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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
   |
Posted - 2008.09.08 16:51:00 -
[1]
Edited by: TornSoul on 08/09/2008 16:51:23
www.BIG-EVE.com/BMBE
- Points of interest
- The numbers
The 30th BMBE shareholder report is a day late, as I've been ill for the past week.
Points of interest
The FIN-U shares where sold (buyback) on RESX at 1M ISK a piece for a total of 12.159B ISK
RESX took their 0.5% cut (60.795M ISK)
The remainder is added to the BMBE capital.
The 5,000 PCT shares have been reset to 0 ISK - ie. writting them of.
It's not a total loss as dividends has been paid out on them, as a sort of buyback.
As this is dividend and not straight share selling, it however means a loss of BMBE capital, but increased (BMBE) dividend payout.
This payout has been realised in previous months, and is just mentioned for completeness.
BSAMR/BSAMT shares have finally been "registred" with BMBE (so that dividends ends up in the BMBE wallet automatically) - Mostly interesting for myself 
The "missing" ~9.5B BMBE ISK was recieved from Ray
All of the above ties up alot of loose ends that was left dangling due to the change of BMBE management - Glad to be done with that
----
We had two new (small) loans this month (one already repaid)
And several inquiries.
One in particular for an amount between 30B-60B, pending the outcome of an auction.
Sadly, for the BMBE, this loan didn't realise - Else it would have turned a pauver month into an excellent month.
The numbers
August Dividends
Total : 326,271,006.41 ISK
Per share : 207,287.81 ISK
August re-investement
Total : 163,135,503.21 ISK
Per share : 103,643.90 ISK
August NAV
Total : 124,625,692,759.82 ISK
Per Share : 79,177,695.53 ISK (1574 BMBE shares public)
End of month liquid ISK
Total : 68,980,902,259.82 ISK
Start of month loan amount
0 ISK
End of month loan amount
2B ISK
(#30 - 2008.08) BMBE Shareholder Report
Average loan amount
3,935,483,870.97 ISK
Loans
2 New
1 Closed
0 Refinanced
0 Defaulted
Share portfolie
Total value : 53,644,790,500 ISK
AATP 25,363 @12,000 ISK
FIN 2,119,513 @6,500 ISK
BSAMR 359,160 @100,000 ISK
BSAMT 36,476 @100,000 ISK
PCT 5,000 @0 ISK
BIG Lottery |
TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 16:52:00 -
[2]
Edited by: TornSoul on 08/09/2008 16:52:35
Dividend History Per Share
Feb-060,00
Mar-060,00
Apr-06567 705.06
May-062 120 000.00
Jun-061 660 000.00
Jul-061 036 000.00
Aug-06651 000.00
Sep-060,00
Oct-0610 000.00
Nov-0655 000.00
Dec-061 240 640.00
Jan-071 769 120.00
Feb-071 456 554.30
Mar-071 559 647.00
Apr-071 389 126.10
May-071 320 677.50
Jun-071 708 296.60
Jul-071 560 093.04
Aug-071 389 577.68
Sep-071 925 233.60
Oct-071 875 814.72
Nov-071 608 953.36
Dec-071 226 948.72
Jan-081 494 801.41
Feb-081 655 349.56
Mar-08890 043.14
Apr-080.00
May-080.00
June-080.00
July-080.00
August-08 207 287.81
Total 30 377 869.60
BIG Lottery |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 17:55:00 -
[3]
I know I will get ripped here, but I just can't understand how this is seen as a viable business.
NAV = 124B
Divs = 326M
ROI = 0.26% monthly
Even if the dividend improves tenfold, it will only have an ROI of 2.6%. That size dividend (3.26B) has never been paid out.
I don't understand why it wasn't folded and money returned, or even better invest the many billions of spare cash in either:
EBank or
Ray Bonds.
Either of those would earn way higher dividends!
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 19:13:00 -
[4]
You're forgetting the 164M ISK re-investment.
Not that it changes your comment in anyway - Just wanted to add it for completeness sake.
BIG Lottery |
CornerStoner
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Posted - 2008.09.08 19:31:00 -
[5]
do AATP shares still have value? (I hope they do!) I was under the impression that this corp was in permanent "limbo"
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 19:33:00 -
[6]
Bit uncertain actually...
BMBE's stake is only ~300M ISK though.
BIG Lottery |
Ricdic
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.08 22:59:00 -
[7]
 Originally by: TornSoul
You're forgetting the 164M ISK re-investment.
Is there any actual point to reinvestment? So you can leave an extra 164m idle on the account along with the other 80b or so currently sitting in a wallet doing nothing? |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 02:08:00 -
[8]
Ok in last months report your gave the following figures;
Originally by: TornSoul
BMBE NAV:
Liquid ISK : 49,966,795,251.81 ISK
Sharevalue : 66,632,040,500,00 ISK
-----------------------------------
Total 116,598,835,751.81 ISK
Total public BMBE : 1587
BMBE Sharevalue : 73,471,226.06 ISK
This month you gave the following numbers;
Originally by: TornSoul
August NAV
Total : 124,625,692,759.82 ISK
Per Share : 79,177,695.53 ISK (1574 BMBE shares public)
End of month liquid ISK
Total : 68,980,902,259.82 ISK
Share portfolie
Total value : 53,644,790,500 ISK
Firstly I am confused that your "public" share count decreased by 13 shares. When you explictly said the following last month;
Originally by: TornSoul
Buyback stopped
Effective immediately no more BMBE shares will be bought back.
The main reason for this is, again, to ease the bookkeeping in this transition phase.
It is unlikely that the buyback procedure will be re-instated, but I wont rule it out completly.
Did this change your mind? or are you buying them back incognito?
Also does the almost 40% increase in liquidity, also know as isk doing nothing not bother you? Is there a plan to get that isk doing anything? Besides the "hope and prey" method that you get a loan application?
Why did you lose the prosepective 30b-60b loan? Was it through some fault of the BMBE system, agents? Or did the loan applicant find better terms somewhere else? Or did he not win the auction?
Your nav in the last month basically increased 10b, bravo! Although did it really? since 9.5b came in from ray as left overs from the hand over process. Another 0.5b came from the difference that you vauled FIN-U last month 950k/ea and what you actually got for them 1m/ea.
Anyways, it makes the baby jesus cry to see that much idle isk for that long, and it further makes him cry when your ROI is so fricken low. I just dont grasp this as being in any way a succesful business modle.
You need to do something to get the bad boy back on track, close it down, or allow those to get out a buyback. The secondary market for your shares is dead, no one buys them(except maybe you, still wondering about that 13share difference).
--
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.09.09 02:44:00 -
[9]
I think it says a lot when my RL ROI on my internet ING bank account pays out more on a yearly basis than BMBE does in a game the alarm bells should be ringing.
This will soon become the most poorly managed business in New Eden.
Swallow your pride close it down.
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.09.09 04:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: cosmoray
I think it says a lot when my RL ROI on my internet ING bank account pays out more on a yearly basis than BMBE does in a game the alarm bells should be ringing
EBANK pays out more in a month than BMBE pays in a year if this month is a sign of things to come.
TS the offer is still on the table for some sort of liquid EBANK account you can access when you need funds for BMBE loans. We can actually utilise that isk and you can earn something off it so you can give some form of half decent returns to your investors.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 05:41:00 -
[11]
His pride/ego I think is to great to ever accept that offer Ric.
Not that I would be cared to be proven wrong or right, just a statement of fact as percieved in my, as defined by law, insane membrane.
--
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.09 07:12:00 -
[12]
Don't you think you guys are going a bit overboard?
Sure, it's a hell of a lot of cash sitting idle but BMBE needs liquid funds to support new loans, it's bound to take a little while to get the system up and running again since TS took over.
Sure, the div was a total joke but that's because the isk was just sat there, it's not like it's going to be that way every month for a whole year.
If your a shareholder and just want the money back then sure, you might be a little miffed right now, but there are plenty of people happy to buy BMBE bonds. (myself included. For the right price of course )
Why not just give it a few months to see how it goes? Let the advertising penetrate a little. I don't see this as an inviable business model at all, it's just that right now, there is a LOT of liquid isk sat around doing nothing due to the drawn out and sloppy handover.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 07:21:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Ambo
Don't you think you guys are going a bit overboard?
No, I don't think that they are after so many years. Originally by: Ambo
but there are plenty of people happy to buy BMBE bonds. (myself included. For the right price of course )
Perhaps people don't want to hand in their 100% value bonds over to you for a mere 25% value? Unless you are offering at NAV or higher? No? Didn't think so. Originally by: Ambo
LOT of liquid isk sat around doing nothing due to the drawn out and sloppy handover.
Is there some information you have that the rest of us do not? Please tell us as we'd love to understand in what way that Ray has made this cumbersome for BMBE to continue doing well. (I think you've pulled this "sloppy and drawn out" part out of your arse myself.) For myself, I just think BMBE is too... inflexible. I approached Torn today regarding a loan and I'm just not inclined to have 100% collateral laying fallow or being actively used for BMBE's profit and pay interest. Though I will admit trying to get 2% mpr interest rate was a bit low but tbh I was actually trying to help Torn out by putting some isk to work. Mind you, someone did buy my shares at 100% of reported nav so I got lucky as I exited the club of BMBE investors. But just because I'm no longer an investor doesn't mean I want to see BMBE doing so badly either. I was long in my support, pretty much from the second issue as I missed on the first issue. Took years for me to finally decide selling was the thing to do. I'm rambling... time to go to bed.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 07:51:00 -
[14]
I forgot to add: Torn was easy to talk to and he was quite clear and up front about BMBE policies. I totally agreed with him about not bypassing any policies simply based upon who I am as that would indeed be favoritism.
However I think BMBE's policies are self defeating as "nothing ventured, nothing gained". Policies can not always be about 100% collateral as, simply, there are sums that if a person could collateral they'd likely not bother with a loan.
(For the record I was asking for 9 - 12 billion for a small project.)
PS: I didn't want this to seem like a total bashing on Torn & BMBE. I'm not in the against group, just no longer in the fanboi group either.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 12:21:00 -
[15]
Another problem with the business model is that the world has moved on.
If you want a loan most people will go to EBank first. Whatever your opinions are of EBank they have done a good job at branding their product, and it is the first name that anyone thinks of for banking products.
BMBE has been out of the game too long, doesn't have the reputation anymore for this to be a viable project.
There are IPO's with 10% of the NAV of BMBE paying out more divs. BMBE could at least use some of the idle cash to offer to buy anyone out who wanted to......but blah, blah not in the IPO document so there is no buyback......stubborness.......I will hang on to the money.......the investors have no say..........etc
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Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 13:02:00 -
[16]
Edited by: Ambo on 09/09/2008 13:04:08
Edited cos I fail at quoting. 
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ambo
but there are plenty of people happy to buy BMBE bonds. (myself included. For the right price of course )
Perhaps people don't want to hand in their 100% value bonds over to you for a mere 25% value? Unless you are offering at NAV or higher? No? Didn't think so.
Well tbh I have no idea what the original value was and no, I wouldn't buy them at NAV or higher. I'd probably pay 5-10% under NAV but no more than that. My point is, there ARE people willing to buy at decent prices. Not getting all your money back of course but certainly most of it.
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Originally by: Ambo
LOT of liquid isk sat around doing nothing due to the drawn out and sloppy handover.
Is there some information you have that the rest of us do not? Please tell us as we'd love to understand in what way that Ray has made this cumbersome for BMBE to continue doing well. (I think you've pulled this "sloppy and drawn out" part out of your arse myself.)
I'm not saying Ray has done anything, I never even mentioned his name.
However, I point to the following posts as evidence of my opinion:
5th Apr 2008 - Ray resigns
4th Aug 2008 - TS announces that he's taking over because "Part of getting BMBE back on track is to actually have a person in charge af the BMBE, which we basically haven't had since Ray retired, hence the void the BMBE has been in."
Now if that isn't a drawn out handover then I don't know what is.
The sloppy part refers to the fact that Ray still held 9.5 bil that should have been in BMBE's wallet, ownership of shares was not transfered, etc. Not a big deal, just a little... sloppy.
Since none of these particular nuggets were expeled from my anus, I can only assume you simply don't see things the same way I do.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 13:14:00 -
[17]
Ambo, I have to ask.
Are you happy that in 31 months of dividend payments BMBE has paid out a total of 24% of current NAV.
Now even though NAV has increased the divs are a disgrace.
Most IPO's return their entire NAV within 12-15 months. How could you possibly be pleased with this performance?
What has made this situation worse is that TS is using a technicality because of statements made in the IPO document that no votes or buybacks will occur. If a buyback was granted at NAV, everyone would cash. Its called voting with your feet, and shows the true management performance.
IPO's should grow and evolve just as Eve has. This is a dead business.
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F FLETCH
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Posted - 2008.09.09 14:22:00 -
[18]
Originally by: cosmoray
Ambo, I have to ask.
Are you happy that in 31 months of dividend payments BMBE has paid out a total of 24% of current NAV.
Now even though NAV has increased the divs are a disgrace.
Most IPO's return their entire NAV within 12-15 months. How could you possibly be pleased with this performance?
What has made this situation worse is that TS is using a technicality because of statements made in the IPO document that no votes or buybacks will occur. If a buyback was granted at NAV, everyone would cash. Its called voting with your feet, and shows the true management performance.
IPO's should grow and evolve just as Eve has. This is a dead business.
This is exactly how I feel and the reason I keep asking for a buyback. Things move on holding your shareholders to the original agreement may be to the letter of the law, but it isn't good cutomer relations when the model obviously isn't working and after all this is only a game... Let the people have their say on this being stubborn is only annoying your shareholders more and more.
Save some face offer a buyback at NAV and be done with this farce.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.09 15:44:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Ambo
The sloppy part refers to the fact that Ray still held 9.5 bil that should have been in BMBE's wallet, ownership of shares was not transfered, etc. Not a big deal, just a little... sloppy.
That was intentional for a variety of reasons. So it was more careful than sloppy, and had no ill effect at all.
I can also honestly say that your combined BMBE-bashing will have no effect at all, I think you all realise that too. Perhaps constructive rather than destructive thought is the way to go then?
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:30:00 -
[20]
tbh Ray some of it has been fairly constructive. If you have a business where 50-60% of ALL capital is sitting idle and not earning any return what would you do.
EBank has offered an account with access for loans, that is a good start.
But I also have to say that the BMBE management are sitting behind their IPO launch relating to buyback or closure.
Let me ask a question what if the next 3 months shows similar returns, still no change?
When would management think it is time to change the business model. Never? Just because it says so in the IPO?
The simple fact is this is about the worst performing business in eve, aside from scams. If the returns remain the same and the management holds onto the capital it becomes a de-facto scam, because the shareholders will still have lost everything (no one will buy shares at NAV value).
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Ray McCormack
hirr
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 16:34:00 -
[21]
Actually, if you include re-investment in your calculations it's performed above par.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.09 16:55:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 09/09/2008 17:07:05
Originally by: Ray McCormack
I can also honestly say that your combined BMBE-bashing will have no effect at all, I think you all realise that too.
Bashing was not my intent, so please forgive. Also, discontent is not malcontent. Treating them both the same is a symptom of groupthink. You know that which you openly worry about happening at eBank? While the comments do meander a bit BMBE investors have a number of worries and concerns that are rarely addressed. Unlike eBank, a BMBEinvestor does not have the option of expressing their ultimate displeasure. The secondary market is not a valid option, it is a measure of desperation where one is lucky to get anything close to what you put in + any interest. Like I said, I'm not bashing BMBE (or praising eBank). I'm just doing what I always do: Take a thread seriously and speak about the issues honestly. And these are honest issues being raised by concern parties. edit note: Somehow this got posted before I was done. Damnable forums are finickier lately.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 17:08:00 -
[23]
Originally by: cosmoray
Ambo, I have to ask.
Are you happy that in 31 months of dividend payments BMBE has paid out a total of 24% of current NAV.
Now even though NAV has increased the divs are a disgrace.
Most IPO's return their entire NAV within 12-15 months. How could you possibly be pleased with this performance?
What has made this situation worse is that TS is using a technicality because of statements made in the IPO document that no votes or buybacks will occur. If a buyback was granted at NAV, everyone would cash. Its called voting with your feet, and shows the true management performance.
IPO's should grow and evolve just as Eve has. This is a dead business.
I wouldn't be pleased at all if I had shares. However, I don't so I'm indifferent. I'm very suppriesed that no buy back at all is offered. Frankly I think a vote would be the way to go to see if people wanted to continue with BMBE as the way it is or not.
All I'm saying is, give the guy a chance, he's only been running it 1 month (yeah, I know all the history but this was effectively a fresh start).
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Ambo
The sloppy part refers to the fact that Ray still held 9.5 bil that should have been in BMBE's wallet, ownership of shares was not transfered, etc. Not a big deal, just a little... sloppy.
That was intentional for a variety of reasons. So it was more careful than sloppy, and had no ill effect at all.
I can also honestly say that your combined BMBE-bashing will have no effect at all, I think you all realise that too. Perhaps constructive rather than destructive thought is the way to go then?
In that case, well done on being careful. From the outside it looked sloppy because no one appeared quite sure where the cash was or even if any was definatley missing. If that's not the case then I'll remove the 'sloppy' and just leave the 'drawn out'.
Also, I was the one asking people to bash less but whatever. As stated above, I'm totally indifferent to BMBE myself.
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
Ray McCormack
hirr
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 17:32:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Ambo
Also, I was the one asking people to bash less but whatever.
My second paragraph wasn't directed at you, but rather all previous posters.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 17:45:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
but rather all previous posters.
o/
:)
--
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BPC's4Sale
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:41:00 -
[26]
I still do not understand why not vote is conducted to see what the majority of the share holders want unless TS is afraid of the results. TBH, I would be afraid if people actually voted to keep it running with payouts like these.
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Ricdic
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.09 23:00:00 -
[27]
Why vote when you can lock people into the business. TS currently has the cheapest loan in Eve. He controls the money, he controls the system, he controls how much he gives you each week and the fact that you own part of his company means nothing because he doesn't give a damn what his shareholders say.
It would be interesting to see if anyone at all invested in another TS public operation. |
TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 01:29:00 -
[28]
Edited by: TornSoul on 10/09/2008 01:30:25
Originally by: Ricdic
he doesn't give a damn what his shareholders say.
Excuse me? How dare you?
On what excactly do you base this?
That I don't want to shut down BMBE (or put it to a vote) because a handfull or so here keeps yelling about it?
I *do* give a damn what shareholders say - or rather, let me rephrase that to "I do give a damn what people say".
And this regardless if it's shareholders or not.
I give a damn if people come up with constructive posts and ideas for how to improve the service BMBE provides.
And I've said this in the past as well.
Changes have been made in the past excactly because I *did* give a damn - and listened, and acted on good and productive ideas.
But I definatly reserve the right to pick and chose as *I* see fit.
This has been so since day 1, and will not change. Get over it.
The masses, not to mention lynch mobs, rarely make the best long term judgements.
-----
Don't get personal with me Ricdic, you won't like it. And I honestly expected more from you.
From the rest of the mob it's expected and par for the course, and doesn't bother me.
Lets be professional(s) about it.
---------
And for the constant demands for a buyback:
There already *was* a period, stretching months!, where Ray did buybacks.
That's why there's not 2000 public BMBE shares anymore for crying out loud.
Not *one* in this thread pointing that fact out...
It's however not a mechanic I wish to perpetuate for various reasons.
Seriously no ones fault but your own if you missed the train when the offer was on the table.
BIG Lottery |
Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 01:36:00 -
[29]
Originally by: TornSoul
And for the constant demands for a buyback:
There already *was* a period, stretching months!, where Ray did buybacks.
That's why there's not 2000 public BMBE shares anymore for crying out loud.
Not *one* in this thread pointing that fact out...
It's however not a mechanic I wish to perpetuate for various reasons.
Seriously no ones fault but your own if you missed the train when the offer was on the table.
Just out of curiosity, was the buyback offered when Ray was running the show or after he announced that you would be taking control again?
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
|
Posted - 2008.09.10 02:17:00 -
[30]
If you care about shareholders why not put a vote up.
1. Stay in business
2. Liquidate
Let the shareholders decide, as you care for their opinion and what they. This would be the clearest way of listening to your shareholders.
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