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Will CCP one day fix the joke that is the destroyer class?

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Wa'roun The Scope	Posted - 2008.08.30 04:50:00 - [31] seen a killboard post where a t2 cruiser was insta-popped by a small fleet of destroyers. Join channel: "Eve University" or read here
Prometheus Exenthal Genos Occidere	Posted - 2008.08.30 05:39:00 - [32] The following destroyers would like an apology for someone being so thick headed. -The alpha Thrasher -The 100km Cormorant -The 30km PULSE Coercer -The Beam Coercer -The 125mm Railgun Catalyst That is all. These ships are skill heavy to actually be 'good', but once you have ** skills you will have a ship. Sure you can just get an interdictor, rapier, zealot, or vagabond, but these ships are disposable and cost less than the MWDs that go on said ships. The ONLY interceptor that can kill a properly fit destroyer is the Taranis. That's it. If another kills you, you're doing it wrong. - FRIGANK**
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2008.08.30 09:05:00 - [33] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal The following destroyers would like an apology for someone being so thick headed. -The alpha Thrasher -The 100km Cormorant -The 30km PULSE Coercer -The Beam Coercer -The 125mm Railgun Catalyst That is all. These ships are skill heavy to actually be 'good', but once you have ** skills you will have a ** ship. Sure you can just get an interdictor, rapier, zealot, or vagabond, but these ships are disposable and cost less than the MWDs that go on said ships. The ONLY interceptor that can kill a properly fit destroyer is the Taranis. That's it. If another kills you, you're doing it wrong. This guy is kind of right, Destroyers can be nice ships. but its still an oversized frig. The dps is nice (for a frig) and it can tank a set of warrior II's for... around 55 seconds. I have started flying a cormorant in FW and im begining to love it, being a dictor and heavy dictor pilot i have some nice skills in that area. Most ppl have horrible fittings on their dessies so i just jump into 2 or 3 targets and erase them easy. Now i dont agree with the last part, i killed a coercer in a crow (had mindlink in gang and was overloading scramm) takling at 36km, with enough transversal to barely outtrack it. Very tough fight tho. In any case, with a bit of effort you can fit a tank (which would outtank any frig) and some dps as well.
Lazuran Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.08.30 11:13:00 - [34] Originally by: Soporo All they need to do is lower the CRAZY Sig radius of Destroyers. Indeed. 1-2 more slots would also be good.
orangeFool Gallente University of Caille	Posted - 2008.08.30 11:40:00 - [35] Destroyers were a great way for me to get into the game in level 1 missions. Lots of guns! I have no complaints about training Destroyer to V.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.08.30 12:46:00 - [36] Originally by: masternerdguy Originally by: Trent Nichols Destroyer = salvage ship. CCP just needs to change the name no destroyer is a cheap compramise between a frigate and a cruiser. its a stepping stone That's exactly what they are not and where the idea they suck come from. Buy yeah sig radius could use some reduction, that's about all that's wrong with them. -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2008.08.30 13:12:00 - [37] what about leaving the sig radius as it us but with more PG to fit crazy ass tank and gank?
Jonna Andromedae	Posted - 2008.08.30 13:27:00 - [38] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 29/08/2008 21:41:27 Every single ship class I've been through many times. Every single ship has or can be made to have survivability in a fleet battle or when engaging a cruiser sized ship+. The tech 1 destroyers or the obsolete light interdictor has neither of these. Over countless attempts trying all sorts of wacky setups on it, no amount of money or skills can fix a ship class that is just plain suck. They simply don't have the slots or the ability. - The tech 1 version reaches a ceiling speed limit around a patheric 2km/sec, and the tech 2 version barely much higher. - They have the signal radius of a cruiser. - They are so paper thin they are alpha'd from just about anything going that's bigger then them. OR for the sake of it Give everyone who has Destroyer V and Interdictors V their wasted skill training time back, and make the FAR more useful Heavy Interdictor requirement not dependant on these useless skills. --------------------------------------------------- Yes they are king of any fight that only involves destroyers and lower, but even the tech 2 versions are meh. In a world where everything up to a cruiser can fit an insane speedtank and survive the mob. Whereas anything slow like the battlecruiser and the battleship can fit an insane enough tank to withstand it. The destroyer is the odd one out, the ******ed kid of the family that just goes boom. But I'm sure someone will dredge up a very favourable example of why they are useful somehow because they don't want a threat to something they fly that a destroyer might provide a counter to. Ok I'll shuttup, post your thoughts/one liners/flames plz. T1 Destroyers are awesome interceptor killers.
Aegis Osiris Gallente Demonic Retribution Un-Natural Selection	Posted - 2008.08.30 14:51:00 - [39] I've posted in any number of these threads that what destroyers need, either for a tier 2 dessie or a second tech 2, was a specialist role (other then many small guns). Make them cloak hunters. IF CCP decides to make cloaked ships scannable, make it via a specialty mod, and give destroyers the job. Very 'sub hunter' style. Keep the guns, lower the sig radius, and it'd have a use. ________________________________________________ I went to CAOD and all I got was this lousy brain tumor...
ZenSun	Posted - 2008.08.30 15:18:00 - [40] Originally by: 5pinDizzy Edited by: 5pinDizzy on 29/08/2008 21:41:27 Every single ship class I've been through many times. Every single ship has or can be made to have survivability in a fleet battle or when engaging a cruiser sized ship+. The tech 1 destroyers or the obsolete light interdictor has neither of these. Over countless attempts trying all sorts of wacky setups on it, no amount of money or skills can fix a ship class that is just plain suck. They simply don't have the slots or the ability. - The tech 1 version reaches a ceiling speed limit around a patheric 2km/sec, and the tech 2 version barely much higher. - They have the signal radius of a cruiser. - They are so paper thin they are alpha'd from just about anything going that's bigger then them. OR for the sake of it Give everyone who has Destroyer V and Interdictors V their wasted skill training time back, and make the FAR more useful Heavy Interdictor requirement not dependant on these useless skills. --------------------------------------------------- Yes they are king of any fight that only involves destroyers and lower, but even the tech 2 versions are meh. In a world where everything up to a cruiser can fit an insane speedtank and survive the mob. Whereas anything slow like the battlecruiser and the battleship can fit an insane enough tank to withstand it. The destroyer is the odd one out, the ******ed kid of the family that just goes boom. But I'm sure someone will dredge up a very favourable example of why they are useful somehow because they don't want a threat to something they fly that a destroyer might provide a counter to. Ok I'll shuttup, post your thoughts/one liners/flames plz. That's interesting. I have noticed many destroyer kills lately, they are hefty little things, dish out nice damage on AF's and Frigates... Cheap and used alot in FW :) No need to change it, only the OP attitude.
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2008.09.02 14:51:00 - [41] Originally by: Prometheus Exenthal The following destroyers would like an apology for someone being so thick headed. [...] -The 30km PULSE Coercer [...] I'm very interested in the loadout for that pulse coercer. Is this possible without rigs? I put on some DLP IIs with Scorch, and I can only reach 15+1.5. I'm doing it wrong, help! (o:
Salpad Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:01:00 - [42] Originally by: Euriti imo, there are 3 problems with the class: 1. Speed - this issue is not that big but they're very heavy and they don't go very fast eliminating the advantage of a frig sized ship. 2. Signature radius - It has a way too big signature radius, double the size of frigates! This needs to be reduced. 3. Slot layout. Rifter has more low/med slots than the thrasher. Reduce highs by 2-3 slots and add it as low/midslot and it'll be much more attractive imo. Coupled with more speed and bit lower sig radius (55-60) they'll be to frigs what BCs are to cruisers. Four problems, from a Caldari perspective. No destroyer, Caldari or otherwise, can fit the category of weapons that we prefer to use. Don't underestimate how much that cramps our style. -- Salpad
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.09.02 15:29:00 - [43] I have absolutely no problem killing ceptors in my thrasher. Only a punisher with a massive armor tank, that gets a web on me; or a SB that i don't see, have a remote shot at killing me. AF's are usually too slow. The amarr destroyer is kind of wierd with one mid, but it has a hell of a tank capability. Snipe fit, sensor boost, and armor tank.
H Lecter Gallente The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:42:00 - [44] Destroyers are fun! And they're the cheapest inty killer isk can buy...
Katya Otawan	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:51:00 - [45] Originally by: Salpad Four problems, from a Caldari perspective. No destroyer, Caldari or otherwise, can fit the category of weapons that we prefer to use. Don't underestimate how much that cramps our style. Wut? My cormorant has no problems fitting rails While many caldari neglect gunnery skills, training small railgun spec shouldnt be asked too much if you wanna kill inties in your dessy imo.
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Mercenaries International Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 16:55:00 - [46] Messing around on EFT, with rigs I could get a T2 pulse coercer with about 30km range, with rigs and absolutely no tank. Obviously some of the skills are a little beyond me, but it is EXTREMELY deadly to anything frig/destroyer sized, and would be perfect for fleet ops where you are unlikely to be targeted by anythign other than the cepter u just popped.
Bronson Hughes ADVANCED Combat and Engineering	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:10:00 - [47] Destroyers are very efficient at their job of killing frigates, they just can't stand up to anything bigger than a frigate for any length of time and that limits their usefulness somewhat. The only thing I would change with destroyers would be to change the relationship between frigate -> destroyer -> cruiser to be more like the one for cruiser -> battlecruiser -> battleship. This would mean dropping their signature radius and upping their hitpoints, both by a moderate amount, and adding at least one low or mid slot so that they have as many lows/mids as the tier 3 frigate counterparts. Bounses, fitting, cap, cargo, etc. are all fine. -------------------- "I am hard pressed on my right; my centre is giving way; situation excellent; I am attacking." - Ferdinand Foch at the Battle of the Marne
Megan Maynard Minmatar 17th Minmatar Tactical Wing	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:14:00 - [48] Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson Messing around on EFT, with rigs I could get a T2 pulse coercer with about 30km range, with rigs and absolutely no tank. Obviously some of the skills are a little beyond me, but it is EXTREMELY deadly to anything frig/destroyer sized, and would be perfect for fleet ops where you are unlikely to be targeted by anythign other than the cepter u just popped. Yeah with pulses that is stupid! You need arty's on a thrasher to dream of hitting that far.
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Mercenaries International Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:27:00 - [49] Originally by: Megan Maynard Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson Messing around on EFT, with rigs I could get a T2 pulse coercer with about 30km range, with rigs and absolutely no tank. Obviously some of the skills are a little beyond me, but it is EXTREMELY deadly to anything frig/destroyer sized, and would be perfect for fleet ops where you are unlikely to be targeted by anythign other than the cepter u just popped. Yeah with pulses that is stupid! You need arty's on a thrasher to dream of hitting that far. /me adds the necessary skills to fit this to his list of things to train in the near future.
Number 17 Caldari COLD-Wing	Posted - 2008.09.02 17:29:00 - [50] Originally by: InsanlyEvlPerson Messing around on EFT, with rigs I could get a T2 pulse coercer with about 30km range, with rigs and absolutely no tank. Obviously some of the skills are a little beyond me, but it is EXTREMELY deadly to anything frig/destroyer sized, and would be perfect for fleet ops where you are unlikely to be targeted by anythign other than the cepter u just popped. You obviously lack the experience to know that EVERYBODY loves an easy kill, so destroyer (same as interdictor) will be shot on sight by any cruiser who happens to be at range. The second issue is unless you have inty webbed and scrammed itll probably go away as soon as you 1 volley its shields. Third issue with your super 30km fit all gank no tank, is that a ranis will get in range and blast your arse in about 25 seconds, ya, the inty you was supposed to insta pop, insta popped you. GG. Destroyers dont need a fix, they are perfectly balanced imo. Their only problem is that they have to bail everytime something bigger shows up, but that is normal isnt it? At least thrasher, cormorant and coercer are ok, i feel a little sorry for the catalyst as it is utter crap like its T2 version. I fly dictors as well, and hated them because its either drop bubble and warp, or die. Youll hardly find soloing frigs, except ceptors in null sec, and even so its extremely vulnerable to inties. But i learn to love it in low sec FW as it has given me many satisfaction, never been killed in it, and i even got a T2 flycatcher in it. http://www.caldari.eu-killboard.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=153438
Salpad Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.02 23:33:00 - [51] Originally by: Katya Otawan Originally by: Salpad Four problems, from a Caldari perspective. No destroyer, Caldari or otherwise, can fit the category of weapons that we prefer to use. Don't underestimate how much that cramps our style. Wut? My cormorant has no problems fitting rails While many caldari neglect gunnery skills, training small railgun spec shouldnt be asked too much if you wanna kill inties in your dessy imo. It isn't a question of training for small gunz, but of specializing greatly in missiles. I've got 5/4 for Standard Missiles and 5/4 for Heavy Missiles, and I'm going to get 5/4 for Cruise Missiles eventually as well, and on top of that I have a high level in most of the missile support skillz as well (and in those of them where I don't have a high level, I will rectifiy the situation soon). That's what cramps my style. That I'm not able to fit a destroyer with the category of weapons - that category which requires launcher hardpoints - which I'm very good at using. Lots of Amarr and Gallente and Minmatar characters specialize in guns to the same extent that I specialize in missiles, and the lack of a missile destroyer simply isn't fair.
Gimpb Sturmgrenadier Inc Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.09.02 23:55:00 - [52] Originally by: 5pinDizzy obsolete light interdictor * reading comes to a screeching halt * cursor moves toward quote link I hate to nitpick like that, it doesn't really accomplish anything but I couldn't help myself on that one.
Katya Otawan	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:26:00 - [53] Edited by: Katya Otawan on 03/09/2008 00:29:02 Originally by: Salpad That's what cramps my style. That I'm not able to fit a destroyer with the category of weapons - that category which requires launcher hardpoints - which I'm very good at using. Lots of Amarr and Gallente and Minmatar characters specialize in guns to the same extent that I specialize in missiles, and the lack of a missile destroyer simply isn't fair. If you want missiles, you might take a look at the flycatcher. Apart from that, what is fair if I may ask? Minmatar usually train for guns, missiles and drones as well as shield and armor tanking, is that fair? Amarr are mainly turret users, but sacrilege for example needs a good amount of missile skills, fair? Edit: to put it another way, that is the price of specialization, you are not able to fly all ships effectively but have very good performance in a few.
Salpad Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.03 00:58:00 - [54] Originally by: Katya Otawan Edited by: Katya Otawan on 03/09/2008 00:29:02 If you want missiles, you might take a look at the flycatcher. Apart from that, what is fair if I may ask? Minmatar usually train for guns, missiles and drones as well as shield and armor tanking, is that fair? Amarr are mainly turret users, but sacrilege for example needs a good amount of missile skills, fair? Edit: to put it another way, that is the price of specialization, you are not able to fly all ships effectively but have very good performance in a few. I am looking at the Flycatcher. Hungrily. But keep in mind, I'm not asking to be able to fly all ships effectively. I'm merely asking to be able to have at least one ship in each ship class that I can fly effectively, and the ship class of tech 1 destroyer is where the hole is. There is no destroyer that I can fly effectively, and I'm upset and unhappy about that. All other tech 1 ship classes offer both gun and missile versions. Destroyers are the only exception. There's no destroyer for me.
Katya Otawan	Posted - 2008.09.03 02:54:00 - [55] Edited by: Katya Otawan on 03/09/2008 02:55:40 Originally by: Salpad I'm merely asking to be able to have at least one ship in each ship class that I can fly effectively, and the ship class of tech 1 destroyer is where the hole is. There is no destroyer that I can fly effectively, and I'm upset and unhappy about that. All other tech 1 ship classes offer both gun and missile versions. Destroyers are the only exception. There's no destroyer for me. Well, there is only one ship in the t1 destroyer class, and it happens to be a gunship for all races. While I can understand you dont like it being fully missile specced, I can not see the problem here. It needs turrets, train them or dont fly it (just train it as basic for interdictors then and have fun with the flycatcher). Btw I really like the cormorant, there are not many good gunships for caldari and having nothing except missiles on everything would be boring as hell. If anything the gallente types are the crappy ones (both t1 and t2), cormorant is fine.
Battlecheese Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.03 07:51:00 - [56] Originally by: Salpad I'm merely asking to be able to have at least one ship in each ship class that I can fly effectively, and the ship class of tech 1 destroyer is where the hole is. There is no destroyer that I can fly effectively, and I'm upset and unhappy about that. All other tech 1 ship classes offer both gun and missile versions. Destroyers are the only exception. There's no destroyer for me. So, you would rather that the poor rail-users get shafted? The jump from Merlin -> Moa is a pretty big/expensive one. Like the minmatar, the caldari have good reasons to train up both missiles and turrets. It's just a fact. Deal with it, and adjust your training priorities.
Bado Sten Minmatar Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.09.03 12:27:00 - [57] I have 50+ kills in Trasher, most solo. You must be doing something wrong.. That's against ceptors, dictors, some cruisers, frigates, and it pwns Arazus. Ofc. I've lost a lot as well, but it's a cheap ship. Fit 7 150mm AC II, rocket launcher in highs T1 mwd, disruptor, web DCU I, with gyro I or something else. MWD in, scram/web, orbit at 1500m with mwd on. The idea is to gank him as quick as possible, but the DCU will hopefully let you survive until he wise up. Oh, and I swear I've got extra kills because "it's just a destroyer". Some go "wtf. is he charging me?" for 2-3 seconds, and that helps -- Do you need research services for your blueprints? We have available slots in Metropolis region. Look up my bio for info!
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.03 12:54:00 - [58] Originally by: Salpad Four problems, from a Caldari perspective. No destroyer, Caldari or otherwise, can fit the category of weapons that we prefer to use. Don't underestimate how much that cramps our style. OMG that is no excuse, it takes what 5 days to get t2 guns on a destoyer? Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Originally by: Sherrif Jones ding ding! Wrangler: Hello and w- ding ding! Wrangler: Damn nanowhiners...goes back to reading
Imaos	Posted - 2008.09.03 12:56:00 - [59] Originally by: Battlecheese Originally by: Salpad I'm merely asking to be able to have at least one ship in each ship class that I can fly effectively, and the ship class of tech 1 destroyer is where the hole is. There is no destroyer that I can fly effectively, and I'm upset and unhappy about that. All other tech 1 ship classes offer both gun and missile versions. Destroyers are the only exception. There's no destroyer for me. So, you would rather that the poor rail-users get shafted? The jump from Merlin -> Moa is a pretty big/expensive one. Like the minmatar, the caldari have good reasons to train up both missiles and turrets. It's just a fact. Deal with it, and adjust your training priorities. The bigger reason is a missile destroyer can't fullfill its role. Lock and Pop would become lock, wait and maybe pop. Other 2 points mentioned in this thread: 1) A destroyer only lives 55secs under a flight (5) of warriorIIs. - Guess how long the flight of warriors last under dessie fire. They are also a nice asset to dispose drones fast. 2) "The second issue is unless you have inty webbed and scrammed itll probably go away as soon as you 1 volley its shields. Third issue with your super 30km fit all gank no tank, is that a ranis will get in range and blast your arse in about 25 seconds, ya, the inty you was supposed to insta pop, insta popped you. GG." - You need 25secs to pop a dessie. The not even optimal fitted (more tracking than damage, no tank) coercer downs a DCU II blasteranis in an average of 14s. (with my skills). Problem with the coercer: no point. - Even if the inty warps away you just removed a tackler from the fight. Imaos ------------------------------------------ Originally by: NoNah My friend, this is EVE, as it's a space oriented game, they couldn't have trolls. We have Caldari.

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