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BaliAgha Nightmare Inc. CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:33:00 - [1] From the looks of things there are or could be fake buyers and sellers in attempts to increase the cost of a GTC. Example: Alt character starts post and sells GTC for 440 mil isk. He then can log on to another account or change names and proceed to 'buy' his own fake order. When a legit seller or buyer comes along they can only try and æcompeteÆ with other buyers/sellers, whether they are fake or not. ---- With groups forming up and organizing fake orders or buyers will and do completely mess up the market. There should be a way of verification when trying to post buy or sell orders. ISK Farmers are getting smarter by the min.... --------- --------- [S.k.y] SkyGuard Merceneries STPRO Caldari Militia CODE Code Red Alliance
BaliAgha Nightmare Inc. CODE RED ALLIANCE	Posted - 2008.09.06 20:33:00 - [2] From the looks of things there are or could be fake buyers and sellers in attempts to increase the cost of a GTC. Example: Alt character starts post and sells GTC for 440 mil isk. He then can log on to another account or change names and proceed to 'buy' his own fake order. When a legit seller or buyer comes along they can only try and æcompeteÆ with other buyers/sellers, whether they are fake or not. ---- With groups forming up and organizing fake orders or buyers will and do completely mess up the market. There should be a way of verification when trying to post buy or sell orders. ISK Farmers are getting smarter by the min.... --------- --------- [S.k.y] SkyGuard Merceneries STPRO Caldari Militia CODE Code Red Alliance
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:01:00 - [3] i tend to agree with this idea ....seems a lot of new scams are being setup
Disiegor Minmatar InterGalactic Corp. Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:02:00 - [4] /agreed they moved straight from the belt to the gtc bazaar :P
Aliana Trade	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:07:00 - [5] Guys, isk farmers dont want the amount of isk to increase for a gtc. They want the gtc's to cost LESS. The more isk you get for your dollar (in the form of the cost of a time code) the less they make. Example if you get 1 billion isk for a 60 day code that costs you 34.99, they have to sell the isk for less then that somewhere else to compete. If you buy a 60 day code for 400mill and pay $34.99 they get twice the cash for 1/2 the work.
Faster Cart Caldari Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:07:00 - [6] I was wondering wht GTCs went from 350mil to 450mil. ):
Esfiera	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:08:00 - [7] Shhh. They're trying to whine about rising GTC prices and blame them on "exploiting" so they can get the prices to drop again.
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:12:00 - [8] that and the greed ......seems like theres plenty of buyers but the sellers keep raising the price
Darth Eradicate	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:16:00 - [9] Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500.
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:19:00 - [10] Originally by: Darth Eradicate Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500. 30 day codes use to be 150 50 day codes 200 90 day codes 350 180 day codes 700
Faster Cart Caldari Ihatalo Heavy Industries Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:20:00 - [11] Edited by: Faster Cart on 07/09/2008 04:21:03 Originally by: Darth Eradicate Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500. 30days used to be 180mil. 90days used to be 370-420mil.
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:25:00 - [12] Originally by: Faster Cart Edited by: Faster Cart on 07/09/2008 04:21:03 Originally by: Darth Eradicate Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500. 30days used to be 180mil. 90days used to be 370-420mil. guess it all boils down to how long you've been buying gtc's through the forum
aNFsiDoL	Posted - 2008.09.07 04:51:00 - [13] Totally agree, price has went up by 100m in a tiny space of time. this isnt even justified as the dollar is now getting stronger. the GM's need to either set a fixed price on GTCs or at least combat this inflation somehow. On sites like ebay people would get banned for this sort of shit. The end result will be people stopping playing eve because of not being able to purchase a timecode at a correct fair price. Also, if this continues, they will see a drop in people purchasing timecodes to get ISK and a rise in people using out of game websites to purchase ISK as it will become much harder to find a buyyer for the code and lets be honest i dont think many people will want to wait a week to sell their code on when u can get instant isk for cheaper from a website. aNF
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:12:00 - [14] ya its that greed thing ...........claiming undervalued to sell gtc's 510mil ...........and yes if you can make loads of isk in missions and mining then why bother selling gtc's ..........me i donno ...i try to help ppl understand that missioning and mining is only a small part of the game of eve .......pvp is sinqhole we all know it .....but its a part of the game .....my agreement with this thread is based on the use of fake buyer/sellers to raise the prices for the greedy ........which in turn can be directly translated into the game it's self ....simply by the manufactures of the items that the greedy need to play the game with ....so by all means raise the price of gtc's ....you'll also see the prices of items go up as well ......
Ami Nia	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:27:00 - [15] Buyers cry a lot when the prices go up. Sellers did not cry when they went down. Maybe because most sellers know the market (I admit there are exceptions), while buyers are generally clueless. The prices went up from 320-360 to 450-500 in less than 2 days. This is not a surprise. It was totally expected (i predicted it in july, only error I made was to predict it for next week instead of this). In mid july prices were around 450. Buyers kept crying and predicting it to be a price craze that would eventually settle. At the end of the month they went down to 400, then 360, then stayed between 320-350 until two days ago. This is was not a surprise. It was totally expected by serious sellers, and was not an indication of the end of a non-existing price craze. Know the market and buy/sell when is more convenient, instead of complaining for non-existing prize crazes and market manipulations. CCP has removed 30-50-90-100 day GTCs and introduced a SINGLE duration: 60d. Within 30 days of that event, all those living out of 30d GTCs and 1 out of 3 of those living out of 90d GTCs had passed to the 60d GTC regime. During this period prices had a very high volatility. But when that was over prices went down. Now ALL of them are expired/about to expire. For about 3 weeks (maybe even 4) the prices will be up again. Expect them to average in the 480-520 range, with lower peaks around 430-450 in the weekends and upper peaks around 580 during the week. This will last for 3 weeks, and any GTC you buy for LESS will come from a clueless seller or be a fake buyer/seller. By the last week of september prices will sink again. Back to 360-400, more or less. And stay there till the beginning of november. Then they'll be up to 500+ again. Buyers crying because the prices are 500+ now are clueless. As are sellers crying because the prices were (and will be) down to 400- when the 60d wave is over. You will, however find some sellers that will sell for 400 or less in this period. They are the occasional sellers that trade some GTCs once in a while and do not know the market. Any seller/buyer that has a clue knows when is best to trade and when is best to wait for a month or two. If you want to sell, sell in the upcoming 2-3 weeks. Not at weekends. If you want to buy, buy around mid october. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
Taua Roqa Minmatar Groping Hand Social Club	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:34:00 - [16] Originally by: Darth Eradicate Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500. that is plain wrong.
Ami Nia	Posted - 2008.09.07 05:50:00 - [17] Originally by: Taua Roqa Originally by: Darth Eradicate Well when you look at it, the old 30 days used to go for 200-400 mil a piece. the 90 day used to go for 600-800 a piece...so the 60 day should technically go for about 400-600 a piece. I'm not sure why people sell them so low..I won't sell below 500. that is plain wrong. Agreed. It's plain wrong. Comparison with the old price was something you could do in the first week after the GTCs were introduced. It means nothing now. The price now is, and will be, dictated by market forces. And market forces (this is a point many do not understand) are not controlled by what you do/want to do. You cannot change the market value of an unlimited supply good (like GTCs) with fake trades or by refusing to buy/refusing to sell. You can control a market with those tricks if it's a limited supply market and you can afford to have a large share of it (this happens regularly in game were most items are in limited supply in any given region). But it does not work here. The only force that really work here is the number of people that want to buy: if a lot of people need to renew (like now, and for the upcoming weeks) the price will be hight. When few people need to renew (august) the price will go down. This 101. This is a market for an unlimited supply consumable good. You cannot change the market value by refusing to sell/buy. But you CAN wait and sell/buy at the best moment (and hence price). --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:01:00 - [18] yes i know the rates ive posted here are old ...and no longer are useful .........but still scammers like to rip ppl off and do so .......a lot .....im at the end my 90 day gtc ..so ill be on vacation till i resume my play ....and yes i can easily afford a new gtc ......just i see those that are useing the market influx of buy orders as an escape from the reasonable to let loss of their greed ...its kinda of a statement in my buy order ....lol
Marine Maniac	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:02:00 - [19] Edited by: Marine Maniac on 07/09/2008 06:03:23 Wow that was pretty much said perfectly. (Ami) So everyone stop the ignorant complaints that really are just making you look childish. It sucks if you have to buy one right now, yes. It also sucks if you lose your ship. It sucks when you need isk and have to sell at a very low price. This is EVE... you should be used to it.
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:08:00 - [20] Originally by: Marine Maniac Edited by: Marine Maniac on 07/09/2008 06:03:23 Wow that was pretty much said perfectly. (Ami) So everyone stop the ignorant complaints that really are just making you look childish. It sucks if you have to buy one right now, yes. It also sucks if you lose your ship. It sucks when you need isk and have to sell at a very low price. This is EVE... you should be used to it. yes wait and buy gtc's a month from now ......the sellers will desprate to get any isk at all by then
john roe Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:09:00 - [21] Edited by: john roe on 07/09/2008 06:09:31 Linkage Fake sales. they have no shame, realy
Ami Nia	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:15:00 - [22] xhairy, you can call it greed, if you want. But it is not. It's just plain basic business. If you need to renew now, for whatever reason, than YOU are doing it wrong (do not worry: many are). Again: unlimited supply of a consumable. This is not a demand/offer driven market. This is a demand only driven market. Sellers that do not ride the demand wave are simply clueless. Those that do are just doing their business the right way. The waves are predictable (with some degree of approximation). Therefore if you sell during a short you fail and it's totally your fault. The same is if you buy during a long. DO NOT BUY until mid october. If you have to buy now, it's your fault: if you live out of GTCs you should always follow the GTC market trends and plan your business three or four months in advance (more if you have a hard deadline). The market will eventually equalize (for many reasons that are too long to explain here). But you'll see this 60 day waves for several cycles, unless some big perturbation comes into play (the exact release date of Midas could be one. The release date of Ambulation will surely be the big twister). --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
Ami Nia	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:22:00 - [23] Originally by: john roe Edited by: john roe on 07/09/2008 06:09:31 Linkage Fake sales. they have no shame, realy If he did it he really has no clue. Or maybe you have no clue. Peak prices in the last 48 ours were around 550m. No fakes, real transactions. Faking a 500m sale and then looking for a 475m one is pointless. Especially because there'll be a long for about 3 or 4 weeks. It has just started. You can EASILY fetch 460-480m, no need for a fake sale to push it. With a bit of patience you can fetch much more than that. --- Originally by: CCP Mitnal So we can 1 v 1 with Garmon.
Visilious	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:29:00 - [24] You blow up a guys ship and say "That's Eve, don't pilot a ship you can't afford to lose." On the other hand you complain that I spend my RL Money to get you a timecode, and charge you the same as a capital ship? Well like they say, if you can't afford to lose the ship don't fly it... if you can't afford the GTC then don't buy it! Spend your own RL money. Can it get any simpler?
xhairy	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:40:00 - [25] Originally by: Visilious You blow up a guys ship and say "That's Eve, don't pilot a ship you can't afford to lose." On the other hand you complain that I spend my RL Money to get you a timecode, and charge you the same as a capital ship? Well like they say, if you can't afford to lose the ship don't fly it... if you can't afford the GTC then don't buy it! Spend your own RL money. Can it get any simpler? lol i like this guys explaintion ...lol
Darth Eradicate	Posted - 2008.09.07 06:41:00 - [26] Edited by: Darth Eradicate on 07/09/2008 06:41:09 I'll agree with that visilious.
5h3M4l3	Posted - 2008.09.07 07:03:00 - [27] Edited by: 5h3M4l3 on 07/09/2008 07:03:01 Originally by: Visilious You blow up a guys ship and say "That's Eve, don't pilot a ship you can't afford to lose." On the other hand you complain that I spend my RL Money to get you a timecode, and charge you the same as a capital ship? Well like they say, if you can't afford to lose the ship don't fly it... if you can't afford the GTC then don't buy it! Spend your own RL money. Can it get any simpler? i would have to cut myself for paying with RL money for such product, mate. literaly Setting the correct ETCs prices since 2005
Visilious	Posted - 2008.09.07 07:04:00 - [28] i would have to cut myself for paying with RL money for such product, mate. literaly May I suggest you start with your jugular?
5h3M4l3	Posted - 2008.09.07 07:06:00 - [29] Edited by: 5h3M4l3 on 07/09/2008 07:07:14 with what? ps. troll all you want, bro... you are not gonna change fact that 300-320M for 60 days of 'lag-online' is more than enough. Setting the correct ETCs prices since 2005
Visilious	Posted - 2008.09.07 07:12:00 - [30] Originally by: 5h3M4l3 Edited by: 5h3M4l3 on 07/09/2008 07:07:14 with what? ps. troll all you want, bro... you are not gonna change fact that 300-320M for 60 days of 'lag-online' is more than enough. {sigh} http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jugular_vein Start cutting there.... please proceed to your next most favorite artery. As far as the price of the GTC, you have more than EXCELLENT explanations above to why the prices are where they are. If you need more evidence of the market at play let me ask you why you haven't received the GTC you seek at the price you want? The answer is simply because you can't!

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