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What if CCP removed mission scanning - and moved all lvl 4s o low sec?

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Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:49:00 - [31] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Ghoest Youre a newb I guess and werent around back before new scanning. I used to run all my level 4s in Amamake before the change. It was probably the busiest low sec mission hub. I never once was scanned out. It may have been possible but the odds were so long against it that essentially no one bothered. Gate and station camps were the only legit concerns. I was around back then. I know it was possible. I know it happened. And your point? It almost never happened so wasnt important. And it didnt bother most players. In the current situation if you spent a day running lvl 4 missions in Amamake it would be suicide. Get a clue. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.24 11:51:00 - [32] Originally by: Steve Hawkings Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Steve Hawkings Why would moving them not be profitable for the majority of players ? please explain this crap you write. Because ship loss for most mission runners would cost more than they could make off of mission. Its almost ironic that you named your self after a smart guy isnt it? stfu with the personal abuse, this just proves that your idea is crap. Why does evey noob that cant fly assume he is going to loose his ship in low sec ?? ive been there for months and not lost anything, seriously its time that rubbish players like yourself actually learnt how to play the game instead of sitting touching yourself in high sec. LOLz at emo boi and his "personal abuse" - especially with regards to all the stuff he has said. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
spud maur Gallente IBF2	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:06:00 - [33] why do so many ppl want lvl4 moved to low sec it makes no sence to me even more so for us "carebares" than dont do low sec For the fear of that gate camp where u will loose ur Prise ship! which is unfair on the poor guy which this happens to when he dont Do/know how to PvP.. why cant we just have lvl4s in low sec too as with high sec ..
Shadow Sapphire	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Steve Hawkings Why would moving them not be profitable for the majority of players ? please explain this crap you write. Simple having their ships shredded by void megas it's not fun for anyone . The only fun in low sex are gemes like this : "Guess if there's a gate camp next door?" and "Who will i pwn tonight ?" - my favorite
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Ghoest And your point? It almost never happened so wasnt important. And it didnt bother most players. In the current situation if you spent a day running lvl 4 missions in Amamake it would be suicide. Get a clue. It never happened to you. That doesn't mean it didn't happen to other people. I'd urge you to look at the world around you and realise there are people out there that aren't you before you ask someone to get a clue.
C4LYP50 HeXstoof	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:23:00 - [36] Originally by: Steve Hawkings stfu with the personal abuse, this just proves that your idea is crap. Why does evey noob that cant fly assume he is going to loose his ship in low sec ?? ive been there for months and not lost anything, seriously its time that rubbish players like yourself actually learnt how to play the game instead of sitting touching yourself in high sec. Funny stuff! WTG on personally assassinating your own credibility! THIS is why we all read these forums. HAHA! Brunette By Birth...............Blonde By Nature. ------------------------------------------------- "Your shrieks of agony are Divine" "No tears, please; it's a waste of good suffering" - PinH
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:49:00 - [37] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Ghoest And your point? It almost never happened so wasnt important. And it didnt bother most players. In the current situation if you spent a day running lvl 4 missions in Amamake it would be suicide. Get a clue. It never happened to you. That doesn't mean it didn't happen to other people. I'd urge you to look at the world around you and realise there are people out there that aren't you before you ask someone to get a clue. It was extemly uncommon. Now it is extremly common. Maybe the signifigance of that is lost on you(as simple an obvious as it is.) The difference isnt lost on people who run levels with the profound idea of making a profit, though. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.24 12:53:00 - [38] Edited by: Maximillian Bayonette on 24/08/2008 12:58:03 Originally by: Ghoest It was extemly uncommon. Now it is extremly common. Maybe the signifigance of that is lost on you(as simple an obvious as it is.) The difference isnt lost on people who run levels with the profound idea of making a profit, though. It wasn't extremely uncommon. It just wasn't as common as it is today. Disregarding all that, I actually agree with you. Scanning down people is too easy, and we should go back to the way it used to be. Back then, probing someone down took skill. Now it just takes patience. Back then you could find someone in a minute but it was extremely difficult. Now you might take half an hour or more, but you will always succeed as long as you have time to wait. It's a no brainer system, and it's not good enough for Eve. However, if we did go back to the old ways of probing, something would have to be done about exploration. I think all of this requires its own thread tho. Edit: Just noticed your sig, which explains quite a lot about you. I thought I'd comment on it. Why not call things what they are? In Eve there are no guilds or clans. There are corps. It's not a question of corps being better. It's just what they are called. I don't call the Caldari race Nightelves, because they aren't called that. They are called Caldari.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.24 13:40:00 - [39] I have no problem with "corp" but it means very little. So its quite silly when people make a big deal about it. I play and have played many MMOs - ussually with the same people. Guilds, Clans, Outfits, Societies and Corps - it doesnt matter if I accidentally use the wrong term in a given game - the people are the same. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.24 15:45:00 - [40] why cant people like the OP understand not everyone wants to play PVP PVE is just as fun if tahts what you are paying for, most PVE players do not have the skills for PVP so why would they even want to go into low sec amount of idiots playing eve is amazing, i much prefered eve back in 06 when a raven was a fantastic thing to get
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.24 15:52:00 - [41] Originally by: quickshot89 why cant people like the OP understand not everyone wants to play PVP PVE is just as fun if tahts what you are paying for, most PVE players do not have the skills for PVP so why would they even want to go into low sec amount of idiots playing eve is amazing, i much prefered eve back in 06 when a raven was a fantastic thing to get Why can't people like you understand that Eve isn't divided into PvP and PvE. It's an integrated system and you CANNOT OPT OUT OF PVP. What we're talking about here is balance. You don't care about balance. You just want to play this MMO as a single player game. Now, are we going to have outbursts like this on every friggin page? People, read the god damned thread!
Ogul Caldari ZiTek Deepspace Explorations United Front Alliance	Posted - 2008.08.24 15:53:00 - [42] Originally by: Le Skunk Lv4 Mission *****s dont want a challange. They dont want a harad mission. Hence why they are sat in empire in NO RISK and HIGH REWARD profession. NERF LEVEL 4 MISSIONS CCP BALANCE SKUNK Now if we brought back your old Privateer Alliance, would you stop spouting this kind of bullcrap? (Might be worth it, in that case...) --- Don't put your trust in revolutions. They always come around again. That's why they're called revolutions. People die, and nothing changes.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.24 15:59:00 - [43] Originally by: quickshot89 why cant people like the OP understand not everyone wants to play PVP PVE is just as fun if tahts what you are paying for, most PVE players do not have the skills for PVP so why would they even want to go into low sec amount of idiots playing eve is amazing, i much prefered eve back in 06 when a raven was a fantastic thing to get Why can't people like this poster understand that PvP is involved in every single aspect of EvE? Sure, you can avoid PvP ... to a degree. You can avoid going out of hisec, so that if crime happens to you, the criminal actually pays for his crime. And you can avoid war decs, by hiding in a beginner corp with a bunch of new players. And you can avoid ever buying anything off the market, or selling any loot. And you can avoid ever producing anything. Or mining an asteroid, which someone else may have depended on mining that day. But PvP can still be FORCED on you, because of the mechanics of the game. Wouldn't it be wiser to accept that PvP is everywhere, and prepare yourself? Sure, I avoid PvP. But I ain't pretending that PvP can't happen anywhere, at any time. At most, I've either always got a cloak in a hislot (yes, even in hisec), or I'm making sure I'm at the keys whenever I'm not docked. Amount of players willing to lie to themselves is amazing. Just opening your eyes, you'll see crime and PvP and honest fights all around you, in every part of the galaxy. PvE all you want. But don't pretend that you can live in EvE and never, ever PvP. You might get lucky, and if your smart it is even easy, but that 'smarts' requires you to at least recognize the truth of the world in which we play. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Doddy Omega Fleet Enterprises Executive Outcomes	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:01:00 - [44] Originally by: Ruze A) I don't think it's realistic to remove the ability to scan players who are in missions. Reason is, all it would require is someone to keep a level 1 mission active in their system, and bam ... automatic safe spot that is untouchable. Being someone who used the old super safe spots to beat the OLD scan system, I know it's not right. B) I used to mission alot in losec. It was fun, no doubt. Being found out by pirates wasn't a real worry, but now, it seems much more prevalent. C) Maybe losec missions need a bigger adjustment. Make them a flavor of their own, especially allowing for PvP fits to be much more useful. The time spent in a mission is one weakness, but the players setup is another. And I think it's a larger one. If losec missions were a different type altogether, more small-group, always moving type ... it might be a bigger, more effective change. You dnt need to make it impossible to scan missions, just harder.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:08:00 - [45] Originally by: Doddy You dnt need to make it impossible to scan missions, just harder. It's hardly easy in it's current state. Making it any harder than it is ATM would basically kill mission scanning altogether. End of the day so long as it's happening people will demand it be harder until it dosen't happen anymore (because it's impossible) - Infectious -
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Doddy Originally by: Ruze A) I don't think it's realistic to remove the ability to scan players who are in missions. Reason is, all it would require is someone to keep a level 1 mission active in their system, and bam ... automatic safe spot that is untouchable. Being someone who used the old super safe spots to beat the OLD scan system, I know it's not right. B) I used to mission alot in losec. It was fun, no doubt. Being found out by pirates wasn't a real worry, but now, it seems much more prevalent. C) Maybe losec missions need a bigger adjustment. Make them a flavor of their own, especially allowing for PvP fits to be much more useful. The time spent in a mission is one weakness, but the players setup is another. And I think it's a larger one. If losec missions were a different type altogether, more small-group, always moving type ... it might be a bigger, more effective change. You dnt need to make it impossible to scan missions, just harder. Oh, I know I'd be happy if it was harder for someone else to find me. And I'm sure it would increase the number of mission runners (especially after Ambulation comes out, and station camping becomes uber boring). But I don't know enough about scanning to really argue about whether it's currently balanced or not. I've never had someone scan me out, that's for sure. And in my one practice with the new scan system, I didn't find a damn thing. But I never had anyone scan my out in the old system, either. And I DID know how to find stuff with it. I'm more of an on-board scanner old-timer. I can find all kinds of sht with that scanner, a few pre-made off-the-grid safe spots, and using the good old 'drop-the-bookmark-mid-warp' technique. Ahh. bookmarks are something that older players have over newer players. They don't have to map their own insta's, or create cross-over safe spots. So much can still be done with these. I just moved to a new system, and I've been mapping off-grid and insta warps all day. Nothing like good ol' fashioned know how. Course, that doesn't relate at all to the op, but eh ... Quote:* If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
quickshot89 Caldari	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:15:00 - [47] i never said Eve is just about either PvP or PvE, i said most players in high sec pay to do the PvE side of things, as they dont have the skills to even do PvP, we all know missiles suck for PvP, which most players in caldari space have, as missiles are perfect for missions, and are easy to train for, along with shipos such as the drake and raven i myself play Eve for its storyline and the tons of information i can ead for days on end when i am ready for PvP i can go train up for it, but, i like doing missions as i find them FUN, which is what i am paying for, and its how i play eve, not how other people play eve and complain that there are no targets in low sec
Banana Torres Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:18:00 - [48] Originally by: Ruze Why can't people like this poster understand that PvP is involved in every single aspect of EvE? Yes, but if matters not one jot to this discussion if Ruze the uber losec PvPer decides to undercut the price of Blow-up Rubber Dollies in Iges. It is obvious from the content of this thread that the PvP being discussed is that which is known as pew-pew. I am sure high sec mission runners take part in market PvP a lot. But most of them will never take part in pew-pew.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:26:00 - [49] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Doddy You dnt need to make it impossible to scan missions, just harder. It's hardly easy in it's current state. Making it any harder than it is ATM would basically kill mission scanning altogether. End of the day so long as it's happening people will demand it be harder until it dosen't happen anymore (because it's impossible) Don't confuse hard with time consuming. Mission probing is time consuming, but it's not hard. Before the change, mission probing wasn't necessarily time consuming, but boy was it hard. That's what I would like to get back to. Note: I say this as a mission runner AND as a mission prober.
DigitalCommunist Obsidian Core	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:31:00 - [50] Before you could scan missions, it was effectively instanced PVE. It was also the worst change EVE has undergone in five years of retail. Your idea is not only against basic EVE tenets that all areas of the game be subject to player interaction, but has been proven disastrous. Please don't post your shoddy ideas, until you learn the basics of the game you're playing.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:31:00 - [51] Originally by: Banana Torres Originally by: Ruze Why can't people like this poster understand that PvP is involved in every single aspect of EvE? Yes, but if matters not one jot to this discussion if Ruze the uber losec PvPer decides to undercut the price of Blow-up Rubber Dollies in Iges. It is obvious from the content of this thread that the PvP being discussed is that which is known as pew-pew. I am sure high sec mission runners take part in market PvP a lot. But most of them will never take part in pew-pew. I think we're both just assuming what the hisec playerbase is made up of, is all. I assume that the majority of the hisec mission runners are nulsec and losec alts who use hisec missioning to fund their losses and to further invalidate the nature of living in losec or nulsec. I assume that they have come to the same conclusion that I have, that it's simply smarter for me to do hisec missions, which pay slightly less than nulsec ratting, while not requiring me to work my arse off to arrange for ammo, extra ships, hiding, working with neighborhood corpies, etc, etc. Eh, if it wasn't profitable as hell and very EFFICIENT to do hisec missions, I'd probably live in losec more often. Fact is, I LIKE doing missions. That's my preferred profession. But fact is, I can't kill a pirate, without him 'respawning' in two hours, because his alt ramps up hisec missions all the time. Sure, I could (and do) do the same thing as that pirate, but the logic of that makes me think 'imbalanced'. If your only hope of competing with someone is to assume thier tactics (in example, only way to beat a nano is to fly a nano), the tactic is unbalanced. That's just my way of looking at the situation. There's a hundred other semi-related issues that cross over with this, but if I start throwing those around, it'll only further confuse the issue. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Maximillian Bayonette White Lion Manufacture and Salvage	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:32:00 - [52] Originally by: quickshot89 we all know missiles suck for PvP, which most players in caldari space have, as missiles are perfect for missions, and are easy to train for, along with shipos such as the drake and raven You don't have to say you aren't skilled for PvP. This statement proves it. I'm talking RL skills here though. Perhaps you don't remember, but a year ago (or thereabouts) there was a boost to torpedoes. These torpedoes are now among the most powerful weapons in the game. A gank-fitted torpedo raven can out dps a gank megathron, and that's saying something. No, missiles don't suck for pvp. Some players using missiles do. Originally by: quickshot89 i myself play Eve for its storyline and the tons of information i can ead for days on end when i am ready for PvP i can go train up for it, but, i like doing missions as i find them FUN, which is what i am paying for, and its how i play eve, not how other people play eve and complain that there are no targets in low sec So, if we nerf high sec missions you can still have your fun and dream about the day when you reach 60mil SPs and you are finally skilled enough for some PvP. Why does it matter what missions pay if you do them for fun? Note that I'm speaking of nerfing mission rewards in high sec as opposed to moving them all to low sec.
Ghoest	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:43:00 - [53] Originally by: Ruze I assume that the majority of the hisec mission runners are nulsec and losec alts who use hisec missioning to fund their losses and to further invalidate the nature of living in losec or nulsec. I That is a mistake. If you think corp is different than a guild or clan you have some insecurity issues.
Ruze Amarr No Applicable Corporation	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:47:00 - [54] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Ruze I assume that the majority of the hisec mission runners are nulsec and losec alts who use hisec missioning to fund their losses and to further invalidate the nature of living in losec or nulsec. I That is a mistake. Seems that my assumptions are just as valid as anyone elses. Especially considered I've actually talked and asked around, that kind of thing. It ain't a 'proof' or a 'fact', but at least I'm willing to admit it's an assumption. Especially considering that I can use my own self as an example (as I fund one FW alts and various other alts from hisec missions). Maybe it's a mistake that I said 'i assume'. If i would have just presented it as fact, I'm sure a couple of ignorant individuals would have believed me. But personally, I see very few facts presented, and a whole helluva lot of opinions being argued on. 'This is a mistake' being the latest opinion I am personally arguing. Quote: If you like playing EvE, but don't like to PvP ... Maybe it's time you recognize that you don't really like to play EvE.
Drunk Driver Gallente	Posted - 2008.08.24 16:51:00 - [55] NERF LEVEL 4 MISSIONS SO PEOPLE WILL FLY INTO LOW SEC TO BE GANKED! Hurry, the pirates are sad! .
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.08.24 17:19:00 - [56] Originally by: Maximillian Bayonette Originally by: Rawr Cristina Originally by: Doddy You dnt need to make it impossible to scan missions, just harder. It's hardly easy in it's current state. Making it any harder than it is ATM would basically kill mission scanning altogether. End of the day so long as it's happening people will demand it be harder until it dosen't happen anymore (because it's impossible) Don't confuse hard with time consuming. Mission probing is time consuming, but it's not hard. Before the change, mission probing wasn't necessarily time consuming, but boy was it hard. That's what I would like to get back to. Note: I say this as a mission runner AND as a mission prober. It's hard because it's time-consuming. By the time you've scanned out a lot of missions, it's too late. I would happily go back to the old probing system; having to triangulate rather than drop probe/wait/repeat. Having to put more effort into scanning but for the ability to find missions faster I would be 100% in favour of. - Infectious -
Brigsby5987 Caldari 32nd Amarrian Imperial Navy Regiment.	Posted - 2008.08.24 17:22:00 - [57] Originally by: Zeerover No people would just do the lvl 5's already in place then... There is a reason why the 60000lp lvl 5 missions aren't drawing the crowds to low-sec and everyone who whines about wanting to move lvl4s there is missing the point... do they really have 60,000 lp? well if i didnt have to worry about getting my carrier ganked id do them! /game set and match __________________________________________ When Will I be able to post again ? 13 days, 23 hours, 55 minutes, 36 seconds
Chris Sharp	Posted - 2008.08.24 17:43:00 - [58] Well... If missions itself were different in lowsec. No swarms of crapships but instead few tougher ones that pay well and could be done in pvp-setups it actually WOULD be something to do. I would do it. But I cannot run regular missions in pvp-setups. There is NO WAY IN HELL to be running any kind of mission as they are right now in anything I as a pvp-nooblette would consider "maybe I would fight someone in the same ship"-kind of setup. Only my "not a chance in pvp"-setup would cost about 4 times the isk a pvp one would. So, yah, leave the scanning in place and create "low sec" missions. New ones or adapted old ones. Right now mission running in <0.5 is flying victim-boats not battleships.
Shadowsword COLSUP Tau Ceti Federation	Posted - 2008.08.24 17:51:00 - [59] Edited by: Shadowsword on 24/08/2008 17:51:25 Originally by: Le Skunk Originally by: Schalac ]I would say the main reason is because those missions are actually harder than level 4. Lv4 Mission *****s dont want a challange. They dont want a harad mission. Hence why they are sat in empire in NO RISK and HIGH REWARD profession. NERF LEVEL 4 MISSIONS CCP BALANCE SKUNK You know, you're whining so much about lv4 missions that you now look downright hysteric about it... Keep a reasonable tone if you wish to keep some credibility. I ran missions in low-sec for nearly a year (pirate numbers were lower back then). So don't try telling me I'm afraid of some risk. But now, after losing one BS too many in a gate camp, I do them in high-sec. I did what smart people do, I adapted. The thing is, the pirates like to hang out in the mission-runner hubs, which make the probability of a gate camp just about as high as in a low-sec-high-sec chokepoint. No amount of increased rewards is going to make it profitable to hang out in those spots, unless it's high enough to completely unbalance low-sec income compared to nul-sec. The ONE thing that will make me consider living in low-sec is if CCP do what must be done to drastically reduce the number of pirates, so the risk of a gate-camp become acceptable once again. ------------------------------------------

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