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Calling for consistency in EULA punishment

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XavierVE Concordiat Concordiat Alliance 63	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:13:00 - [1] - Quote When the controversy over CCP's micro-transactions last summer was at it's peak, dozens of players were banned for "harassment", with many other threatened. Players like Helicity Boson were banned for telling a Dev to "die in a fire", as a prominent example. Others were banned for even less inflammatory verbiage. Some of them still remain banned, despite doing nothing more than speaking truth to CCP. I almost was banned just for asking players to post a simple "boo" at CCP Soundwave over his Fearless article. CCP employees were indignant about "the level of harassment" against him during the controversy. Yet, calling for players to harass someone until they commit suicide, that's apparently okay provided that they don't work for CCP. CCP has no consistency with how they enforce their EULA. There are separate rules depending on "who you are." If any of us "normal" players had written the words that Mittani spoke at Fanfest, we would have been automatically banned from the forums and in-game. If you wrote an eve-mail to your corp advocating that they go harass another player who was known to have mental issues until he committed suicide, you would be perma-banned in-game. Players in the past have been banned for simply helping police the game, one player to the point where you can't even speak his name because he exposed the t2 blueprint scandal years ago. Perhaps if he had been on the CSM, such behavior would have been acceptable, eh? The devs and company treats their friends and drinking buddies far differently than they treat the average player. The average player would have been instantly banned. You would have been instantly banned for doing even half of what Mittani did on video at fanfest. It would not have taken players pointing it out to the gaming media, it would have been done as soon as a GM or dev saw the harassment. It would not have required some sham "investigation." Whether or not you agree with their rules, everyone should agree that the company should apply them consistently no matter who the player is. Either remove the rules against harassment, etc, or enforce them across the board fairly and logically.
baltec1 864	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:15:00 - [2] - Quote Yet another one, this is becoming tiresome.
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2292	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:17:00 - [3] - Quote Excellent. Thanks for the free publicity The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Vertisce Soritenshi Varion Galactic Tragedy. 1354	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:18:00 - [4] - Quote In all honesty it is CCP's EULA and they can enforce it however they want. This could have gone in one of the other threads...perhaps the 41 page threadnaught for this specifically? I do agree with you however. Mittani should not get special treatment for what he did. If others get banned and have been banned for doing things similar to what he did then he should also be banned. If not, it will set a bad precedent and essentially makes the EULA pointless. EvE is not about PvP.-á EvE is about the SANDBOX! - CCP!-á Open the door!!!
Azami Nevinyrall Apple Construction Inc Northern Associates. 67	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:27:00 - [5] - Quote The Mittani shouldn't get any special treatment, if it was anyone of us we would've been insta banned. The fact the he hasn't been banned shows CCPs stance in the situation. They might just be waiting for this to blow over, also kinda sucks when people working for news broadcasters learn about these things...
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2292	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:28:00 - [6] - Quote Azami Nevinyrall wrote: The Mittani shouldn't get any special treatment, if it was anyone of us we would've been insta banned. The fact the he hasn't been banned shows CCPs stance in the situation. They might just be waiting for this to blow over, also kinda sucks when people working for news broadcasters learn about these things... Oh boy...NCdot's renter alliance is mad about Goons. The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Rasquel Greater Order Of Destruction Happy Endings 0	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:31:00 - [7] - Quote Just for my clarification, are you referring to something that was done using the software that the EULA pertains to or outside of the software, like at Fan Fest or something where the EULA is not applicable?
Kaivar Lancer General Exports 127	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:31:00 - [8] - Quote +1 to the OP. I lost confidence in the CSM and CCP's ability to handle this matter. It's a corrupt charade where favouritism rules. And I'm expected to pay for this? Who are they kidding?
Xython Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation 341	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:34:00 - [9] - Quote Kaivar Lancer wrote: +1 to the OP. I lost confidence in the CSM and CCP's ability to handle this matter. It's a corrupt charade where favouritism rules. And I'm expected to pay for this? Who are they kidding? Hurry up and finish quitting the game, your death knell is getting tiresome.
Ghoest 286	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:34:00 - [10] - Quote Its all about money dude. And Its CCPs game so they can do what they want. Mittens leads Goons = many subscription = no ban Mittens People calling out CCP = lost subscriptions = ban hammer Seriously how hard is this to figure out. Goons have 1000s of subs, thats important. Wherever You Went - Here You Are

Sponge Blib Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:40:00 - [11] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Its all about money dude. And Its CCPs game so they can do what they want. Mittens leads Goons = many subscription = no ban Mittens People calling out CCP = lost subscriptions = ban hammer Seriously how hard is this to figure out. Goons have 1000s of subs, thats important. Simplistic reasoning for simplistic people. I'm certain you just convinced a lot of people.
Cindy Marco Expanse Security 68	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:40:00 - [12] - Quote That is an interesting point. I remember all those bans, some of them were for practically nothing. The EULA should be enforced consistently. Weather it is banning the people involved in this, or unbanning those from the Incarna/Fearless incidents, along with bonus SP for the time they've been banned.
Kaivar Lancer General Exports 128	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:43:00 - [13] - Quote Xython wrote: Kaivar Lancer wrote: +1 to the OP. I lost confidence in the CSM and CCP's ability to handle this matter. It's a corrupt charade where favouritism rules. And I'm expected to pay for this? Who are they kidding? Hurry up and finish quitting the game, your death knell is getting tiresome. Yeah, I'm off.
Khanh'rhh Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 921	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:43:00 - [14] - Quote Considering that not everyone who was at fanfest was even an Eve player, I am simply amazed that they were all abound by the EULA, some of whom will never have even seen it. Can any internet lawyers help out here? We need guidance! All of you clutching at some law / rule he has broken to try to oust him is getting pretty funny. I read on Twitter he may have violated the Farmville TOS, too. Can we get a ruling on whether someone who does that is even allowed in Iceland??! - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's
Ghoest 287	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:43:00 - [15] - Quote Sponge Blib wrote: Ghoest wrote: Its all about money dude. And Its CCPs game so they can do what they want. Mittens leads Goons = many subscription = no ban Mittens People calling out CCP = lost subscriptions = ban hammer Seriously how hard is this to figure out. Goons have 1000s of subs, thats important. Simplistic reasoning for simplistic people. I'm certain you just convinced a lot of people. Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Ladie Harlot GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 2293	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:44:00 - [16] - Quote Ghoest wrote: Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. So what you're saying is that CCP would be dumb to **** off 10,058 paying accounts just to appease some NPC corp alts who are mad about goons? The artist formerly known as Ladie Scarlet.
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 236	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:45:00 - [17] - Quote I do think Mitts is going to get some type of punishment, but damn, can we let the process work first? Let CCP do their investigation first to see what they find.
Ghoest 287	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:46:00 - [18] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Ghoest wrote: Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. So what you're saying is that CCP would be dumb to **** off 10,058 paying accounts just to appease some NPC corp alts who are mad about goons? Ummm thats the dumbest response you have ever given. I said exactly the opposite. Wherever You Went - Here You Are
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 237	Posted - 2012.03.26 20:47:00 - [19] - Quote Ladie Harlot wrote: Ghoest wrote: Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. So what you're saying is that CCP would be dumb to **** off 10,058 paying accounts just to appease some NPC corp alts who are mad about goons? Yea I see what you are saying, but man, trying to get someone to commit suicide...thats Brutal, even by EVE standards. Thats the type of attention CCP doesnt want Im sure.
Khanh'rhh Red Federation RvB - RED Federation 921	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:02:00 - [20] - Quote Montevius Williams wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Ghoest wrote: Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. So what you're saying is that CCP would be dumb to **** off 10,058 paying accounts just to appease some NPC corp alts who are mad about goons? Yea I see what you are saying, but man, trying to get someone to commit suicide...thats Brutal, even by EVE standards. Thats the type of attention CCP doesnt want Im sure. Go watch the video. If you can't distinguish drunken comments shouted into a mic after the presentations are over from an attempt to murder by proxy then you have serious issues. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's

XavierVE Concordiat Concordiat Alliance 71	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:11:00 - [21] - Quote Montevius Williams wrote: I do think Mitts is going to get some type of punishment, but damn, can we let the process work first? Let CCP do their investigation first to see what they find. What exactly is there to investigate? No investigation was needed to ban Helicity, Kugu, or any of the other people who have been banned for "breaking the EULA", no matter how nebulous their offense. The fact that they have to "investigate" this is simply insulting to the rest of the playerbase, who needs no investigation. One EULA for everyone, not a separate set of standards and practices for people who they fly to Iceland to have drinks with.
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 237	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:11:00 - [22] - Quote Khanh'rhh wrote: Montevius Williams wrote: Ladie Harlot wrote: Ghoest wrote: Money is pretty simple. People protect it. When you grow up you learn this. So what you're saying is that CCP would be dumb to **** off 10,058 paying accounts just to appease some NPC corp alts who are mad about goons? Yea I see what you are saying, but man, trying to get someone to commit suicide...thats Brutal, even by EVE standards. Thats the type of attention CCP doesnt want Im sure. Go watch the video. If you can't distinguish drunken comments shouted into a mic after the presentations are over from an attempt to murder by proxy then you have serious issues. Being drunk has nothing to do with it. Yell fire in a theatre, yada, yada, yada... And I dont think my statement above mentioned anything about murder. Try again.
Montevius Williams Eclipse Industrial Inc 237	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:13:00 - [23] - Quote XavierVE wrote: Montevius Williams wrote: I do think Mitts is going to get some type of punishment, but damn, can we let the process work first? Let CCP do their investigation first to see what they find. What exactly is there to investigate? No investigation was needed to ban Helicity, Kugu, or any of the other people who have been banned for "breaking the EULA", no matter how nebulous their offense. The fact that they have to "investigate" this is simply insulting to the rest of the playerbase, who needs no investigation. One EULA for everyone, not a separate set of standards and practices for people who they fly to Iceland to have drinks with. Fair enough. I just believe in due process, but I get what you are saying.
Andski GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 3423	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:14:00 - [24] - Quote XavierVE wrote: Montevius Williams wrote: I do think Mitts is going to get some type of punishment, but damn, can we let the process work first? Let CCP do their investigation first to see what they find. What exactly is there to investigate? No investigation was needed to ban Helicity, Kugu, or any of the other people who have been banned for "breaking the EULA", no matter how nebulous their offense. The fact that they have to "investigate" this is simply insulting to the rest of the playerbase, who needs no investigation. One EULA for everyone, not a separate set of standards and practices for people who they fly to Iceland to have drinks with. so you're saying that CCP should just ban Mittens like they did Mulla because that's CLEARLY A GOOD IDEA when 10,058 paying accounts voted for him clearly you're dumb "WeGÇÖre a professional Merc Alliance, like PL" ~ snot shot, 2012
XavierVE Concordiat Concordiat Alliance 74	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:17:00 - [25] - Quote Montevius Williams wrote: Goon defense of their leader No, I'm saying... Either they should ban Mittani or unban Mulla. If they don't want to ban their little precious, then unban people like Mulla who didn't do anything nearly as egregious as Mittani did. And secondly, that perceived popularity shouldn't lend one to be immune to the EULA that we all have to abide by.
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1188	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:20:00 - [26] - Quote XavierVE wrote: Montevius Williams wrote: Goon defense of their leader No, I'm saying... Either they should ban Mittani or unban Mulla. If they don't want to ban their little precious, then unban people like Mulla who didn't do anything nearly as egregious as Mittani did. And secondly, that perceived popularity shouldn't lend one to be immune to the EULA that we all have to abide by. All this talk about violations of the EULA, but not one person has proven he did, or was in a position to even be CAPABLE of breaching the EULA of a game he was not playing at the time. PS I have zero issue with freeing Mulla or Helicity or whoever. The bans for the protests were stupid.
XavierVE Concordiat Concordiat Alliance 75	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:26:00 - [27] - Quote Feligast wrote: All this talk about violations of the EULA, but not one person has proven he did, or was in a position to even be CAPABLE of breaching the EULA of a game he was not playing at the time. PS I have zero issue with freeing Mulla or Helicity or whoever. The bans for the protests were stupid. He broadcast an EVE players name for harassment in-game. If I go write a blog on a personal website that says... "Feligast in EVE is psychologically imbalanced, everyone should get on their EVE accounts and go harass him so that he kills himself. He has expressed suicidal thoughts before, let's send him over the edge!" I'll be banned by CCP if they know my account information. Any eve player advocating for the in-game harassment of someone, especially with the stated goal of getting the person to commit suicide has violated the EULA. The EULA does not just cover in-game actions when it comes to the intellectual property of CCP. Hence, CCP needs to be consistent in their EULA. If you're not going to enforce it because one player is perceived popular, then don't enforce it for Joe Average EVE Player who wouldn't merit a second thought if he did the same thing. Or take the easier route and enforce it consistently for all.
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1189	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:30:00 - [28] - Quote XavierVE wrote: Feligast wrote: All this talk about violations of the EULA, but not one person has proven he did, or was in a position to even be CAPABLE of breaching the EULA of a game he was not playing at the time. PS I have zero issue with freeing Mulla or Helicity or whoever. The bans for the protests were stupid. He broadcast an EVE players name for harassment in-game. If I go write a blog on a personal website that says... "Feligast in EVE is psychologically imbalanced, everyone should get on their EVE accounts and go harass him so that he kills himself. He has expressed suicidal thoughts before, let's send him over the edge!" I'll be banned by CCP if they know my account information. Any eve player advocating for the in-game harassment of someone, especially with the stated goal of getting the person to commit suicide has violated the EULA. The EULA does not just cover in-game actions when it comes to the intellectual property of CCP. Hence, CCP needs to be consistent in their EULA. If you're not going to enforce it because one player is perceived popular, then don't enforce it for Joe Average EVE Player who wouldn't merit a second thought if he did the same thing. Or take the easier route and enforce it consistently for all. So a person who made that blog post, but had no EVE account, would be banned if they ever signed up for one, right? Because that's what you're saying, anything posted on the internet even MENTIONING EVE is subject to the EULA, which is just stupid. I still haven't seen the portion of the EULA that applies here.
XavierVE Concordiat Concordiat Alliance 75	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:32:00 - [29] - Quote Feligast wrote: So a person who made that blog post, but had no EVE account, would be banned if they ever signed up for one, right? Because that's what you're saying, anything posted on the internet even MENTIONING EVE is subject to the EULA, which is just stupid. A person who has no EVE account hasn't agreed to the EULA by signing up to have an EVE account. So is your defense now that Mittani never signed up for an EVE account?
Killer Gandry V I R I I Ineluctable. 103	Posted - 2012.03.26 21:35:00 - [30] - Quote Feligast wrote: All this talk about violations of the EULA, but not one person has proven he did, or was in a position to even be CAPABLE of breaching the EULA of a game he was not playing at the time. PS I have zero issue with freeing Mulla or Helicity or whoever. The bans for the protests were stupid. You may not abuse, harass or threaten another player or authorized representative of CCP, including customer service personnel and volunteers. This includes, but is not limited to: petitioning with false information in an attempt to gain from it or have someone else suffer from it; sending excessive e-mails, EVE-mails or petitions; obstructing CCP Employees from doing their jobs; refusal to follow the instructions of a CCP Employee; or implying favoritism by a CCP Employee. Don't know howmany braincells you have, but I can clearly see someone else suffering from is by being called out by name and called out to be harassed. You may not use GÇ£role-playingGÇ¥ as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy. This doesn't only hold true for roleplayers but also for those who are drunk and violate those rules. Being drunk isn't an excuse. You may not do anything that interferes with the ability of other EVE Online subscribers to enjoy the game or web site in accordance with its rules. This includes, but is not limited to, making inappropriate use of any public channels within the game and/or intentionally creating excessive latency (lag) by dumping cargo containers, corpses or other items in the game world. Ingame mail is publicly available, by calling out to abuse this to harass someone can be classified under this rule. You will not encourage others to break these rules or any rules set forth in relation to EVE OnlineGÇÖs game service or web site. By calling others out to harass this player he actually invokes others to break the none harassement rule. So he encourages others to break a rule.



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