| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
c4 t
   |
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:33:00 -
[1]
Edited by: c4 t on 09/09/2008 19:32:50
i dont follow gtc prices very much but i know just a few months ago they were at 400m for a 60 day code. it seems like the supply is really not meeting the demand at this point in time. im curious why, anybody have any ideas?
____________________________________________________________________
mostly harmless |
Ilza
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:38:00 -
[2]
Don't know but it sucks! 
|
c4 t
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:41:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: c4 t
Edited by: c4 t on 09/09/2008 19:32:50
i dont follow gtc prices very much but i know just a few months ago they were at 400m for a 60 day code. it seems like the supply is really not meeting the demand at this point in time. im curious why, anybody have any ideas?
by the way i am not dumb and i have my own ideas but i would like to hear the ideas of others as well. not saying my ideas are good, but im not asking to be spoon fed like a wittle baby
____________________________________________________________________
mostly harmless |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:48:00 -
[4]
I've actually had to report a few "false" sales. I.e. "!" Seller puts up GTC for 500 and some unknown accepts that. Set up a series of these and you have a trend of market manipulation. The only solution, refuse to pay more than what you think and let supply increase.
That'll fix the market, you don't have to buy gtc's after all.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 19:49:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 09/09/2008 19:52:54
Oh and btw, could you replace your ____ line with [ /quote ]. It gets you the divider like my sig without breaking the forums like your solution does. (And it gives you more text room too!)
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
c4 t
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:03:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 09/09/2008 19:52:54
Oh and btw, could you replace your ____ line with [ /quote ]. It gets you the divider like my sig without breaking the forums like your solution does. (And it gives you more text room too!)
thanks for the tip.
manipulation of gtc prices, didnt think of that. i dont buy gtc's yet because that cripple what little capital i have at this moment but i do check that forum from time to time.
mostly harmless |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:10:00 -
[7]
Originally by: c4 t
Edited by: c4 t on 09/09/2008 19:32:50
i dont follow gtc prices very much but i know just a few months ago they were at 400m for a 60 day code. it seems like the supply is really not meeting the demand at this point in time. im curious why, anybody have any ideas?
Because people who shell out real bucks for in-game money don't want to do it quite as much as they used to?
Do you honestly expect anyone to know the specific motivations behind all the GTC buyers?
|
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:12:00 -
[8]
Originally by: c4 t
Originally by: c4 t
Edited by: c4 t on 09/09/2008 19:32:50
i dont follow gtc prices very much but i know just a few months ago they were at 400m for a 60 day code. it seems like the supply is really not meeting the demand at this point in time. im curious why, anybody have any ideas?
by the way i am not dumb and i have my own ideas but i would like to hear the ideas of others as well. not saying my ideas are good, but im not asking to be spoon fed like a wittle baby
So you have ideas, but you don't wanna tell us, you just want us to tell you... yet you claim to not want to be spoon fed like a baby?
Sorry, those seem to be conflicting statements. How about you share your ideas first.
|
Shar Tegral
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:14:00 -
[9]
Originally by: c4 t
manipulation of gtc prices, didnt think of that. i dont buy gtc's yet because that cripple what little capital i have at this moment but i do check that forum from time to time.
The primary flaw in price expectations is that the value of a GTC is totally subjective. Right now that value is being driven by the buyers some of which have created an artificial spike. Then you have people who simply get stuck and have to buy whatever the market is selling regardless of good sense. The ideal method of interacting with the TC Bazaar is simply to buy not when you need but when opportunity is there. Like any other market it is. Oh and have a definitive I won't pay line. If you see that being exceeded, better to pay CCP direct then to give more than you care to pay. The more people realize this to be so, the quicker the buyers react.
To Shar -verb:
1 - To say what you mean.
2 - To say what it means.
3 - To say something mean. |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:23:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Oh and have a definitive I won't pay line. If you see that being exceeded, better to pay CCP direct then to give more than you care to pay. The more people realize this to be so, the quicker the buyers react.
This is not a plausible solution for many. I know that I personally will never pay a single penny for EVE again. I play because I play for free through GTC's I buy with ISK. If that was removed for some reason I'd quit. Thus I don't really care what the price is for a GTC, I'll pay it. I have a feeling a lot of people are in a similar boat. People with 3-10 alts aren't going to shell out 45/150 a month to play EVE, they'll either cut back to 1-2 chars or just quit altogether if they can't buy GTC's.
Perhaps people with plenty of disposable income (like people who buy the GTC's to sell the for ISK) can decide to simply pay an extra 15-30-45 or more per month whenever they wish. Not everyone these days has an extra 15+ per month to spend on EVE, they've become accustomed to not paying and thus will have a hard time scraping it together. I know some people think 15 bucks is nothing, but it can be a lot of money to some people. I have a friend who barely can afford her rent + meals + school each month, she doesn't play mmorpgs because she can't afford to. She doesn't even have highspeed internet anymore because the cheapest in the area is 30+ per month.
So I would say you'll see quite a few people quitting eve about the same time you see people paying instead of using GTC's. Granted this will reduce demand, but not in a good way for the game. Thus CCP has quite a bit of motivation for keeping the prices moderate.
|
Panzerkom
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:31:00 -
[11]
a dissertation can probably written on this subject. but i think someone on the TC Bazaar board wrote something very good a couple of days ago. the author of that piece concluded that the price spike is temporary and is due to a large number of people who play on GTCs whose time are expiring; the author further predicted that the price will come down in a month or so.
|
Rho'varo
Minmatar
Diversified Operational Services
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 20:54:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Shar Tegral
I've actually had to report a few "false" sales. I.e. "!" Seller puts up GTC for 500 and some unknown accepts that. Set up a series of these and you have a trend of market manipulation.
Taking a quick look, I didn't notice any apparent "false" sales trying to pull prices down. Why wouldn't that underhanded technique be employed by both sellers and buyers (and ultimately cancel itself out)?
|
Kazzac Elentria
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 21:02:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shadarle
I have a feeling a lot of people are in a similar boat.
Yes |
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 21:04:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Panzerkom
a dissertation can probably written on this subject. but i think someone on the TC Bazaar board wrote something very good a couple of days ago. the author of that piece concluded that the price spike is temporary and is due to a large number of people who play on GTCs whose time are expiring; the author further predicted that the price will come down in a month or so.
This conclusion seems to defeat itself very quickly if you look at the logic behind it.
Theory: People's accounts are expiring that relied on GTC's thus they are buying more GTC's now causing the price to go up temporarily but in a month or two prices will go down.
Flaw: In a month or two all the people who have bought GTC's in the past month will need new GTC's because they will again be out of time.
Since we have no way to know for sure how many people have bought GTC's on which days (unless someone wants to data-mine the forums and count them), I think we have to assume that there is a fairly equal volume from day to day, week to week. Perhaps with slightly larger spikes on certain days of the week (weekends perhaps) and after major patches. But it seems presumptuous to assume demand is not steady and instead has major spikes every 2 months, thus assuming most people buy their GTC's at the exact same time.
|
Sicil Fioet
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.09.09 23:47:00 -
[15]
Originally by: c4 t
Originally by: Shar Tegral
Edited by: Shar Tegral on 09/09/2008 19:52:54
Oh and btw, could you replace your ____ line with [ /quote ]. It gets you the divider like my sig without breaking the forums like your solution does. (And it gives you more text room too!)
thanks for the tip.
manipulation of gtc prices, didnt think of that. i dont buy gtc's yet because that cripple what little capital i have at this moment but i do check that forum from time to time.
There's only temporary manipulation going on in form of bumping other people's posts from long time ago that have low GTC prices or creating many WTB posts at high prices. This, however, is only a short term manipulation that is practiced by very few buyers and sellers and doesn't work all that well. Long term price fixing requires formation of seller cartels where all GTC sellers would agree to sell codes no lower than a certain price. With thousands of different people coming to the GTC forum to sell codes every week, I do not see how this is possible although several attempts have been made on the sellers' side to form such cartels. Because many people sell GTCs with alts and not regularly at that you'd have significant problems trying to fix game time code prices.
I've been observing the GTC market and the spike really started just like 2 weeks ago. Both GTCs and characters are more expensive to buy now. It is hard to say whether this is due to higher demand or lower supply or both, but I am thinking it is the demand that has picked up. It is possible that the spike is simply due to increasing number of people starting to play EVE again - coming back from their summer vacations and trying to reactivate their accounts as well as purchase new characters to play with in fall and winter.
Another source of rising GTC prices is that farmers dropped their prices on ISK by almost 2x ($60->$30/1b ISK). If i was some silly ISK buyer I'd be seriously tempted to buy from farmers right now instead of buying game time codes. This is of course CCP's fault that they are not restraining RMT as they should be doing.
|
Market Garden
Operation Market Garden
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 00:05:00 -
[16]
It is evident that both sellers and buyers of gtc's are creating fake threads/bumping old threads to order to try and manipulate prices in their favour. Sellers want more isk for their money, and buyers want their time for cheaper.
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 05:41:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Bloody Rabbit on 11/09/2008 05:41:59
Originally by: Market Garden
It is evident that both sellers and buyers of gtc's are creating fake threads/bumping old threads to order to try and manipulate prices in their favour. Sellers want more isk for their money, and buyers want their time for cheaper.
I know you all don't know me, that's fine.
But yesterday I sold 2 60 day GTC for 500 million, took at least 30 mins per 60 day code. Then with the other 2 I didn't wish to put the time in so I sold them for 480 per to a single person. Had that person not buy the 2 I won't have sold them for that but they did.
Now I can't attest to the other deals but I can tell you that my deals were real and players are really willing to pay those prices for GTC because like yesterday there was myself and another who were selling with 15 buyers spamming the channel. If you don't like the price, tough go buy GTC with money or don't buy.
As for why I had 4, I was buying 2 and the website had a problem and I reloaded it; ended up buying 4 not 2.
Originally by: Galliana Foresta
And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er. 
|
Cergorach
Amarr
The Helix Foundation
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 05:51:00 -
[18]
Put up a buy order for 495M isk last tuesday, the guy that responded didn't have much patience and retracted it within 10-20 minutes (was away for a few hours). Then someone starts selling a pile orf GTCs for 430M isk, bought one for that price ;-)
So there are people who are willing to spend 500M isk for a 60 day GTC, but there are also people who are willing to sell much lower. Kind of depends on how much isk you have ands how much you want that character active.
|
Bloody Rabbit
Jita Miners
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 15:36:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Cergorach
So there are people who are willing to spend 500M isk for a 60 day GTC, but there are also people who are willing to sell much lower. Kind of depends on how much isk you have ands how much you want that character active.
I have found from watching the channel that the weekend and USA night time is when the most GTC sellers are on (HINT!!!!) and the weekdays is when the most buyers are online. So time yourself for the best success.
Originally by: Galliana Foresta
And sewer rat may taste like pumpkin pie, but I'd never know 'cos I wouldn't eat the filthy mother ****er.
|
Gothica Goth
|
Posted - 2008.09.11 22:30:00 -
[20]
One reason there can be spikes in GTC prices is the change from 30 day to 60 day codes. Assuming buyers were spread evenly, one month after the 60s were introduced there would be lower demand, the next higher and so forth till things even out.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 13:19:00 -
[21]
If you want to see something really interesting, go to eve-search.com and type in 'howard haines'.
Now look at the posts it finds, and the char's that are buying GTC's for him, and the other chars they're buying GTCs for, and so on, until you get a list of all the char's that are 'connected' through buying GTC's for each others, I tried this many months ago and came up with I think 500 differnt chars all from the same isk selling sweatshop.
I reported this to CCP and was told they did something about it, but just tonight, I find buying GTC's for 500m a char by the name of fudanzhong (eve search to see how many different chars he's buying for, it's impressive. And another lingqidian, who is connected to the afformentioned 'howard haines'.
Between them, these two alone can buy a few dozen cards per day at least, from macro farmed isk. The isk cost them no time at all at the keyboard, so they will pay anything for GTCs, no matter what the cost, and they're eating up a huge amount of the supply. If any of their GTC'd chars gets banned, they simply make a new one and continue, with 30 day cards this was cheaper for them but now when they get banned (if) they lose 60 days of time. Which means even more demand for GTCs. I'm willing to bet that more of these chars were banned recently and so the GTC demand has risen sharply as they restablish their accounts. What really shocks me is how a network like this can be so completely obvious and yet CCP seem to ban one account at a time.
|
Kephael
Caldari
LEAP Corp
Ursa Stellar Initiative
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 14:04:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Lord Fitz
If you want to see something really interesting, go to eve-search.com and type in 'howard haines'.
Now look at the posts it finds, and the char's that are buying GTC's for him, and the other chars they're buying GTCs for, and so on, until you get a list of all the char's that are 'connected' through buying GTC's for each others, I tried this many months ago and came up with I think 500 differnt chars all from the same isk selling sweatshop.
I reported this to CCP and was told they did something about it, but just tonight, I find buying GTC's for 500m a char by the name of fudanzhong (eve search to see how many different chars he's buying for, it's impressive. And another lingqidian, who is connected to the afformentioned 'howard haines'.
Between them, these two alone can buy a few dozen cards per day at least, from macro farmed isk. The isk cost them no time at all at the keyboard, so they will pay anything for GTCs, no matter what the cost, and they're eating up a huge amount of the supply. If any of their GTC'd chars gets banned, they simply make a new one and continue, with 30 day cards this was cheaper for them but now when they get banned (if) they lose 60 days of time. Which means even more demand for GTCs. I'm willing to bet that more of these chars were banned recently and so the GTC demand has risen sharply as they restablish their accounts. What really shocks me is how a network like this can be so completely obvious and yet CCP seem to ban one account at a time.
Take a look at how they are acquiring characters, http://eve-search.com/thread/829677/page/1#10.
The network of isk farmers is indeed massive, I wish people did not sell characters and GTCs to such obvious isk-farmers.
|
Lord Fitz
Project Amargosa
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 14:56:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Kephael
Take a look at how they are acquiring characters, http://eve-search.com/thread/829677/page/1#10.
The network of isk farmers is indeed massive, I wish people did not sell characters and GTCs to such obvious isk-farmers.
But of course if people didn't they will just keep raising their offer until someone does, the isk cost them no effort at all to acquire, they can afford to offer as much as is needed. I personally wouldn't sell them a GTC as you risk having it taken off you for buying isk or some such ;)
|
21 Salvager
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 15:19:00 -
[24]
Here's another major GTC buyer, I count 24 accounts with junk names an no standings in-game:
bszcl
|
Darktec
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 17:22:00 -
[25]
Either way, GTC prices are INSANE atm, 500 mill is more than the 90's were going for.
I hope ccp does something soon, as they said in the sticky in the Timecode forum.
|
Shadarle
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 17:54:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Darktec
Either way, GTC prices are INSANE atm, 500 mill is more than the 90's were going for.
I hope ccp does something soon, as they said in the sticky in the Timecode forum.
Why exactly should CCP do something about it? Why are high prices bad? If you can't afford one then don't buy them, prices will then drop on them if enough people can't afford them.
It's supply and demand. Either there is too much demand or too little supply, or both.
Personally I don't care what the price is. Many people on this forum make more isk in a single day than the cost of a GTC, so the prices are relatively low still if you ask me.
Heck even mission runners should be making at least 10 mil/hour. Thus 50 hours to buy a GTC. 50 hours in 60 days, .83 hours per day of mission running to pay for a GTC. Doesn't seem too extreme. If it is then pay the 15 bucks instead, you know, 2 hours of minimum wage in the US. Or spend 50 hours in game.
|
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 18:04:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Darktec
Either way, GTC prices are INSANE atm, 500 mill is more than the 90's were going for.
I hope ccp does something soon, as they said in the sticky in the Timecode forum.
LOL!!!!!
Why should this be CCP's problem? The only price they set is the RL curreny price of the Game Card.
It is your fellow players that are charging, and even worse paying what you see as "insane prices".
If you and half of those whining about the current prices, would just suck it up and pay for a month or two of your play time with a credit card. Prices on GTC's would fall.
Seriously these prices eb and flow, I dont understand why people dont buy when GTC's are cheap instead of only when they REALLY need one. Buying from a position of desperation, just means you will be a "victim" of the market.
--
|
Darktec
Caldari
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 19:25:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Darktec
Either way, GTC prices are INSANE atm, 500 mill is more than the 90's were going for.
I hope ccp does something soon, as they said in the sticky in the Timecode forum.
Why exactly should CCP do something about it? Why are high prices bad? If you can't afford one then don't buy them, prices will then drop on them if enough people can't afford them.
It's supply and demand. Either there is too much demand or too little supply, or both.
Its because people will just go out and buy isk to buy the gtc, and yes, i know how stupid that is, but you can get isk cheaper than one month of eve, and if say you can buy a bill for 20$, spend half on a gtc, you get 60 days for 10 bucks. thus ccp loses money.
It is the players problem, but its also CCP's
|
Clair Bear
Coalition of Nations
Free Trade Zone.
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 19:37:00 -
[29]
Awesome, we're now well over 500M and pushing 600M for 60 day gtcs. You know what that means? Fewer alts of the 'stuff I make is free lol!' set out providing excess capacity.
I hope this trend continues toward the 1B/60D ceiling predicted.
|
Treelox
Amarr
Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party
|
Posted - 2008.09.13 20:14:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Darktec
Originally by: Shadarle
Originally by: Darktec
Either way, GTC prices are INSANE atm, 500 mill is more than the 90's were going for.
I hope ccp does something soon, as they said in the sticky in the Timecode forum.
Why exactly should CCP do something about it? Why are high prices bad? If you can't afford one then don't buy them, prices will then drop on them if enough people can't afford them.
It's supply and demand. Either there is too much demand or too little supply, or both.
Its because people will just go out and buy isk to buy the gtc, and yes, i know how stupid that is, but you can get isk cheaper than one month of eve, and if say you can buy a bill for 20$, spend half on a gtc, you get 60 days for 10 bucks. thus ccp loses money.
It is the players problem, but its also CCP's
May they all be ban'd from the game, that much sooner. Most of those sorts of people fail darwinistically on a regular basis and make up a huge base of the whiners, IMO.
--
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |