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Nicolai Xperte
Smoking Hillbillys
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 23:34:00 -
[1] - Quote
Have been searching high and low for definitive answer to this question via spread sheets/tools but can't seem to find any. Any help would be greatly appreciated. I don't always bring out my Absolution.
But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol. |

Tay Silvermoon
Infinite Improbability Inc Mordus Angels
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.25 23:37:00 -
[2] - Quote
There is no definitive answer as all determinations vary on a daily basis. What t1 ships? How much wastage on the build? Current prices of the minerals/finished product at the hubs? in low sec/0.0 (if you are willing to try to get higher prices). |

Rengerel en Distel
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
19
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 01:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Was that a question? Looked like a statement.
Don't assume bad intent, when stupidity is the much more likely cause. |

Nicolai Xperte
Smoking Hillbillys
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 02:06:00 -
[4] - Quote
The question is in the title I don't always bring out my Absolution.
But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol. |

Tau Cabalander
Retirement Retreat Working Stiffs
561
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 02:22:00 -
[5] - Quote
Nicolai Xperte wrote:The question is in the title Well I'm confused. "T1 Ship building v Mineral profitability" isn't a question. It might make a half-decent title for a chart though. |

Styth spiting
Forged of Fire
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 05:00:00 -
[6] - Quote
Checkout the program isk per hour. It pulls your skills / api data and market data from jita. You can add all your BPO's / PBC's and set their ME / PE, etc.
Once you have all the data setup it will show you info on how much minerals / items are required to create the item, time, costs (mins, stations, etc) and will show you how much profit you will make based on market prices - time - other costs
This should give you a good general overview of what the price of minerals for a T1 ship will cost (based on jita prices) vs how much you can sell that ship for (in Jita) including all the extra costs (station usages, and time, etc)
Obviously you should just use it as a general guide and buy/sell the items where they are high/low, not just Jita, but it should give you a |

Suni Khan
Cyclone Research State Of Union Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 15:39:00 -
[7] - Quote
take jita as a guidline though.
If you can sell it in jita for a profit thats good. And sell wereever you feel fomfy.
If you cant sell it in jita with a prifot (making a loss) your better off buying up the items and then ship them to wereever you want to sell them. But then your not manufacturing but your trading. |

Darrow Hill
Vodka and Vice
51
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 16:47:00 -
[8] - Quote
I like this program, and use it quite often.
|

Plyn
Random Jedi Industries KRYSIS.
46
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
The ship construction market in highsec is one of near perfect competition, the only thing giving anyone an advantage is the number of pos'es they have available. The market is pretty saturated up there, so you can expect the ship costs to closely mirror the mineral value
In order to make real ISK off of ship construction you will need to transport your goods to an area of space where the market is less saturated. This means lowsec and NPC nullsec. Player owned nullsec will have lots of ships for sale transported there by the owning alliance and their indy corps. Ships pop constantly in low and npc null, meaning you can charge a slight premium due to the higher demand, as well as people not wanting to fly too far to reship
Even then, transporting the goods in question is likely to eat all or the majority of the added profit margin for the new area. This is one of the things I hate the most about industry in the game. Too much competition. Come2Nullsec |

Skorpynekomimi
Omega Vector
155
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 17:23:00 -
[10] - Quote
Very slim margins, saturated market, high capital investment. |

Issler Dainze
Tadakastu-Obata Corporation The Honda Accord
1310
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 19:11:00 -
[11] - Quote
We have a huge library of BPOs that we've completely researched and there isn't much margin in T1 ships. In fact it is not unusual for us to find ships selling bellow our costs.
So we have to be pretty agile, monitor the ship markets and build based on frequent calculations of profits. Now on the T2 side, there is more meat on the bone. We do pretty well with some T2 ships.
I can't say its not worth the effort to build T1 but be careful that you are watching your costs and the market constantly.
Issler |

Kirith Vespira
Border Zone Excursions
11
|
Posted - 2012.03.26 23:15:00 -
[12] - Quote
Been playing Eve for more years than I care to admit across different toons, and it still never ceases to amaze me how people expect to have complex answers ("What sells best?") just handed to them.
Here's a tip: learn what the hell you're doing, or don't do it. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
34
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 01:41:00 -
[13] - Quote
It depends on what capital you are working with, and your login frequency. IMO the spread on hulls if you have a selection of BPOs is usually better than the spread on mins, and hull orders usually start just slightly higher than equivalent mins orders, but you expose yourself to manufacturing delay reducing the number of times you can work your capital through, and bpc's eat secretly at your spreads, and BPO has opportunity cost in reducing your capital available for working in the market
If you have 20mil, then its better to trade, as your orders will fill quickly, and you can work the mins with the largest spreads, and you can run your full capital through the market multiple times per session for decent compound effect
I am currently running 1bil for mineral and stock, and some 2 bil in BPOs (recovering from an acquisition). I'll be running 2 bil BPO and 2 bil working capital when I sell some stuff and work the capital through a few times. ie on my current plan I'd have to acquire 4bil in difficult to acquire mins per session to work that capital through as a trader, or 2 bil of mixed minerals including predominately easy to acquire mins as a manufacturer - ie I am much more likely to actually succeed in working a decent amount of my capital manufacturing.
if the market moves against you really badly (ie your specific hulls tank and mins go nuts), then YOU REPROCESS OR WAIT, you don't sell hulls at below current minerals price
|

Double Blade
BlackWing Cartel
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 03:05:00 -
[14] - Quote
The empire market is tricky, but it's still possible to make a decent profit. It really doesn't matter what you're manufacturing. You just have to find ways to reduce your costs.
For example, when my corp holds mining ops, we take 25%-50% of the minerals and send them straight to the corp inventory. The rest is used to pay the members of the op at market prices. We sell the excess minerals to cover the costs of the rare mins. This way, we reduce our costs and find a decent profit margin. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
34
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 04:14:00 -
[15] - Quote
Double Blade wrote:The empire market is tricky, but it's still possible to make a decent profit. It really doesn't matter what you're manufacturing. You just have to find ways to reduce your costs.
For example, when my corp holds mining ops, we take 25%-50% of the minerals and send them straight to the corp inventory. The rest is used to pay the members of the op at market prices. We sell the excess minerals to cover the costs of the rare mins. This way, we reduce our costs and find a decent profit margin.
Its essentially scamming the members, and particularly your most productive members - tends to chase out the people that can do maths when the unit of time is involved, and thus bias your memberbase towards the dumb.
Also if you are creaming 25% and making stuff that requires the creamed 25% as the "profit" margin, you might as well just sell the mins.
|

Nicolai Xperte
Smoking Hillbillys
5
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 11:11:00 -
[16] - Quote
Kirith Vespira wrote:Been playing Eve for more years than I care to admit across different toons, and it still never ceases to amaze me how people expect to have complex answers ("What sells best?") just handed to them.
Here's a tip: learn what the hell you're doing, or don't do it.
I wasn't asking "what sells best" I am simply asking if the tools (updated) exist that can compare the actual mineral value vs the constructed item. Since your expertise is beyond me I will never understand so thus I shouldn't ask questions.
To the actual replies that are on topic thank you all for your input and I will continue researching options and different spreadsheets. I don't always bring out my Absolution.
But when I do it makes the Blue's rage, lol. |

RaTTuS
BIG Gentlemen's Agreement
183
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 11:33:00 -
[17] - Quote
personally I'd get to grips with Google docs, find the ME calculation formula bung some figures in and see what comes out. what this does is enable you to understand :- ME levels , opportunity costs, why minerals I mine a re not free, skills with google docs - this is very useful for a lot of things in eve and the RL, you can download nicely made sheets / programs etc but the one you understand best is the one you make yourself.
http://eveboard.com/ub/419190933-134.png
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Tauranon
Weeesearch
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 12:50:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nicolai Xperte wrote:Kirith Vespira wrote:Been playing Eve for more years than I care to admit across different toons, and it still never ceases to amaze me how people expect to have complex answers ("What sells best?") just handed to them.
Here's a tip: learn what the hell you're doing, or don't do it. I wasn't asking "what sells best" I am simply asking if the tools (updated) exist that can compare the actual mineral value vs the constructed item. Since your expertise is beyond me I will never understand so thus I shouldn't ask questions. To the actual replies that are on topic thank you all for your input and I will continue researching options and different spreadsheets.
I made a spreadsheet of my own for that - as i know the ME/PE on my own BPs, and I know what I'll pay for mins today. it does not need to implement the ME or PE algorithm. All I'm really interested in is unit cost and a total of each mins to order today, totalled up over all the BPs.
http://zofu.no-ip.de/bpo gives you some usable estimates if you are planning research or intending to use bought bpc's and chase items that have high margins like today - ie just in time hunting spikes.
http://www.eve-cost.eu/calculator can also do estimates for production runs. has a cart thingie to total up your mins orders. I don't use it. there are other tools.
|

Tobiaz
Spacerats
75
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 12:54:00 -
[19] - Quote
Plyn wrote:The ship construction market in highsec is one of near perfect competition, the only thing giving anyone an advantage is the number of pos'es they have available. The market is pretty saturated up there, so you can expect the ship costs to closely mirror the mineral value
In order to make real ISK off of ship construction you will need to transport your goods to an area of space where the market is less saturated. This means lowsec and NPC nullsec. Player owned nullsec will have lots of ships for sale transported there by the owning alliance and their indy corps. Ships pop constantly in low and npc null, meaning you can charge a slight premium due to the higher demand, as well as people not wanting to fly too far to reship
Even then, transporting the goods in question is likely to eat all or the majority of the added profit margin for the new area. This is one of the things I hate the most about industry in the game. Too much competition.
Main reason for that is empire being too 'small'. There are still some highway gates like Niarja-Kapuutenen and the aren't many low-sec 'moats' separating big chunks of empire. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |

Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.27 23:55:00 -
[20] - Quote
I have to say that at least around Jita, I have yet to view a ship worth making. Many are well below the cost of their mats, and most of the rest simply take too long for their level of profit. |

Rutherford Rainman
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 03:40:00 -
[21] - Quote
It depends on how high your expectations are, with perfect skills and researched BPOs I would guess you could make a comfortable living making ships. Thing is if you have perfect skills and researched BPOs you could do much better than most T1 ships have to offer. If you look at it, ships are a fairly safe bet due to the near constant consumption of ships, but because of this most also have razor thin margins. Also a good thing to consider is transportation, without a freighter or an Itty IV you might have trouble getting your products around. |

Page Starcaster
Society of lost Souls
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 17:56:00 -
[22] - Quote
Aurel Svenson wrote:I have to say that at least around Jita, I have yet to view a ship worth making. Many are well below the cost of their mats, and most of the rest simply take too long for their level of profit.
Although it is true it is hard to find a ship worth making in Jita, It is absolutely not true that there are ships in Jita for sale below the cost of there mats. Buy orders maybe, but no sell orders. A ship sold below the cost of mats means that someone with perfect reprocessing skills like my main could buy those ships and reprocess them at a profit. I have a spreadsheet that auto calculates the mineral value of the most common T1 ships and compares to Jita sell orders for that ship. If any ships become profitable to reprocess, than they get flagged. Many do this, and any time a sell order gets posted with even a slight profit from reprocessing it, it is gone in seconds
If you are trying to build ships by buying all minerals from Jita sell orders than yes, Sometimes the cost of mats is higher or equal to the lowest sell order. but still above the value of the minerals when reprocessed. But generally they are just slightly above. If you source your minerals elsewhere or post buy orders for less than the lowest sell order you can increase your profit margin. This is however trade profit not manufacturing profit. With profit margins so tight in Jita on both manufacturing and trading you can generally make a decent profit by combining them. I.E. some trade profit gain from trading to get cheaper mats, and some manufacturing profit from building the ship. for this to work you need really good manufacturing skills, trading skills, and perfect BPO's
With perfect skills and perfect BPO you can make 2-5% manufacturing profit. By sourcing you mats and using buy orders rather than buying from sell orders you can make an extra 5-10% trade profit giving you up to 15% profit on the total project. So say a battleship sells for about 100 mil you can make up to 15 mil profit. To make loads of isk you need to produce loads of ships, at least 100 ships to make 1.5 bil profit. That is a load of logistics to generate that amount of production and keep supplied with mats. But there are players who do it and enjoy it
There are far easier ways to make 1.5 bil isk. If you really want to enjoy your time in EVE, do what you enjoy doing, and find a way to make a profit while doing it. |

Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.28 18:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Economics says that the value of minerals is what you can get selling them on the market. Since you can move minerals by sell orders reasonably quickly the most relevant number is the sell price of minerals.
And reprocessing won't do, because the BPC (I assume this to be the most common source of ships and I treat that as a material cost) is lost forever. |

Ave Volta
Black Frog Logistics Red-Frog
20
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 03:18:00 -
[24] - Quote
I'll just say that I've been making a killing off of T1 hulls in general the last 6 months or so.
Black Frog Logistics - Lowsec/Nullsec Logistics Services. Join ingame channel 'Black Frog' for more info.
|

Suni Khan
Cyclone Research State Of Union Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:14:00 -
[25] - Quote
1 bil bpo is an investment you dont need to make it back. Only the time spent researching the thing. You can sell it off later for 1bil or even a bit higher.
You just need the initial capital. That being said, take a look at the cruiser market. |

Tauranon
Weeesearch
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Page Starcaster wrote:
With perfect skills and perfect BPO you can make 2-5% manufacturing profit. By sourcing you mats and using buy orders rather than buying from sell orders you can make an extra 5-10% trade profit giving you up to 15% profit on the total project. So say a battleship sells for about 100 mil you can make up to 15 mil profit. To make loads of isk you need to produce loads of ships, at least 100 ships to make 1.5 bil profit. That is a load of logistics to generate that amount of production and keep supplied with mats. But there are players who do it and enjoy i
This analysis depends on your capital amount, and your login length/frequency, and your willingness to trade outside of minerals and finished t1 objects. ie tritanium with a 1% spread is terrible for me to trade - after fees I would see 0.4% Zydrine at times can yield 30%, but I have too much capital, and not enough time/desire to stay in-region and 0.01, so I cannot apply my whole capital base to zydrine
A moderate amount of zydrine mixed into great chunks of pyerite and tritanium can absorb my entire capital base, is unlikely to move grossly against my position (ie zydrine can move 10% at both ends of the spread pretty quick, but trit won't go anywhere fast), and can produce objects with 15% profit margin over my whole capital base, and will be acquired at least 8x the rate (by isk value) than zydrine alone can be, and I will not have to compete all day to keep my orders afloat and incidently kill the spread on what I am trading.
Which is why I value manufacturing conversion more highly than your analysis does.
|

Jenghiz
Singularity Legion
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 09:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
Depending on how you value the minerals and time you spent mining you can make a small profit on T1 ships. The best way to make a bit more on them is to take them to a smaller market zone. For example I believe there is fighting in the delve going on. Find out the most frequently lost ships and then stock some in that area. you can add a convenience premium to the ships since they are close and less time lost reshipping the better. In manufacturing there are more profitable ways to make isk than T1 ship building though. That being said i do build some myself from time to time but only when I can mke a modest or better profit or if its for a friend. |

Cayden Xios
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 13:53:00 -
[28] - Quote
OP, look up Isk Per Hour (IPH). It is an extremely detailed programming that may look overwhelming, but it's easier than it looks. Just give yourself some time to figure it out, because it is VERY powerful. |

Suni Khan
Cyclone Research State Of Union Alliance
3
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Jenghiz wrote:Depending on how you value the minerals and time you spent mining you can make a small profit on T1 ships. The best way to make a bit more on them is to take them to a smaller market zone. For example I believe there is fighting in the delve going on. Find out the most frequently lost ships and then stock some in that area. you can add a convenience premium to the ships since they are close and less time lost reshipping the better. In manufacturing there are more profitable ways to make isk than T1 ship building though. That being said i do build some myself from time to time but only when I can mke a modest or better profit or if its for a friend.
Oh yes becouse minirals you mine yourself are free... Always value them at jita prices. If the ship you are making out of these minirals is worth less then it Is not worth making! You could have made more isk just selling the raw minirals.
Also selling in another hub is trading profit and not manufacturing profit.
I can give a better response when I am home from work. |

Aurel Svenson
Cyclone Solutions
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 14:55:00 -
[30] - Quote
Suni Khan wrote:1 bil bpo is an investment you dont need to make it back. Only the time spent researching the thing. You can sell it off later for 1bil or even a bit higher.
It does not increase in value with time. Cash does, for a manufacturer. Therefore there's an opportunity cost to having a BPO and you need to make that back.
For me I earn about 8%/day on cash so on a billion ISK BPO I'd need to be earning 80M/day off of it to make it worthwhile... A cruiser takes about 3 hours to build so it'd need to be earning 10M/ship. [Probably not typical results (and probably won't last), but it illustrates the point]. |
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