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Paladin, but Pulse or Tachs

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Kookie Snr	Posted - 2008.09.05 15:45:00 - [1] Been grinding cash with my Golem for Amarr agents, and fancy a change. I have a shiny Paladin waiting in my hangar, and 10 days more training ticking down. With my alt I've been using an Apoc with Mega pulse II and it works a charm for the amarr agents. But after playing around with EFT, not really sure whther I should go for the tach IIs on the Paly or stick with Pulse - going to have to do a bit of training for each type, so which first? Thanks
Zrzka Zrzava	Posted - 2008.09.05 16:40:00 - [2] Im using only tachyons with multispectral navy crystals. With 1x dom Tracking enchancer in low slot have optimal around 36km which is where most of bs orbit. Close range isnt usualy problem, still hit orbiting cruisers on 15km. From 15-50km my multispectral tachyons has no problem kiling anything with max dps available ..
Kookie Snr	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:07:00 - [3] Is it possible to get away with a tracking enhancer II, or do you need the dom one, and if so how much are they roughly - sorry can't get on eve to check. Thanks
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.09.05 20:34:00 - [4] Faction tracking enhancers provide the same optimal range bonus as T2. They provide a tiny improvement to tracking, but their main advantage is that they are easier to fit than T2, taking little more than half the CPU. As for the question of Tachs vs Pulse, I have a Tach fitted Abaddon and love it. Fitting a pair of tracking computers I can get 30-40 km with Navy Multispecs depending on the scripts I use. Longer ranges are easy to reach by switching crystals. There is no need to wait for the rats to come to you, you can melt them at any range.
X'Alor	Posted - 2008.09.05 21:36:00 - [5] mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. but overall mega beams are better cuz u get more wreckers and more dps and more cap
Matalino Gallente Ki Tech Industries	Posted - 2008.09.05 22:17:00 - [6] Edited by: Matalino on 05/09/2008 22:19:41 Originally by: X'Alor mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. How do you figure? Pulses might be able to push out an extra 6% DPS, but there is no way that they are matching the range of a Tach setup, not even close. With Faction Multispectral crystals and dual tracking enhancers/computers, Pulses reach 19km (24km losing 80% DPS to falloff) while Tach's hit out to 43km (55km losing 80% DPS to falloff). Switching to Scorch, you can push your range out to 58km, but you will lose 30% of your DPS. With a Tach setup, switching to Gamma will give you the same range as Scorch but with 10% more damage, or switching to Xray will give you the same damage as Scorch with 10% more range. Mega Pulse can claim a fitting and cap advantage, but its small DPS advange is limited to a very short range. Mega Pulses lack the option of extending its range further, while our comparison with Tachs has only covered their closest ranges. Further, if tracking computers are used, the scripts can be changed to narrow the tracking advange in ranges under 30km, within 10km the web bonus renders tracking largely moot. At other ranges there remains the option to select scripts and crystals best suited to the occation. Fitting and cap are the main points that remain, both of which can be delt within easily enough when selecting the rest of the setup.
Fon Revedhort Aeria Gloris Inc Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2008.09.06 01:15:00 - [7] Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 06/09/2008 01:15:30 Originally by: X'Alor mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. but overall mega beams are better cuz u get more wreckers and more dps and more cap You're wrong in all your statements. Tachs do 108% DPS of those crappy Megabeams, plus they use only 105% cap per damage, so Tachs use less cap. Plus they have far better range. As a result the choice is bloody obvious. ---
Kookie Snr	Posted - 2008.09.06 12:03:00 - [8] So what I'm planning on is: (against Amarr Level 4- so Sanshas and Bloods mainly) 4x Tach (not tech II yet) - with Amarr Navy muli 2x Tractor 1x Salvager 3x Cap Recherager 1x Web or Painter 1x LAR II 1x Thermic II 1x Em II 2x Heat Sink II 1x Tracking Enhancer II 1x Aux 1x CCC 7x Meds II I think this should work, but web or painter? Using my Apoc I never really need to use the web, so I might get more milage out of the painter.
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.06 13:13:00 - [9] Originally by: Kookie Snr So what I'm planning on is: (against Amarr Level 4- so Sanshas and Bloods mainly) 4x Tach (not tech II yet) - with Amarr Navy muli 2x Tractor 1x Salvager 3x Cap Recherager 1x Web or Painter 1x LAR II 1x Thermic II 1x Em II 2x Heat Sink II 1x Tracking Enhancer II 1x Aux 1x CCC 7x Meds II I think this should work, but web or painter? Using my Apoc I never really need to use the web, so I might get more milage out of the painter. Definitely the web, you're ignoring the one of the ships best bonuses otherwise. You will need to web anything smaller than a BS that get within 10km of you to hit them with Tachys regardless of how many tracking computers/enhancers you use. I'd be tempted to drop the Tracking Enhancer for a 3rd heat sink, and replace one of your cap rechargers with a Tracking Computer - don't know if this affects perma-tanking but tbh perma-tanking is overrated, and being able to kill things quicker means you don't need such a strong tank anyway.
Kookie Snr	Posted - 2008.09.06 15:57:00 - [10] you're right about the web, forgot the tracking issues from pulse to tachs:)

X'Alor	Posted - 2008.09.06 16:06:00 - [11] Originally by: Matalino Edited by: Matalino on 05/09/2008 22:19:41 Originally by: X'Alor mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. How do you figure? Pulses might be able to push out an extra 6% DPS, but there is no way that they are matching the range of a Tach setup, not even close. With Faction Multispectral crystals and dual tracking enhancers/computers, Pulses reach 19km (24km losing 80% DPS to falloff) while Tach's hit out to 43km (55km losing 80% DPS to falloff). Switching to Scorch, you can push your range out to 58km, but you will lose 30% of your DPS. With a Tach setup, switching to Gamma will give you the same range as Scorch but with 10% more damage, or switching to Xray will give you the same damage as Scorch with 10% more range. Mega Pulse can claim a fitting and cap advantage, but its small DPS advange is limited to a very short range. Mega Pulses lack the option of extending its range further, while our comparison with Tachs has only covered their closest ranges. Further, if tracking computers are used, the scripts can be changed to narrow the tracking advange in ranges under 30km, within 10km the web bonus renders tracking largely moot. At other ranges there remains the option to select scripts and crystals best suited to the occation. Fitting and cap are the main points that remain, both of which can be delt within easily enough when selecting the rest of the setup. hey bone head, where did i ever even bring up any comparison to teh mega PULSE beam i said mega beams do more dp than tach beams. they always have but ppl think cuz the tach beam has the biggest dmg mod that it does more DPS than the mega beam it does not it does have the biggest possible wrecking shot out of all the lasers.
Spider Silva	Posted - 2008.09.06 16:08:00 - [12] Edited by: Spider Silva on 06/09/2008 16:18:57 ok here is my superb paladin mission runner, tried and tested over a couple of months does any level 4 with ease its not cheap but you can amend the expensive modules if you like highs- 4 tech 2 tachs with amarr navy multifreq ( i carry gamma and microwave also ) 2 tractors 1 salvager meds- 1 shadow serpentis tracking computer with tracking script 35% tracking boost, 1 tuvans tracking comp with script 38% tracking boost, 2 tech 2 cap rechargers ( feel free to swap 1 tracking comp for a domination webber) lows- 3 dark blood heat sinks- 1 core x type thermic hardener- 1 core x type kinetic hardener, 1 amarr navy eanm 1 amarr navy large repper this fits with 0 pgrid left with my skills awu 5 all skills at level 5, it is a joy to fly, when im fighting angels i use a torpedo raven with navy bane torps as the lasers are a bit too slow vs angels resists
X'Alor	Posted - 2008.09.06 16:56:00 - [13] Edited by: X''Alor on 06/09/2008 16:59:09 Originally by: Fon Revedhort Edited by: Fon Revedhort on 06/09/2008 01:15:30 Originally by: X'Alor mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. but overall mega beams are better cuz u get more wreckers and more dps and more cap You're wrong in all your statements. Tachs do 108% DPS of those crappy Megabeams, plus they use only 105% cap per damage, so Tachs use less cap. Plus they have far better range. As a result the choice is bloody obvious. and to bone head number 2 base stats gun info T2 Tach beam base 12.5 second activation 95 energy cost = 7.6 cap per second per activation. T2 Mega Beam base 9 second activation 65 energy cost = 7.22222222222 cap per second so if I'm not wrong there, do ya think just maybe i may not be wrong about the DPS between the two beam lasers. T2 Tach dmg mod 5.4 and the mega beam is 3.6 the only thing nice about the tach beams is the possible HUGH wrecking shots they can produce because of the hugh dmg mod but the long activation makes them loser dps. Tracking T2 tach base 0.01392 T2 mega Beam base 0.01531 the faster tracking gun will simply have a better hit ratio and have more accurate hits and more wreckers when compareing the guns in use with skill. now i never brought up mega pulse cuz i think they suck but thats simply and opinion cuz at base they do do the most DPS, at base, for the large lasers. but, multi crystal(hardest hitting crystal) beam weapon(tach or mega) 60 km range no prob. pulse have to use radio crystals(weakest crystals) to hit that full range thus making there base DPS a moot point cuz of crystal use. under 20 km range is way different story tho. pulses all the way. now my char with max laser skills large spec 5 and all with same setup with both tach beams and mega beams installed. the tach beam does about 12 DPS less than the mega beam now if you combine gank setups and compare the mega beam to the tach beam it gets really really crazy. if you guys like your gank tach setups. try a mega gank setup and watch things melt.
Keld Ara	Posted - 2008.09.06 17:26:00 - [14] hey X' shhhhhhhhhh
Spider Silva	Posted - 2008.09.06 18:56:00 - [15] Originally by: X'Alor mega beams actually do more dps than tach beams. not to mention less cap use better tracking but slightly less range. only thing cool about tach beams is the possible occassional hugh wrecker. but overall mega beams are better cuz u get more wreckers and more dps and more cap i do believe you entirely x, i have just tested my paladin with 4 mega beam 2s instead of tach 2s, its great, faster rof and brilliant hits, i think i set myself a new record for damsel in distress with the beam 2s, you have enlightened me today by the way mate the word is huge not hugh, hugh is the name of that silly english actor hugh grant
Durzel Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.06 22:00:00 - [16] Rubbish. Run the numbers in EFT - on otherwise identical setup ships 4 x T2 Tachys out-dps and out-volley 4 x T2 Mega Beam by a significant margin. T2 Mega Beam even has 4km less optimal and 5km less falloff. The only case where T2 Mega Beam would out-damage T2 Tachys would be where you're consistently missing shots with the Tachys, and since there is very little in the way of a difference in tracking between the two guns - if you're gonna miss a shot with a Tachy you'll probably still miss it with a Mega Beam. Saying that T2 Mega Beam out-damage T2 Tachy is flat out wrong in every possible sense of the word. The only reason you would use Mega Beams over Tachys is if you had PG issues.
StinkFinger Caldari State War Academy	Posted - 2008.09.07 02:25:00 - [17] Edited by: StinkFinger on 07/09/2008 02:25:48 you should of gotten a nightmare. thanks to the tracking bonus it gets, tachys track almost as good as a base mega pulse. also, it costs about the same as a paladin. the only caveat is that you have to have shield tankin skillz ready. Originally by: Karanth That's like sitting on your hand till it goes numb, so it's like a stranger. It's not as satisfying, and I'LL know the difference.
Tamoko Damage Unlimited Inc INTERDICTION	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:04:00 - [18] Edited by: Tamoko on 07/09/2008 14:06:03 Here's my Pally setup. 4x Amarr Navy Tachyons 2x Tractor Beam 1x nil 2x Tracking Computer II 2x Cap Recharger II 1x Dark Blood LAR 1x Cap Power Relay II 2x Active Hardener II 3x Heat Sink II 2x Cap Control Circuit I With 5/4 Cap skills and Marauder IV, has a 243 second recharge rate with 8690 capacity for an 89/sec peak recharge. Perma runs everything with MF loaded, or near enough to it to not matter. Tanks WC4, AE4, Blockade4, et al., no problems at all. Over-tanked, if anything. I do swap a Heat Sink for an Amarr Navy EAMN for missions with a great deal of disparate damage, such as 'Silence the Informant'. I have a full set of 3% hardwires as well. PS. I have no issues tracking anything. I can one or two volley the cruisers in Sansha Vengenace orbitting me at 12km w/o a web. I can insta-pop frigate rogue drones around 20km. Originally by: "Bellum Eternus" Is 'speed tank' code for 'completely invulnerable'?
Elhina Novae Destruction Reborn CORPVS DELICTI	Posted - 2008.09.07 14:27:00 - [19] Mega Pulses and Scorch? ------------ Originally by: Boz Well Originally by: SurrenderMonkey ... There's an Amarr problem? Nothing that can't be solved by more Minmatar nerfs.
Chainsaw Plankton IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.07 20:59:00 - [20] I started with megapulse and amarr navy multi + scorch switched to tachs and amarr navy multi and never went back. domi web is oh so nice, almost a 20km web with overload, I also have a nightmare but haven't come up with a fit I like, and I like the 40km tractor beams too much [Paladin, Tachys] Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Heat Sink II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Kinetic Hardener II Armor Thermic Hardener II Large 'Accommodation' Vestment Reconstructer I Domination Stasis Webifier Tracking Computer II, Optimal Range Cap Recharger II Cap Recharger II Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L Tachyon Beam Laser II, Amarr Navy Multifrequency L [empty high slot] [empty high slot] [empty high slot] Capacitor Control Circuit I Capacitor Control Circuit I Hammerhead II x5

Jaketh Ivanes Amarr Imperial Servants	Posted - 2008.09.07 22:06:00 - [21] Here is my Paladin setup High: 4x Tach II, 2x Tracktor, 1x Salvager. Mid: AB, 2x Tracking comp (track and range scripts), Web Low: 3x HS II, DCU and 3 hardners. Got logistic alt doing the tanking. I'm using Navy X-ray for better range. Got potimal at 50 with one of the tracking comps fitted with range script.


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