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Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 09:24:00 - [1] Edited by: Aluka 7th on 10/09/2008 09:27:47 First, rules: - Jita is not the place to sell stuff, its place to buy stuff for resale in other regions. Only benefit of Jita is that you can sell large quantities very fast. But you do that for very low profit and have to compete with other sellers that undercut your price (lower their sale price under yours for 0.01ISK) - Manufacture is profitable, in region with developed competition, only with production efficiency at lvl 5. Otherwise other sellers can lower their sell price bellow yours manufacturing price and they will still make a profit - you won't. - Buy locally minerals that are needed in large amounts but are cheap per unit - trit, pyerite, mex, isogen and nocx. - Buy in remote locations expensive minerals; in mining regions or close to 0.0 of some major alliance - Zydrine,Megacyte and Morph. Although calculate prices like you bought them locally. This enables you to lower price more then anyone else when needed which gives you long term grip over supply in that region. - Diversity of items you can manufacture is the key. Over time some items stop being profitable and some start again. - When producing large amounts don't oversupply regional market. Check in history tab, in market window, amounts that are sold daily. Try to put batches that will sell with current trade volumes in next 1-2 days until you get feel for demand and competition. Move to another region and supply them with that item in same manner. Soon you will see how often and in how big batches you need to produce that item. - Use haulers for rent, put contract or ask in forums, but calculate price of hauling in final price. What to manufacture: 1.Ammo - laser crystals of M and L size, t1 mining crystals, scripts. Missiles, projectile and hybrid ammo and cap. booster charges are already too cheap because they are outlet for miners. Miners convert part of their mining supply to dirty cheap ammo so they can sell more minerals overall. There is some money in trading ammo if you buy in trade hub -> sell in mission hub (places where there are many mission runners like COSMOS constellations). Mining crystal use only nocxium but are very big per unit. So its good to bring or buy locally nocxium and use BPOs/BPCs to manufacture on site near system where miners are. 2.R.dB and R.A.M. Profitable and easy to get in, sell for more then double of their manufacturing price. But you can only produce low amounts per day per production line (40-50). For faster sale aim for systems with lots of research labs.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 13:13:00 - [2] 140 times read and not a single Tnx :¦( I don't know should I continue with list...
Sha'ampin	Posted - 2008.09.10 13:44:00 - [3] Thanks for your work :)
Yaar Podshipnik Gallente Paxton Industries Paxton Federation	Posted - 2008.09.10 15:30:00 - [4] That's a very good starting point you provided to a lot of manufacturing wannabes :). Thank you for your effort!
Absimi Liard Gallente Vertical Industrial Partners Limited	Posted - 2008.09.10 15:41:00 - [5] I like your rules. I don't agree with every one of them, mostly because I think exceptions exist for most rules. But as generalities I like them. Your specific product advice I don't agree as strongly with. But maybe my markets are different than yours. (what a shock huh? looks totally unshocked) Regarding mineral acquisition, I'll note that I strongly advise using Buy Orders for the bulk mins like Pye and Trit, and that the Buy Orders should be set at your build site. This means you need to haul less stuff. Hauling 100M ISK of rares is pretty trivial, hauling 100M ISK of Trit is really annoying if you're not a freighter pilot. But in general, I like it. -abs
Jiss Katcher	Posted - 2008.09.10 15:53:00 - [6] this is VERY awesome :)
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 16:28:00 - [7] Originally by: Absimi Liard Regarding mineral acquisition, I'll note that I strongly advise using Buy Orders for the bulk mins like Pye and Trit, and that the Buy Orders should be set at your build site. This means you need to haul less stuff. Hauling 100M ISK of rares is pretty trivial, hauling 100M ISK of Trit is really annoying if you're not a freighter pilot. Ha, ha, ha I thought it was really common sense to use buy orders instead just buying right away from sale orders so I wasn't very precise :). Tnx for the tip to clarify the rules!
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.09.10 16:37:00 - [8] Originally by: Aluka 7th 2.Manufacturing and research tools - R.dB and R.A.M. Profitable and easy to get in, sell for more then double of their manufacturing price. But you can only produce low amounts per day per production line (40-50). For faster sale aim for systems with lots of research labs. R.A.M. yes R.dB - don't bother only useful for T2 bpo holders and they would of researched them already - well a couple of T1's use them but it's not worth it really -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 16:53:00 - [9] Originally by: RaTTuS R.dB - don't bother only useful for T2 bpo holders and they would of researched them already - well a couple of T1's use them but it's not worth it really If you check this http://eve.coldfront.net/db/item/R.Db+-+Viziam for example you can see that R.Db's are used also for BPO copying so they are still in need. To be more precise this is usage per month in one region of 7 different R.Db's - 1933pcs. Even more in regions with lowsec systems where all rich carebears run jobs on expensive BPO's. Still I agree that one shouldn't put this items on top of manufacture list although its profitable and complies with idea of this tread.
Sysion	Posted - 2008.09.10 16:55:00 - [10] Originally by: Aluka 7th - Jita is not the place to sell stuff, its place to buy stuff for resale in other regions. Only benefit of Jita is that you can sell large quantities very fast. But you do that for very low profit and have to compete with other sellers that undercut your price (lower their sale price under yours for 0.01ISK) This always seems like one of those myths that everyone accepts without actually looking at. Jita is not necessarily where you'll find people selling at the lowest price. I am currently selling several items for greater profit AND volume in Jita than in other regions. There is one item I'm selling at decent volume in Jita where I am the only person selling it, and have been for the past week and a half. There is one item, until recently, that I was selling in Jita for 2x what I was selling it in Amarr. It only changed because everyone was sold out in Amarr, so I put up more at a price over Jita and set a new baseline price. There is even another where I only need to adjust its price ever few days. Additionally, I don't always get the negative of "lower profit, higher volume". People neglect the importance of time. Is the goal of manufacturing/trading in Eve to maintain the highest profit margin, or to make the most money? Say person A makes a 20% margin, but sells 10 items a day, and person B has a 15% margin, but sells 20 items per day. After a month, who has done better? Sure person A can be proud of their 20% margin, but over the same span of time, person B is going to come out of it with a bigger wallet.

Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.10 17:08:00 - [11] Sysion to be honest I have 17 items that give me biggest profit in Jita - even when looking per item. Rule I wrote was for other few thousand items and also I wanted to save nerves of fresh industrialist of 24/7 undercutting in that system. But you are right and you put out few good points.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.11 04:38:00 - [12] List of items with above average profitability and BPOs that cost less then 2mil is updated every now and then in first two posts. So although there are no many "thank you" posts those of you that read please come again.
RaTTuS BIG Libertas Fidelitas	Posted - 2008.09.11 09:00:00 - [13] Aha yes copying ... umm -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
Romanov DeBeers Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.11 11:35:00 - [14] Excellent summary. A few comments below Originally by: Aluka 7th Edited by: Aluka 7th on 11/09/2008 08:39:28 First, rules: - Manufacturing is profitable, in region with developed competition, only with production efficiency at lvl 5. Otherwise other sellers can lower their sell price bellow yours manufacturing price and they will still make a profit - you won't. - You can sell items for greater price if you are 2+ jumps away from cheaper guy in same region, because people don't fly around for 2-3 items to save 5%. The difference in profit from Lvl4 to Lvl5 is 5% so if you are making less than 5% profit margin then the first of these two rules stands true. However, if you are making less than 5% profit then I would advise finding another item to manufacture since it is probably not worth your time and effort. I had many successful months of profit at Lvl4 before finally getting to Lvl5. The choice of items is key. My experience is that you can successfully sell items at up to 50% more than at other stations in the same system! Players realise that time is money, undocking/docking take time that could be used on running another mission or more ratting. If you can make 20m+ per hr on missions it pays you to buy local. I've successfully sold items in the 1-2m range at 500k more than another station in the same system. The choice of station is key. On turrets, you can sell turrets profitably if you are smart. -Sell projectiles turrets in Gallente space and hybrids in Minmatar etc. Demand is not huge but the profit margins can be high because the market is not supplied by ratting. -Mid range medium turrets sell well ie 200mm railguns. New players moving to cruisers cannot fit the larger med turrets initially so will purchase the smaller meds. 200mm rails therefore sell for more than 250mm rails where I am - but they cost less to build.
I SoStoned	Posted - 2008.09.11 11:46:00 - [15] Yes, your point about ME. The difference for a Raven, buying all materials off the market, between ME 10 and ME 20 is only about 300-400k. Considering you pay almost double for the BPC, there goes the savings in materials right there. Pretty much all manufactured goods reach their peak efficiency at ME 10. Anything beyond that is just... useful for things you're going to produce scads of per joblot (ammunition, probes, et al). Battleship-size or other large high material items (mobile bubbles, strip/ice miners, ect) can take some small advantage of me 10+, but only if you're the BPO holder. Buying ME 10+ BPCs is almost always invariably more expensive than the savings you get from reduced waste. The same thing goes for PE. Beyond PE 10 the time you save is minimal but, again, when you're producing month-long joblots a PE of 20 can let you squeeze in a rather surprising number of extra runs.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.11 11:59:00 - [16] Thank you Romanov. There are good points in your comments. Although my example was extreme regarding production efficiency level, focus was that you competition can have 5% lower price then you and still make same money per item. Also you are constantly giving 5% of your total sale value to miners from which you buy that extra 5% materials. In my case that's one fully fitted cruiser per day. The choice of station is key. YESSSS! If you deal with turrets then check my other tread where you can see that more money comes from trading turrets then manufacturing them. And if you trade them than don't sell basic Tech I; trade named or Tech2. Still there are regions where you can profit from turrets and I will correct my list.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.11 12:04:00 - [17] I SoStoned there was no point about M.E. just that instead of investing in BPO which costs more then 10-20mil people should rather test waters with BPC that are cheaper to start. But your point about M.E. is very good. I also don't research M.E. above 9 for many thing that cost even x0 mil isk to make :)
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.12 07:30:00 - [18] Any more suggestions? Thoughts from new industrialists? Questions?
Augeas	Posted - 2008.09.12 08:36:00 - [19] Quote: - Jita is not the place to sell stuff, its place to buy stuff for resale in other regions. Only benefit of Jita is that you can sell large quantities very fast. But you do that for very low profit and have to compete with other sellers that undercut your price (lower their sale price under yours for 0.01ISK) Yeah, when I read this I thought the entire post was just disinformation. But no, there's some decent advice there... and some stuff that's completely wrong.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.12 09:41:00 - [20] Originally by: Augeas Yeah, when I read this I thought the entire post was just disinformation. But no, there's some decent advice there... and some stuff that's completely wrong. :) Whats the wrong part and why? IMHO people that say to fresh manufacturers - produce ammo, ships or items that sell for less then 10k ISK are beating them to a pulp. On the other hand I did not and will not list best items and best locations.

Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2008.09.12 11:20:00 - [21] In the equation of time = money, you can make good isk making stuff that other people need for the sole reason that they can use their slots better than you... Here is what I mean... The inventors need to run their slots making t2 stuff, but they need R.A.M.s... Making 500 R.A.M can take 9 days or so, and few hi-end manufactures can afford to tie up a slot for 9 days, even with alts. Thus, get some R.A.M. bpos, and then make 10 sets of 500 RAM. Pros: 1) you just have to run jobs once every 10 days... No running back and forth to change jobs all the time 2) you stock is necessary and needed by all t2 manufactures in eve--in other words, it sells 3) the main component of RAM are isogen and nocium, both of which are cheap... What this means is the following. Suppose you have a few billion isk and some spare manufacturing... You can make 1000s of RAM as a bet that the drone regions will get nerfed and also that nocium and isogen will rise... Your build cost is so cheap, that if those minerals rise, you will make an enormous amount of isk just by sitting on product for 6 months. Remember there is no real investment in EVE, so what I propose is you think of a way to use your manufacturing slots as an investment to make more isk than just selling stuff as you make it... Next, with the RAM market, you can easily manipulate it. Once you have your stockpile of RAM, go to a region and hub (like RENS) and buy ALL the RAM. Then add your few 000 RAM to the market at an inflated price, and resell the other RAM also at an inflated price. RAM takes so long to make, that the casual and small time inventors will grimace, but your RAM will then start selling. Once the price bottoms out as more RAM comes to the market, you have another 10 day batch out of the oven, and you can repeat in the next region...
Lady Valory Caldari Caldari Strike Force	Posted - 2008.09.12 11:27:00 - [22] Datacore trading: The datacore market is ripe for exploitation... We personally made several billion isk off this, and now we are moving onto other schemes, but I'll pass this along to you... The supply of infinite isk vs the limited supply of datacores is key... Remember broken L4 missions and farmers arent fixed yet... SO, with just a few billion isk, you can buy ALL the datacores in Jita. We did this by buying ALL the caldari starship datacores in all the caldari hi-sec regions with an average buy price of 149000 isk and then flipped all them a few months ago for some amazing isk. We kept 20000 of them as pure profit for invention also... By buying ALL the datacores, you choke up lots of players who invent hand and mouth, and also those casual players who dont really understand invention. Next, the datacore market is finite while the isk faucets are broken... At some point, a cartel could just buy every datacore on market forever and nothing could stop this... We dont have that kind of isk (about 100-250 billion isk) but any cartel could totally Whack eve... Next, whenever major patches come out, datacores spike massively with new ships, so start stockpiling now as a hedge... What you are doing is converting useless isk as there are no real banks in the game into "investment grade isk"--think of every lot of 1000 datacores as a block of gold or a bond portfolio that can rise or sink with value. If you and your friends are small term, pick one type of datacore for a minor tech t2 tree, then invest about 5-10 billion isk and buy all them in the same day all over eve. You'd be surprised the effect you'll have and the profit!
Arlis Rahl	Posted - 2008.09.12 19:57:00 - [23] While Lady Valory makes some excellent points, I would suggest a little caution before running out and trying to buy all of the supply of a product from a market in Eve. Especially if you don't have a quarter of a trillion isk in reserve. To stay on topic with the original post, however, I'd like some opinions on producing rigs. I've been experimenting with some here and there and am running into major supply issues with the components necessary to produce them. Specifically I find that one of the items for production tends to be fairly restricted in supply while the other items are abundantly available. Has anyone else experienced positive results through rig production or am I looking at wasting more time flying around placing buy orders and hauling small amounts of material than is worthwhile in the long run?
Absimi Liard Gallente Vertical Industrial Partners Limited	Posted - 2008.09.12 20:11:00 - [24] YMMV but I find rigs annoying. I find the market is highly volatile for salvage materials. I also find, as you did, that there's inevitably one material that is a bottleneck. If you want to try rig-building I'd suggest using long-term buy orders in mission hubs to acquire your bottleneck materials before buying the other salvage materiel you'll need. You risk the rig price becoming unprofitable if it shifts down. But if you just buy all but the materiel at once except the bottleneck bit you risk having your isk sit stale while you wait to get the bottleneck covered. All in all I don't like rigs. Lots of effort. On the other hand they can be very fast turnaround goods. They sell quick in some markets, and build quick too. So if you do see enough of the bottleneck material component you can sometimes build them, and sell them, for profit, inside of an hour. But overall I don't like them much. -abs
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.13 08:11:00 - [25] Regarding rigs you should be aware of few things. Salvage materials are divided in basic two sub groups: Circuits & Non-circuits. Circuits drop all over eve. Non-circuits are race/faction specific. Wrecks drop rate depends on if it's from a mission (50%) or asteroid belt (75%) - asteroid belt NPC pirate ships have a better drop rate. frigates - 1 non-circuit, 2 circuits cruisers - 1 non-circuit, 4 circuits battlecruisers - 1 to 2 non-circuit, 6 circuits battleship - 1 to 3 non-circuit 8+ circuits Therefore in empire there will always be scarce of Non-circuits. Reason is that most of salvage in empire comes from mission (50% salvage drop rate) and people in high-sec empire regions do missions up to lvl 3 so biggest wreck is from Battlecruiser. If you check usage of non-circuit materials per rig you will notice that for ONE rig mission runners have to salvage for some rigs over 100 ship wreck or with avrage 50% salvage find in mission they have to pop ~200 NPCs. So no wonder its hard to find non-circuit salvage mat. P.S. Most of used info is from Salvaging Guide written by Voidvim
Absimi Liard Gallente Vertical Industrial Partners Limited	Posted - 2008.09.13 14:57:00 - [26] That is very interesting Aluka. I must have some odd product lists then. Typically my bottleneck material is Fried Interface Circuits. Very strange given the math of the drops. Maybe FICs just are needed by so many popular rigs that despite being a common drop, which I agree they are, they just get hit by such high demand that they're hard to buy. But very interesting numbers there. Thanks for the lookup. -abs
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.13 15:28:00 - [27] Edited by: Aluka 7th on 13/09/2008 15:30:00 44 of 78 rigs require FICs (Fried). Those rigs are 40-45% made of FICs. Its required the most of all three components.. Go figure why you have hard time with that circuit
Jay See	Posted - 2008.09.14 18:32:00 - [28] very interesting topic, thank you.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.16 10:57:00 - [29] Edited by: Aluka 7th on 16/09/2008 10:57:36 Few more thing for you fresh manufacturers.. 9. Propulsion - 10MN MWD, 10MN AB Why only medium size? Read point 5. of this post. o/
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.18 12:28:00 - [30] Edited by: Aluka 7th on 18/09/2008 12:29:52 One detail for you readers. To answer why this recommended items sell well. You see T1 items are usually bought by fresh pod pilots that don't know advantages of named equipment yet. BUT don't forget that most of the Tech 2 industry sits on the back of Tech 1 industry and this is your second market. To manufacture Tech2 item you need some materials and plain non-named Tech 1 item which "big fish" players buy from market and don't produce :)

Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.09.21 09:38:00 - [31] Any feedback from fresh manufacturers?
arfon maine	Posted - 2008.09.22 00:38:00 - [32] I am very new to manufacturing and greatly appreciate the advice that you have given. IMHO tech one shield, turret and bay item (as a basic mission runner) drop like leaves from the trees. Where I am based, even with level 5 Production Efficiency there is no way to make money out of these items as the Price History show that most of the sales on these items are simply from mission runner who hit click and sell for buy orders. I'd love to hear that I have misunderstood that stats - but that's how I'm reading tham atm
PaperLion Gallente Old Man Industrial and Mining	Posted - 2008.09.26 22:17:00 - [33] I'm a new manufacturer. I like making ships, purely from a "I made a ship" perspective. There's ~ 5 - 10% profit on most of the BPC's I've bought. I haven't done the math on the things you suggest, so I'm not sure what a respectable margin is. My corp has 100mm isk earmarked for manufacturing, clearly we're not going to get rich at 5-10% with the sale of a few ships a week. In general, we're in a relatively low volume area. If we want to get serious about production, we probably need to move and figure out a few BPO's to purchase. Your guide has given us plenty to think about. PL
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.03 14:45:00 - [34] That is the point of tread - to be an eye opener. Thank you for your comments. Other thing to take into account is this: With my skills I can run 10 production lines. With my skills I can put 269 sale (and buy) orders. So bottleneck is manufacturing, not slow sale if there is one. That is why I focus on items that bring good ISK/day per manufacturing line not just pure % profit. Even if they go slow in one region I just sell them in couple of close regions or switch production to next item with good Isk/day per manuf. line. My bottom line is 5mil/day. Most of items are 8-15mil/day. All of those items are Tech I. So with 10 production lines running full time that's 50-150mil per day (profit). Not much as mining but I'm ok with it. Also I mix in some trade that brings me also same amount per day. o/
Yacko Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2008.10.04 07:55:00 - [35] Great post, and some very nice replies. It has given me something to think about. Originally by: Aluka 7th So with 10 production lines running full time that's 50-150mil per day (profit). Not much as mining but I'm ok with it. o/ Jeepers, 50+ mil per day manufacturing? Are you playing eve full time? At any rate, very nice. I would like to add that I am very casual and don't have the means to always stay on top of what to sell where. I have found a system where I mine and manufacture my goods and sell in another system close by. I sell items that are related to each other. In this case it is for a typical Caracal T1 setup. This seems to work, mostly because folks can one stop shop for their goods rather than tripping all over the place. In other words I can raise the price a bit. If folks have to go looking else where for even one item, it increases the odds they can find the other items cheaper there as well. It is in a relatively out the way system, well away from Jita (I prefer it this way). IMO, the biggest thing is to know your market and supply what it needs. Whether you base out of a single station like myself or specialize in a small array of items and sell them in multiple stations. And do make sure you can make more selling the item than mining and just selling the mins. I frequently see items for sale that are less than min cost. I have found deals where isk was made by buying the items to reprocess and then resell the mins (a rarity, but happens). To figure the cost to produce you can make a spreadsheet. Or perhaps there is one floating about somewhere that you can pick up. These are great tools to keep track of what BPO/BPC's you have and the cost to produce. Saves time from punching numbers into a calculator. Perhaps your corpmates may have one.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:26:00 - [36] :) actually I spend less then hour on manufacturing on avrege per day. If I need to go AFK for few days I just put larger items or amounts in manufacture line. Although I did spend more time to decide what to sell and to start production/sale. Yacko regarding your comment, I agree selling typical load-out for ships is smart. I on the other hand sell full product range. I.e. if I sell drones I sell all types with all additional items in one station. Fly safe o/
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.29 17:22:00 - [37] Bump for new readers.
Bambi Existentialist Collective	Posted - 2008.10.29 20:24:00 - [38] You made some nice points there mate for the newbies, it's a lot more enjoyable being a 'carebear' when you make good ISK. I have been building things since 2003, and your guide woulda have been handy back then. Its always worth checking the market graphs for the items you are planning to build and sell, smaller profit when you are shifting 100's a day is better than a larger profit from 1 or 2 items a day. Demand is the key. By the way these is no profit AT ALL to be made from Tech II ammo so don't anyone bother going down that road ;-) EVE is dead, long live EVE!
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.31 08:48:00 - [39] This tread would help me few years ago :)
Cheopis Ardishapur Ammunition and More	Posted - 2008.10.31 09:34:00 - [40] Pretty well done for a basic into, trade volume can be a misleading indicator on item popularity though - especially when mineral prices jump a bit. Why is this? Scrapmetal recyclers will buy anything and everything that they can turn back into minerals and make a profit on the exchange. The best sign of something that has a good sales future, is if you calculate your cost to make something, and see that the lowest sale price for that item over an entire region is BOTH significantly higher than your cost AND higher than the highest buyer's price. If you see buy order prices higher than the lowest sell order prices, that almost always indicates that the market is either glutted, or the items just aren't wanted and the recyclers are the only ones buying. It doesn't hurt to take a closer look if the highest buy order is much higher than the next highest buy order though - as someone might have placed a nice, profitable buy order because they don't want to run to 47 different solar systems to collect stuff. Unfortunately these buy orders don't normally stay up long because the freighter people tend to find them too You don't normally have time to manufacture items for these orders.

Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.10.31 13:13:00 - [41] Cheopis, you are right. That is good way to check item profitability, also its good to have one-two days of sale volume in stock so u can dump it on market fast b4 u start your production line again so you can fill good order or fill the gap in supply. ->This is not the case for items that have volatile price like t2 manufacturing components. Avoid stockpiling these :)
Jurgen Cartis Caldari Interstellar Corporation of Exploration	Posted - 2008.10.31 18:50:00 - [42] Originally by: Aluka 7th - You can sell items for greater price if you are 2+ jumps away from cheaper guy in same region, because people don't fly around for 2-3 items to save 5%. QFT. As amusing as it is to see someone lower prices to 0.01 isk below someone who is 23 jumps away and in lowsec, it's not good business practice to compete with people who don't affect your market. In other words, we're lazy and CBA to travel 5 jumps to save <1m. The travel threshold depends on player, but most of us are lazy and don't comparison shop on mods or ammo, which is why so many people shop at jitamart. -------------------- Originally by: Crumplecorn I prefer launching bathtubs of antimatter at my opponents over pointing an open DVD player at them, even if the bathtubs do miss a lot. So no.
Xanil	Posted - 2008.11.06 13:10:00 - [43] Originally by: Sysion Originally by: Aluka 7th - Jita is not the place to sell stuff, its place to buy stuff for resale in other regions. Only benefit of Jita is that you can sell large quantities very fast. But you do that for very low profit and have to compete with other sellers that undercut your price (lower their sale price under yours for 0.01ISK) This always seems like one of those myths that everyone accepts without actually looking at. Jita is not necessarily where you'll find people selling at the lowest price. I am currently selling several items for greater profit AND volume in Jita than in other regions. There is one item I'm selling at decent volume in Jita where I am the only person selling it, and have been for the past week and a half. There is one item, until recently, that I was selling in Jita for 2x what I was selling it in Amarr. It only changed because everyone was sold out in Amarr, so I put up more at a price over Jita and set a new baseline price. There is even another where I only need to adjust its price ever few days. Additionally, I don't always get the negative of "lower profit, higher volume". People neglect the importance of time. Is the goal of manufacturing/trading in Eve to maintain the highest profit margin, or to make the most money? Say person A makes a 20% margin, but sells 10 items a day, and person B has a 15% margin, but sells 20 items per day. After a month, who has done better? Sure person A can be proud of their 20% margin, but over the same span of time, person B is going to come out of it with a bigger wallet. Well maybe you can make more profit by selling large quantities cheap but what you dont understand is that - you end up putting more work into it as well. Take that person A mines 1hr for 1mil Trit and person B mines 2hrs for 2mil Trit. Now if person A just spams markets with his Trit for 3k/each and is able to sell the Trit with very cheap price he ends up earning 6mil isk. On the other hand, if the person B has multiple items in store and he analyzes the market and puts his trit for sale when the price is high he ends up getting bettere work/isk ratio than person A. In absurd, think of a person working 24/7 spamming markets with cheap prices making same money as other guy is doing in few hours/day playtime :D I have never supported the quantity selling, whereas I enjoy my quality time :D
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.11.06 16:46:00 - [44] Lots of great information, thanks! As a fairly new player and a beginner trader, I'm still learning the tricks of the market. So far in about a month's time I've taken a 2 million isk investment in items to resell to 100 million isk order during that last purchase and this week broke 400 million isk in the bank account. It's small pocket change for most here, but it has been profitable learning experience. Better then anything else I have tried so far, although salvaging runs a very close second. For a player still running level 1 missions, this has really caught my attention for making money. Later I hope to get into manufacturing, but for now this has been fun. lol, My wife often comes into my home office/"man-cave" and wants to know why I'm "working" or writing notes when I have a game open on my PC? As with just about anything in this game, there is a steep learning curve. There are a lot of details to check and new tricks to learn! This is what I enjoy about this game. It's as complex as you want to make it! It's a diversion from real life, but uses experiences from real life to help you get ahead! Now if I could only make this type of money in real life! Sure would make the wife happier!
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.11.23 18:24:00 - [45] Glad you liked the info. I even had knowledge from eve useful in RL not just the other way around. There are many things to learn from interaction here :) Fly safe space cowboy o/
Jovan Mesa Black Mesa Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.24 07:50:00 - [46] I appreciate this guide. I was thinking about bringing Stuff to Lowsec with the newly changed cloakable transport ship. We will see if it brings profit :). Technology will prevail
Alex555	Posted - 2008.11.24 07:59:00 - [47] i sell my stuff in jita. dont see any problem with fewer profit, but the volume covers everything. once i've tried to distribute my goods over several regions but i have given up the idea due to constant rival undercutting
Jovan Mesa Black Mesa Corporation	Posted - 2008.11.24 10:46:00 - [48] I thought that, but i may find a region where i could get into with a decent amount of modules so that its worth the effort. Technology will prevail
Sekhen Oni Caldari Sickle Moon Overtime Alliance	Posted - 2008.11.24 13:41:00 - [49] I'll confess that the information is very usefull...but not terribly uplifting. Between the lines, the Guide almost reads as a warning, more than an encouragement. -Still, I DO plan on being an industrialist somewhere down the road, but I'm starting to appreciate the investment, scale, and sheer bulk of productions you need to run to be able to see some noticable profits...Phew... A good read, all in all. Thanks.
Talsha Talamar Amarr Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa	Posted - 2008.11.24 14:06:00 - [50] Edited by: Talsha Talamar on 24/11/2008 14:07:36 The point about calculating the profit per "production-slot-day" can not be emphasized enough. It is the reason why for example small and medium ammunition charges come with a much heftier profit margin than large units. Without this margin producing them is simply not worth the slot, even for the beginning producer. If a slot generates you 50.000 isk profit per day and it could generate 120.000 isk per day with another product, you loose 70.000 isk in prospective earnings. Also minerals you mine or refine are not free. For one you invested time in it that you could have used for other profitable activities, like mission running, trading or whatever. For the other you could sell those minerals at the market, so they represent a direct and tangible value. 1 unit Trit is worth what one unit Trit is worth on the market, how ever you acquired it. Another mistake to avoid is undercutting the market by unreasonable amounts, unless you need to get rid of stock fast and have no further short-term interest in that specific market segment. People will buy at the prices offered, not at amounts that seem reasonable or fair. If you undercut to often by a to large margin, you ruin your profits and that of everyone else. While in real life 10% markup can be seen as good profits in some markets, the limitation to 11 production slot per character make such margin on low turnovers unprofitable.

Cubus	Posted - 2008.11.26 12:32:00 - [51] Edited by: Cubus on 26/11/2008 12:32:57 Thanks for the helpful posts everyone. I've been looking to cover more parts (more than mining) of the production chain for a while now, but never knew for sure where to start. Your pointers should give me that start :)
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.05 20:11:00 - [52] Bumpy thing..
ChinaWillGrowLarger	Posted - 2008.12.06 01:08:00 - [53] Very interesting. I am an industrial alt, or will be in about a months time. I rarely have more than say 80 mil liquid at any one time, is turning a significant profit possible with such a small investment? How long might it take me to double my isk through production of ships or mods? If anyone feels like giving a fledgling industrialist a few in depth pointers or taking me on in some production line you have i would love your eve mails
Princess 02	Posted - 2008.12.06 05:51:00 - [54] If I mine it, its free... If I passive farm it, its free... If I salvage it, its free... If I copy it, its free... If you agree with me... STOP manufacturing RIGHT NOW!!!
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.07 19:00:00 - [55] True, nothing is free. But people value their time differently, also in the end it is a game so even if you get paid that is still virtual money :) Still, when producing, my minimum is 5mil profit per production line per day. Optimum is 10mil. And I have all lines working full time :)
Zhilia Mann	Posted - 2008.12.08 01:56:00 - [56] Originally by: Aluka 7th Any feedback from fresh manufacturers? I'm not exactly fresh, but I approve. I would add that putting sell orders in out of the way systems while manufacturing pretty much anywhere can be highly profitable in the long run. Most manufacturers would be surprised at the margin on a cruiser or hauler in 0.2.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2008.12.30 19:35:00 - [57] Bumpovski.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.01.10 18:24:00 - [58] Bump 4 new readers. I see many question regarding T1 manufacturing and IMHO its quite profitable, but like invention you have to find items and market worth manufacturing. I have 100+ T1 items that fetch me 10mil per day per production line in 4 empire regions :) o/
Blue Harrier Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.01.10 22:05:00 - [59] Good post itÆs filled I some blanks for me, thanks. IÆm just getting into manufacturing in a small way as IÆm a æcasualÆ player and started by making ships and now diversified into scan probe launchers and probes as well as medium ammo. To help me understand the profit/loss of my fledgling business I made an Excel spreadsheet that allows me to put in the cost of minerals, tax rate, and manufacturing costs as variables then using a template input the amounts of minerals used to manufacture an item. This gives me a cost per item and cost per run of many. I can then input my suggested selling price per unit and it will show me approximate profit/loss per unit and per run. Using this I found that unless I accepted my æmining/refiningÆ time cost is æfreeÆ then I could not sell any of my ships for a profit but my other items gave a very good return even if I had to purchase all the minerals at æsellingÆ prices. So the moral of the wall of text, look very carefully at your cost of production and make sure you can sell the resulting item at a profit or there is no point in wasting your time doing it (and buying the BPO).
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.07 16:07:00 - [60] Free cruiser

Insane Industrialist Outlandish Operations	Posted - 2009.02.08 03:14:00 - [61] nice little guide. you probably saw my thread on mining and production, but I'm still confused about all this. well we have 3 of us in the corp, we mine solid on average for 2 hours, and the rest of the time is moving our products to our selling points and putting them up on market or picking up our region-wide buy orders that have been filled. At the moment we are producing ships and I worked out roughly that we are making 10-20% profit on each item that we make, is this good? Are ships the best for profitability? cheers
Sauiki Gallente Lonely Island	Posted - 2009.02.08 12:06:00 - [62] Edited by: Sauiki on 08/02/2009 12:06:15 Nice guide, thanks for taking the time to write it
Alkhira	Posted - 2009.02.08 14:56:00 - [63] This guide is really helpful for aspiring manufacturers. It gave me a good share of information I didn't have before, and some food for thought. Thank you very much for your effort spent in writing it.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.08 15:07:00 - [64] Thank you all for positive input, I got some flame for writing down this stuff but mostly I get good feedback and I'm happy about it. After all its a game, so I like when more ppl enjoy it :) Insane.. if you get 10-20% profit that can be good or that can be bad (if we look profit only), depends how much is that per day per production line. Like I said there are items (tech 1) that can give you more then 5 million profit per day per production line. So if you make 40pcs of something per day and earn 100k ISK per item, that's 4mil per day per production line. Although IMHO miner corps are best for ship production because they need to push large amounts of ore/minerals per day and can acquire minerals fast. In this case even if you earn 1mil per day/per prod. line that's still ok, because you wouldn't manage to spend all those trits/pyerites ... so fast with other items. For you ship production is best option!!
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.02.08 16:25:00 - [65] I've been building a trading career for the last couple of months and I'm starting to reach a point that it's getting hard to accuire enough volume in the products I resell. I was thinking of starting to manufacture some of the items, but I'm not ready to add additional skill training in my waiting list (it's already almost 2 years long). My question is if I purchase T-2 BPCs for the items I want to resell, do I still need to get these manufacturing, research and invention skills? Or can I just plug everything in and let it run?
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.08 17:22:00 - [66] Nah, you need mostly Production efficiency 5 and skills listed in BPC's skill tab. BPC you bought should be researched (ME greater then 8) so someone have used his research skills on BPO and made that copy. You don't have to. You can try my other topic for trade info. o/
Lord Zarcam Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2009.02.08 17:59:00 - [67] Originally by: Aluka 7th Nah, you need mostly Production efficiency 5 and skills listed in BPC's skill tab. BPC you bought should be researched (ME greater then 8) so someone have used his research skills on BPO and made that copy. You don't have to. You can try my other topic for trade info. o/ I have followed it closely. Both threads have help me greatly. Thanks for a quick response.
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.02.08 18:31:00 - [68] Np, Lord, you can drop me a mail if you need more specifics or somtin :)
Arminaus	Posted - 2009.02.12 21:16:00 - [69] http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=972742 Very useful tool to help figure out the maths (Profit) behind manufacturing items in eve... Enjoy,
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.03.22 12:58:00 - [70] Bump

Rascal deJascal	Posted - 2009.03.22 17:31:00 - [71] Originally by: Aluka 7th Originally by: Absimi Liard Regarding mineral acquisition, I'll note that I strongly advise using Buy Orders for the bulk mins like Pye and Trit, and that the Buy Orders should be set at your build site. This means you need to haul less stuff. Hauling 100M ISK of rares is pretty trivial, hauling 100M ISK of Trit is really annoying if you're not a freighter pilot. Ha, ha, ha I thought it was really common sense to use buy orders instead just buying right away from sale orders so I wasn't very precise :). Tnx for the tip to clarify the rules! Buy orders are NOT a no-brainer 'yes'. Look at the margin between the lowest sell price and the price of the buy order you will make. If the margin is not enough to cover the buy order fees, you lose isk placing the buy order vs an immediate buy from the lowest seller. Immediate buying has no transaction fees. When the margin is small, re-think a buy order. When it is larger than 1-2 percent or more, a buy order is a good move. Look at your buy order fees for your cut-off point. Nice thread Aluka.
smileynz Gallente Sons Of Alexander Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2009.03.22 19:52:00 - [72] Edited by: smileynz on 22/03/2009 19:52:22 Very Good Read. Thanks Aluka I found this spreadsheet very helpful http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=557482
Smokin' Dragon	Posted - 2009.03.23 21:00:00 - [73] Oh Noes!!! my beautiful profitz!!! Nice Guide Aluka, Much as i dislike the competition, chances are , you dislike mine :) I aslo think that new players ask this question alot in the forums, so this is a good beginneres guide to adding value to your minerals. I cant really add too much for fear of destroying my own market, but the first thing any manufactureer should do that does not have access to a lab for BPO improvement is get your production efficiency to 5!! This will actually allow you to compete for market share in some systems, and you cvan work out how to get your BPO's up to max efficiency later..
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.04.12 12:58:00 - [74] On the contrary, I like competition! Main point of the tread is that ppl start to manufacture like professionals and earn money for other intresting stuff in game like PvP, exploration or ... the easy way. There is room for many manufacturers but not all in Jita
Aluka 7th Amarr	Posted - 2009.06.05 20:09:00 - [75] Bumpy :.)


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