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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.09.21 09:38:00 -
[31]
Any feedback from fresh manufacturers?
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arfon maine
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Posted - 2008.09.22 00:38:00 -
[32]
I am very new to manufacturing and greatly appreciate the advice that you have given.
IMHO tech one shield, turret and bay item (as a basic mission runner) drop like leaves from the trees. Where I am based, even with level 5 Production Efficiency there is no way to make money out of these items as the Price History show that most of the sales on these items are simply from mission runner who hit click and sell for buy orders.
I'd love to hear that I have misunderstood that stats - but that's how I'm reading tham atm
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PaperLion
Gallente
Old Man Industrial and Mining
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Posted - 2008.09.26 22:17:00 -
[33]
I'm a new manufacturer. I like making ships, purely from a "I made a ship" perspective. There's ~ 5 - 10% profit on most of the BPC's I've bought. I haven't done the math on the things you suggest, so I'm not sure what a respectable margin is. My corp has 100mm isk earmarked for manufacturing, clearly we're not going to get rich at 5-10% with the sale of a few ships a week.
In general, we're in a relatively low volume area. If we want to get serious about production, we probably need to move and figure out a few BPO's to purchase. Your guide has given us plenty to think about.
PL
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.03 14:45:00 -
[34]
That is the point of tread - to be an eye opener. Thank you for your comments.
Other thing to take into account is this:
With my skills I can run 10 production lines.
With my skills I can put 269 sale (and buy) orders.
So bottleneck is manufacturing, not slow sale if there is one.
That is why I focus on items that bring good ISK/day per manufacturing line not just pure % profit.
Even if they go slow in one region I just sell them in couple of close regions or switch production to next item with good Isk/day per manuf. line.
My bottom line is 5mil/day.
Most of items are 8-15mil/day.
All of those items are Tech I.
So with 10 production lines running full time that's 50-150mil per day (profit).
Not much as mining but I'm ok with it.
Also I mix in some trade that brings me also same amount per day.
o/
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Yacko
Gallente
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.04 07:55:00 -
[35]
Great post, and some very nice replies. It has given me something to think about.
 Originally by: Aluka 7th
So with 10 production lines running full time that's 50-150mil per day (profit).
Not much as mining but I'm ok with it.
o/
Jeepers, 50+ mil per day manufacturing? Are you playing eve full time? At any rate, very nice.
I would like to add that I am very casual and don't have the means to always stay on top of what to sell where. I have found a system where I mine and manufacture my goods and sell in another system close by. I sell items that are related to each other. In this case it is for a typical Caracal T1 setup. This seems to work, mostly because folks can one stop shop for their goods rather than tripping all over the place. In other words I can raise the price a bit. If folks have to go looking else where for even one item, it increases the odds they can find the other items cheaper there as well. It is in a relatively out the way system, well away from Jita (I prefer it this way).
IMO, the biggest thing is to know your market and supply what it needs. Whether you base out of a single station like myself or specialize in a small array of items and sell them in multiple stations. And do make sure you can make more selling the item than mining and just selling the mins. I frequently see items for sale that are less than min cost. I have found deals where isk was made by buying the items to reprocess and then resell the mins (a rarity, but happens).
To figure the cost to produce you can make a spreadsheet. Or perhaps there is one floating about somewhere that you can pick up. These are great tools to keep track of what BPO/BPC's you have and the cost to produce. Saves time from punching numbers into a calculator. Perhaps your corpmates may have one.
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.04 14:26:00 -
[36]
:) actually I spend less then hour on manufacturing on avrege per day.
If I need to go AFK for few days I just put larger items or amounts in manufacture line.
Although I did spend more time to decide what to sell and to start production/sale.
Yacko regarding your comment, I agree selling typical load-out for ships is smart.
I on the other hand sell full product range. I.e. if I sell drones I sell all types with all additional items in one station.
Fly safe o/ |
Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.29 17:22:00 -
[37]
Bump for new readers.
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Bambi
Existentialist Collective
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Posted - 2008.10.29 20:24:00 -
[38]
You made some nice points there mate for the newbies, it's a lot more enjoyable being a 'carebear' when you make good ISK.
I have been building things since 2003, and your guide woulda have been handy back then.
Its always worth checking the market graphs for the items you are planning to build and sell, smaller profit when you are shifting 100's a day is better than a larger profit from 1 or 2 items a day. Demand is the key.
By the way these is no profit AT ALL to be made from Tech II ammo so don't anyone bother going down that road ;-)
EVE is dead, long live EVE!
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.31 08:48:00 -
[39]
This tread would help me few years ago :)
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Cheopis
Ardishapur Ammunition and More
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Posted - 2008.10.31 09:34:00 -
[40]
Pretty well done for a basic into, trade volume can be a misleading indicator on item popularity though - especially when mineral prices jump a bit.
Why is this? Scrapmetal recyclers will buy anything and everything that they can turn back into minerals and make a profit on the exchange.
The best sign of something that has a good sales future, is if you calculate your cost to make something, and see that the lowest sale price for that item over an entire region is BOTH significantly higher than your cost AND higher than the highest buyer's price.
If you see buy order prices higher than the lowest sell order prices, that almost always indicates that the market is either glutted, or the items just aren't wanted and the recyclers are the only ones buying.
It doesn't hurt to take a closer look if the highest buy order is much higher than the next highest buy order though - as someone might have placed a nice, profitable buy order because they don't want to run to 47 different solar systems to collect stuff. Unfortunately these buy orders don't normally stay up long because the freighter people tend to find them too  You don't normally have time to manufacture items for these orders.
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.10.31 13:13:00 -
[41]
Cheopis, you are right. That is good way to check item profitability, also its good to have one-two days of sale volume in stock so u can dump it on market fast b4 u start your production line again so you can fill good order or fill the gap in supply.
->This is not the case for items that have volatile price like t2 manufacturing components. Avoid stockpiling these :)
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Jurgen Cartis
Caldari
Interstellar Corporation of Exploration
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:50:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Aluka 7th
- You can sell items for greater price if you are 2+ jumps away from cheaper guy in same region, because people don't fly around for 2-3 items to save 5%.
QFT. As amusing as it is to see someone lower prices to 0.01 isk below someone who is 23 jumps away and in lowsec, it's not good business practice to compete with people who don't affect your market.
In other words, we're lazy and CBA to travel 5 jumps to save <1m. The travel threshold depends on player, but most of us are lazy and don't comparison shop on mods or ammo, which is why so many people shop at jitamart.
-------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn
I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
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Xanil
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Posted - 2008.11.06 13:10:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Sysion
Originally by: Aluka 7th
- Jita is not the place to sell stuff, its place to buy stuff for resale in other regions. Only benefit of Jita is that you can sell large quantities very fast. But you do that for very low profit and have to compete with other sellers that undercut your price (lower their sale price under yours for 0.01ISK)
This always seems like one of those myths that everyone accepts without actually looking at.
Jita is not necessarily where you'll find people selling at the lowest price. I am currently selling several items for greater profit AND volume in Jita than in other regions. There is one item I'm selling at decent volume in Jita where I am the only person selling it, and have been for the past week and a half. There is one item, until recently, that I was selling in Jita for 2x what I was selling it in Amarr. It only changed because everyone was sold out in Amarr, so I put up more at a price over Jita and set a new baseline price. There is even another where I only need to adjust its price ever few days.
Additionally, I don't always get the negative of "lower profit, higher volume". People neglect the importance of time. Is the goal of manufacturing/trading in Eve to maintain the highest profit margin, or to make the most money? Say person A makes a 20% margin, but sells 10 items a day, and person B has a 15% margin, but sells 20 items per day. After a month, who has done better? Sure person A can be proud of their 20% margin, but over the same span of time, person B is going to come out of it with a bigger wallet.
Well maybe you can make more profit by selling large quantities cheap but what you dont understand is that - you end up putting more work into it as well. Take that person A mines 1hr for 1mil Trit and person B mines 2hrs for 2mil Trit. Now if person A just spams markets with his Trit for 3k/each and is able to sell the Trit with very cheap price he ends up earning 6mil isk. On the other hand, if the person B has multiple items in store and he analyzes the market and puts his trit for sale when the price is high he ends up getting bettere work/isk ratio than person A. In absurd, think of a person working 24/7 spamming markets with cheap prices making same money as other guy is doing in few hours/day playtime :D
I have never supported the quantity selling, whereas I enjoy my quality time :D
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Lord Zarcam
Amarr
Royal Amarr Institute
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Posted - 2008.11.06 16:46:00 -
[44]
Lots of great information, thanks! As a fairly new player and a beginner trader, I'm still learning the tricks of the market. So far in about a month's time I've taken a 2 million isk investment in items to resell to 100 million isk order during that last purchase and this week broke 400 million isk in the bank account.
It's small pocket change for most here, but it has been profitable learning experience. Better then anything else I have tried so far, although salvaging runs a very close second. For a player still running level 1 missions, this has really caught my attention for making money. Later I hope to get into manufacturing, but for now this has been fun. lol, My wife often comes into my home office/"man-cave" and wants to know why I'm "working" or writing notes when I have a game open on my PC?
As with just about anything in this game, there is a steep learning curve. There are a lot of details to check and new tricks to learn! This is what I enjoy about this game. It's as complex as you want to make it!
It's a diversion from real life, but uses experiences from real life to help you get ahead! Now if I could only make this type of money in real life! Sure would make the wife happier!
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.11.23 18:24:00 -
[45]
Glad you liked the info.
I even had knowledge from eve useful in RL not just the other way around. There are many things to learn from interaction here :)
Fly safe space cowboy o/
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Jovan Mesa
Black Mesa Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.24 07:50:00 -
[46]
I appreciate this guide. I was thinking about bringing Stuff to Lowsec with the newly changed cloakable transport ship. We will see if it brings profit :).
Technology will prevail
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Alex555
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Posted - 2008.11.24 07:59:00 -
[47]
i sell my stuff in jita.
dont see any problem with fewer profit, but the volume covers everything.
once i've tried to distribute my goods over several regions but i have given up the idea due to constant rival undercutting
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Jovan Mesa
Black Mesa Corporation
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Posted - 2008.11.24 10:46:00 -
[48]
I thought that, but i may find a region where i could get into with a decent amount of modules so that its worth the effort.
Technology will prevail
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Sekhen Oni
Caldari
Sickle Moon
Overtime Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.24 13:41:00 -
[49]
I'll confess that the information is very usefull...but not terribly uplifting. Between the lines, the Guide almost reads as a warning, more than an encouragement. 
-Still, I DO plan on being an industrialist somewhere down the road, but I'm starting to appreciate the investment, scale, and sheer bulk of productions you need to run to be able to see some noticable profits...Phew...
A good read, all in all. Thanks.
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Talsha Talamar
Amarr
Nebula Rasa Holdings
Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.11.24 14:06:00 -
[50]
Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 24/11/2008 14:07:36
The point about calculating the profit
per "production-slot-day" can not be emphasized enough.
It is the reason why for example small and medium ammunition charges
come with a much heftier profit margin than large units.
Without this margin producing them is simply not worth the slot,
even for the beginning producer.
If a slot generates you 50.000 isk profit per day and
it could generate 120.000 isk per day with another product,
you loose 70.000 isk in prospective earnings.
Also minerals you mine or refine are not free.
For one you invested time in it
that you could have used for other profitable activities,
like mission running, trading or whatever.
For the other you could sell those minerals at the market,
so they represent a direct and tangible value.
1 unit Trit is worth what one unit Trit is worth on the market,
how ever you acquired it.
Another mistake to avoid is undercutting
the market by unreasonable amounts,
unless you need to get rid of stock fast and
have no further short-term interest in that specific market segment.
People will buy at the prices offered,
not at amounts that seem reasonable or fair.
If you undercut to often by a to large margin,
you ruin your profits and that of everyone else.
While in real life 10% markup can be seen as good profits in some markets,
the limitation to 11 production slot per character
make such margin on low turnovers unprofitable.
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Cubus
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Posted - 2008.11.26 12:32:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cubus on 26/11/2008 12:32:57
Thanks for the helpful posts everyone.
I've been looking to cover more parts (more than mining) of the production chain for a while now, but never knew for sure where to start. Your pointers should give me that start :)
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.05 20:11:00 -
[52]
Bumpy thing..
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ChinaWillGrowLarger
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Posted - 2008.12.06 01:08:00 -
[53]
Very interesting.
I am an industrial alt, or will be in about a months time.
I rarely have more than say 80 mil liquid at any one time, is turning a significant profit possible with such a small investment?
How long might it take me to double my isk through production of ships or mods?
If anyone feels like giving a fledgling industrialist a few in depth pointers or taking me on in some production line you have i would love your eve mails
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Princess 02
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Posted - 2008.12.06 05:51:00 -
[54]
If I mine it, its free...
If I passive farm it, its free...
If I salvage it, its free...
If I copy it, its free...
If you agree with me... STOP manufacturing RIGHT NOW!!!
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.07 19:00:00 -
[55]
True, nothing is free.
But people value their time differently, also in the end it is a game so even if you get paid that is still virtual money :)
Still, when producing, my minimum is 5mil profit per production line per day. Optimum is 10mil. And I have all lines working full time :)
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Zhilia Mann
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Posted - 2008.12.08 01:56:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Aluka 7th
Any feedback from fresh manufacturers?
I'm not exactly fresh, but I approve. I would add that putting sell orders in out of the way systems while manufacturing pretty much anywhere can be highly profitable in the long run. Most manufacturers would be surprised at the margin on a cruiser or hauler in 0.2.
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2008.12.30 19:35:00 -
[57]
Bumpovski.
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.01.10 18:24:00 -
[58]
Bump 4 new readers.
I see many question regarding T1 manufacturing and IMHO its quite profitable, but like invention you have to find items and market worth manufacturing.
I have 100+ T1 items that fetch me 10mil per day per production line in 4 empire regions :)
o/
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Blue Harrier
Gallente
Center for Advanced Studies
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Posted - 2009.01.10 22:05:00 -
[59]
Good post itÆs filled I some blanks for me, thanks.
IÆm just getting into manufacturing in a small way as IÆm a æcasualÆ player and started by making ships and now diversified into scan probe launchers and probes as well as medium ammo.
To help me understand the profit/loss of my fledgling business I made an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to put in the cost of minerals, tax rate, and manufacturing costs as variables then using a template input the amounts of minerals used to manufacture an item. This gives me a cost per item and cost per run of many.
I can then input my suggested selling price per unit and it will show me approximate profit/loss per unit and per run. Using this I found that unless I accepted my æmining/refiningÆ time cost is æfreeÆ then I could not sell any of my ships for a profit but my other items gave a very good return even if I had to purchase all the minerals at æsellingÆ prices.
So the moral of the wall of text, look very carefully at your cost of production and make sure you can sell the resulting item at a profit or there is no point in wasting your time doing it (and buying the BPO).
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Aluka 7th
Amarr
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Posted - 2009.02.07 16:07:00 -
[60]
Free cruiser |
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