. Once you have the implants the setups less than 20m.
The Harbinger has an unsually large base capacitor when your fully skilled and without a Microwarp drive you'll find you can easily downsize to a small cap booster and keep things running smooth.
A competant pilot with the above setup in a fight where he/she is ignored will be knocking the hostile targets ignorance with a sledge hammer, it boasts more DPS than most average battleship pilots, with the agility and buffer long enough to escape most gangs if you see it coming.
Enjoy.
That is a pretty mediocre setup, and 3 heat sinks DO work. The afterburner is a terrible idea, the small cap booster won't help you (well your lol tank will be dead already), and your implant set is ridiculously expensive (try 0.0, its hard mode but its way more fun).
You would be way better off with either of these:
(what I currently use) dcu II 3 heat sink II eanm II 1600 rt plate
10mn mwd (meta shouldn't matter) x5 web (should fit with weapon upgrades 5) faint warp disruptor medium cap booster II
7 focused medium pulse laser II offline remote armor rep
5 hammerhead II
NO RIGS -------------------------------
dcu II 3 heat sink II co-processor II pdu II
10mn mwd II 2 lse II warp disruptor II
7 heavy pulse laser II offline remote armor rep
5 hammerhead II
3 core defense field extenders
If you absolutely have to get a lgs set then at least plate whatever you are using. As far as tracking, don't set orbits. If it is a blaster or a/c ship then most likely you will kite it with scorch, if it is a rail, arty, missile, or laser ship, go up close with conflagration and manually lower transversal (orbit laser battleships, however).
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loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:21:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots.
Curses aren't pilgrims so they don't have to go inside of your turret range.
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Corwain
Gallente Dark Skullz Empire Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.01.26 00:26:00 -
[45]
This thread makes me cry again for the drone nerf that the Myrm went through and again reinforces that those who called it overpowered weren't fitting their racial BC properly.
The Hurri and the Drake can also do a silly amount of damage (between 700-1000dps) and the drake can even fit a very large buffer when doing so due to it being a shieldtanker. The extra bit of shield recharge doesn't hurt either. Great for shrugging off light and medium drones.
My poor poor Myrm. -- Distortion| Distortion 2 Preview |
Julius Romanus
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:05:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots.
So you won because the curse didnt fit a tracking disruptor? A stupid curse fit you realize. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 04:45:00 -
[47]
Originally by: loldongs III
Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots.
Curses aren't pilgrims so they don't have to go inside of your turret range.
They do if they want to put a point on you
o/ Kessah.
Only concern with the fit is that there's no MWD on it and that worries me, but I guess this fit is meant to be flown alongside BCs and BS as opposed to cruisers and frigs...
Still, have you ever regretted not having a MWD? I don't fly the harb much (prefer zealot) and I can recall a number of times where the MWD helped and very few where I would have rather had the AB... |
Ignition SemperFi
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.01.26 05:10:00 -
[48]
Edited by: Ignition SemperFi on 26/01/2009 05:10:20 with the prevelance of warp scrams... its makes the AB even more important nowadays.
Scorch gets you more than enough range.
People complaining about the implants realize that there arent bubbles in highsec/lowsec... and if you loose a pod in one of those areas its of no fault but your own. Between delayed lock time of the tackler, instapod warp, and 0 bubbles... pods are almost invulnerable.
So as a professional PVP'r(see: not professional alliance jockey/blob monkey) investing in implants is MORE than worth it. Heck even in 0.0 its worth it but your a hell of alot more likely to loose it.
Eve is a paper/rock/scissors combat arena. In almost every 1on1 in which people are going against a harbinger, they are not expecting to be facing 900dps and enough tank to stay alive past the majority of even "gank" bcs. Some people have faults with his fits... pls ask kessah to test tanks, im sure he would be more than willing to give it a go.
o/ kessah |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 05:15:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Ignition SemperFi with the prevelance of warp scrams... its makes the AB even more important nowadays.
Scorch gets you more than enough range.
You need the MWD to stay out of their range, not to get into yours . I tend to think that you try to avoid getting close enough to get scrammed anyway. Well, that's how I've always used laser boats. YMMV. |
loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.26 07:01:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: loldongs III
Originally by: Tharon for a little backup to kessah... A curse will be long down before your cap is gone with such a fitting. Done it myself with a similar setup,even when i prefer a 3 HS one. Do you have any idea how long it takes for the curse to neut you? If its really worse 2 cycles. Mostly 3. That means at least 24 seconds for you. He never survives that long if he has no tracking disruptor or other fancy e-war. And did you got by any chance the point he got a small injector? after a empty cap you use the injector and can fire for at least another 2 shots.
Curses aren't pilgrims so they don't have to go inside of your turret range.
They do if they want to put a point on you
o/ Kessah.
Only concern with the fit is that there's no MWD on it and that worries me, but I guess this fit is meant to be flown alongside BCs and BS as opposed to cruisers and frigs...
Still, have you ever regretted not having a MWD? I don't fly the harb much (prefer zealot) and I can recall a number of times where the MWD helped and very few where I would have rather had the AB...
You can't warp if your cap is too low and besides, by the time you're are capped out you will not have destroyed the curse.
Quote: with the prevelance of warp scrams... its makes the AB even more important nowadays.
You are a harbinger not an assault frigate. You lower transversal and you stay out of range with the mwd.
Quote: People complaining about the implants realize that there arent bubbles in highsec/lowsec... and if you loose a pod in one of those areas its of no fault but your own. Between delayed lock time of the tackler, instapod warp, and 0 bubbles... pods are almost invulnerable.
That's cool I guess, but station games in low sec aren't my idea of fun so I go to 0.0. I also buy implants and I rarely lose them. |
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Atius Tirawa
Minmatar Destructive Influence Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.01.26 08:14:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Atius Tirawa on 26/01/2009 08:14:20 It works in gangs. . .but not really for solo play - and same here, I would drop the eamn for a HS. Scorch is god, conflag is meh. -----------
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Amelia Reign
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:29:00 -
[52]
mwd on Harbinger = fail. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:38:00 -
[53]
Originally by: Amelia Reign mwd on Harbinger = fail.
Do tell. I'm trying to fit a harb, and putting a MWD + a rack of HPL II is damb hard, even with AWU V.
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Tzar'rim
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Posted - 2009.01.26 11:46:00 -
[54]
The single MAR/no plate looks flimsy to me but then I never was a fan of gank setups. Going to crosstrain to amarr real soon (got BC 5, gonna be fun) so might give it a try :)
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Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.01.26 12:58:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Amelia Reign mwd on Harbinger = fail.
Do tell. I'm trying to fit a harb, and putting a MWD + a rack of HPL II is damb hard, even with AWU V.
It's generally not due to fitting, but due to the utter MWD cripple that happens. The Harb caps out on just running guns easily with an MWD :/
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Malcanis
R.E.C.O.N.
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:21:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Ancy Denaries
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Amelia Reign mwd on Harbinger = fail.
Do tell. I'm trying to fit a harb, and putting a MWD + a rack of HPL II is damb hard, even with AWU V.
It's generally not due to fitting, but due to the utter MWD cripple that happens. The Harb caps out on just running guns easily with an MWD :/
Mmm with 7x HPL II and a named MWD, I get 3 mins 6 seconds or something, with everything running, thanks to the medium cap booster II/400
Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit tho |
Ancy Denaries
Caldari Solaris Operations
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:39:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Malcanis Mmm with 7x HPL II and a named MWD, I get 3 mins 6 seconds or something, with everything running, thanks to the medium cap booster II/400
Needs a +3% CPU implant to fit tho
That's actually quite decent. Sorry bout the implant though :/ 3 min is probably less time than the actual engagement will be in a gankfit. Either your target is dead by then, or you are.
Balance is important, but you will always adapt to changing circumstances and you don't whine about stuff you can't change. |
Terianna Eri
Amarr Scrutari
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Posted - 2009.01.26 13:58:00 -
[58]
Originally by: loldongs III You can't warp if your cap is too low and besides, by the time you're are capped out you will not have destroyed the curse.
If you're not warp scrambled you can always warp. You might not get very far, but even a short warp is several hundred KM... __________________________________
Originally by: Arthur Frayn How much to ruin all your holes, luv?
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Poast Warrior
Amarr Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2009.01.26 14:04:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Amelia Reign AB on Harbinger = fail.
Fixed that for ya.
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loldongs III
loldongs industries
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Posted - 2009.01.26 21:32:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Terianna Eri
Originally by: loldongs III You can't warp if your cap is too low and besides, by the time you're are capped out you will not have destroyed the curse.
If you're not warp scrambled you can always warp. You might not get very far, but even a short warp is several hundred KM...
No if your cap is low enough you can't warp at all. Even then a curse will have no problem surviving long enough to neut you down unless it has nos only or only 1 neut or something.
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