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Ricdics
Tleilex Developments
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Posted - 2008.09.10 03:05:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: TornSoul
That I don't want to shut down BMBE (or put it to a vote) because a handfull or so here keeps yelling about it?
If you put it to a vote then you would know if it were a few or many that had reservations about the operation. I don't see why you would want to run an operation if majority of your shareholders weren't happy with it's operation.
Quote:
I *do* give a damn what shareholders say - or rather, let me rephrase that to "I do give a damn what people say".
So allow the shareholders to have their say... Through a vote.
Quote:
I give a damn if people come up with constructive posts and ideas for how to improve the service BMBE provides.
I gave you a very good option with EBANK to take up on. Instead you have all but ignored the offer choosing to forego your shareholders profits having insane amounts of idle isk on hand (what is it, currently 90% or so of NAV idle?)
Quote:
There already *was* a period, stretching months!, where Ray did buybacks.
That's why there's not 2000 public BMBE shares anymore for crying out loud.
The period has only ever been available when Ray was running BMBE at which time it was actually a pretty good investment. Prior to this you didn't allow buybacks on your watch and as soon as you have taken back over now you have restricted access again. Right now is the perfect time to allow them as you easily have the funds on hand to action them.
Quote:
Not *one* in this thread pointing that fact out...
The other fact is that you haven't allowed buybacks under your reign and BMBE in your possession has shown on every occasion thus far very poor performance.
Now, if you want constructive critisism (other than EBANK's generous offer earlier):
1) NAV is quite high so you can afford to take some risks. Reduce collateral requirements to approximately 75% and obviously accept loans on a per case basis.
2) Actually advertise your service. I am not sure how you expect to get more loans up if you aren't telling anyone but MD (most of whom run public operations, have wealthy friends or are more attuned to EBANK). Branch out to WTS offering your loans. You may be doing this but I haven't seen any threads in WTS regarding BMBE.
3) Look at rate modifications a bit. Offering 8% loans is actually a decent rate however when you have 100b+ lying around idle you really can't be too picky. Maybe offer some sweetener deals at 5-6% to try and encourage more business with BMBE. Once you have a bit more capital in use you can get the interest rates back up a bit.
4) See if you know anyone that can code a simple interface where someone can check their loan balance or even have a statement emailed to your customers each month etc.
See EBANK have been offering loans for some time and are quite well known in comparison to BMBE. The problem is that we basically have the same loan rates as you, are a lot easier on collateral requirements and have a fully integrated portal in which people can follow their loan down to the last 0.01 isk.
This puts EBANK in a position where we will be taking a lot of your prospective business by default. You need to either find a way to make your service on par with EBANK, advertise your service (we don't advertise loans on WTS), or provide some benefit that makes people just as (or more) interested in doing business with you rather than us.
We 'could' increase our interest rates on loans considerably so theres more likelihood people will come to BMBE and whilst we do want BMBE to succeed we have obligations that need fulfilling. We have set amounts we need to pay (interest) to our customers and we also need considerable amounts of capital on hand at any one time. So we need to be saavy, we need to be known and we need to continue business as normal. We can't change our structure to suit the BMBE organisation at our own risk.
Make some real changes TS. Slight interest rate changes just won't cut it. |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.10 03:28:00 -
[32]
Originally by: TornSoul
Changes have been made in the past excactly because I *did* give a damn - and listened, and acted on good and productive ideas.
I gave good and productive ideas in your monthly reports over a year ago, you ignored them then. Ray came on board, and actually implemented many of them. Ray has left and it seems your back to the same old shit.
This means my time of being "good or productive" is over, now I am just here to "rabble rabble" in your ear.
BTW you still didnt answer any of my questions in my numbers comparisions between this month and last months report. Real simple questions, IMO.
--
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Lo Lightshard
Insurrection Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.09.10 03:44:00 -
[33]
Spend some loose cash by setting mercs on E-Bank, imo (iirc) c/d?
[IMA6E REMOVED] |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.10 03:59:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Lo Lightshard
Spend some loose cash by setting mercs on E-Bank, imo (iirc) c/d?
Does E-Bank even undock?
c/d?
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EBANK Ricdic
Eve-Tech Savings n Loans
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Posted - 2008.09.10 04:05:00 -
[35]
When first created EBANK Ricdic undocked and flew to Ardallabier (quieter system). Since then he hasn't undocked. So that's about 14 months. Mercs would be an incredible waste of money against EBANK. |
Lo Lightshard
Insurrection Inc
HUZZAH FEDERATION
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Posted - 2008.09.10 04:08:00 -
[36]
Originally by: EBANK Ricdic
When first created EBANK Ricdic undocked and flew to Ardallabier (quieter system). Since then he hasn't undocked. So that's about 14 months. Mercs would be an incredible waste of money against EBANK.
bah, we will go elsewhere
[IMA6E REMOVED] |
Ambo
Dirty Deeds Corp.
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.09.10 06:02:00 -
[37]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: Ricdic
he doesn't give a damn what his shareholders say.
Excuse me? How dare you?
On what excactly do you base this?
That I don't want to shut down BMBE (or put it to a vote) because a handfull or so here keeps yelling about it?
I *do* give a damn what shareholders say - or rather, let me rephrase that to "I do give a damn what people say".
And this regardless if it's shareholders or not.
I give a damn if people come up with constructive posts and ideas for how to improve the service BMBE provides.
And I've said this in the past as well.
In that case, surely the best thing to do is to have a vote about the future of BMBE?
If, as you say, it's just a handful of MD posters that are dissatisfied then you can carry on as you are, safe in the knowledge that a majority of the shareholders are backing you.
If, however, the majority of shareholders want you to close down then surely that would be the correct thing to do? It's thier money after all.
Ok, so it's been a (very) rocky few months for dividends. I'm sure you want to have your chance at turning this around so maybe you'd be justified in waiting another month before offering the vote but I think to dismiss it entirely is both damaging to your rep and unfair on the shareholders (yeah, Eve isn't fair I know  ).
I know that the lack of shareholder input was specifically stated when BMBE started up but imo it's just stubourness and inflexibility to cling to that after so long.
I'd like to see you have the chance to turn this around but at the end of the day, it's not your money, it belongs to the shareholders. Surely they have a right to decide for themselves if they want out?
--------------------------------------
Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.09.10 06:09:00 -
[38]
How many in this thread ARE even shareholders? It seems extremely silly to me.
There's a difference between giving a friendly suggestion that TornSoul should consider liquidating and then insulting him because he doesn't want to because of a few vocal people saying so.
If there's anything that has to be decided, then a vote is in place. Not a bunch of vocal people who has a personal interest in seeing BMBE perhaps shut down.
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Amarr Citizen 155
Alternative Methods Research Group
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Posted - 2008.09.10 06:22:00 -
[39]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many in this thread ARE even shareholders? It seems extremely silly to me.
There's a difference between giving a friendly suggestion that TornSoul should consider liquidating and then insulting him because he doesn't want to because of a few vocal people saying so.
If there's anything that has to be decided, then a vote is in place. Not a bunch of vocal people who has a personal interest in seeing BMBE perhaps shut down.
I am an investor and I agree with most that has been said and would love to see a vote. Honestly, let's just call this what it is.... the lowest interest rate loan in eve.
Quote:
Ricdic (about starting ebank, July 2007): Think of it as a miniature EIB done right. I cannot see this getting anywhere near 700b any time in the future tbh.
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Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.10 06:27:00 -
[40]
For the record I am a shareholder, albeit indirectly.
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Shar Tegral
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:00:00 -
[41]
Originally by: LaVista Vista
How many in this thread ARE even shareholders? It seems extremely silly to me.
I am no longer a shareholder as of last month. I finally threw up my hands and found a buyer at listed nav. (Pure Luck mind you.) Originally by: LaVista Vista
There's a difference between giving a friendly suggestion that TornSoul should consider liquidating and then insulting him because he doesn't want to because of a few vocal people saying so. If there's anything that has to be decided, then a vote is in place. Not a bunch of vocal people who has a personal interest in seeing BMBE perhaps shut down.
Don't be mislead LVV. There is a history of poor relations between BMBE investors and TornSoul. Not BMBE, TornSoul. We are approaching 3 years of BMBE and historically most of that time has been all about investors trying to get some accountability or control of the oft-disaster that it seems to be. Mind you that is a fair statement made on the behalf of the investors. The flipside, BMBE's side, is not quite as grim a picture but it is also not too far from the above caricaturization. IMHO, I don't like the witch huntness of the whole affair however, as has been proven by the Braun clause, the only way BMBE responds to the need for change is to hound, harass, troll, flame, and grief any and all BMBE threads until something akin to reason sinks through the adamantite like substance that is Torn's skull. So, let me save you a bit of flame blasting mate. You don't know the history of BMBE half as well as you should to make any substantive suggestion or statement.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
LaVista Vista
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Posted - 2008.09.10 07:48:00 -
[42]
Shar,
for the record, I'm nowhere saying that I think BMBE is being run well. I refuse to comment on that despite the fact I have a strong opinion.
But I just think that some people in this thread should step back for a second. Their strong personal interest is not needed in this thread. That's all I'm trying to say.
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F FLETCH
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Posted - 2008.09.10 11:39:00 -
[43]
I am a shareholder, and I lost all intrest in being polite and offering constructive advice when I was refered to as ' One of the rabble ' just because I want something thats not in the master plan.
I want a vote and will keep on pushing for one no matter how many time Ray informs us it is a futile effort. I really don't see what the problem is here why can't it be offered, what is the factor that's stopping it from happening? Honestly it just seems like pig headedness to me.
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cosmoray
Cosmoray Construction
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:37:00 -
[44]
I am a shareholder (not with this toon), and I am concerned that the NAV is realistically zero, because I am not able to sell the shares. If I am able to sell the shares it will be at a huge discount to the quoted value on BMBE posts.
What value does a BMBE share have if you can't sell it, and it pays bascially zero in dividends? Money is basically written off.
I would love to see the business turned around, and the share value and action on the secondary market pick up but unfortunately I don't see it happenning due to the dynamic in the market changing (EBank).
Even if TS manages to loan out the entire 69 billion at 8% per month (5.52B profit), then the shares will still have a ROI under 5%.
69B loaned at 8% = 5.52B
Other activities (from report) = 0.489B
Total profit = 6.009B profit
ROI (6.009/124.62) = 4.82%
For a company in Eve I don't think this is investment grade for an IPO. In certain circumstances it is for a bond, but this is a long term business.
I am sorry for constantly getting on about performance, but at some point TS SHOULD listen to the shareholders and at least put a vote in place. Times change in Eve, and in this instance it is time to move on from the original IPO document.
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 15:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Ricdics
I gave you a very good option with EBANK to take up on. Instead you have all but ignored the offer
You might notice that nowhere have I dismissed the construct.
And thank you for a constructive post.
And that goes for a few others as well.
BMBE once did a WTS post, without much result...
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=379550
(and I'm still annoyed about the forum mods shutting down our posts in auctions for beeing "off-topic". Off-topic my ass...)
But I have in fact been toying with the idea of doing it again, but it needs that "certain something" to it, that I've still not quite refined.
@Treelox
I only saw you post one serious question - About the number of public BMBE shares.
And yes, I've on purpose chosen not to answer it.
That answer will have to come from Ray.
BIG Lottery |
TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 15:16:00 -
[46]
Originally by: cosmoray
I am concerned that the NAV is realistically zero, because I am not able to sell the shares. If I am able to sell the shares it will be at a huge discount to the quoted value on BMBE posts.
What do you consider a huge discount?
I know for a fact that there's plenty of buyers at NAV-10%.
BIG Lottery |
TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 15:19:00 -
[47]
Edited by: TornSoul on 10/09/2008 15:19:38
I forgot this bit...
Originally by: Ricdics
NAV is quite high so you can afford to take some risks. Reduce collateral requirements to approximately 75% and obviously accept loans on a per case basis.
I really dont like taking risks with the shareholder ISK...
Basically, I would take no RISK with BMBE ISK, that I was not prepared to do with BIG ISK (ie. next to zero)
BIG Lottery |
Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.10 15:41:00 -
[48]
Originally by: TornSoul
@Treelox
I only saw you post one serious question - About the number of public BMBE shares.
And yes, I've on purpose chosen not to answer it.
That answer will have to come from Ray.
I was leaving it for you.
But fair enough. The discrepancy in the public shares between last month's report and this month's is a result of my personal shares being bought back. When handover details were finalised I asked for them to be bought back and this was agreed on the principal that I could've sold them back to myself at any time prior to that.
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amarrcommander
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:01:00 -
[49]
Some of the great things BIG has done with the BS BPO program, the Lottery, you really fail at running an IPO just like your alliance. |
amarrcommander
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:02:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: TornSoul
@Treelox
I only saw you post one serious question - About the number of public BMBE shares.
And yes, I've on purpose chosen not to answer it.
That answer will have to come from Ray.
I was leaving it for you.
But fair enough. The discrepancy in the public shares between last month's report and this month's is a result of my personal shares being bought back. When handover details were finalised I asked for them to be bought back and this was agreed on the principal that I could've sold them back to myself at any time prior to that.
Some would call that insider trading. You knew about the hand over sold your shares before others had the chance. You knew value would drop, sold yours and now others are still stuck. |
TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:09:00 -
[51]
Originally by: amarrcommander
Some of the great things BIG has done with the BS BPO program, the Lottery, you really fail at running an IPO just like your alliance.
I'll bite...
Just because I'm in an alliance doesnt mean I automatically run it...
I assure you, LFA is not run by me at all 
And thank you for the kind words about the BIG Lottery and the BIG Deal.
BIG Lottery |
amarrcommander
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:12:00 -
[52]
Originally by: TornSoul
Originally by: amarrcommander
Some of the great things BIG has done with the BS BPO program, the Lottery, you really fail at running an IPO just like your alliance.
I'll bite...
Just because I'm in an alliance doesnt mean I automatically run it...
I assure you, LFA is not run by me at all
And thank you for the kind words about the BIG Lottery and the BIG Deal.
Talking more so about Fountain Allaince and how you destroyed that just like you have destroyed this IPO. And just as FA is in the past, let this IPO be in your past, keep your good things untainted.
So why did you allow the insider trading btw??? Seems unfair to other share holders who wanted to off load once you took over as well.. |
Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:15:00 -
[53]
Originally by: amarrcommander
Some would call that insider trading. You knew about the hand over sold your shares before others had the chance. You knew value would drop, sold yours and now others are still stuck.
It's almost the opposite. It was well after the handover was done, many months after it was announced.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:17:00 -
[54]
Originally by: amarrcommander
Some of the great things BIG has done with the BS BPO program, the Lottery, you really fail at running an IPO just like your alliance.
Said the troll in the alt-corp.
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:18:00 -
[55]
Dear amarrcommander...
Refering to FA lol... Most these days don't even know what that was
Aww ray... Now you went and spoiled the fun, I was kinda waiting to see how far he could dig himself in
BIG Lottery |
amarrcommander
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: TornSoul
Dear amarrcommander...
Refering to FA lol... Most these days don't even know what that was
Aww ray... Now you went and spoiled the fun, I was kinda waiting to see how far he could dig himself in
It was only done WAY AFTER because you didnt send the Isk and Shares when you did the transfer. So what your saying is WAY AFTER B/O's were closed you still did a B/O because you worked with the IPO, meaning an INSIDER, meaning you still got an advantage over others.
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:28:00 -
[57]
Originally by: amarrcommander
It was only done WAY AFTER because you didnt send the Isk and Shares when you did the transfer. So what your saying is WAY AFTER B/O's were closed you still did a B/O because you worked with the IPO, meaning an INSIDER, meaning you still got an advantage over others.
What?
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amarrcommander
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: amarrcommander
It was only done WAY AFTER because you didnt send the Isk and Shares when you did the transfer. So what your saying is WAY AFTER B/O's were closed you still did a B/O because you worked with the IPO, meaning an INSIDER, meaning you still got an advantage over others.
What?
When did your B/O take place? The way I have read it is it happend after last months report after B/O's were closed. Meaning you got an advantage because your an inside with the IPO.
Also, why was this not reported? Why when brought up was it ignored, and when brought up again was told I hoped Ray would post, and then magically ray appeard and posted. That tells me you tried to hide it because you know you did wrong and now your trying to not make it a bigger deal even though it is a major deal. Just curious was that in the IPO rules to do buy backs for employee's (what ever you want to call yourself) before other share holders? |
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:46:00 -
[59]
Originally by: TornSoul
BMBE once did a WTS post, without much result...
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=379550
See I just do not get how you can be so unable to get the word out. You already have 2 huge vehicles to do it with.
Why not crosspromote ammong the 3 BIG ventures. It seems so simple. For 100m isk I'll lay out the whole plan.
:)
--
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Ray McCormack
hirr
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:47:00 -
[60]
Originally by: amarrcommander
Anyone else seem to think this was insider trading?
Yes, anyone? Please?
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