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gtc prices seem to be on the rise

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Srioghal moDhream	Posted - 2008.09.17 20:06:00 - [61] Originally by: Shavana 2. I remember when a 90d cost only 400m.. you tell me what YOU find acceptable! LOL 400m you got ripped off, I paid for this game for 2 years for two accounts and never paid over 330m for a 90 day card. But now because of these prices instead of getting $15+ a month for each of my accounts CCP now only gets $11.00. True they have a guaranteed income for 12 months, but let's face it most of us will still be playing this game in 12 months any way. And I get to keep that 12+ billion isk in my pocket. Yes 12+ billion isk for 2 accounts to play with gtc's for a year. Thats ~46m isk/$ or ~$22/billion.
Ceola Tyn'Vile	Posted - 2008.09.18 15:07:00 - [62] Edited by: Ceola Tyn''Vile on 18/09/2008 15:08:04 Originally by: Shavana I agree with everyone to some extent.. However, there were/are a lot of players thar have multiple accounts and cannot afford them unless paid via GTC. If all those players are forced to lose 1 or 2 accounts due to the sharp increase in GTC prices then EvE actually loses a lot of revenue because GTC are no longer in heavy demand. So if demand for them drops what do you think will happen to the price lol. If no one buys them at 500mil the price will go down. Really all I notice is people whining that the price is going up. If it is that big of a deal why doesn't he buy some GTC's and sell them for what he sees as the "right" price. edit implicated the thread op as whining, but this is the different thread :)
Punctator	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:49:00 - [63] this is only my opinion about why gtc prices are so high it is because of ultimate bots and people who use it are destroying eve online. sometimes ago someone stolen some client code and i belive russian or chines wrote bots who can make missions and make impossible fraction standings... Look on local - you will see person who play 1 month and have 10.0 with caldari state and amar. it is impossible to make such standing in one month for normal player, and how many new characters have that high stands... many... many with noob ships, iteons, badgers - you kill them and thay always return. eve online is dying in my opinion. for those players GTC prices are doesnt matter, because they do notheing to earn this money. Meybye we will see 2b for 60 day for two months. i dont know, but eve without good market is not fun and i think i will stop playing eve befour 2 months. all gtc traders should stop sell gtc - isk does not have currency value - but not all players know about that.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.18 22:58:00 - [64] Originally by: Punctator it is impossible to make such standing in one month for normal player Not really, you just dont know the "trick". If you spend 4-6hrs a day running missions for a transport agent, you can get these sort of standings. --
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.19 02:31:00 - [65] Originally by: Shavana 2. I remember when a 90d cost only 400m.. you tell me what YOU find acceptable! I find whatever price the market will bare to be acceptable, I gather you think the market needs to be manipulated or controlled, thus it is you who must give a set number as to what is/isn't acceptable to you. You then must tell us if this number must be the number that is used for everyone else as well. What if someone else says your number is way too high and not reasonable and they want it to be half your number. Who is right, you or this other person. Thus the problem with arbitrary prices that any one person dreams up. The only price that will ever work is the price that the market will bare. You are free to not buy them if this angers you. You are free to quit EVE if you can't afford to play without GTC's. This will then reduce the demand for GTC's as more people quit, making them GTC's more affordable for thus who still play. We will be sure to thank you for quitting and leaving us with cheaper prices. Either way. I don't really care if I pay 400 mil or 2 bil per gtc. I can afford GTC's for the rest of my life on all my accounts no matter what the price goes to. If you can't then that's your problem, not mine nor anyone elses here..
Punctator	Posted - 2008.09.19 09:48:00 - [66] i know all legal tricks. sometimes i spent 10h makeing missions and i make lot of transport missions too, lot of lev 4 with good social too. it is impossible to make 10.0 standings in one month character who plays only 1 month, because that characters dont have learning skills, dont have social skills, and some expensive skill in social. If some group of mission runners will help that person, than maybye it is possible, but scale is to big to belive in that. how many transport missions can you make in 6h? Sometimes in transport missions are mining and clound harvest missions too. So if you reject that mission you neet to wait some time to rejest next mission if you are not lucky. How many missions and storys you need to make on lev 1 mission to have 10.0 fraction standing... i think thousends, and if you make 60 in 6h (1 missions 6 min but it is impossible)... use calculator. so if this reality i am saying is right macrominers and bots - this is the best player in eve and it is sort of funny. Try to talk to someone who is bot? Nobody answer, or auto rejest mode is on. All big alliances without bot supply cant even make money for supply thousent of their player owned structures, because ice mined by true players should cost 4-10x more then now i think. If ccp dont change anythink we will have in eve pure titan fleets and where is fun? so future eve are for bots? if yes make it legal and give bot software on eve site ore build options in eve client, but then normal players run from the world of eve and it is sad, because all this players like eve and want to play but no in world where bot players are so powerfull. and if this reality i am saying is not right please tell me why only 18k players are on server - sometimes ago there was 40k players day by day.
21 Salvager	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:43:00 - [67] Originally by: Punctator please tell me why only 18k players are on server - sometimes ago there was 40k players day by day. There were 31,872 players on-line at the peak yesterday. See http://eve-offline.net/?server=tranquility Also, can you give some examples of these odd-looking characters with 10.0 faction standing? I haven't really looked, but I haven't seen any.
Punctator	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:41:00 - [68] sorry i dont make lists of bots on eve but i have on local somethink like that. check "uuendcall" - she play 18 days and have 3.63 to gallente federation - she is for me pretending to be bot. dont answer to invite, operate in low sec in shuttle or iteon mark IV. i fly behing her in ceptor and wath. always she has lag befour gate jump or undock station, always the same, go to low sec and watch cerfully. i dont know what stad she will have after one month... lets watch it xD.
Scoutsy Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.09.20 01:34:00 - [69] Originally by: c4 t Edited by: c4 t on 09/09/2008 19:32:50 i dont follow gtc prices very much but i know just a few months ago they were at 400m for a 60 day code. it seems like the supply is really not meeting the demand at this point in time. im curious why, anybody have any ideas? Maybe the supply problem is because so many of us are struggling with increasing costs in RL? I'm flabbergasted at the amount of whingeing and whining going on - if you don't like the prices don't pay them. If you really want to moan about something move to the UK and buy some petrol (that's gas for our US friends) or try pay your electricity or gas bill. Now THAT'S something to moan about....
Deakka Caldari SofaNinja Industries	Posted - 2008.09.22 07:14:00 - [70] Edited by: Deakka on 22/09/2008 07:15:04 Edited by: Deakka on 22/09/2008 07:14:14 I think it more has to do with it now being easier to make money in EVE. Consider that 5 years ago, having 100 M was a real achievement. I know thats a long time ago, but I think that in a few months the prices of GTC's will have gone up again. Better missions, better modules to mine, better trade establishment, as the mechanics improve and players can make money in better ways through game advancement there is more money to be spend and the prices rise. Inflation =) As for the issue of GTC's being able to bought with isk.. Essentially, as other people stated here, ISK is being bought with real-life currency, through GTC's. Even tho I am a happy user of these GTC's myself, I do have to be honest and note that it defies most game standards. As I do not find it normal that people are able to buy themselves 'better' in a game, means that your real-life situation in a way can improve your position in the game, so long for equal chances.
Haseda	Posted - 2008.09.22 09:10:00 - [71] Originally by: Deakka I do have to be honest and note that it defies most game standards. As I do not find it normal that people are able to buy themselves 'better' in a game, means that your real-life situation in a way can improve your position in the game, so long for equal chances. Supposedly it is a way for casual gamer to make it up to someone who spends a lot of hours playing the game. Unfortunately people abuse the system and buy ISK simply whenever they want to. I have no problems with a guy who plays <10 hours a week selling a code or two to pvp on the weekends. I do have a problem with people who use game time codes to buy way more ISK than they could have earned playing the game themselves.
21 Salvager	Posted - 2008.09.22 10:56:00 - [72] Reply to GTC prices and amount sold: Needs analysis by Dr. EyjoG if you want some real analysis.
Marketman	Posted - 2008.09.22 12:38:00 - [73] Edited by: Marketman on 22/09/2008 12:43:51 As a long time seller of GTC's ( I cant stand ratting or mission running) I dont really see what the problem is here.. I have a commodity to sell and I sell at the highest price I feel it can achieve. Buyers are also selling a commodity, their time spent making the isk, they also want to achieve the best return possible Last week GTC's were selling at 600-650 during the day, by the time I logged into the Eve website they were still selling at 580- I went slightly under and sold at 550 for a quick sale and achieved it quickly. Today when I went onto the website they were selling for 530-550, as I had some time I put up at 600, one sold at that price when no-one else was around, as other traders came on-line I reduced my prices to stay competitive. the last ones sold at 525. If thats what the market will bear I , and any other GTC trader, would be an idiot to deliberatly sell for less. If a buyer doesnt think their time is worth paying that much then dont buy the GTC when prices are high. it is still possible when lots of sellers are online to get a GTC for @ 450-480 Demand is outstripping supply at the moment and it is a sellers market- Often the people pushing the prices up are not the want to sell orders, but the want to buy, desperate to get a GTC they high bid all others on the forum thats called basic economics, even a dumbass like me knows that
Mass Extinction	Posted - 2008.09.24 13:56:00 - [74] Originally by: Treelox Now you see thats the funny thing, GTC's are "worth" exactly what people will pay for them. Not what you wish you could pay for them. A perfect example of a free market in action. And a perfect example of why free markets dont work for anyone but the seller.
Slinkus Gallentus Gallente Infinite Order	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:30:00 - [75] It just occurred to me that we can ruin this overinflated market given enough players. You accept an invitation to buy a code, but dont complete the deal. I believe the deal can be there for 48 hours unless it is accepted or cancelled. This would put the greedy's time codes on hold for up to 48 hours. At the end of the 48 hours they get no sale. Sellers would be left with the time code that they have already paid for and it would soon become a burden for them to try and off-load. This would take a co-ordinated effort, but in principle it would work. I might even start a website with this in mind if I get enough support. cheers "Life is not one big joke. Life is 40,000 little jokes all lined up"
Kitchie Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:39:00 - [76] Originally by: Mass Extinction Originally by: Treelox Now you see thats the funny thing, GTC's are "worth" exactly what people will pay for them. Not what you wish you could pay for them. A perfect example of a free market in action. And a perfect example of why free markets dont work for anyone but the seller. Huh? How do you work that out? If the prices were forced down by CCP, fewer people would want to sell and more people would want to buy. You'd end up with a situation like Russia before Perestroika, where people had to queue for days for basic goods because demand outstripped supply. The GTCs just wouldn't be there for people to buy. Worst of all, you would create a "non-secure" black market where people sold GTCs for what people who really wanted them would be willing to play and the scammers would be back. Prices balance to a level where there are enough buyers willing to pay a given price for whatever volume of goods are available.
Kitchie Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:41:00 - [77] Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus You accept an invitation to buy a code, but dont complete the deal. I believe the deal can be there for 48 hours unless it is accepted or cancelled. This would put the greedy's time codes on hold for up to 48 hours. At the end of the 48 hours they get no sale. Sellers would be left with the time code that they have already paid for and it would soon become a burden for them to try and off-load. Sellers can cancel the offer anytime they want. If they haven't been taken up in 15 or 20 mins, that's usually what they do and sell to someone else.
Mass Extinction	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:43:00 - [78] That's absolute nonsense and not supported by history. When there was not a monopolised product, ie. when you could buy either 30 or 90 day GTC, there was no shortage of GTC sellers. I suggest you do Economics 101 before you post again.
Mass Extinction	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:46:00 - [79] Originally by: Kitchie Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus You accept an invitation to buy a code, but dont complete the deal. I believe the deal can be there for 48 hours unless it is accepted or cancelled. This would put the greedy's time codes on hold for up to 48 hours. At the end of the 48 hours they get no sale. Sellers would be left with the time code that they have already paid for and it would soon become a burden for them to try and off-load. Sellers can cancel the offer anytime they want. If they haven't been taken up in 15 or 20 mins, that's usually what they do and sell to someone else. Here's the rub. Will they get a proper sale or someone who is just holding them up again?
Kitchie Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:50:00 - [80] Edited by: Kitchie on 24/09/2008 15:54:01 Originally by: Mass Extinction That's absolute nonsense and not supported by history. When there was not a monopolised product, ie. when you could buy either 30 or 90 day GTC, there was no shortage of GTC sellers. I suggest you do Economics 101 before you post again. Who has this Monopoly? From what I see there are hundreds of different sellers. CCP don't set any ISK price on GTCs, it's purely up to the sellers. If it's a cartel, you could break it by buying 100s of GTCs and selling them cheap. Think of it, you could end this "Monopoly"! One of the benefits of the secure system is that you can't resell GTCs bought for ISK, they're automatically added as gametime to your account so market manipulation by buying cheap, selling high doesn't work.
Mass Extinction	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:51:00 - [81] Originally by: Kitchie Originally by: Mass Extinction That's absolute nonsense and not supported by history. When there was not a monopolised product, ie. when you could buy either 30 or 90 day GTC, there was no shortage of GTC sellers. I suggest you do Economics 101 before you post again. Who has this Monopoly? From what I see there are hundreds of different sellers. CCP don't set any ISK price on GTCs, it's purely up to the sellers. If it's a cartel, you could break it by buying 100s of GTCs and selling them cheap. Think of it, you could break this "Monopoly"! It's a monopolised PRODUCT. ie. there is no alternative product to buy. Maybe you should do Comprehension 101 too.
Kitchie Gallente Kitchie's Logistics and Marketing Corp	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:57:00 - [82] So tell me, who is it who has this monopoly and is reaping the benefits of the higher prices? Makes no difference to CCP, they get the same amount whether bought by a player for his own time or a GTC seller. According to you, someone has engineered a monopoly in order to get a higher selling price. I still can't see who it is you're referring to.
Juliette Leblanc Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:08:00 - [83] Originally by: Mass Extinction Originally by: Kitchie Originally by: Slinkus Gallentus You accept an invitation to buy a code, but dont complete the deal. I believe the deal can be there for 48 hours unless it is accepted or cancelled. This would put the greedy's time codes on hold for up to 48 hours. At the end of the 48 hours they get no sale. Sellers would be left with the time code that they have already paid for and it would soon become a burden for them to try and off-load. Sellers can cancel the offer anytime they want. If they haven't been taken up in 15 or 20 mins, that's usually what they do and sell to someone else. Here's the rub. Will they get a proper sale or someone who is just holding them up again? It may work against some of the occasional sellers. **** them off and basically make them stop selling. Reduces the number of sellers, therefore unbalancing the market more. In the end it will push prices up. It would not work against any of the regular sellers. A regular seller knows the market and knows how to take advantage of it with no need for manipulation of any kind. And will avoid those manipulations too. Here's how it works for a regular trader: - he keeps a stock of 5 to 10 GTCs, restocking when needed. - he sells GTCs for ISK during market highs (and purchases GTCs for ISKs for his own accounts during market lows). - he sells only a handful of codes during each "high" in order not to flood the market. - he plans for the long term: rising a given amount of ISKs by selling GTCs over a period of several quarters or even multiple years. - he does his homework: whenever an offer is not accepted in a reasonable time he researches the poster character finding out his alts and eventually his friends, and just put them on his "black list" not offering them any more GTC ever
Tasko Pal Heron Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:33:00 - [84] Edited by: Tasko Pal on 24/09/2008 16:34:15 Originally by: Mass Extinction It's a monopolised PRODUCT. ie. there is no alternative product to buy. Maybe you should do Comprehension 101 too. It's not a reading comprehension problem here. Technically, if one restricts one's point of view to in game only, there is a monopolist since CCP ultimately is the source of GTCs, whether it be one flavor of GTC or several. But a wider perspective shows that CCP has to compete with other games and hence isn't a true monopoly when you consider the larger RL market out there. And it's clear that the GTC market is not a monopoly since there are many people selling GTCs and it's not hard to become a GTC seller (just use your credit card). Second, a monopolized product is a product produced by a monopoly (especially used when compared to the same product in a hypothetical competitive market), not a product with no substitute goods.
Kera Delacour Royal Black Watch Highlanders	Posted - 2008.09.26 12:41:00 - [85] Edited by: Kera Delacour on 26/09/2008 12:45:35 Edited by: Kera Delacour on 26/09/2008 12:42:39 all I know is that for over a year now I have paid for my 2nd account with isk. I won't be doing that any more at current prices. Used to be you could get 30d for 150m, 90 for about 380m. Now it's 400+m/60 and that, to me, just isn't worth it. I've switched my 2nd acct back over to credit card and am eriously considering selling my alt and just canceling my 2nd acct. EVE just isn't worth all this hassle. And the 60d cards just aren't worth 400m isk. That's 200m/month. Not to mention CCP is charging $35/card which is 17.50/month which is highway robbery imo. To be honest I'm surprised more players aren't screaming about the underlying price of the GTC's. It's a blatantly obvious money grab by CCP.
Cergorach Amarr The Helix Foundation	Posted - 2008.09.26 12:53:00 - [86] I'm all for people that will stop buying GTCs with isk, that just means less demand, lower prices for those that do want to buy GTCs for isk ;-)
Khryesiis	Posted - 2008.09.27 12:07:00 - [87] Considering there is a worldspread financial crisis going around right now, I imagine that a lot of people who were previously buying GTC's for real money and selling them for ISK just might use that money on something else right now. In addition to that, some people who spend a lot of time in the game might be reluctant to spend real money on the monthly fee and prefer saved up ISK. This would explain a fall of supply and a rise of demand.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.27 22:32:00 - [88] Originally by: Kera Delacour Edited by: Kera Delacour on 26/09/2008 12:46:06 all I know is that for over a year now I have paid for my 2nd account with isk. I won't be doing that any more at current prices. Used to be you could get 30d for 150m, 90 for about 380m. Now it's 400+m/60 and that, to me, just isn't worth it. I've switched my 2nd acct back over to credit card and am seriously considering selling my alt and just canceling my 2nd acct. EVE just isn't worth all this hassle. And the 60d cards just aren't worth 400m isk. That's 200m/month. Not to mention CCP is charging $35/card which is 17.50/month which is highway robbery imo. To be honest I'm surprised more players aren't screaming about the underlying price of the GTC's. It's a blatantly obvious money grab by CCP. As has been discussed extensively when the changeover occured, CCP is not trying to gouge their market for an extra $2.50/mo. They are trying to avoid loses as they have an extensive international (European) playerbase and the American dollar has been tanking for a while. Maybe they should just sell GTCs in pounds or euros and then us Americans would really have something to wine about.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.27 22:39:00 - [89] If you can't afford to pay for your alts with Isk right now there is a pretty awesome "power of two" deal going on. What I really love about this price explosion is that it places a pretty heavy burden on small time traders that just focus on making enough to cover accounts. Now more people need to either trade off their main account and thus split their game time for trading or they have to make considerably more isk just to break even. Once more small traders burn out trying to raise 600-800m just to play the game competition will relax and market conditions may become more favorable. This is why I'm switching to a trash everything policy on a good number of items .
Taram Caldar Noir. Trinity Nova Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.28 12:45:00 - [90] Originally by: Enihcam Xes Originally by: Kera Delacour Edited by: Kera Delacour on 26/09/2008 12:46:06 all I know is that for over a year now I have paid for my 2nd account with isk. I won't be doing that any more at current prices. Used to be you could get 30d for 150m, 90 for about 380m. Now it's 400+m/60 and that, to me, just isn't worth it. I've switched my 2nd acct back over to credit card and am seriously considering selling my alt and just canceling my 2nd acct. EVE just isn't worth all this hassle. And the 60d cards just aren't worth 400m isk. That's 200m/month. Not to mention CCP is charging $35/card which is 17.50/month which is highway robbery imo. To be honest I'm surprised more players aren't screaming about the underlying price of the GTC's. It's a blatantly obvious money grab by CCP. As has been discussed extensively when the changeover occured, CCP is not trying to gouge their market for an extra $2.50/mo. They are trying to avoid loses as they have an extensive international (European) playerbase and the American dollar has been tanking for a while. Maybe they should just sell GTCs in pounds or euros and then us Americans would really have something to wine about. Doesn't matter what currency they charge in. If CCP can't charge consistantly with other games in the Genre they will lose players. EVE is a decent enough game but it's not really better than most other major MMO's out there. When the price starts going up players will vote with their wallets. CCP is making a mistake with these 60d GTC's. As evidence? Most of the folks I know who have multiple accounts are letting their extra accounts lapse or switching them over to monthly credit card accounts. No matter how CCP slices it they're going to wind up losing money. The ISK prices for GTC's now are insane (500m????) and the currency prices for GTC's aren't worth it either. Right now I, like others, am planning to switch my 2nd account to a monthly credit card plan and only activate it when I need to train a new skill set, allowing it to lapse and set long skills at the end of each 30 day period, thus reducing how much CCP is getting from me by more than 50%. If the price of monthly fees goes up? Both my accounts will be cancelled. CCP is making a mistake here. The MMO market needs to re-evaluate it's prices given economic times. Raising prices when people have less ready cash is 100% the wrong direction to be going. Keep them the same and/or find ways to give players more economical ways to play is the way to go. GTC sales for REASONABLE ammts of isk are really the best way. Allowing GTC isk prices to spiral out of this world only guarantees one thing: Less income in the long run no matter how much they charge for them in currency.

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