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Can someone give me a good reason to fly a Nighthawk?

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Mystic Pete	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:19:00 - [1] In about a week, maybe two I'll be able to fly command ships \o/ So off I went to EFT to see what fun Nighthawk setups I could find. Disapointed and underwhelmed don't do it justice. I currently fly a Drake (full passive omnitank with link) and can tank pretty well. I can solo level 4's without a problem. I assume it's not asking too much for the Nighthawk to be better than my Drake? By better I mean faster recharge or better resists, or more base shield, more DPS etc. After messing around with various fittings I found a few problems; 1. I was having to use the extra low slot the NH has to fit a RCU2 to make up for the low grid. 2. Also having one less rig slot meant that the shield recharge was was less then the Drake unless I useded another mid for a recharger. 3. Having one less mid and wanting to use another mid for a recharger means less space for hardeners, or if you use hardeners less space for rechargers. With a bit of messing around I could find a fit or two that tanked about the same as a Drake but with 20-70ish extra dps depending on fit. I also tryed a few active tank fits but was as underwhelmed by those results as well, although I claim no experise in active tanking so feel free to suggest something I'm missing. Avoiding the fact that the Nighthawk clearly needs more grid, as do most of the battlecruisers and command ships; at least if they want to fit links, which there allegedly designed for. Also perhaps warfare links need a grid reduction? The Point. I want to love this ship. I want it to be a good upgrade, especially since it's uninsurable and costs the price of two fully fitted and rigged Drakes. Am I missing something? Please if you have a good Nighthawk fit can you share it with me? I'll be mainly using it for mission running for now, and my one rule here is that it has to be able to run a link. That shouldn't be too much to ask, it is a command ship the things are supposed to run links right? Any constructive comments appreciated. Thank you in advance.
Kulmid The Elear FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:27:00 - [2] I don't do missions but here's a fit I whipped up real quick, dunno how it compares to a drake or if it could even tank a mission, but I'm sure it easily could if you just switched up to mission specific hardeners. [Nighthawk, Mission] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I I'll let you load it into EFT to see the stats as I'm too lazy to post them. You would think CCP would have added things like, "Amarr", "CCP", "Microwarpdrive", etc. to their forum dictionary.
Mystic Pete	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:32:00 - [3] Let me reiterate as I was a bit guilty of putting up a wall of text. I want a working fit that can run a link. That means that 'Empty high slot' = 200 grid + 50 CPU for a link.
Kulmid The Elear FOUNDATI0N	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:37:00 - [4] Edited by: Kulmid on 05/09/2008 05:38:04 may I ask why? Edit: You are asking this ship to do too much imo You would think CCP would have added things like, "Amarr", "CCP", "Microwarpdrive", etc. to their forum dictionary.
DrunkMiner Caldari Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.09.05 05:46:00 - [5] I currently fly a nighthawk and tbh we ya a link is useless on it, if u wanna fun links get a vulture. I use my nighthawk to run level 4 missions, its less intensive than a raven to manage and since most people on the calari side use heavys for other ships s an easy missioning upgrade that imo is well worth it.
Lady Leila	Posted - 2008.09.05 06:04:00 - [6] Good reason : buy one from me so i can get some isk :) There is no other reason to buy this crap ship.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.05 07:16:00 - [7] Biggest advantage of the Nighthawk over the Drake, at least when running Missions, is it's Damage output. Yes you can solo L4 missions in a Drake, but it'l take forever. Nighthawk on the other hand can get DPS on par with a Cruise Raven and still sport a beefy tank, if you're willing to spend the ISK. If not, you can passive tank it for fairly good results still. If I were going to passivetank, I would: HML II x6 LSE II LSE II Invul II Invul II Photon II BCS II x2 SPR II x3 Purger I x2 which gives you way better damage output than a Drake, and a decent enough tank, albeit nothing particually amazing. I personally run L4s solo with a Nighthawk and love it to bits, although I do spend a bit of ISK doing it. Much rather it over a CNR anyway. Just don't try to PvP with it... - Infectious -
John Hailey	Posted - 2008.09.05 07:37:00 - [8] Nighthawk (CS level 4, 60/40 kin/therm damage profile) Drake The nighthawk is 16 - 21% better since you're tanking more than you need to anyway and all that's really left to matter is your dps.
Wet Ferret	Posted - 2008.09.05 08:00:00 - [9] Originally by: Rawr Cristina Biggest advantage of the Nighthawk over the Drake, at least when running Missions, is it's Damage output. Yes you can solo L4 missions in a Drake, but it'l take forever. Nighthawk on the other hand can get DPS on par with a Cruise Raven and still sport a beefy tank, if you're willing to spend the ISK. If not, you can passive tank it for fairly good results still. If I were going to passivetank, I would: HML II x6 LSE II LSE II Invul II Invul II Photon II BCS II x2 SPR II x3 Purger I x2 which gives you way better damage output than a Drake, and a decent enough tank, albeit nothing particually amazing. I personally run L4s solo with a Nighthawk and love it to bits, although I do spend a bit of ISK doing it. Much rather it over a CNR anyway. Just don't try to PvP with it... That's some nice resists... but does it permarun? Totally off-topic: is your ship name the God mode code from DOOM? But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
Rawr Cristina Caldari Omerta Syndicate	Posted - 2008.09.05 08:08:00 - [10] Originally by: Wet Ferret That's some nice resists... but does it permarun? It permaruns if I swap the BCS II for another Flux Coil or even a PDS, but still runs for a solid 10 minutes or so without it (more than enough time to lower the odds). The only time I've been thankful for a Perma-run setup however is when I fell asleep mid-mission... Quote: Totally off-topic: is your ship name the God mode code from DOOM? Mayyyyybeee - Infectious -
Aioa Planetary Assault Systems	Posted - 2008.09.05 08:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Rawr Cristina spend a bit of ISK doing it. mm, I've got an almost identical fit one to this. Pricy but really nice. The dual-pithi small booster version is a nice cheap alternative though. For the OP: Heavy Missile Launcher II x 6 Siege Warfare Link - Shield Harmonizing or w/ever Pithi B-Type Small Shield Booster x 2 Invulnerability Field II x 2 Photon Scattering Field II Ballistic Control System II x 3 Power Diagnostic System II Damage Control II Capacitor Control Circuit I x 2 Runs permanently with energy skils at 5/shield comp 4 (must finish that one sometime...) --
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:04:00 - [12] Originally by: DrunkMiner I currently fly a nighthawk and tbh we ya a link is useless on it, if u wanna fun links get a vulture. I use my nighthawk to run level 4 missions, its less intensive than a raven to manage and since most people on the calari side use heavys for other ships s an easy missioning upgrade that imo is well worth it. ^this^ The NH is an excellent mission running ship if you're willing to trade speed (ie;isk/hour) for a more relaxing experience. It is ideal for people that don't want or can't be tied to the keyboard for the entire mission. An NH lets you get up and do other stuff any time you want and yet if you do keep full control you will earn money about as fast as a standard Raven. But for PvP? Forget it. It fails big time at it's intended role (I suspect CCP know this and don't care) and for the cost you might as well go for the Drake. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Lubomir Penev interimo	Posted - 2008.09.05 09:23:00 - [13] There is more to life than passive shield tanking... You can do a setup with permarunning AB+Large booster and 3 BCS. Enough tank (not good, but enough) and very nice damage output. AB allow to speed tank some damage and make for way faster travel between gates. [Nighthawk, Serpentis Gurista] Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Capacitor Flux Coil II Capacitor Flux Coil II 10MN Afterburner II Large Shield Booster II Heat Dissipation Field II Ballistic Deflection Field II Cap Recharger II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile 150mm Railgun II, Antimatter Charge S Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hornet II x5 -- I'm done whining about AFs, it looks like they are making them right \o/
Akita T Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2008.09.05 12:09:00 - [14] Edited by: Akita T on 05/09/2008 12:11:56 Originally by: Mystic Pete I assume it's not asking too much for the Nighthawk to be better than my Drake? By better I mean faster recharge or better resists, or more base shield, more DPS etc. Yes, you ARE asking for too much. The advantage of the NH is that it puts out more DPS... while tanking pretty much on par, or even worse than a Drake (depends on exact fit and incoming damage). The tank on Drake is usually more than overkill already (come ON, you're out-tanking a Raven easily for almost no cost, ferchrissakes), and the only thing lacking is damage. Not that the NH would have much more of it, but it's an improvement nevertheless. Originally by: Mystic Pete Let me reiterate as I was a bit guilty of putting up a wall of text. I want a working fit that can run a link. See countless topics in the appropriate subforums about just how badly the NH needs some serious extra grid. _ SHOPS \|\| Mission rewards revamp \|\| better nanofix
Brayiel The Double Cross	Posted - 2008.09.05 12:15:00 - [15] I use : 6 X HML II 1 X 10mn AB II 2 X LSE II 2 X Rat specific active II's 2 X SPRII 3 X BCU II 2 X Purger I 5% shield recharge hardwire 5% shield capacity hardwire 15% siege warfare mindlink (fleet with an alt) Gives around 15,000 shields 450m/s + perma run. On some missions I drop the AB for a shield recharger or another hardener and the BCU II for another SPRII. But I prefer the damage output and speed to stay relatively safe.
Mystic Pete	Posted - 2008.09.05 17:53:00 - [16] Thanks for all the feedback. I really would like to get a link on there but understand that I'm probably not doing myself any favours by doing so. I've just spent a month training for a mindlink so you can understand why I want to use a link. By the looks of it I need to move away from the 'Fit it like a tech2 Drake' concept and try to work out how best to fit it as a Nighthawk. As a footnote; I assume CCP have been made aware of various CS and BC that could do with mroe grid. Has there been any indication that this could be fixed at any point? Also these ships wouldn't have as bad fitting problems if warfare links had less fitting requirements, seeing as only 16 non-capital ships can fit them anyway. Anyone know if this has ben raised or responded to?
Mystic Pete	Posted - 2008.09.06 16:57:00 - [17] Has anyone got a good active fit then? (Slight shameless bump)
Eternum Praetorian Tupperware Party	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:53:00 - [18] I have wanted the Nighthawk for a long time . . . and have picked many a brain to find a reason to fly one here is what I have found on the subject. Begin wall of text: For PVE: NH is simply slow at lv 4 missions even though it can tank everything. For PVP 1.) A passive Drake does have an awesome tank...that is unless its getting hit with EM. Then allot of the that tends to go out the window. The NH has the same Achilies heel, and that makes me uncomfortable. 2.) I have never been able to find a fit that wasn't out done by other CS in either tank or DPS for the NH. 3.) It doesn't armor tank. So mids require MWD, Scram, (minimum) and so slots are taken from the get go from its passive tank. Which honestly blows... SO I too and very underwhelmed with one of the coolest looking ships on the board sorry . . . EDIT: One wrathed dubious reason might be the fact the NH has a precision bonus. When Nanos go out the window, that might make it much more dangerous. But taking in account cost VS a Drake? I cannot say...
cytomatrix Caldari Carebear Killers Inc. Anarchy.	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:57:00 - [19] Missions! Nuff said. Nothing tears through lvl4 missions like a Nighthawk(ignoring tech2 and faction bs). ______________________________________________________________
demonfurbie Minmatar Covert-Nexus White Core	Posted - 2008.09.06 18:03:00 - [20] if ya really wanna spend some isk get 6 navy heavy launchers
Karin Krane	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:04:00 - [21] Originally by: Mystic Pete Has anyone got a good active fit then? (Slight shameless bump) See the dual Pithi B-type small shield booster post. That can out tank the passive setups when setup right
Dykemaster	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:34:00 - [22] nope
FT Diomedes Gallente Ductus Exemplo	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:51:00 - [23] A Nighthawk with 2x CN BCUs and 6x CN HMLs puts out some excellent DPS for missions with lots of cruisers. ------------ Improvize. Adapt. Overcome.
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.06 21:19:00 - [24] Edited by: Andrue on 06/09/2008 21:20:31 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian I have wanted the Nighthawk for a long time . . . and have picked many a brain to find a reason to fly one here is what I have found on the subject. Begin wall of text: For PVE: NH is simply slow at lv 4 missions even though it can tank everything. It isn't much slower than a CNR or Golem. Somewhat faster than a standard Raven. Quote: 2.) I have never been able to find a fit that wasn't out done by other CS in either tank or DPS for the NH. DPS, yah but the tank is the best of any CS..and without compromising DPS. -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.
Myra2007 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.06 21:32:00 - [25] Mind you complete eft whoring incoming as i don't fly the nighthawk. But i am bored. I came up with: 6 x Caldari Navy HML (powergrid requirements of t1 launcher) 1 x warfare link 1 x photon 2 2 x invul 2 2 x lse 2 3 x bcu t2, 1 x spr t2, 1 x pdu t2 2 x purger Needs 1 or 3% pg implant. Does more dps then comparable drake and tanks about the same. Not sure how your drake tanks so much better? Don't forget the shield recharge alone is not relevant. You need to figure in resistances. This nh tanks 400+dps against a uniform damage profile. Pretty good considering for the most missions you can improve the tanked dps considerably by using the respective hardeners instead of invuls. It's cap stable too. Ad hoc i wasn't able to setup a drake that has better tank + dps and warfare link. But its pretty close i guess. On another note: why a nighthawk/drake? (Just out of curiosity. I have trouble seeing these ships outperform a raven on any but a few missions (the ones which have less reward to start with, i.e. few bs). As for the link do you have a salvage alt or a dps alt in your mission? Because iirc you need to be ganged up with another gangmate undocked in system for the links to have any effect. Don't forget to set yourself squad leader and booster then also.
Mr Ignitious Gallente R.E.C.O.N.	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:56:00 - [26] The real reason that substantiates purchasing it: It is SOOOOO damn sexy, however impractical (unless you have isk)
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:42:00 - [27] Originally by: Kulmid I don't do missions but here's a fit I whipped up real quick, dunno how it compares to a drake or if it could even tank a mission, but I'm sure it easily could if you just switched up to mission specific hardeners. [Nighthawk, Mission] Shield Power Relay II Shield Power Relay II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Ballistic Control System II Photon Scattering Field II Invulnerability Field II Invulnerability Field II Large Shield Extender II Large Shield Extender II Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile Heavy Missile Launcher II, Scourge Heavy Missile [empty high slot] Core Defence Field Purger I Core Defence Field Purger I I'll let you load it into EFT to see the stats as I'm too lazy to post them. ^this for pvp. Tho if you one day want to take that same nighthawk out for pvp id fit extender rigs over purgers, they are better for pvp and youll still peramtank in pve, just means u dont have to remove + replace the rigs hehe Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Please resize signature to the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
BiggestT Caldari Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.09.06 23:45:00 - [28] Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 06/09/2008 21:20:31 Originally by: Eternum Praetorian I have wanted the Nighthawk for a long time . . . and have picked many a brain to find a reason to fly one here is what I have found on the subject. Begin wall of text: For PVE: NH is simply slow at lv 4 missions even though it can tank everything. It isn't much slower than a CNR or Golem. Somewhat faster than a standard Raven It will outdo a raven in a angel/guristas/serpentis etc mission but i reckon the raven will just trump it on sanshas+raiders missions..(kin dmg bonus not so useful) Proudly annoying FC's since 2007 Please resize signature to the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
Glarion Garnier Federal Defence Union	Posted - 2008.09.07 09:12:00 - [29] When doing mission running the cost of the setup should not be a biggie for anyone at high sec. I recomend Dread Guristas Invu to the setup. Works wonders. _________________________________ -be vary of the men behind the curtain-
Andrue Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.07 10:19:00 - [30] Edited by: Andrue on 07/09/2008 10:20:10 Originally by: BiggestT Originally by: Andrue Edited by: Andrue on 06/09/2008 21:20:31 [A Nighthawk] isn't much slower than a CNR or Golem. Somewhat faster than a standard Raven It will outdo a raven in a angel/guristas/serpentis etc mission but i reckon the raven will just trump it on sanshas+raiders missions..(kin dmg bonus not so useful) Yeah, you could be right on that. I keep meaning to experiment (I can fly just about anything that's allowed in Empire) but tbh the NH is just so damn' flexible. You don't need any other ship for missions unless you want an extra 10% per hour (a finger in the air guess) earning increase. I've thought about getting another Golem (I use my current one just for salvaging) but it would take going on two years to recoup the investment. Not saying I wouldn't still be here in two years but hey - what's the point? -- (Sarcastic mission running veteran, 4+ years) [Brackley, UK] My budgie can say "ploppy bottom". You have been warned.

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