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Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
28
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Posted - 2012.03.28 20:42:00 -
[31] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:I think we've all suggested most of it. I was referring to the dev pushing it through. :)
-Liang
I tried to bribe the devs with beer too for the personale tabs :D |
Cunning
The Elysian Horde
Elysian Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.03.28 21:55:00 -
[32] - Quote
The issues of personal hangars and SMAs are slightly different, but as far as I'm concerned the situation with SMAs is really worth looking into ASAP. I will also send beer for a fix to this problem, as the current situation makes it really difficult for WH corps to recruit people without opening themselves to massive risk
The solutions discussed at the wormhole roundtable (and again at the starbases roundtable - yes, that was me  ) would require no new roles or art assets, so should be fairly doable in the short term as a "quick fix" whilst CCP work on the larger goal of making POSes awesome in the longer term
Personal Hangars:
We can currently restrict newbies to one corp hangar tab, so they can only pillage from other newbies. Not all recruits are trustworthy, even when you conduct extensive background checks, so you expect some "wastage" from this tab and advise new guys not to fill it with faction mods. Generally the only things new pilots need to store is a few mods and ammo, so it's not a big deal. A small personal hangar (one structure for multiple pilots) would be a very nice solution to this, as well as allowing more senior pilots to organise/find/manage their personal stuff properly
Personal Ship Maintainance Arrays
The BIG problem is that we have no way to do the same with ships: the only way to restrict access is with the starbase technician/config equip roles, so we either have to give all our non-newbie guys these roles (dangerous, and lacking in granularity), or keep everything as corp access (dangerous, given that most personal assets in WHs are ships and their fittings). A personal SMA (subdivided between players) would be really nice, or even just the current corp division tabs in SMAs would be a significant improvement in this regard, allowing us far more granularity of asset control
Security officer role could work here just as it does in stations, and directors should be able to take stuff from member hangars/SMAs - same as the current situation in that regard, but if you don't trust your corp directors you're SOL anyway
Log all the things
Logs of access to corp hangars, SMAs etc should be available as de rigur. No idea why this wouldn't be included by default
Capital Ship Maintainance Arrays
The need to have a structure to store multiple cap ships was brought up; it seemed that the devs weren't aware that you couldn't anchor them w/o sov. Having effectively one SMA/cap is a PITA, but with the ability to on/offline them at a whim it's less of an issue now than it was
As for the other proposed WH chages: I think most of the people at the WH roundtable thought that WHs were pretty goddam cool as they are. More variety in PvE is always welcome, and the discussed addition of "Class 7" roaming unsettleable wormholes without planets would be very interesting
The biggest takeaway from the session was that these were mostly fairly minor issues: wormholes are a great place to fly, fight and live. There's plenty of scope to iterate on them, and "fixing POSes" (either with short term tweaks, or a full awesome rework) would be a massive boon, but the mood in the room was really positive about wspace and where we see it going. |
Knug LiDi
N00bFleeT
Numquam Ambulare Solus
44
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:01:00 -
[33] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Knug LiDi wrote:
Problematic for who ?
C1 WHs cannot support more than a half dozen pilots. There are insufficient resources. Any godsdamned corp that can field a dozen tier 3 BC or command ships can raze any C1 with a large tower.
There are not enough resources to support a significant number of personnel in a C1. If you kill the folks (remember no med clones) you will kill the POS. There is no ice and C1 haulers are limited to industrials - no orca, to freighters to haul fuel. WHs cannot repackage and cannot reprocess.
Yes, a fully stocked large POS is a badger down his hole, but he has very few teeth. If you come in numbers, we cannot win.
Yes, you cannot get caps or BSs to a C1 wh. but you can get numbers
I live in J100808 and you are free to come raid my tower with a dozen tier 3 BCs. Its a C2, but the same principle's there. The WH opened in Aridia. -Liang
You may notice that I focused on killing the pilots, not the structure. A C2 has sufficient opportunities and resources to feed that dozen pilots, at least. With a C1 you have 1 hisec static. Lots of folks looking for PVP, not much else.
If I had a dozen tier 3 BC pilots to spare, we wouldn't be living in a C1!
Aridia, eh? I'll check to see how far away that is
If only we could fall into a woman's arms
without falling into her hands |
Liang Nuren
Parsec Flux
1263
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:12:00 -
[34] - Quote
A few comments:
- Focusing on killing the players and starving the POS out of fuel is going to be a LONG drawn out process involving way more effort than any corp looking to move into a C1 will be able to exert. You literally have to maintain an around the clock "WH camp" for weeks on end.
- Lots of C1s have statics going somewhere other than high sec.
- A dozen tier 3 BCs would be shredded against my POS. :)
-Liang
Normally on 5:00 -> 9-10:00 Eve (Aus TZ?)
Blog: http://liangnuren.wordpress.com
PVP Videos: http://www.youtube.com/user/LiangNuren/videos
Twitter: http://twitter.com/LiangNuren
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Potamus Jenkins
The Lucky Bible Company
58
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:17:00 -
[35] - Quote
i love black hole anomalies
or as i call them, angry anus |
Shogun Archer
80
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Posted - 2012.03.28 22:23:00 -
[36] - Quote
This has probably already been proposed or asked for, but what about MOON GOO in WH's?
What are the plusses and minuses of that?
If you run into more than 2 a**holes in a day, you should probably look in the mirror. |
Nemo deBlanc
Phoibe Enterprises
16
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Posted - 2012.03.29 01:27:00 -
[37] - Quote
Liang Nuren wrote:Nemo deBlanc wrote:Ahh, should have been obvious if I actually thought about it. I'm rather fond of those C2's w/ C3 and HS static.  C3 is awesome isk and constant nullsec wh's for exploration/pew, and the HS keeps a steady flow of people either trying to move stuff out to highsec from high class wh's, or trying to run sites. Lots of PvP opportunites. Regardless, whspace= best space to me. Accommodating of so many different goals. Really glad to see that CCP is finally looking at iterating on what is essentially several year old content. I dunno - I've been eyeing the C2 with null/C5 exits lately. The C5 WH is pretty awesome ISK if we form up to actually run them (fat chance, really) but the null sec exit will probably bring better pew pew than low sec does these days. Back before I was originally banned we lived in a C3->Low and had a good time most nights.... but low sec is just ******* dead outside of FW areas these days. Seems like we could accomplish a similar goal with the C1s->Nulls except that the nullbears wouldn't be able to bring their BS's in after us. The other night I literally went 45 jumps in Kador/Sinq without seeing anyone else in local. Not even AFK docked/POS'ed people. The roam covered 80 jumps and saw 2 other faces in local. :S -Liang
Yeah, lowsec really has curled up and died it feels like. It was pretty hot when Crucible first landed, most alive I think I've personally experienced it. Honestly though, nullsec doesn't feel much better to me. Half the NS wh's I get are dropping me into super heavily botted/otherwise vacant drone space. The risk free PvE in nullsec disgusts me a little bit, in all honesty. Feels incredibly broken. |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
87
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Posted - 2012.03.29 02:17:00 -
[38] - Quote
Aine Ni wrote:-BMs
Alliance BMs
Drag-and-drop BMs to chat - \o/
Would that also mean eve-mailing bookmarks? In the very early versions of EVE it used to be possible to attach bookmarks as attachments to EVEmails.
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
discordigant
Royal Amarr Institute
Amarr Empire
2
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Posted - 2012.03.29 02:39:00 -
[39] - Quote
All this talk of C1's being invulnerable.... Are you all high? Learn to control exits, build ninja towers and BS production chains and stop with your bad poasting. I for one have participated in many C1 bashing's and they are very profitable as all the C1 people doing T3 production are under the illusion there operations are safe.
The size of the tower in a C1 has never mattered but if they only allow small towers in a C1 then it will stop people living in them altogether and they will become a wasteland, i for one am happy with C1's the way they are it is a good starting place for noob corps to learn and i have integrated many a noob that has started their WH beginnings from C1 ventures.
I really would not like to see tower restrictions on any size hole its like a rabbit hole we don't want to plunge into. If we start stopping people building large towers in C1-3 then why should people in C3-6 be allowed multiple towers its just an ever expanding amount of BULLSHIT really.
I do look forward to some of the other changes though and i know someone allready said there was no recordings of this but can a CCP person please post the notes to these discussions or at the very least start a blog about these changes... So our new overlord errr i mean our beloved new CSM Chair Twostep can get to weeding out the BS from the good. |
Trinkets friend
Obstergo
Persona Non Gratis
253
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Posted - 2012.03.29 04:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
Right, here's the thing about C1's you are all missing. The value of a C1 is not its sleepers - you clear them out occasionally for a bit of ISK and to stop people getting tempted by said ISK to siege you. C1 sites do give great ISK/hr, but the smart way to expoit C1 sites is with a C2 with Z647/B274.
C1's are valuable for one reason, and one reason alone; the basic invulnerability of the towers to siege allows your nullsec power bloc XO's and their uber-rich superelite to splash out on a tower per moon (large, for prefs) and then run freaking gigantic BPO churning factories, gas processing operations, drug cooking operations and the like with absolutely no risk to the operation at all.
If you try this in lowsec, like a few amateurs do, some day someone will RF your tower and bork your cook. You try this in nullsec, you have even less of a chance. But a C1, well, people can't evn get a damn BS inside, and the effort required to RF a truly deathstarred POS with spare onlineable guns (now instantly onlined) with BC's or below...is prohibitive. Plus you can control the entry if you need, and that's a chokepoint that is hard to control 23.5/7. One minute before downtime, you can lose control in an instant
discordigant, above, claims to have sieged many POSs in C1's. I'd like to see how many big fat deathstars he's taken down - because in my mind you cannot count on "control exits, build ninja towers and BS production chains". For a start, if you ever find -AAA-'s lab hole or xDEATHx's gas hole or the drug hole some other nullsec bloc controls, and decide to extract candy, you'll be trying to "control exits, build ninja towers and BS production chains" underneath a pile of DUCK or Exhale. T3's because the incumbents have a billion ISK a week operation to protect and you're threatening it
Sure, you can take out nub corps and amateurs with one medium tower any time you want to have a lol and waste 6-8 hours times 20 toons, but these aren't the towers, nor the C1 systems full of them, what anyone should be concerned with
To my mind, restricting to small towers in C1's isn't the way to go. While this would prevent people from cooking drugs (you'd need a medium on PG requirements for any reactions), it would make it impossible to utilise anything in a wormhole. THis isn't a problem for the C1's with N110 statics, but the Z060 nullsec holes would empty out immediately because in this situation you do need to manufacture stuff yourself. You can't do this on a small tower.
Secondly, small towers are too fragile. it is not impossible to get 10-20 bored eople wash up into a wormhole, find a small tower, and RF it for luls on a whim. I know this for a fact, Sudden Buggery would RF small towers inside 2-3 hours because it was something to do. With tier 3 BC's you can now bring Battleship DPS into C1's and all you need is logistics to keep them alive....which isn't a problem when you saturate a small tower's 2 or 4 online guns with 20 targets.
The solution may be increasing the mass allowance for certain classes of wormholes; the non-static connections (I182, T405's, etc) so that you can bring capitals through them. This would not allow capitals to sneak into hisec via a N110, nor to move predictably about w-space (how often does a T405 open in most C3's? monthly? quarterly?) but it would up the ante significantly and enable Sudden Buggery style opportunistic capital assaults. For instance, if you had a non-static open between a C5 with a bored dread pilot and a C1 laboratory fortress, who wouldn't just jump a covops through, follow with a dread, and RF the damn lot of them (then stay logged off for a month until a random exit opens so yu can GTFO).
This would, coincidentally, result in no one technically having straned caps in low-end w-space if you were able to wait long enough, you would eventually get your capital out. But realistically you can ignore the possibility of POSs in w-space providing un-siegable capital factories because it would just be too unpredictable and naffed to reliably get them out.
Believe me, the threat of random piratical dreads rocking up into a system loaded with 30 basically defenceless lab POSs owned by a 4 man research alt corp of -AAA- would sort the problem instantaneously.
The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man.
Sun Tzu
@trinketsfriend on twatter
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Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
30
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Posted - 2012.03.29 20:22:00 -
[41] - Quote
I like the idea of very rare cap wh - would also make c2-4 more "killable" - which I think they need be (Am currently living in a C2) |
Kurai Okala
Okala Corp
1
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Posted - 2012.03.29 22:04:00 -
[42] - Quote
Interesting... thanks for posting your notes! |
Bane Nucleus
The Kairos Syndicate
Transmission Lost
7
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Posted - 2012.03.29 22:30:00 -
[43] - Quote
I don't understand what's so hard about killing a POS in a C1 or other lower end wormhole. Sure you can't bring it battleships (in the case of a c1), but that just means you have to plan better.
Please, if I am missing something, let me know. |
Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
31
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:00:00 -
[44] - Quote
Well - I have seen a 20+ man BS fleet with 4 logis get killed by a Large tower in C2 with no player support (Plus this was not a fully deathstar).
What would a deathstar vs max BC be able to kill on it's own ? - And that is not talking about the defender could have a few caps in support, along with more players - not saying you cannot kill a POS - give me 1000 players and no defenders - but what are the odds for that ? |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Project Wildfire
251
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
Okay, cool story but when can we expect CCP to start making these changes?
Also, did they mention a change in sleeper behavior that would see them camping WH's and attacking POS's?
The solution to the real problems in WH space can be solved with the POS revamp, so the sooner CCP pull their finger out, the better. |
Acac Sunflyier
Burning Star L.L.C.
140
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
It would be really cool if sleepers attacked POSes. It might help clear out abandoned POSes.
Sometimes, the best thing to do is have a random moment of compassion. |
Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
31
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:23:00 -
[47] - Quote
The one thing they TALKED about doing soon was personale tabs - as it is keeping players from requiting new players to WH corps. The rest is more a "maybe" winter exp. thing. |
Rek Seven
Probe Patrol
Project Wildfire
251
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
Acac Sunflyier wrote:It would be really cool if sleepers attacked POSes. It might help clear out abandoned POSes.
I'd like to sleepers to attack online POS's but i want the ability to unanchor abandoned POS's either using the T2 code breaker or a new salvage POS module. |
HARD STEEL
LOW TAX HIGH GLORY
4
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:34:00 -
[49] - Quote
what about sleepers attacking poses? if they had a dread that would be sweet
sleeper pos incursions lol |
Mallikanth
L V B Industries
57
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:40:00 -
[50] - Quote
Good Stuff. Thanks for this.
Shame it was on a roundtable. Thought I'd missed WH news on the eve TV broadcasts 
Believe in what they do, not what they say.
Occasionally posts stuff as @Hamerhead
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Roime
Shiva Furnace
390
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Posted - 2012.03.30 11:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
Sleepers should really roam around in the wormholes, I find the mechanism that NPCs are tied to anomalies in general very boring.
Abandoned poses should either unanchor themselves after a certain time, or then turn into ruins: "Abandoned Control Tower" and free the moon.
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Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
33
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Posted - 2012.03.30 14:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
@Dead POS
Greyscale talked about they would unackor after 2 weeks of not being fueled as an idea - but sounded like an issue that was surely going to be done something about.
@Roundtable vs "presentation"
I must say I preferre roundtables - as you get much more back and frowth. Plus - things like the WH roundtable lasting almost 3 hours would not have happened on the live stream :D
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Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
34
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Posted - 2012.03.31 14:52:00 -
[53] - Quote
little bump :) |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
97
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Posted - 2012.03.31 15:41:00 -
[54] - Quote
"New WHs between WH regions"
Can some WH-player explain this one?
Also how about CCP coming up with a new ship. A battleship-sized baby-dread with one XL turret and a very good tank (but no siege-mode), for taking out POS in high-sec and lower wormholes?
I have to say the idea of a rare cap-sized hole to the lower WH sounds cool as well.
http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Aine Ni
Some Really Meaningless Name
34
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Posted - 2012.03.31 23:27:00 -
[55] - Quote
"New WHs between WH regions"
The idea was for empty WHs (No plantes or moons) that connect the different regions of WH space. As it is now - WHs are divided into region - that only connect though HS.
Still think black ops should be givin XL weapons - to kill super caps - just like SB kill mini caps - would be so cool :D |
Gantz Tleilax
Tleilax Foundation
55
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Posted - 2012.04.01 07:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Thank you for posting. Wish we had some of this stuff now. |
Frying Doom
Black Thorne Corporation
Black Thorne Alliance
136
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Posted - 2012.04.01 08:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Thanks for posting this, it all looks really interesting.
Any Spelling, gramatical and literary errors made by me are included free of charge. |
Rimase
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse
Sanctuary Pact
12
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Posted - 2012.04.02 11:40:00 -
[58] - Quote
(SUGGESTION)
Quote:Description: 1000+ly Cynosural Field Generator
an unreliable empowered-range variation of a Cynosural Field Generator specifically for unknown solarsystems commonly discovered by Wormholes. A Specialized Tech2 variation.
Bonus: Allows Portal-Jumping to wormhole spaces.
Risk: (1) Allows anyone to Portal-Jump in. (2) 4.5% chance of T2 Cynosural Field becoming a (new) 'Vacillating Wormhole' upon Portal-Jumping in.
Quote:Information: Vacillating Wormhole
Vacillating Wormholes are dangerous and must not be approached. Wormholes are inherently unstable and a vacillating wormhole is an escalated term named for its visual disturbed appearance. Its power varies as its space-tread is multipular and not one direction, literally inviting anyone or anything into the zone.
Within range they will sap ions and digest light-weighted atoms furiously but spaceships at immediate close-range will be vacuumed.
Shields and Capacitors will slowly drain.
All ammunition including Missiles and Drones will be vacuumed.
Spaceships attempting to enter will be spat out the other side at an incredible, dangerous velocity.
The typical vacillating wormhole appears as a less dangerous, more common unstable wormhole on the other side. There are multiple entrances to the Vacillating Wormhole.
The Vacillating Wormhole will invite NPCs who disturb Sleeper Drones (NPC vs NPC!).
(whole range of NPCs including, most rarely, Jovians!)
[*] The Vacillating Wormhole will invite players from all over the universe, spitting them out at high velocity (Multiple entrances). - |
AP John
Lone Star Exploration
Lone Star Partners
1
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Posted - 2012.04.03 08:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
This sounds great, let's see how much CCP actually does.
Cheers. |
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