Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Lady Miranga
Relentless Influence
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 09:10:00 -
[1] - Quote
placeholder for tears here.
What do you think is going to change? |
Vito Antonio
State War Academy Caldari State
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 10:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
EVERYTHING |
lanyaie
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 11:15:00 -
[3] - Quote
oh great CCP just when i feel like switching to try out the tengu its nerf tIME I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
85
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 13:10:00 -
[4] - Quote
Im guessing tengu to the ground and loki to be boosted to high heavens !
Afterall minmatars have race-right to be the best and they have been totally underpowered compared lolcaldari in this aspect. |
God's Apples
Space Boats 'N Hoes
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 18:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
All t3 ships annoy me. The tengu isn't OP. Turns out, when you put 3 bill in most ships you get something really awesome out of it. I've killed plenty of buffer and active (not just t2 fit) tengus solo with my nano cane. Any gang that is getting solo'd by a tengu is ******** and has a fail composition of ships.
"But I thought if we just had more drakes and canes we could kill everything because we have such leet dps, right?" |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 18:59:00 -
[6] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:All t3 ships annoy me. The tengu isn't OP. Turns out, when you put 3 bill in most ships you get something really awesome out of it. I've killed plenty of buffer and active (not just t2 fit) tengus solo with my nano cane. Any gang that is getting solo'd by a tengu is ******** and has a fail composition of ships.
"But I thought if we just had more drakes and canes we could kill everything because we have such leet dps, right?"
So, if I poured 3 billion into an omen, I'd get something awesome? No? What about a navy omen? Better, but it'll still diaf..what about an ashimmu? Hmm, still no. Go figure. |
zariae
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 19:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Where did they say something was changing? |
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 19:16:00 -
[8] - Quote
Also, God's do you have a KM link if you soloing a faction/deadspace fit tengu? Battleclinic doesn't have you listed as killing any. At all. But hey, it IS battleclinic after all. So, benefit of the doubt, provide said linky? |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
903
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 19:26:00 -
[9] - Quote
Artemis Ahab wrote:Also, God's do you have a KM link if you soloing a faction/deadspace fit tengu? Battleclinic doesn't have you listed as killing any. At all. But hey, it IS battleclinic after all. So, benefit of the doubt, provide said linky?
Put 3B in a Proteus and try it to in null.
Great, now you can ambush with a 3B Proteus, defenceless ships, and lazy AFK ones. ho w8
So, what is your mega nerf on the road that made you jizzle this stupid thread? |
M1k3y Koontz
Taxes Suck Inc.
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 20:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
DEATH TO THOSE 100MN AB 2x T2 ANCILARY RIGGED GODAWFUL TENGUS
What it really needs is a decent subsystem that goes with MWD's
How much herp could a herp derp derp if a herp derp could herp derp. |
|
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
903
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 20:45:00 -
[11] - Quote
M1k3y Koontz wrote:DEATH TO THOSE 100MN AB 2x T2 ANCILARY RIGGED GODAWFUL TENGUS
What it really needs is a decent subsystem that goes with MWD's
Now this is a reasonable guy.
100MN AB -problem when you can fit an oversized module in whatever hull = this is the core of the problem, not the ship.
T2 rigs -not a problem.
Well, 100mn lokis, 100mn legions are also overpowered then. Nerf them devs, nerf them.... ?
|
Derth Ramir
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
15
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 21:51:00 -
[12] - Quote
The problem is not the 100mn tech 3s, the problem is when these ships are paired up with tech 3 links giving the illusion that they have overpowered active tanks with ungodly speeds. Try using a 100mn tech 3 without links and see how it turns out. |
Jame Jarl Retief
Corps Diplomatique Terrestrienne
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.24 22:18:00 -
[13] - Quote
Did they say anything specifically, as in "we are going to nerf Tengu"? Or is this because of the promised ship rebalancing and tiericide? Personally I'd prefer it if they buffed other T3s to be in line with Tengu. |
Jack Miton
Lapse Of Sanity Exhale.
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 00:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Did they say anything specifically, as in "we are going to nerf Tengu"? Or is this because of the promised ship rebalancing and tiericide? Personally I'd prefer it if they buffed other T3s to be in line with Tengu.
yes, please buff my proteus and loki, they are clearly not good enough at the moment....
in all seriousness, only T3 that need balancing, with a buff, is the legion. |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders Flatline.
54
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 01:07:00 -
[15] - Quote
Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? |
God's Apples
Space Boats 'N Hoes
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 01:41:00 -
[16] - Quote
Artemis Ahab wrote:Also, God's do you have a KM link if you soloing a faction/deadspace fit tengu? Battleclinic doesn't have you listed as killing any. At all. But hey, it IS battleclinic after all. So, benefit of the doubt, provide said linky?
I had to remove the photon and invul because the KB won't take it.
http://test.true-sansha.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=82124 Not 100mn, still spensive. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
353
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 03:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
That's really not what we had in mind.
Also: lol test server. |
Vladimir Norkoff
Income Redistribution Service
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 03:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Derth Ramir wrote:The problem is not the 100mn tech 3s, the problem is when these ships are paired up with tech 3 links giving the illusion that they have overpowered active tanks with ungodly speeds. Try using a 100mn tech 3 without links and see how it turns out. Purty much this. I'm flying around in a 100mn AB Tengu at the moment with no links. About as manueverable as a school bus. Can get some nice speed, eventually... but with out the mindlinks to boost agility, plus the extra speed, the extended point range, and shield bonuses it's not THAT great.
That being said, it will still be nerfed. Why? Cuz I'm using one. Anything I use gets nerfed eventually. NOS - Nerfbat Homerun! Drones - Bandwidth/Scoop nerf RSDs - Script nerf Recons - Speed/ECM nerf Deep Space Probes - Nerfbat Homerun! Corp Recruitment in Space - Exploit! (only took once for that one to get nailed) War Decs - DecShield okay'd Can-Flipping - Proposed Crimewatch nerf Tengu - .....?
|
Artemis Ahab
Caldari Provisions Caldari State
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 04:03:00 -
[19] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:Artemis Ahab wrote:Also, God's do you have a KM link if you soloing a faction/deadspace fit tengu? Battleclinic doesn't have you listed as killing any. At all. But hey, it IS battleclinic after all. So, benefit of the doubt, provide said linky? I had to remove the photon and invul because the KB won't take it. http://test.true-sansha.com/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=82124 Not 100mn, still spensive.
Ok, manually posted one minute before you linked it. Have an API verified one?
Edit:: Wait, that's on the test server. How about one from the ACTUAL game. |
Plus 1
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 04:07:00 -
[20] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Derth Ramir wrote:The problem is not the 100mn tech 3s, the problem is when these ships are paired up with tech 3 links giving the illusion that they have overpowered active tanks with ungodly speeds. Try using a 100mn tech 3 without links and see how it turns out. Purty much this. I'm flying around in a 100mn AB Tengu at the moment with no links. About as manueverable as a school bus. Can get some nice speed, eventually... but with out the mindlinks to boost agility, plus the extra speed, the extended point range, and shield bonuses it's not THAT great. That being said, it will still be nerfed. Why? Cuz I'm using one. Anything I use gets nerfed eventually. NOS - Nerfbat Homerun! Drones - Bandwidth/Scoop nerf RSDs - Script nerf Recons - Speed/ECM nerf Deep Space Probes - Nerfbat Homerun! Corp Recruitment in Space - Exploit! (only took once for that one to get nailed)War Decs - DecShield okay'd Can-Flipping - Proposed Crimewatch nerf Tengu - .....? EVE hates you. |
|
OfBalance
Caldari State
237
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 04:11:00 -
[21] - Quote
I welcome any and all nerfs. New fotm, best fotm. |
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
158
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 06:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf?
There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
28
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 14:16:00 -
[23] - Quote
Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus?
Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb)
I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
917
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 14:42:00 -
[24] - Quote
Jack Miton wrote:Jame Jarl Retief wrote:Did they say anything specifically, as in "we are going to nerf Tengu"? Or is this because of the promised ship rebalancing and tiericide? Personally I'd prefer it if they buffed other T3s to be in line with Tengu. yes, please buff my proteus and loki, they are clearly not good enough at the moment.... in all seriousness, only T3 that need balancing, with a buff, is the legion.
Really? -Because you can make a hell of a 250's good Proteus fit? Do something else than heavy tackle with a stupid amount of EHP or a stupid amount of dps but never a bit of eatch? Or is the uber drone sub that makes you think that?
No, No don't answer please I already know the answer, you don't need speed/agility and shoot over 60km with a Proteus at gates and undocks, yes I know that.
|
Pheusia
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 16:13:00 -
[25] - Quote
Vladimir Norkoff wrote:Derth Ramir wrote:The problem is not the 100mn tech 3s, the problem is when these ships are paired up with tech 3 links giving the illusion that they have overpowered active tanks with ungodly speeds. Try using a 100mn tech 3 without links and see how it turns out. Purty much this. I'm flying around in a 100mn AB Tengu at the moment with no links. About as manueverable as a school bus. Can get some nice speed, eventually... but with out the mindlinks to boost agility, plus the extra speed, the extended point range, and shield bonuses it's not THAT great. That being said, it will still be nerfed. Why? Cuz I'm using one. Anything I use gets nerfed eventually. NOS - Nerfbat Homerun! Drones - Bandwidth/Scoop nerf RSDs - Script nerf Recons - Speed/ECM nerf Deep Space Probes - Nerfbat Homerun! Corp Recruitment in Space - Exploit! (only took once for that one to get nailed)War Decs - DecShield okay'd Can-Flipping - Proposed Crimewatch nerf Tengu - .....?
NOS is finally getting rebuffed, so please do not use it
thank you |
zariae
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 16:54:00 -
[26] - Quote
Pheusia wrote:
NOS is finally getting rebuffed, so please do not use it
thank you
Say waaaa?
|
Ines Tegator
Towels R Us
159
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 21:48:00 -
[27] - Quote
Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote: There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds.
Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line.
Are you sure you didn't quote the wrong post? Cause I didn't say anything like that... |
Crellion
Parental Control HELL4S
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 14:16:00 -
[28] - Quote
zariae wrote:Pheusia wrote:
NOS is finally getting rebuffed, so please do not use it
thank you
Say waaaa?
Who when what where how? |
Astroniomix
EliteTroll
16
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 14:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. You'll notice she was quoting (or pointing out) what the devs said in the keynote presentation. But then again, reading comprehension is restricted to people who are at least 12. |
Alyssa VonDeadAir
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 18:07:00 -
[30] - Quote
Save the tengu, loki, and proteus!
Buff the legion!
God this character is ugly! |
|
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
704
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:10:00 -
[31] - Quote
Change its bonuses to HAMs only. Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Fredfredbug4
Kings of Kill EVE Animal Control
137
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 20:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
If the Tengu gets nerfed, CCP will handle it the way they handle most nerfs.
The Tengu will be nearly unusable and everyone will start flying Lokis.
Then the Loki's will be nerfed and everyone will start flying Proteuses |
Petrus Blackshell
Rifterlings
704
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 21:41:00 -
[33] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:Proteuses *Protei Rifterlings - Small gang lowsec combat corp specializing in frigates and cruisers (all races, not just Rifters!). US Timezone veterans and newbies alike are welcome to join. Come chat in the "we fly rifters" in-game channel. Free fitted frigates for members! |
Tsai Ashitaka
Aether Ventures Surely You're Joking
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 22:38:00 -
[34] - Quote
Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line.
Yes, because we need caldari ships that are worse than the eagle and cerberus. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
372
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 03:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
Cerb isn't bad. |
Sinigr Shadowsong
Imperial Guardians The Aurora Shadow
2
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 07:16:00 -
[36] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:If the Tengu gets nerfed, CCP will handle it the way they handle most nerfs.
The Tengu will be nearly unusable and everyone will start flying Lokis.
Then the Loki's will be nerfed and everyone will start flying Proteuses They will never nerf Loki, it's brown afterall. |
Meditril
T.R.I.A.D Defiant Legacy
55
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 08:50:00 -
[37] - Quote
I really do not see what's the problem with Tengu's. I see them dieing on regular basis even if they are pimped to hell. They are really fun to catch and they really motivate everyone to get on the kill mail. So usually it is really no problem to simply and slowly blob them once you have the first point on it. |
Angsty Teenager
Sinister Elite Black Legion.
49
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 19:48:00 -
[38] - Quote
It doesn't really make sense for them to want T3's to be in between navy cruisers and T2 in terms of ability. A number of T2 cruisers are nigh completely useless, (see Cerberus/Eagle) and others cost ineffective because a battlecruiser can do their job better (Sacrilege). They just aren't used at all really
Unless they want to make T3's a useless ship class, they need to look into rebalancing T2 ships first. And then, even after that, if they want to make T3's less powerful than T2 ships, they need to reduce the price (nobody is going to fly a 500mil ship that is worse than a 150mil ship, and fills the same role), make the flexibility of T3's readily apparent, (like allowing for subsystem swaps on the fly), and remove the skill point loss
I seriously hope they don't nerf T3's, because in my opinion the way they are right now is perfectly fine, with the exception of the legion who desperately needs a buff to it's laser subsystem in terms of dps
As far as reasons for nerfing T3's go, which seem to be either that 100mn AB fits are too strong, or that T3's are too good at missioning (I guess this is really the tengu only), I think that both complaints arise not from the T3 ship class itself but from a side mechanic
In the case of 100mn AB ships, the issue isn't the T3's, it's the gang boosters. If you take any ship, give it loki and tengu(or legion) bonuses, it will seem OP, without exception. I mean, you can make a dual rep thorax that costs 20mil, does ~500dps, tanks around ~600 (or more overloaded I think), and goes 1800m/s non overloaded. Should we nerf thoraxes? No. And if you take the same 100mn AB ship and take away it's gang boosters, suddenly it's not very good. It's still decent because it's fit with faction mods and the like, but it's mobility is greatly compromised
Also, I don't think gang boosters should be nerfed either, but that is a separate issue
In the case of tengu's being pretty much the goto ship for mission runners nowadays, I blame this on the fact that the battleship sized weapon systems for caldari suck. Torps have terrible range and literally cannot hit anything (I mean, seriously, there are 5 target painter golem fits out there CCP, probably should look at making torps actually useful), and cruise missiles are useless compared to heavy missiles because their extra range (outside of 100km) is useless in pretty much all scenarios, and the marginal extra dps you get is mitigated by the fact that the missiles do less damage to the same size target
So yea. Please don't make my tengu(s) as useful as a navy eagle (or navy cerb).
Edit: More or less the thorax fit I was talking about. And this doesn't even include pirate implants/faction mods, as you would see on any self-respecting 100mn AB tengu.
http://i.imgur.com/Ndotd.jpg |
Parsee789
Immaterial and Missing Power
74
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
^ Agreed with above. The Tengu only looks good, because of how horrible the rest of caldari line up is.
When was the last time you really saw anyone using a Raven for PVP? How many times is it used compared to other Battleships?
Who in world the flies the lolcerberus. By the time your missile hit the far away target, the target will have warped out. Its inferior to the Drake for more damage and lower cost.
The Tengu is more favorable to use that the Caldari Battleships, simply because Cruise Missiles are lols for PVP and torpedoes aren't either. And Caldari Capitals are pretty much failures next to Minmatar - less reason to train Caldari BS to V.
The Tengu is good because Cruisers are used and trained more than ****** Caldari Battleships - Scorpion is exception.
Heavy Missiles actually work, the rest are weak and/or broken. Torpedoes requires tons of support, training, and specialized ships to get to even work right. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
378
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 02:47:00 -
[40] - Quote
Man, the Cerb isn't that bad. Why does everyone keep saying it is? |
|
Angsty Teenager
50
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 03:06:00 -
[41] - Quote
Because HAM's are bad without a web/TP on the target and the Cerb has low tank as is without dropping one of it's slots for a TP. And using HAM's is pretty much the only viable thing to do on the Cerb because if you don't, your range bonus goes to waste as the Cerb has a targeting range of 100km and an effective range of 170km with all V skills and HM's w/ scourge fury in. Even if it could target out that far, missiles aren't really that viable for sniper platforms for obvious reasons (flight time), and assuming an engagement range of under 100km the drake is cheaper, has more tank, and does more dps than a cerb.
Particularly if you consider a nano drake, you do more dps, have more tank, less fitting issues, less cap issues, roughly the same speed, and drones and a web (or 2) to deal with frigs. |
Tikera Tissant
24
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 09:41:00 -
[42] - Quote
To be honest I don't see any reason to nerf the tengu at all. For a ship which cost 3 or maybe 4 times the cost of the T2, and with the dying skill penalty, the ship is right where it should be. The T2s are just aren't as good as they should be, and I don't see a reason to nerf the T3 to be below a bad ship because the bad ship is... bad.
But I do think that the other T3s need to be similar in the versatility. Proteus for example is pretty crap for PvE (without 100 AB and blasters, the dps is just horrid), but close contact PvP it does great. The loki and legion are somewhere in the middle, and I would love to see them buffed a bit (and the proteus being better in PvE). |
Tanya Powers
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
965
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 09:44:00 -
[43] - Quote
Fredfredbug4 wrote:If the Tengu gets nerfed, CCP will handle it the way they handle most nerfs.
The Tengu will be nearly unusable and everyone will start flying Lokis.
Then the Loki's will be nerfed and everyone will start flying Proteuses
Add that we're not used at all to see Minmatar ships ruling almost everywhere and aspect of the game, indeed Loki is in need of a buff. I don't care the only one I can't fly is Legion (yet) but it's not even a problem. |
Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 01:08:00 -
[44] - Quote
They should just buff the damage subsystems of the other T3s to be roughly in line with a Tengu's. The tengu's combined damage and ROF bonus works out to 100% dps increase over unbonused launchers. The other T3s have to make do with a 50% increase to DPS (yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps).
Then maybe CCP can think about fixing the multitude of other things wrong with T3s (like the Legion's weird slot layouts, useless drone sub, semi-useless neuting sub, the Proteus' underpowered drone sub, etc.) but they'd probably end up doing more harm than good
EDIT: Also my theory regarding the perception that 100mn Tengus are OP are due to idiots flying nothing but cookiecutter shield battlecruisers and don't realize the value of recons, bonused webs, heavy neuts, logis, TPs, or any of the many things that severely mess up 100mn AB fits. Because, spoilers, 100mn ABs are a direct counter to flavour-of-the-year shield BC/hac fleets. |
Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
339
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 02:11:00 -
[45] - Quote
Quote:yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps
Please do explain these mathematics.
If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second. If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second. |
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope Knights of Tomorrow
45
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 03:03:00 -
[46] - Quote
I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf. |
Bienator II
madmen of the skies
658
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 03:25:00 -
[47] - Quote
JackStraw56 wrote:I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf. this would be a t3 nerf. problem is the tengu. Not saying that it would be a bad thing but it wouldn't solve the issue. a eve-style bounty system https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=359105 You fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail you fail to jump because you are cloaked |
Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 04:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Quote:yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps Please do explain these mathematics. If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second. If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second.
That's not how RoF bonuses work, they reduce the cycle time of the module by a percentage. Because of how awesome RoF bonuses are, a Loki actually gets effectively a 60% bonus to dps.
So a gun that shoots once every 10s gets its duration reduced by 37.5%, it gets reduced to 6.25s (10 * (1 - 0.375)).
(1 / 6.25) / (1 / 10) = 1.6 = 60% dps bonus.
Or just open up EFT, put some autocannons on a Ferox and some on a Loki and compare the DPS.
This is also why a 5-gun zealot out-damages a 5-gun legion by a fair amount (25% dmg 25% RoF bonus > 50% dmg bonus)
PS, Tengus are not the problem, 100mn tengus have lots of weaknesses, it's just that no one flies the ships it's weak to because they're not DRAKES N CANES |
Sunviking
The Shining Knights
25
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 07:19:00 -
[49] - Quote
CCP just need to increase the Powergrid requirements of battleship-class Afterburners to the point where no Tech3 can fit them.
Job done. |
Joyelle
State War Academy Caldari State
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 10:44:00 -
[50] - Quote
Sunviking wrote:CCP just need to increase the Powergrid requirements of battleship-class Afterburners to the point where no Tech3 can fit them.
Job done. no |
|
Roosterton
Syndicalis Immortalis
339
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 14:39:00 -
[51] - Quote
Viribus wrote:Roosterton wrote:Quote:yes the loki's 37.5% RoF reduction works out to 50% more dps Please do explain these mathematics. If a gun shoots once per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1 damage per second. If a gun shoots 1.375 times per ten seconds, doing 10 damage, it's doing 1.375 damage per second. That's not how RoF bonuses work, they reduce the cycle time of the module by a percentage. Because of how awesome RoF bonuses are, a Loki actually gets effectively a 60% bonus to dps. So a gun that shoots once every 10s gets its duration reduced by 37.5%, it gets reduced to 6.25s (10 * (1 - 0.375)). (1 / 6.25) / (1 / 10) = 1.6 = 60% dps bonus. Or just open up EFT, put some autocannons on a Ferox and some on a Loki and compare the DPS. This is also why a 5-gun zealot out-damages a 5-gun legion by a fair amount (25% dmg 25% RoF bonus > 50% dmg bonus) PS, Tengus are not the problem, 100mn tengus have lots of weaknesses, it's just that no one flies the ships it's weak to because they're not DRAKES N CANES
Ah, I get it. So saying that the rate is being increased by 37.5% would then be incorrect terminology - shouldn't the bonus say "-37.5% to turret cycle time" instead?
|
Viribus
Love Squad Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 16:08:00 -
[52] - Quote
Roosterton wrote:Ah, I get it. So saying that the rate is being increased by 37.5% would then be incorrect terminology - shouldn't the bonus say "-37.5% to turret cycle time" instead?
Yeah it's really semantics.
Anyway people are being babies about the 100mn thing, they're strong against certain ships but have a number of weaknesses (namely the inability to turn and very slow acceleration) and require gimping your fit in some way to shoehorn on the oversized AB |
lacal
Ministry of Destruction SCUM.
5
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 17:06:00 -
[53] - Quote
Viribus wrote:Anyway people are being babies about the 100mn thing, they're strong against certain ships but have a number of weaknesses (namely the inability to turn and very slow acceleration) and require gimping your fit in some way to shoehorn on the oversized AB
Agreed, no need for a tengu nerf - the more people flying them the better as far as I'm concerned.
|
JackStraw56
Run Like an Antelope Knights of Tomorrow
46
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:09:00 -
[54] - Quote
Bienator II wrote:JackStraw56 wrote:I'd like to see them nerf 100mn afterburners on cruiser hulls somehow. This would qualify as a nice tengu nerf. this would be a t3 nerf. problem is the tengu. Not saying that it would be a bad thing but it wouldn't solve the issue. 100mn works much better on tengu than the other T3s though because of its extreme range and no tracking issues, so it would be much more of a tengu nerf than any other t3. |
deppth
Everybodys-Dead-Dave
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 11:13:00 -
[55] - Quote
Buff the Legion to be in line with other T3's!! |
Jerick Ludhowe
Wraiths of Abaddon
63
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 19:49:00 -
[56] - Quote
I'm on board with a change to over sized prop mods making them unable to be fit on anything but intended hull size. |
saucy jackass
Hedion University Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 18:01:00 -
[57] - Quote
Jerick Ludhowe wrote:I'm on board with a change to over sized prop mods making them unable to be fit on anything but intended hull size.
^^Im too cheap to buy a 100mn tengu or too scared to lose one. So nerf it because im jealous!^^ |
Dio Chrysostom
8 Bit Redux
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 02:11:00 -
[58] - Quote
I swear to god, between CCP and Blizzard player base will never trust another MMO company again. Why the F@@@ would you nerf the Tengu it is a PVE boat and your already nerfing the drakes tank. What the F%%% are you going to run sites in ? ? that can shoot farther than 5km ?
People !!! The only way we can punish CCP for their Greed and lack of intellect is by hurting their wallets. with all forms of PvP save for blob warfare nerfed. And the nerfing of the 2 most popular site running ships (Drake & Tengu) to the point of them being wothless for running sites. What do some players have left besides going to another MMO that has not sold out for profit yet.
I used to love Eve like family I held out after watching multiple friends quit over the years. I used to feel that no matter what I would never ever quit eve. But in the past 6 months CCP has ruined or announced they are ruining every single way I play the game. Now short of running sites here and there before they nerf the Tengu, all I do is log in and talk with friends who like me have been patched out of their way of life and cannot do antyhing besides talk anymore. How about you nerf something that really f's the ballance of the game up instead of make believe f's it up something like the new ASB.
I will take pleasure in CCPs demise along with actively participating in campaigns against CCP/Eve right after I let my 3 paying characters sub's run out even though I have been plexing them for months. I only wish I could take back money that I already payed to CCP in order to hasten their failure. Me and another scorned buddy of mine are going to start an anti-dust/ anti-CCP blog soon and promote it with vigor across the gaming world. Not that it will really be needed CCP will never be able to compete with GW2 when it comes out because unlike CCP GW has not spurned the hardcore PvP market (yet) |
Saile Litestrider
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 02:27:00 -
[59] - Quote
So, your stuff, can I have it? |
Nikodiemus
Jokulhlaup
38
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 02:30:00 -
[60] - Quote
Source?
|
|
Akonnen
Birds of Prey Inc.
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 11:09:00 -
[61] - Quote
Removing fleet boosting capabilites of all T3 cruiser would be wise. Make command ships viable for the time it takes to train... might as well remove them completely if not. |
Kaena Stark
Assisted Homicide
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 11:19:00 -
[62] - Quote
Dio Chrysostom wrote:CCP are bad people
lol yea i totally agree and stuff, can i have your things now? |
Lucious Shakiel
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 11:30:00 -
[63] - Quote
Heavy Missiles are too powerful. They project damage faaar beyond why any medium turret can compare too, even when the turret is using T2 long range ammo, unless said turret boat uses a lot of mods to increase range. The range on those things needs to be brought in line, then a ship with a Heavy missile range bonus might be worth something. |
Lilith Aurilien
State War Academy Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 11:57:00 -
[64] - Quote
Amazing - 4 pages of crying, wooping, discussion and hyposthesis over what? Nothing...not one link to any source that even hints at any kind of nerf to the Tengu.
OP hasn't posted since making the topic - You all been trolled.
Post a link to an official source stating the exact nature of these imaginary 'nerfs' or STFU and let this thread die... |
Seishi Maru
doMAL S.A.
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 12:22:00 -
[65] - Quote
Lilith Aurilien wrote:Amazing - 4 pages of crying, wooping, discussion and hyposthesis over what? Nothing...not one link to any source that even hints at any kind of nerf to the Tengu. OP hasn't posted since making the topic - You all been trolled. Post a link to an official source stating the exact nature of these imaginary 'nerfs' or STFU and let this thread die...
Come on.. you must admit his trolling deserves a 8.5/10 Extremely well executed and with very little text. Based upon a latent fear of the community based on a common altough self denied perception that the tengu is overpowered :P |
Tor Gungnir
Agenda Industries
282
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 12:46:00 -
[66] - Quote
All-in-all, a well-executed trolling. Space. It seems to go on and on forever. But then you get to the end and a gorilla starts throwing barrels at you. |
Daniel Plain
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
242
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 13:17:00 -
[67] - Quote
Dio Chrysostom wrote:I swear to god, between CCP and Blizzard player base will never trust another MMO company again. Why the F@@@ would you nerf the Tengu it is a PVE boat and your already nerfing the drakes tank. What the F%%% are you going to run sites in ? ? that can shoot farther than 5km ?
People !!! The only way we can punish CCP for their Greed and lack of intellect is by hurting their wallets. with all forms of PvP save for blob warfare nerfed. And the nerfing of the 2 most popular site running ships (Drake & Tengu) to the point of them being wothless for running sites. What do some players have left besides going to another MMO that has not sold out for profit yet.
I used to love Eve like family I held out after watching multiple friends quit over the years. I used to feel that no matter what I would never ever quit eve. But in the past 6 months CCP has ruined or announced they are ruining every single way I play the game. Now short of running sites here and there before they nerf the Tengu, all I do is log in and talk with friends who like me have been patched out of their way of life and cannot do antyhing besides talk anymore. How about you nerf something that really f's the ballance of the game up instead of make believe f's it up something like the new ASB.
I will take pleasure in CCPs demise along with actively participating in campaigns against CCP/Eve right after I let my 3 paying characters sub's run out even though I have been plexing them for months. I only wish I could take back money that I already payed to CCP in order to hasten their failure. Me and another scorned buddy of mine are going to start an anti-dust/ anti-CCP blog soon and promote it with vigor across the gaming world. Not that it will really be needed CCP will never be able to compete with GW2 when it comes out because unlike CCP GW has not spurned the hardcore PvP market (yet)
why would you necro a two month old topic with an incoherent wall of text? what's wrong with you?
"I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings" -MXZF |
Zyress
The Fabulous Thunderbirds
112
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 18:48:00 -
[68] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Cerb isn't bad.
The king of irrelevant range |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
473
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 19:13:00 -
[69] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:Im guessing tengu to the ground and loki to be boosted to high heavens !
Afterall minmatars have race-right to be the best and they have been totally underpowered compared lolcaldari in this aspect.
Loki is already the second best T3 and on pair with Tengu if you put aside Command subs. Tengu does not need nerf of any kind except that stupid command ship but hey, it's not like Booster Lokis were unknown right? Nerf that command sub on all T3's is a very nice thing but then Tengu or Loki don't need any sort of nerf, on the other let's see what's bad on those T3's:
-Legion: awful HAM sub, Laser sub would like another hard point but maybe needs to trade a low for this (less tank moar gank)
Don't know much about this ship but these two points seem to come back again and again by people using them very often.
-Tengu: Can't fir a rack of Blasters with hybrid sub so rails don't even try or you'll commit hara kiri. Ham's Tengu don't like it
-Proteus: Probably the worst drone boat of all, command sub is ridiculous but I will not complain here and actually would like all T3 command subs just go down the toilets. Can't fit a decent rack of Rails and fit decent active tank without making far too much sacrifice at the point it becomes pointless, hell even without active tank fit rails on Proteus is pointless (all med Rails are total crap and med blasters still need some work)
-Loki: sacrifices far too much stuff to fit a decent rack of 720's but at least it can (Proteus don't), good DPS with AC excellent shield or armor tanked ship, can permanently run a large shield booster cap stable and still have a decent dps.
Actually I can't find those ships overpowered, they all have very strong points for something but some subs are weak and are not in need of nerfs, be it the pimped Tengu every one and his mother hates for stupid reasons, the battleship gank dps Proteus, the uber Tengu hunter armor tank double faction web Loki or the almost unbreakable Legion Brick.
I don't like the command subs anyway and think those T3 ships shouldn't be touched in any 0.000000001% before Cruiser/Battlecruiser rebalance, then see if they need nerfs or buffs, they need more buffs than nerfs right now, after cruiser/Battlecruiser rebalance it will be worst, but yes Command subs are OP on Tengu and Loki.
Just an opinion, any way until this rebalance stuff really comes up thousands if not millions will be born and others die.
Soon (TM by CCP) means in a couple years.
Instead of crying "nrf mumma nerf" fit those ships all T2 stuff and then come again say they're overpowered, they're not. Command sub needs to go away YES, give them a better logistic role YES, nerf them when those have the heaviest drawback just by undocking with before cap ships it's just plain silly and bad for the game. brb |
Tarak Addaney
Freelance Economics Astrological resources Tactical Narcotics Team
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 19:34:00 -
[70] - Quote
Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line.
Caldari t2 cruisers are crap compared to everyone elses
|
|
Onictus
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
163
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 07:45:00 -
[71] - Quote
Tarak Addaney wrote:Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. Caldari t2 cruisers are crap compared to everyone elses
The amarr T2 line up is pretty Craptastic.....excluding the recons.
Just like caldari, if you think the falcon and room are Crap I have news for you. |
Maeltstome
Caldari Deep Space Ventures Intrepid Crossing
35
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Tarak Addaney wrote:Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. Caldari t2 cruisers are crap compared to everyone elses The amarr T2 line up is pretty Craptastic.....excluding the recons. Just like caldari, if you think the falcon and room are Crap I have news for you.
Zealot: Excellent Curse: Always primary due to how deadly it is Pilgrim: Unparalleled for solo roaming in hostile space/k-space Sacrilege: underused but definitely a strong HAC. Guardian: Do i need to explain?
Sweeping statements like the one you just made are what create false perceptions and lead to pointless 'balancing' of ships that don't need balanced. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
543
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 08:27:00 -
[73] - Quote
Onictus wrote:The amarr T2 line up is pretty Craptastic.....excluding the recons.
Just like caldari, if you think the falcon and room are Crap I have news for you.
Counterpoints: Zealot. Devoter. Guardian. Damnation. Absolution. Heretic. Sentinel. Purifier. Vengeance. Retribution.
Amarr have a very strong T2 lineup, maybe not if all you want is "SOLO BRAWLMAN LONEWOLF PVP" but certainly not "craptastic" by any stretch. |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
491
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 18:00:00 -
[74] - Quote
Akonnen wrote:Removing fleet boosting capabilites of all T3 cruiser would be wise. Make command ships viable for the time it takes to train... might as well remove them completely if not.
T3's already don't have bomber sub or interdictor sub, so I will not miss that Command sub in any terms, versatility yes, pick spec ships role no. Command ships are in need of love and some like EOS in need of total revamp, and it's not Tengus or Lokis that made it bad, it has always been.
People tend to compare Tengu with Cerberus witch only proves how horribly they know that ship. All HACs are in deep need of huge buffs, except maybe Zealot that is still an awesome ship, but this becomes then irrelevant for discussions about how much Tengu is op or not. Also a lot of people forget Cerberus is a missile spewer at 150km with not much of a problem, the problem of Cerbeus is exactly the same all other HAC's have, fittings, bonuses. Once this is balanced, I hope properly, there will be no more false threads about this. brb |
Lin-Young Borovskova
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
491
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 18:04:00 -
[75] - Quote
Onictus wrote:Tarak Addaney wrote:Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. Caldari t2 cruisers are crap compared to everyone elses The amarr T2 line up is pretty Craptastic.....excluding the recons. Just like caldari, if you think the falcon and room are Crap I have news for you.
Lol dude, Amarr are just fantastic, more spec than some other races because dmg selection (vs Calamari or Matarr), but they're definitively good and have an excellent representation from small pvp to large fleets. in fact, I think Amarr is probably the most balanced pvp race, they have very strong points and also very strong drawbacks but some how they have a very decent line up not being top dogs but sure not underdogs. brb |
Suqq Madiq
Amarr Empire
124
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 19:05:00 -
[76] - Quote
God's Apples wrote:I've killed plenty of buffer and active (not just t2 fit) tengus solo with my nano cane.
The ZERO Tengu kills on your Killboard seems to indicate you may be talking out of your ass. You should get that looked at. |
Mechael
Ouroboros Executor Collective
167
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 23:47:00 -
[77] - Quote
Hopefully they bring them in line with other cruisers (lower just about all of the stats/bonuses) so that they don't obsolete any of them. And then all that needs to happen is make warfare links only work when on grid. Whether or not you win the game matters not. -áIt's if you bought it. |
Voith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
85
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 05:06:00 -
[78] - Quote
Tarak Addaney wrote:Voith wrote:Ines Tegator wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Would anyone care to link a source for this alleged tengu nerf? There is no source cause there is no nerf. What there IS, is a discussion of ship balance from fanfest, where they state that t3 is ideally more versatile but roughly equal in power to navy faction ships, and t2 ships are more powerful at any given task but specialized. It's a discussion, that's all. Look up the fanfest feeds. Why is it that "not surpassing T2" ships only applies to the Legion and Proteus? Loki's and Tengu's Designers had no problem obsoleting their T2s. (Whose drone subsystem is actually inferior to T1 Vexor/Arb) I really can't imagine how much you were dropped on your head as a child to be able to spout this line. Caldari t2 cruisers are crap compared to everyone elses :downs:
Rooks and Falcons are horrible ships!!!!11111oneeleven
Zealot is a great all around ship, and Amarr Recons and Logi hold their own. Sacrilege is crap, the Drake out classes it.
The core point remains completely unchallenged and unassailable after 4 months: The design philosophy behind T3 was used to limit Amarr/Gallente, and was ignored to allow Caldari/Minmatar to succeed.
But this is standard for Eve and has been for years. It is easier to design two great ships and crap out two poor ones than to design 4 good ones. |
Rel'k Bloodlor
Mecha Enterprises Fleet Villore Accords
195
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 05:07:00 -
[79] - Quote
I just want to see the T3's bonuses brought below there T2 counter parts. The big one here is the command bonuses BUT they all should be lower than T2's. T2's get between 3-6 bonuses some static role some buy skill level, all focused at a single goal. On the other hand you have T3' which aside from there over heat bonuses get 5-9 other things and some exclusive to the hull(like the over heat) BUT there really needs to be more subsystems, drones for amarr missiles for minnie and the missing Ewar for not caldari just to name a few. At the end of the day what makes a T3 great should be the choices and versatility not out doing one thing, that's what T2 is for. Right now that's not what were seeing, T3's have replaced all races command ships, some races HAC's, Some races Ewar ships, and some races sneaky sneaky Recons. Now i love what they have done for small gang work BUT stepping on other ships toes to do it kinda sucks, all and all tho its rather moot in this necro thread as they will be "balancing" T1 cruisers and hopefully there T2 counter parts and with that perhaps the T3 will be the one in need of buffs.
And as always remember when in dought ask for a nerf to armor caps, Dark Lord knows they need them. I am in Factional Warfare. Have been from day one.-á-áI will never work for a mega corp in null-sec. Do not make FW like null-sec. Were is the FW exclusive frigate sized ship? I see the cruiser and battle ship.......... |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |