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Pithecanthropus
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Posted - 2008.09.08 18:45:00 -
[61]
 Originally by: Menerai Entaro
Sadly Jade is correct. As annoying as it is (to have corps singled out of fleets), the fact remains that changing it would open it up to wardec avoidance. A corporation would be able to dodge a wardec by moving/reforming in FW and still remain intact. That is unacceptable as it would prevent corporations being destroyed/disbanded, which is an important mechanic in EVE's player run economy.
If a corporation in FW was completely unable to affect the market in any (something which would likely be impossible) then you could do it.
Look  I spotted a Jade alt.
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Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man. |
Red Raider
Airbourne Demons
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Posted - 2008.09.09 18:33:00 -
[62]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
And yet, because you are posting with an alt why would anyone believe you?
WOW! Just WOW!!! So what you saying is a person doesn't have the right in EVE to post anonymously? Since there isn't a mechanic for it people who do not want to be hounded by forum trolls in game do post with alts. If you don't think it doesn't happen your wrong.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Your posting on this particular alt has been abrasive and rude, you've been unwilling to see other people's points and dogmatically stated the same old disproved theories with nothing but growing irritation to mark your participation in the topic.
Look at your public behavior since you have been in the CSM Jade! Pot calling the kettle black don't you think! Your here insulting a persons right to post anonymously and have the audacity to say that they are the ones who are in fact rude, abrasive, and unwilling to see other people's points? Not to mention your clearly biased in this topic and defending that stance to the death ATM which makes the bias all the more obvious.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
You are pretty much soapboxing with nothing but your own voice and a couple of other alts to back you up? (are those yours as well? who knows) Any which way its simply not very persuasive.
What are you doing? You have more or less dominated this thread with brow beating and insults on a position that you are biased on because of your direct involvement in war decing FW corps. You can't agree to disagree with people instead you come in and tell them they are clearly wrong and ignorant of the actual intent of CCP using the sandbox moniker of the game as an excuse to break the intent of CCP to use FW to get new players and carebears into PVP.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I think you have made a bad mistake to keep your identity hidden for five yours. You should have been building a reputation that people could refer too when considering your points of view. Instead you currently don't have one. I'd suggest you begin posting with your main now and begin the task of gaining the credibility you need to take the kind of positions you have been taking.
Your reputation is less than stellar so I don't know what your bragging about. Your constant attempts at brow beating people into submission is very unbecoming of the Chair of the CSM, the CSM itself, you, your corp, your alliance, and of the EVE community for allowing you to be elected in the first place. Good thing the CSM is a popularity contest of who has the most corp/alliance members instead of forcing every person to vote when they log in because you most certainly would get no where near re-elected because your opponents would simply have to post the pages of ignorant drivel you spout and the intolerant behavior you display to condemn you to the ranks of the the "has been's" and "never was's".
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Anyways, its your choice end of the day.
Your right and its your duty as a member of the CSM to represent the community as a whole too CCP and not forum ***** for the good of you, your corp, and your alliance. Granted they got you elected, not going to go into how stupid the system is and how a blind monkey could get elected the first time a position like this is created, but you still have a duty to the entire player base even the ones that post as an alt and not as a main.
As for my support of the topic, FW corps should, in my opinion, only be allowed to be war dec'ed if all of the corps in the faction are given the status of members of an alliance and can defend each other equally just as alliances do.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:49:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 09/09/2008 19:51:26
I disagree of course. I will never consider the opinion of a posting alt to be the equal of a character with a fully-developed in-game reputation. I consider anonymity to be counterproductive to the interests of good political debate. Hence I really won't be taking the opinions of alt-posters seriously.
As for your opinion about FW corps being made immune to wardecs. You are simply wrong. Its not a change that is in any way shape or form in the interests of Eve online.
Star Fraction | Dare to Dream!
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Dizeezer Velar
Caldari
League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees
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Posted - 2008.09.09 19:55:00 -
[64]
FW corps should not be immune to wardecs. If your corporation cannot compete it should close, just like in real life.
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Red Raider
Caldari
Airbourne Demons
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Posted - 2008.09.09 20:14:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
I disagree of course. I will never consider the opinion of a posting alt to be the equal of a character with a fully-developed in-game reputation. I consider anonymity to be counterproductive to the interests of good political debate. Hence I really won't be taking the opinions of alt-posters seriously.
So a anonymous vote for a CSM member doesn't count as much as a vote from someone you know? Right, I will make sure your opposition knows that you only want people who you personally know and respect to vote for you because those are the only people you represent.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
As for your opinion about FW corps being made immune to wardecs. You are simply wrong. Its not a change that is in any way shape or form in the interests of Eve online.
Again you prove your ineptness in dealing with people. It's an opinion Jade. It cant be wrong. I didn't state it as fact but you do. Proving that you incapable of making a rational decision outside of kowtowing to your own agenda.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
Jade Constantine
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Posted - 2008.09.09 20:52:00 -
[66]
Edited by: Jade Constantine on 09/09/2008 20:57:12
Originally by: Red Raider
It's an opinion Jade. It cant be wrong.
Yes it can.
And yes it is.
FW corps being made immune to wardecs would not be in the general good of eve.
This thread shows its only a handful of alts in favour of this move - you all sound very similar to each other and you all make your point with a mix of bad information, ill-formed opinions, personal attacks and insults your stock in trade.
But end of the day you are still completely wrong. Not sure what kind of weird liberal non-judgmental form of education you attended but if I'd handed in a paper claiming it was my opinion that the world was shaped like a cheese sandwich then my teacher would hand back a score of zero - not plaudits for the attempt and a condescending commentary: "well done! You might not have gotten the correct answer but you are differently right!"
This is a debating forum. If you put your name (even an assumed one) to a terrible opinion you will get refuted and called on it.
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Red Raider
Caldari
Airbourne Demons
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:24:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
Yes it can.
And yes it is.
o+pin+ion [ ə pfnnyən ] (plural o+pin+ions)
noun
Definition:
personal view: the view somebody takes about an issue, especially when it is based solely on personal judgment
Now that you know what an opinion is and that it is not 1+1=2 maybe you can come to terms with the idea of being wrong. I wont be holding my breath on that.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
FW corps being made immune to wardecs would not be in the general good of eve.
Why? It would not be in the general good of Jericho Fraction but you have only argued that they shouldn't recieve special treatment and then thrown down insults about using alts. You obviously don't know WTF your talking about because I am not an alt but you haven't looked into that your simply blowing smoke up anyone's ass who would think your CSM tag makes you an authority around here.
The fact is they already get special treatment but don't get the benefit of being in a quasi alliance despite the fact that thats what they are part of more or less. It makes them easier targets because they have a lot more to worry about and can't help each other by forming an alliance to defend one another. They have to act in an autonomous manner and war dec'ing an alliance for a handful of noobs who are just trying to get into PVP isn't a very good option due to the massive cost involved in doing so. You have every advantage in farming FW corps for kills and you don't want to lose it.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
This thread shows its only a handful of alts in favour of this move - you all sound very similar to each other and you all make your point with a mix of bad information, ill-formed opinions, personal attacks and insults your stock in trade
Brow beating again Jade. You say that we are here attacking you but nothing we have said is in error. We say your biased because Jericho Fraction is directly involved in this activity and you don't refute it. Then you make back handed insults about how we "know nothing" and how alt's opinions can't be considered as viable. Your the one coming in here insulting people and attacking them for using alt's but when one defends themselves by pointing out the error of your ways we are attacking and insulting you? You should talk to Obama about running his campaign.
Originally by: Jade Constantine
But end of the day you are still completely wrong. Not sure what kind of weird liberal non-judgmental form of education you attended but if I'd handed in a paper claiming it was my opinion that the world was shaped like a cheese sandwich then my teacher would hand back a score of zero - not plaudits for the attempt and a condescending commentary: "well done! You might not have gotten the correct answer but you are differently right!"
Again with the ignorant and backhanded insults in an attempt at avoiding the subject at hand. Your behaving like a 12 year old who is being threatened with having his ball taken away and yet we are the people misbehaving?
Originally by: Jade Constantine
This is a debating forum. If you put your name (even an assumed one) to a terrible opinion you will get refuted and called on it.
Yet you don't refute anything here you simply say that it shouldn't be changed. For such an expert you seem to have no offerings as to why it would be bad, only that they shouldn't receive special treatment. The fact is they do and it makes them an easier target than being an alliance because they can't band together without leaving FW. If they all war dec it costs them as a group many times more to do it than it would a single corp or alliance. This makes them all that much weaker and the vicious circle continues.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
danwa
Gallente
MicroFunks
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Posted - 2008.09.10 14:17:00 -
[68]
Excuse me Alt's and Mains - but can we get back to the discussion of War dec'ing in FW. Seems this thread went off topic a bit and needs to come back to the point.
IMHO - War dec'ing is fine - we are fighting in both now FW and a War dec...however the one thing that does need to be changed is Fleet Operations for FW ops only.
If you are in a FW Fleet and you are fired on by another Militia, Corp, Neutral, Pirate or whoever, all fleet members have the right to fire back on you without consequence no matter the sec rating of space they are in.
If the corp is not in fleet ops at the time they are fighting, then the Militia cannot get involved. Then it is just between the corp's. This would apply to both Hi or Lo sec.
Take it from me, in R/L if you fired upon any group of soldiers, sailors, airman or marines, they would not care if you were "Whistlers Mother" - you would get a complete retailitation from the entire group. In R/L when you have are taking fire, you always returned fire and then figured it out later.
Simple - end of story.
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Red Raider
Caldari
Airbourne Demons
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:28:00 -
[69]
Originally by: danwa
Excuse me Alt's and Mains - but can we get back to the discussion of War dec'ing in FW. Seems this thread went off topic a bit and needs to come back to the point.
IMHO - War dec'ing is fine - we are fighting in both now FW and a War dec...however the one thing that does need to be changed is Fleet Operations for FW ops only.
If you are in a FW Fleet and you are fired on by another Militia, Corp, Neutral, Pirate or whoever, all fleet members have the right to fire back on you without consequence no matter the sec rating of space they are in.
If the corp is not in fleet ops at the time they are fighting, then the Militia cannot get involved. Then it is just between the corp's. This would apply to both Hi or Lo sec.
Take it from me, in R/L if you fired upon any group of soldiers, sailors, airman or marines, they would not care if you were "Whistlers Mother" - you would get a complete retailitation from the entire group. In R/L when you have are taking fire, you always returned fire and then figured it out later.
Simple - end of story.
I agree with this. I just don't like the fact that an alliance can war dec corps that have to leave FW to form an alliance as well when they are already in a quasi alliance.
It simply allows the Alliance to spend very little money to fight a very vulnerable enemy that by and large has less experience than themselves.
In turn the corps can seek out help but the cost is astronomical for them and not for the alliance.
A happy gamer isnt on the forums, they are playing the game unless they have an idea that they honestly think is helping out. |
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