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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:11:00 -
[1]
I'm new to Ewar but not new to battleships.
I've been considering how I can contribute to fleet warfare in 0.0 space & came up with the thought that if the enemy cant hit you & you can hit them that could be quite valuable.
I'm looking at the Scorpion as one option but perhaps you could suggest other options for me.
I have Caldari Battleship 5 & have Caldari Heavy assault ships to level 4 and cruise & heavy missiles both to 4.
I know nothing about Ewar but want to learn all I can.
I looked at ECM multi specteral jammer- is that a good option?- is it a passive or active module as most of the Evefits fill the mids with this module on the Scorpion.
Any help or advice would be good particulary with regard as to how good Ewar ships are and what place they have in fleet battles.
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Firkragg
Blue Labs
Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:13:00 -
[2]
Generally you will want to fit racial jammers rather than multispecs since they have a higher jam strength, more range, and less cap use.
If you have caldari cruiser 5 you might want to consider training recons and flying a falcon instead.
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Pteranodon
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Posted - 2008.09.10 13:20:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Firkragg
Generally you will want to fit racial jammers rather than multispecs since they have a higher jam strength, more range, and less cap use.
If you have caldari cruiser 5 you might want to consider training recons and flying a falcon instead.
I want to deal with Falcons but if you cant beat em......everyman & his dog seems to be flying them.
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BiggestT
Caldari
Space Oddysey
Pupule 'Ohana
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Posted - 2008.09.10 15:07:00 -
[4]
Scorpion is great for fleets but beware that you will be primary.
Hostile fc's will spot the weakest bs on the field that is potentially the most damaging and call it primary. So you wont last long.
If your going to fly a bs in a fleet, just train for hybrids with a rokh, much more fleet friendly.
If you really love ecm, do as firkragg said, train for a falcon.
Also when ppl say "yarr ignore ecm and fit a huge buffer tank to laugh at primaring fc's yarr"
plz ignore them.
FLying a bs into a fleet simply to annoy the hostiles is pretty poor imo, your not contributing much unless you do something like fit rr/smartbombs etc..
Proudly annoying FC's since 2007
Please resize signature to the allowed size of 400 x 120 pixels. Navigator
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Presidio
Hug Nutz
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Posted - 2008.09.10 16:17:00 -
[5]
Fleet battles = lag.
I would much rather loose a scorp then a falcon due to lag.
-
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Jennae
Gallente
LiveTech
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:57:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Presidio
Fleet battles = lag.
I would much rather loose a scorp then a falcon due to lag.
exactly in a fleet a falcon or a scorp are gunna be primaried. Better to lose a fully insured BS than a tech2 falcon.
plus, the scorp can actually fit more jammers and have more EHP with 2x 1600mm plates
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Laura Loquacious
Broken Radar
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Posted - 2008.09.10 19:58:00 -
[7]
yea and then look at your jam strength...
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Rawr Cristina
Caldari
Omerta Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:25:00 -
[8]
Prob with ECM ships is as soon as they start fitting any kind of tank, their jamming abilities drop massively to the point where they arn't very effective.
- Infectious - |
Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.09.10 20:53:00 -
[9]
My fit. 130km range on the ECM, so not huge - and 9.1 on the ECM strength. With a low-grade slave set and a good pilot in gang you get just under 30k armor.
Ofc, this is what I used to use before the falcon. But then again, as others have said, all because of lag. I don't do large fleet stuff anymore, mainly about 10-15 in gang. Nothing biggger, so lag isn't a problem, hence the falcon is far more suitable.
[Scorpion, Plated ECM]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
CZ-4 Concussive Spatial Destabilizer ECM
CZ-4 Concussive Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Halting Phase Inversion ECM I
Halting Phase Inversion ECM I
Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
'Shade' I White Noise ECM
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Particle Dispersion Projector I
Med Armor Bot x5
Warrior II x5
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Sarin Adler
Caldari
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Posted - 2008.09.10 21:31:00 -
[10]
I think scorps can be fitted very nicelly: in couples with remote repairers they can stand a lot of damage and be nice support (haven't played on blob-lag warfare, but I guess this could work), also they can be excellent ECM-snippers, even anti-falcons.
---
Alts, the root of all evil. |
Derek Sigres
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:32:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Laura Loquacious
yea and then look at your jam strength...
Yes, your jam strength is probably lower in a scorpion but not so much that it is really all that MEANINGFUL if the enemy doesn't fit ECCM. Afterall, 50% jam chance on a battleship in a fleet combat scenario will essentially remove the ship from the fight forever anyway thanks to lag.
Fleet fights are often FULL of ships that are perfectly well suited to killing ECM ships anyway, meaning not only will you be noticed, you WILL be shot at and the scorpion is inarguably better at surviving a volley from a group of snipers than the falcon who may well pop in a single shot.
The scorpion's home is in fleet battles. Yes a falcon can work there as well but it's advantages in smaller gangs quickly disappear. Agility means little if you die in a single volley (and it takes perhaps 4 - 5 volleys from a rail ship to kill a falcon, meaning it's QUITE easy to alpha one to death). Lock time is virtually meaningless when much of the advantage is going to go to the person who ends up on the happier side of the lag spectrum. Lock range is irrelevent for a host of reasons (a free slot for a SB for example). The cloak means little simply because in a fleet situation unless you bring GOBS of ewar there will be a signfiicant quantity of the opposing fleet that can jam you. Finally, in the game of russian roulette that fleet combat represents, a scorpion is infinitely superior. Afterall, the ship itself is all but free thanks to insurance and a tech 2 fit won't set you back more than 25 - 30 million isk. The falcon on the other hand costs 70+ million isk for the ship itself plus the fittings.
I'd take a scorpion into fleet combat before a falcon any day of the week, and I'd like to think anyone with enough sense to look past the "on paper" jam strength would come to the same conclusion.
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Master Raydon
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Posted - 2008.09.10 22:55:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Franga
My fit. 130km range on the ECM, so not huge - and 9.1 on the ECM strength. With a low-grade slave set and a good pilot in gang you get just under 30k armor.
Ofc, this is what I used to use before the falcon. But then again, as others have said, all because of lag. I don't do large fleet stuff anymore, mainly about 10-15 in gang. Nothing biggger, so lag isn't a problem, hence the falcon is far more suitable.
[Scorpion, Plated ECM]
Damage Control II
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
1600mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
CZ-4 Concussive Spatial Destabilizer ECM
CZ-4 Concussive Spatial Destabilizer ECM
Halting Phase Inversion ECM I
Halting Phase Inversion ECM I
Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
Compulsive Ion Field ECM I
'Shade' I White Noise ECM
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
'Limos' Cruise Launcher I, Caldari Navy Devastator Cruise Missile
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Large 'Solace' I Remote Bulwark Reconstruction
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Particle Dispersion Augmentor I
Particle Dispersion Projector I
Med Armor Bot x5
Warrior II x5
Thx for that setup man...I've been looking for this also.
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Miyamoto Uroki
Caldari
KuhSchubsKlan
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Posted - 2008.09.11 07:00:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Sarin Adler
I think scorps can be fitted very nicelly: in couples with remote repairers they can stand a lot of damage and be nice support (haven't played on blob-lag warfare, but I guess this could work), also they can be excellent ECM-snippers, even anti-falcons.
This so far is the most competent scorp pilot in this thread, imho.
Like with all ECM ships, stick to then standard rules of survival:
- do not arrive on battlefield until the fight is going on for a few seconds
- use your superior range, including range rigs, sensor boosters and stuff
- be aligned, fit anti-tackler mods like Heavy Energy Neutralizer
Especially the scorpion makes an awesome fleet ecm ship, as already mentioned its fully insurable, can "tank" a bit more and has the needed range. Plus the extra stuff that can be fitted, as fitting any offensive weapons like cruise missiles is a waste of slots imho.
For highs you could go for: Large Remote Armor reps (nice if you have multiple scorps sitting at one spot, will be an enemy magnet though), Heavy Energy Neutralizer for any very fast close combat enemies, Auto Targting System II (for that 3 more locked targets for fast ecm switching), Cyno gen or Smartbombs
With rigs and good skills you should be able to reach the almost 250km mark for your ecm. With mediocre rigs I positioned myself in 220km range and it worked perfectly. Just pick a fleet mate who is in sniper bs, ask him at what range he will warp in, and adjust your warp in on him to get into the fight at a good distance.
Originally by: Puupuu
dude... your face
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Carniflex
Caldari
StarHunt
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2008.09.11 09:14:00 -
[14]
In 0.0 fleet battles MWD is also good idea on scorp to get out of bubbles or away from HiC that managed to get warp in on you. It does sacrifice a mid slot, but at least you will be able to warp out and back in.
My setup is
4x cruise ii 2x something else (1x..0x auto target ii + 1x .. 2xlarge remote armor repper usually)
1x MWD 1x Sensor booster 6x ECM
1x signal distortion amp II 2x 1600 mm plate 1x DCU II
no rigs + 15x warrior II drone
No local repper tho so to get back into feet you need someone remote repping you. With lock range script I have range of 180 km in it. Ofc I use racial jammers.
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Cogswin Iannyen
Caldari
Minmatar Mafia
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Posted - 2008.09.11 12:13:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Cogswin Iannyen on 11/09/2008 12:19:07
You have a deep wallet, look into the Sin.
Currently, for small to medium gang warfare, and even some brave rich people in fleets, falcons win over scorps all the time. Both are gonna be primaried, but the falcon can take the scorpion out of the ECM fight fast, and the scorp is gonna be primaried. If the falcon pilot does it right, he uncloaks and jams the scorp, then recloaks, moves/warps while cloaked, and lets his mates beat the hell out of the jammed scorp while he gets into another jam position, then begins the process all over.
The falcon is simply more maneuverable. However, the scorpion is easier on the wallet. Not really an issue for you though. If you REALLY want to learn ECM, then start with a Kitsune or a Blackbird. Get a feel for it on the hellacheap, then move up to scorps and falcons once you get a handle on it.
And for pure bling effect.... get a Widow.. 
EDIT ~ I broke teh forumz.
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Drakine
Interstellar Xenocide
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Posted - 2008.09.11 12:52:00 -
[16]
I was messing arround with a Scorp Fitting
Highs
4x 425 II Rail Guns
2x Standard Missile Launchers (Anti Tackle)
Mid
1x 100MN II MWD
2x Tracking Computers
1x Sensor Booster
4x Multispec Jammers
Lows
2x Signal Distortian Amps
2x Tracking Enhancers
Drones
15 Hobogoblins
Idea
Is to Jam random people while shotting the primary & having a good anti tackle defence. Most people use Cruise Missiles but I dont see the logic in Missiles in a Fleet Fight because they take time to travel where as the guns are instant, Maybe I missed something but I would like to be informed by Cruise Missiles are used over guns when the ship as no direct bonus to Cruise missules.
"Special Ability: 15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level."
Maybe I missed something.
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Evanade
Rionnag Alba
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.11 14:09:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Franga
My fit.
Why all the crappy named stuff man :(
[Scorpion, Fleet]
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Signal Distortion Amplifier II
Damage Control II
100MN MicroWarpdrive II
Sensor Booster II, Targeting Range
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
ECM - Phase Inverter II
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Precision Cruise Missile
Cruise Missile Launcher II, Paradise Precision Cruise Missile
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Heavy Unstable Power Fluctuator I
Particle Dispersion Projector I
Ionic Field Projector I
Jams reliably out to 200km even with so-so skills. In fleets, dont bother with all different sorts of ECMs focus on one or two types so you wont get confused.
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sok alt - main got banzored |
Kyle Klanen
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Posted - 2008.09.11 14:52:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Drakine
Most people use Cruise Missiles but I dont see the logic in Missiles in a Fleet Fight because they take time to travel where as the guns are instant, Maybe I missed something but I would like to be informed by Cruise Missiles are used over guns when the ship as no direct bonus to Cruise missules.
"Special Ability: 15% bonus to ECM Target Jammer strength and 20% bonus to ECM Target Jammer optimal range per level."
Maybe I missed something.
Cruise missiles dont use cap and use less fitting so its really easy to get the heavy neuts on which are much more important than any firepower because ideally you wont be placing your self in either railgun or missile range, if you really want guns artys are probably the better option due to no cap usage.
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Beltantis Torrence
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Posted - 2008.09.11 16:50:00 -
[19]
On a related note, I'm trying to figure out how I want to fit out a Scorpion for faction warfare. I mention FW because it differs from 0.0 fleets in that, there's a lot of chasing - so having range isn't the sort of option that it is in normal fleet warfare. The likely engagement scenario is 30-40 vs 30-40 on a gate close range.
My thoughts are :
1) Tank is more important than amps in this scenario.
2) Spider tanking is required.
3) Cruises in the highs is less important than NOS due to remote reps and short conflict times.
4) You're going to die a lot so expensive named/rigs doesn't make sense. You won't get the 'bang for your buck'.
5) Range isn't as important.
With those points in mind here is the fit I'm considering - I'll have to play around in EFT to get a fit but these are my initial impressions:
Highs - 4x NOS, 2x RLAR's - All T1 non-named.
Mids - 2x2x2 racial ecm's, 1x med cap booster w/ 800's, 1x cap recharger II
Lows - 2x rolled tungsten 1600's, 1x dcu II, 1x eanm 2
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Evanade
Originally by: Franga
My fit.
Why all the crappy named stuff man :(
I have no money.
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Franga
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2008.09.11 21:29:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Beltantis Torrence
Highs - 4x NOS, 2x RLAR's - All T1 non-named.
Mids - 2x2x2 racial ecm's, 1x med cap booster w/ 800's, 1x cap recharger II
Lows - 2x rolled tungsten 1600's, 1x dcu II, 1x eanm 2
Highlighted part is really dumb. Will make next to no difference, go with a sensor booster instead. Also, with that setup, your ECM strength is very low. You'll have trouble jamming cruisers.
The idea behind cruise is that you'll generally be far away from your targets, I sort of get your idea with things happening on gates, but most of the time you'll be jamming things that people are going to kill first in FW, so NOS won't really be worth it.
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