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Kozak
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Posted - 2004.06.08 12:30:00 -
[1]
Ok I have to vent a little. I was selling Afterburner II's and everything was going well, we had them selling at 2 mill, then the price wars started.
I was happy selling them at around 1 mill a unit, but now there are people selling them for under 700K.
Here's the break down...
If you add up all the components it you need and the Morphite, at average prices available in surrounding regions, the price comes to 535,000 isk. Add up the rest of the minerals and factory rent, and the cost of sale, it come close to 600,000 isk. Now some edited are selling these at 680,000 isk. Now, for me, it costs more then 80,000 isk to jump around the region in an indy collecting all the components, then manufacturing and delivering to high travelled systems.
Anyway, if you're the edited selling at those prices (there's more then one) open up your calculator and do the math.
Oh, and most regions are out of 2 of the components needed for AB II production and when they do appear, the price they are offered at throws production cost to almost 700K.
Edited -Zhuge Liang
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DaniB
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Posted - 2004.06.08 12:44:00 -
[2]
Eve has a bloody hard capitalistic economy, at least in the empire space, so you cant come arround of the competition...
Adept to that and spread your stockage on different regions or even to 0.0 space, where the ppl buy their stuff. Work out a resonable price for your product and stay for some time on that, dont give to much on trade channel, raven's sometimes go there for 97mil but ppl buy at more then 100mil on the ingame market.
Good luck to your business 
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Melle Brast
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:05:00 -
[3]
Poor Kozak can't rip of ppl anymore...
It's a free world and market Kozak, be happy that you could rip ppl of cash as long as you could on the AB IIs.
No offence meant, that is just how it is
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redi
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:10:00 -
[4]
 Originally by: Kozak
Ok I have to vent a little. I was selling Afterburner II's and everything was going well, we had them selling at 2 mill, then the price wars started.
I was happy selling them at around 1 mill a unit, but now there are people selling them for under 700K.
Here's the break down...
If you add up all the components it you need and the Morphite, at average prices available in surrounding regions, the price comes to 535,000 isk. Add up the rest of the minerals and factory rent, and the cost of sale, it come close to 600,000 isk. Now some dumbasses are selling these at 680,000 isk. Now, for me, it costs more then 80,000 isk to jump around the region in an indy collecting all the components, then manufacturing and delivering to high travelled systems.
Anyway, if you're the dumbasses selling at those prices (there's more then one) open up your calculator and do the math.
Oh, and most regions are out of 2 of the components needed for AB II production and when they do appear, the price they are offered at throws production cost to almost 700K.
Im sorry but its called capitalism! Survival of the fittest bla bla bla.
Nothing new, here! If you live in the real world you should have noticed it there too.
Improve your marketing and production and minimize your transportations.
lol damn i miss the good old Capitalism games and Transport Tycoon games.
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HavokTBP: lieing about kills... noobs don't count. |
Anderi Bourdieu
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:15:00 -
[5]
How many of us can be producing AB IIs and MWD IIs?
I'm not sure about how many BPOs there are out there, maybe form a Cartel?
I know it's been tried before with Tech I ships, but there were just too many BPOs out there to do it. Maybe with the small trickle of Tech II BPOs it could be possible this time.
Everyone would benefit...
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Ruffio Sepico
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:16:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Melle Brast
Poor Kozak can't rip of ppl anymore...
It's a free world and market Kozak, be happy that you could rip ppl of cash as long as you could on the AB IIs.
No offence meant, that is just how it is
And exactly how was he ripping someone off? EVE is filled with impatient stupid people who price their products at like NILL profit. I have been building anything from small ammo to battleships during my time in EVE, and have more than once noticed how some seems desperate to sell their stuff once produced. A region where there is more than 3 people building the same item usally end up in a price war at silly prices. Not to forget those who mine the mins themselves and dont give a flying F about their mins actually is worth market price or not.
Building tech 2 stuff is a hassle. You have to gather all the components at most of the time at a ridicilous high price. Then build the base component, gather minerals. Add in factory costs, time spent travelig etc. To want something back for the effort is quite normal, and if you cant get that, then its better to sell bpc's. Then the people that moan about how pricy things are can build the stuff themselves.
Although there is a line between make a profit and grief the market. But there is a middle ground between price your products very high and just sell a few items and to price your products at a reasonable price and sell a lot.
Home: http://www.hidden-agenda.co.uk
HiD Kills: http://eve.hidden-agenda.co.uk/kill_list.php
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Gryffyn
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:24:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Gryffyn on 08/06/2004 13:27:11
It should be illegal to undersell any item by more than 5% of current market price. Surely some of these huge corporations would protect their markets - with extreme prejudice?
Any person attempting to undersell by more than 5% should get a warning message, and a recommended price.
If anyone fails to comply - they would take take a security status hit / hit to standing with corporation - and then you could put a bounty on their head.
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Arud
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:25:00 -
[8]
then just buy all their products and resell them along with your own products at the price you want
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chillz
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:29:00 -
[9]
Edited by: chillz on 08/06/2004 13:32:52
So they cost 600k to make? And you were selling them at 2M? Now people are selling them for only 80k profit (i.e. a realistic price) and you aren't happy, try talking to some of your previous customers who gave you 1.4M profit per item.
How can moving stock around the universe cost you 80k per item. It's not as if you have to pay for fuel?
It's called market economics.
Oh and nice idea Gryffyn, maybe we should get a sector hit for buying stuff cheap from the market too.
-----------------------------------
A gun and a packet of sandwiches.
"When the going gets weird, the weird turn pro." - Hunter S Thompson
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redi
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:31:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Arud
then just buy all their products and resell them along with your own products at the price you want
lol or just talk to him and merge and you will both profit from it. :D
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HavokTBP: lieing about kills... noobs don't count. |
Falbala
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:35:00 -
[11]
There will always be people who want price war, for various reasons. I am selling berserkers BPCs 1500 runs at 300k. That makes 2k/drone which is a decent price. People are doing price war in the same system than me, some selling 100k, others 150k.
But I didn't change my price. 300k is fair and believe it or not I sold 10 BPCs last week.
Just ignore them or buy their goods if you want as long as your prices are correct you will find buyers. The discounters will be tired before you because they won't make money out of it.
If you want to sell at really high prices then you need to go to less populated regions.
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Melle Brast
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:36:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Melle Brast on 08/06/2004 13:38:47
Originally by: Ruffio Sepico
And exactly how was he ripping someone off?
Well I feel that selling something for a price that is 3.5 times what it costs to build is a rip off yes.
I normally culdn't care less what ppl sell stuff for, If I want it bad enough I'll get the cash to buy it. However Kozak's "I am all so mighty and the rest of you are idiots" attitude doesn't really cut it. Hence my straight forward answer, but a stupid post needs a stupid answer.
Why didn't he contact the other suppliers and try to discuss the matter with them instead? Would propably give a much better result than calling them idiots officially here on the forums. Further, it makes him look quite bad also, from now onwards ppl will now he charges high prices if he can. Not very smart if you ask me, but then again you didn't.
I hope you'll have prosperous and great summer Ruffio.
Fly safe,
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Mr TriX
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:37:00 -
[13]
Its about cost effectiveness, if you dont make enough per item, then it would be better off to put an indy at a veld rock with one mining laser then to run around trying to sell these things. And as he stated the price of tech 2 compents for this type of production is getting scarce driving prices up. So those people selling at low prices will soon start taking a loss at selling them and probably wont even relize it. For a tech 2 item as useful as an 10mn AB II, 80k is hardly any profit even for a mid size corp.
Some of the smaller items that nearly everyone puts on the average ship is getting 200% or more profit margin. So 11.4% profit (80k isk) its not much at all for a tech 2 item which requires more work to produce.
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Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:40:00 -
[14]
WHy produce at all with these profit margins ?
oh wait, there still a lot of producers out there, there must be something good about those profit margins then...
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Mr TriX
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:42:00 -
[15]
LOL Melle Brast
I have to reply to that..
He did contact may people that own the ABII bp. Some of them thought it was a good idea, there there was one or two corps out there the didn't give a sht. So you open your mouth without knowing details.
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Juan Andalusian
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:49:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Arud
then just buy all their products and resell them along with your own products at the price you want
Works on for minerals so why not for tech ii where the market is even smaller.
Just price war them down to an acceptable price and buy their stock out and re-price everything.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:49:00 -
[17]
Ok, you do realize not many markets make 200 to 300 Percent on their products...(video games, Music, Video/DvD are some of the exceptions)....most markets are realistically happy with
20 percent and above cost...(all the cost(S))....
So, your ABII should have been around 750 or 800k.....but you know what? IF people are dumb enought to pay you 2 mil a pop...congrats to you...
Welcome to the Capitalistic American Economy....
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:52:00 -
[18]
Quote:
Why didn't he contact the other suppliers and try to discuss the matter with them instead? Would propably give a much better result than calling them idiots officially here on the forums.
I donŠt know KozakŠs Case - but we are selling Small Shield Booster II and the price-war competitors sell their products by NPC-Corp alts not answering mails or Conversations..
best way to deal with them if you can afford is buy all their stock and resell at your price (as suggested above) especially with rising component prices I consider buying the stock of a competitor a good investment ...
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Kozak
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Posted - 2004.06.08 13:52:00 -
[19]
Well, I stopped producing a long time ago. It's not profitable to make them. But i have quite a few instock from when I was producing. And it's hard to sell them for a profit, any profit. I make more money doing agent missions then hunting down the components to make a few AB's at a time.
My bp has been in research for the past couple months. If anyone wans to buy it, I'll entertain serious offers. It's ME 100 and will be PE 60, being researched to PE 100 (It take a long time to research this bp)
I think the reason that people sell this low, is that they buy the components in bulk and minerals and never take the time to calculate per item cost. So when they sell at 680K, they don't realize they aren't making a profit. And most people keep making them because it's a Tech 2 bp, and the novelty of it drives them to use it.
In the real world, money and time have real value, in EVE they have no value. This is the reason some people sell at little or no profit, they have nothing of value to loose.
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Crayathan
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Posted - 2004.06.08 14:17:00 -
[20]
Edited by: Crayathan on 08/06/2004 14:19:37
I agree with ertai
Easy profit 
Even though I walk through the valley of the shadow of death, I fear no evil |
Kozak
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Posted - 2004.06.08 14:21:00 -
[21]
There's like 6 manufacturers in the same solar system outbidding each other. If I have to buy all their stock, that will just encourage them and break my wallet.
Problem here is they don't realize that they don't make a profit, hence, they will keep selling...
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Phaethon
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Posted - 2004.06.08 14:25:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Phaethon on 08/06/2004 14:28:58
Just buy the finished modules AND the cheap components needed to make them. There are several level's you can compete with them on.
Or buy their product's and move them to other parts of the empire.
If it's only 80k to have someone collect the components and manufacture the parts. Well, let them have their fun.
Or be REALLY mean and see if you can get them to lower their prices by putting one or two modules on the market in their station, for less than they sell at.
WTB. Infifitrator I drones |
Kozak
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Posted - 2004.06.08 14:31:00 -
[23]
That's too much freakin' work.
Anyone want a 10MN Afterburner II BPO - ME 100 / PE 60 
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Camaro
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Posted - 2004.06.08 14:40:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Camaro on 08/06/2004 14:41:42
kozak, i'll take it of u hands. 1 isk :D
Contact me ingame, and i'll c what we can figure out.
Camaro
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Firemonkey
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Posted - 2004.06.08 15:09:00 -
[25]
If you are absolutely positive their profit margins are near zero, buy everything they sell. If you are right they will either go bust or hike their prices up. If you're wrong, they'll probably thank you!
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Calistro
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Posted - 2004.06.08 15:47:00 -
[26]
I suggest you take a look at the real world.
Ryanair are running a campaign where you pay nothing for your flight. The only thing you pay is airport taxes. The same thing is evolving here, people set prices low to make it invalueable for you to produce the products they are using. When you have given up, they will slowly rise the price and gain on the profit. I do agree it's quite silly that they do that, but hell... if it can result in alot of business for them which they can later exploit for a bigger sums, then let them have it their way.
Solution: Buy their products as they hit the market and sell them at your price, you earn money.
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Ertai Vodalion
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Posted - 2004.06.08 15:47:00 -
[27]
IŠll contact you ingame Kozak - IŠm sure we can find a way for you to earn some cash without selling the BPO.
ever heard of Stepstone ?
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Armin Chamberlain
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Posted - 2004.06.08 16:23:00 -
[28]
LOL this is one funny thread, Kozak, you were obviously not made for economics!
Here's a laugh, try placing some buy orders for AB IIs for like 400K and see if your friends sell them! No wait I do that! And then I will undercut you hahahah. |
Marcus Aurelius
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Posted - 2004.06.08 16:39:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Marcus Aurelius on 08/06/2004 16:40:18
Look, it's really not that difficult. The problem is that almost everyone is producing their own stuff in empire space.
Next to that they also rely on selling the mods they produce to god knows whom to make their corp rich.
With 80% of corps in empire into production, the resuslt will be that the market is a buyers market. Undercutting, bad sales and low prices are part of that. It can only change when people start making money other ways, or when people start losing a whole lot mroe mods then they do now.
Only reason why i need to buy stuff is to fit the next ship. What other reasons are there ?
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Kozak
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Posted - 2004.06.08 16:49:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Armin Chamberlain
LOL this is one funny thread, Kozak, you were obviously not made for economics!
Here's a laugh, try placing some buy orders for AB IIs for like 400K and see if your friends sell them! No wait I do that! And then I will undercut you hahahah.
You guys think that because I dont' wanna make measly profits I am "not made for economics"?
I have much better ways of making money. This thread was a rant, I couldn't figure out the reasoning of several people undercutting each other. They can't all be buying each other's products and selling them at the same time. This means some of them aren't making money.
I just have this bp in my hangar and can't believe the state of the market for this item. If you think that if I buy them all and resell them that will fix things, it won't, look at the barely profitable Cruiser market and Battleship market. That's been going on for a year and you still make tiny profits.
But, whatever. It's fun to read what people think.
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