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Drusilla
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:01:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Drusilla on 14/06/2004 18:03:03
Which frigate is the best in combat vs other frigates? Which are the best against NPC rat spawns, and how big of a ship can you take out with them? How would you set the frigate up and what tactics would youuse?
I'm considering compiling a big guide to frigates and am curious to see what information people will share and how in-depth it is, and am personally interested in learning more from the pros.
Elites are the obvious big dogs and Kestrels with their missiles are nasty, but I'm more interested in learning more about other, more standard types.
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:12:00 -
[2]
A merlin is great for npc fighting because you can tank the shields and have close to 300 shields and have 2 missile launchers in case things get a little out of hand.
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Grimpak
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:17:00 -
[3]
 Originally by: Dirtball
A merlin is great for npc fighting because you can tank the shields and have close to 300 shields and have 2 missile launchers in case things get a little out of hand.
...although a rifter might be good too.
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Quote:
Fragm's Oversized Ego Cannon barely scratches the forums, inflicting omgnoonecares damage
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Dirtball
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:24:00 -
[4]
Originally by: Grimpak
...although a rifter might be good too.
I was going to say rifter for pvp and merlin for npcs, but I figured I'd better stick to stuff I have a decent amount of experience in, and that's fighting npcs in my merlin.
Merlin gives you a longer targetting range than the rifter and the merlin gives you that optimal range bonus, and I prefer to stay at long range against npcs.
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MinTol
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:30:00 -
[5]
Gallante: incursus is a pure dmg dealer with blasters and tristan is very good as well. maulus is ok and it has like 13 in sensor strength i think :/.
minmatar: rifter, vigil and the breacher are nice.
caldari: Merlin and kestrel.
Amarr: punisher ofc and i forgot what the amarr's missile boat is called :/
I dont have a lot of xperience with most of those frigates but this is what i beleave it right :)
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0verkill
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:34:00 -
[6]
Rifter pwn's in PVP. Can take down even cruisers solo. A few can take out a bs no problem. Optimal is a few rifters and a few kestrals (like 2 and 2) to kill a bs.
0verkill
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean we aren't out to get you.
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2004.06.14 18:41:00 -
[7]
Ok, so we seem to have a few favorites here. Some folks are saying you can take out cruisers in frigates. To do that, how would you set up, and what tactics would you use?
Is anyone willing to help contribute article info for a frigate combat guide?
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0verkill
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Posted - 2004.06.14 19:13:00 -
[8]
I have killed many cruisers in frigs, try a rifter with 2 launchers 2 autocannons, 1 MWD 1 warp scrambler, 2 cap relays. Just orbit and fire. It isn't easy and if they have close range weapons on you go down fast. Usually stay away from thorax's (drones and blasters) and bb's (usually have a web). The missle's on a cruiser can't hit you if you go > 2k so moa's and caracals are fun to rip apart.
0verkill
Just because you're paranoid doesn't mean we aren't out to get you.
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Zoneh
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Posted - 2004.06.14 19:44:00 -
[9]
Riftah ownage:
3 280mm(EMP S or Phased Plasma S) 1 Standard Launcher
1 MWD 1 SB
1Cap Relay 1Micro Aux Power Core
Its a cool setup that can kill any fig, havent try on cruisers yet..
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Zoneh
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Posted - 2004.06.14 19:45:00 -
[10]
Edited by: Zoneh on 14/06/2004 19:49:04
double post sorry
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Naz Farooq
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Posted - 2004.06.14 20:28:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Naz Farooq on 14/06/2004 20:43:44
Until the patch I'd say Breacher is the 2nd best standard frig, what with the 3 launcher slots.
For NPC's it's tough to beat the Rifter as it can cram on 3 280 howies and push range. They're also good in PvP with autocannons (280's track like a 90-year old in a Lincoln Town Car) and launchers, but the targeting range is really quite awful so keep that in mind.
I also like the Vigil for PvP, as you can do two autocannons and a launcher, it has wonderful speed, and has 3 med slots and 3 low. So there are tons of possibilies there.
Granted, I am a Minnie and these are all Minnie ships, but they have a combination of speed, launchers, and projectiles which is tough to beat.
Oh, I should add. Provided NPC missiles are changed with the patch as well the only decent NPC fighting frigs should be the Kestrel and Breacher. It's going to be tough on Rifters if light missiles are reaching out 45+ km. Heck, it's going to be tough on Ruptures when heavies are reaching out 65+ km. ;)
Sure, everyone supports saving Einstein's brain, but when you put it in the body of a Great White Shark, suddenly you've "gone too far". |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.06.14 20:38:00 -
[12]
Granted its the ship you didnt wanna hear about, but I really like Kestrel loaded with heavies (pre-patch) for hunting NPCs. Stick on a small shield booster, an armor repairer, and an afterburner and stick at range. I like it because heavy spam combined with Kestrels long targeting range lets me kill a lot of small NPCs very fast, and gives you plenty of punch to take down NPC cruisers. It looks like after the patch you can still do that with lights, but fighting NPC missile spammers may be a problem if theyre not nerfed as well. Merlin is also really good, just be sure to use an afterburner or two on it so you can stay within your optimal range.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Del Narveux
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Posted - 2004.06.14 20:38:00 -
[13]
Granted its the ship you didnt wanna hear about, but I really like Kestrel loaded with heavies (pre-patch) for hunting NPCs. Stick on a small shield booster, an armor repairer, and an afterburner and stick at range. I like it because heavy spam combined with Kestrels long targeting range lets me kill a lot of small NPCs very fast, and gives you plenty of punch to take down NPC cruisers. It looks like after the patch you can still do that with lights, but fighting NPC missile spammers may be a problem if theyre not nerfed as well. Merlin is also really good, just be sure to use an afterburner or two on it so you can stay within your optimal range.
_________________
[SAK] And Proud Of It!
aka Cpt Bogus
Is that my torped sig cloaking your base? |
Mrissa Easeah
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Posted - 2004.06.14 20:52:00 -
[14]
In ramping up to learning to use the Taranis, I used a backported setup on an Incursis since the slots are comparable (3/3/2 with 1 less high and low slot than on the Taranis) which worked rather well. Not sure I'd take it up against cruisers, though it might handle NPC 30-35k cruisers if you can survive the escort.
3x modal light ion cannon high.
1 small shield booster, 1 MWD, 1 capactior battery mid.
1 damage modifier, 1 micro aux power core low.
Antimatter rounds, decent skill levels (3-5 range) and rush in with a pulse or two of the MWD, aimed at orbitting at 2.5km (or closer) and it makes confetti of just about anything under 45k relatively quickly.
Cons: Does not do well against large or even moderate groups of medium/heavy frigates - you'll find yourself having to flit out on MWD and balancing against the shield booster, recharging shields, then plunging back in to finish the rest, often with some moderate armor damage. Definitely prone to scrambling, etc. and almost too slow to swap the MWD for an AB (this ups the surviveability a bit, but makes travel times, including closing into the optimal range).
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2004.06.14 21:35:00 -
[15]
I'm curious to know how folks handle cruiser spawns with escorts in a frigate. Anyone want to take a stab at explaining how to handle them?
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Steven Dynahir
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Posted - 2004.06.14 23:22:00 -
[16]
Put three smartbombs into a frig, time them for 3sec continous and no kestrel is going to shoot you. 
SigPl/HQ&Log Coy/MNB(C)/KFOR |
Shamis Orzoz
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Posted - 2004.06.14 23:49:00 -
[17]
Breachers own. Almost as much firepower as a kestrel, and almost as much speed as a rifter, a perfect blend.
Shamis
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Caeneus
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Posted - 2004.06.15 01:29:00 -
[18]
Griffin is an often overlooked frigate, its actually quite good. No honestly try it you will be surprised! 
Other than that, Rifter and Merlin are very good combat vessels.
Can't think of anything witty to put here. |
Prodigious
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Posted - 2004.06.15 02:05:00 -
[19]
k everyone stfu. Rifter hands down. nuff said. 
breacher wont b as cool after the patch.
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.06.15 02:24:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Prodigious
k everyone stfu. Rifter hands down. nuff said.
breacher wont b as cool after the patch.
Nope. Sorry. The Breacher is currently at least the equal of the Rifter, and post-patch will likely be far superior. The reason for this is the ships targeting range. A Rifter has a very short targeting range (IIRC, somewhere around 24km), while a Breachers range can go up into the 40km+ range (Breachers get a targeting range bonus for your minmatar frigate skill). Currently this means you can do some really nifty Breacher tactics to take out Rifters (for instance, head away from the Rifter to try and get it to follow you. Target it at 40km and then turn around and head at it. If both of you are running with MWD, it will probably not be able to target and web you before you pass outside of web range).
Post patch a Breacher will be able to simply hang off around 40km from a Rifter and spam light missiles at it. The missiles will go faster than the Rifter (assuming the Rifter pilot hasn't fitted an extra AB or a pair of good overdrives) and the Rifter won't be able to do anything back (since it can't target at that range). The only thing the Rifter could do in that case is to warp away.
As for using frigates to take out cruiser spawns, it's actually pretty simple. The easiest spawns to take out are Serpentis, so try it out on them (assuming we don't get our missile-nerfing patch tomorrow): Fit out a Breacher with 3 launchers, MWD, sensor booster, cap power relay and an overdrive. Stock it with a pile of heavy missiles (I carry EM missiles to drop my targets shields, plus explosive missiles for use against armor and structure). Find a nice spawn. Turn on your MWD and sensor booster and make long, elliptical orbits (you'll have to do this manually) taking you from around 30km to around 80km from your targets. Target one of the cruisers and fire your EM heavies when you're inbound at around 40km. Reload while you're heading back out, then come back in and repeat. When your targets shields are down (this usually takes 6 missiles for small cruisers, more for bigger ones), switch to explosive missiles and continue. The frigate escorts typically take 2 EM and 4 explosive missiles to take out. The most time-efficient way of doing this is to load up all EM, target 3, and fire one launcher at each. Then reload with explosive and do the same thing. Reload with explosive again and fire at the three, and that ought to take care of the three targets. Keep in mind that this is all pre-patch, and that it can take quite a while (I've taken out a spawn with multiple cruisers up to 85k, with frigate escort. It took over half an hour).
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
Mikelangelo
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Posted - 2004.06.15 04:59:00 -
[21]
Rifter and Vigil definitely.
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Prodigious
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Posted - 2004.06.15 05:31:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi
Originally by: Prodigious
k everyone stfu. Rifter hands down. nuff said.
breacher wont b as cool after the patch.
Nope. Sorry. The Breacher is currently at least the equal of the Rifter, and post-patch will likely be far superior. The reason for this is the ships targeting range. A Rifter has a very short targeting range (IIRC, somewhere around 24km), while a Breachers range can go up into the 40km+ range (Breachers get a targeting range bonus for your minmatar frigate skill). Currently this means you can do some really nifty Breacher tactics to take out Rifters (for instance, head away from the Rifter to try and get it to follow you. Target it at 40km and then turn around and head at it. If both of you are running with MWD, it will probably not be able to target and web you before you pass outside of web range).
Post patch a Breacher will be able to simply hang off around 40km from a Rifter and spam light missiles at it. The missiles will go faster than the Rifter (assuming the Rifter pilot hasn't fitted an extra AB or a pair of good overdrives) and the Rifter won't be able to do anything back (since it can't target at that range). The only thing the Rifter could do in that case is to warp away.
As for using frigates to take out cruiser spawns, it's actually pretty simple. The easiest spawns to take out are Serpentis, so try it out on them (assuming we don't get our missile-nerfing patch tomorrow): Fit out a Breacher with 3 launchers, MWD, sensor booster, cap power relay and an overdrive. Stock it with a pile of heavy missiles (I carry EM missiles to drop my targets shields, plus explosive missiles for use against armor and structure). Find a nice spawn. Turn on your MWD and sensor booster and make long, elliptical orbits (you'll have to do this manually) taking you from around 30km to around 80km from your targets. Target one of the cruisers and fire your EM heavies when you're inbound at around 40km. Reload while you're heading back out, then come back in and repeat. When your targets shields are down (this usually takes 6 missiles for small cruisers, more for bigger ones), switch to explosive missiles and continue. The frigate escorts typically take 2 EM and 4 explosive missiles to take out. The most time-efficient way of doing this is to load up all EM, target 3, and fire one launcher at each. Then reload with explosive and do the same thing. Reload with explosive again and fire at the three, and that ought to take care of the three targets. Keep in mind that this is all pre-patch, and that it can take quite a while (I've taken out a spawn with multiple cruisers up to 85k, with frigate escort. It took over half an hour).
FINE. DAMN IT. i admit it, i dont use the breacher cuz it looks like a piece of ****. buncha metal rods stuck joined by a metal box.
seriously though, u can mount 2 blasters and 2 launchers on a rif, which would******any other frig. breacher would b tricky to take out cuz it would be just as fast.
training for claw atm.. it's like a suped up rifter.
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Kamath
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Posted - 2004.06.15 06:34:00 -
[23]
hi,
Tristan and rifter are cool for pvp.
Tristan u can fit
2 light neutron
1 launcher
1 smart bomb
1 mwd
1 webber
1 scarmbler
Rifter u can fit
2 200mm autocanon
2 launcher
1 10MN AB
1 statis or scramble
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Nan Flori
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Posted - 2004.06.15 08:42:00 -
[24]
The Incursus is a good ship too, for PVP and NPCs
i use something like that:
high: 3 (named) blasters)
med: mwd, warp scrambler, webbie/cap battery
low: cap power relays (maybe a aux power core, depending on the blasters)
just hit mwd and orbit. the damage output is really good and large guns won't hit you. the only thing to worry about are drones and if the enemy has a webifier.
Nan
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Drusilla
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Posted - 2004.06.15 22:03:00 -
[25]
So it seems tha tpeople are saying that taking out NPC spawns is best done with long ranged frigates, whereas PvP fights seem to be more the venue of short ranged frigates, is that right?
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Shintoko Akahoshi
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Posted - 2004.06.19 03:12:00 -
[26]
Yep, that's about the size of it.
There are, of course, exceptions: If you've got a long range setup and you can keep your short-ranged opponent at range, then you will have the advantage. This is harder than it sounds, though: At long range your opponent can warp out if they feel they are losing the fight. Warp scramblers and such are all fairly close-in devices...
There's no meaning to life when you cling only to common sense |
deathfighter
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Posted - 2004.07.03 06:56:00 -
[27]
Edited by: deathfighter on 03/07/2004 07:02:35
i can easily take cruiser spawn with my rifter
The key is speed.
3x200mm + 1 misile launcher
2 afetburners
1 overdrive injector + 1 small armor repair
for a spawn of 1 50k and 3-4 10k
i't fairly easy u warp at 60k and wait for them to aproach. usualy the cruiser comes first. u wait unitl he starts shoting and start orbitin at that range with your 2 ab on i do 920m/s. you might get hit once not big deal. this way u will stay 30k and orbiting away from the cruiser but will come close to the frigs. pick one that's 10k away and start orbiting that one. if u stop for 1 sec is enaugh to get killed. once u turn on your 200mm with emp a frig is gone in seconds. use your m launcher for the next frig before finishing this one. now frigs will get 2-10 damage shots on you once in a while that's why aromr repair is for. it's important never to slow down. after u get rid of the frigs the cruiser is very simple. orbit him at first at 15 and than at 10 and than at 2.5 or 1 km. turn your ab's off u will be doingabout 500m/s no way he can hit u. turn on your 200mm with emp. u should be dealing more damage than the frigs coz 1. u are going slower and 2. larger target. once shields are gone switch to fusion or titanium sabolt. doesn't take long. at this point doesn't mater how many cruisers ar there they can't hit u.
if the frigs are packing light misiles it gets tricky. everything is the same expect that u start shoting your light misiles at it and try to close fast always orbiting and hope u can kill it before it will kill u. if u manage to kill that one than the groop is gone. your speed should never drop 700 on orbiting mode. 1 good hit from the cruiser will triger your auto-eject lol. but it's fairly easy and the real prob are the frigs.
200mm with emp do amazingly great 12-26 every 1.9 sec every time. good luck. convo me in game if u need to prctice some biger spawns with me.
Death
p.s. i have tried mwd's but don't like them 2 ab's are realy good no signiture penalties and u can run them forever and still be able to use armor rep.
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deathfighter
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Posted - 2004.07.03 06:56:00 -
[28]
Edited by: deathfighter on 03/07/2004 07:02:35
i can easily take cruiser spawn with my rifter
The key is speed.
3x200mm + 1 misile launcher
2 afetburners
1 overdrive injector + 1 small armor repair
for a spawn of 1 50k and 3-4 10k
i't fairly easy u warp at 60k and wait for them to aproach. usualy the cruiser comes first. u wait unitl he starts shoting and start orbitin at that range with your 2 ab on i do 920m/s. you might get hit once not big deal. this way u will stay 30k and orbiting away from the cruiser but will come close to the frigs. pick one that's 10k away and start orbiting that one. if u stop for 1 sec is enaugh to get killed. once u turn on your 200mm with emp a frig is gone in seconds. use your m launcher for the next frig before finishing this one. now frigs will get 2-10 damage shots on you once in a while that's why aromr repair is for. it's important never to slow down. after u get rid of the frigs the cruiser is very simple. orbit him at first at 15 and than at 10 and than at 2.5 or 1 km. turn your ab's off u will be doingabout 500m/s no way he can hit u. turn on your 200mm with emp. u should be dealing more damage than the frigs coz 1. u are going slower and 2. larger target. once shields are gone switch to fusion or titanium sabolt. doesn't take long. at this point doesn't mater how many cruisers ar there they can't hit u.
if the frigs are packing light misiles it gets tricky. everything is the same expect that u start shoting your light misiles at it and try to close fast always orbiting and hope u can kill it before it will kill u. if u manage to kill that one than the groop is gone. your speed should never drop 700 on orbiting mode. 1 good hit from the cruiser will triger your auto-eject lol. but it's fairly easy and the real prob are the frigs.
200mm with emp do amazingly great 12-26 every 1.9 sec every time. good luck. convo me in game if u need to prctice some biger spawns with me.
Death
p.s. i have tried mwd's but don't like them 2 ab's are realy good no signiture penalties and u can run them forever and still be able to use armor rep.
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Jolly Death
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Posted - 2004.07.03 09:52:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi
Originally by: Prodigious
k everyone stfu. Rifter hands down. nuff said.
breacher wont b as cool after the patch.
Nope. Sorry. The Breacher is currently at least the equal of the Rifter, and post-patch will likely be far superior. The reason for this is the ships targeting range. A Rifter has a very short targeting range (IIRC, somewhere around 24km), while a Breachers range can go up into the 40km+ range (Breachers get a targeting range bonus for your minmatar frigate skill). Currently this means you can do some really nifty Breacher tactics to take out Rifters (for instance, head away from the Rifter to try and get it to follow you. Target it at 40km and then turn around and head at it. If both of you are running with MWD, it will probably not be able to target and web you before you pass outside of web range).
Post patch a Breacher will be able to simply hang off around 40km from a Rifter and spam light missiles at it. The missiles will go faster than the Rifter (assuming the Rifter pilot hasn't fitted an extra AB or a pair of good overdrives) and the Rifter won't be able to do anything back (since it can't target at that range). The only thing the Rifter could do in that case is to warp away.
Well, since the only missile type you can carry now on a breacher is light ones, I would say you would get a really hard time trying to hit something 40km away with those.
(since they only travel for about ~20km before depleted)
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Jolly Death
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Posted - 2004.07.03 09:52:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Shintoko Akahoshi
Originally by: Prodigious
k everyone stfu. Rifter hands down. nuff said.
breacher wont b as cool after the patch.
Nope. Sorry. The Breacher is currently at least the equal of the Rifter, and post-patch will likely be far superior. The reason for this is the ships targeting range. A Rifter has a very short targeting range (IIRC, somewhere around 24km), while a Breachers range can go up into the 40km+ range (Breachers get a targeting range bonus for your minmatar frigate skill). Currently this means you can do some really nifty Breacher tactics to take out Rifters (for instance, head away from the Rifter to try and get it to follow you. Target it at 40km and then turn around and head at it. If both of you are running with MWD, it will probably not be able to target and web you before you pass outside of web range).
Post patch a Breacher will be able to simply hang off around 40km from a Rifter and spam light missiles at it. The missiles will go faster than the Rifter (assuming the Rifter pilot hasn't fitted an extra AB or a pair of good overdrives) and the Rifter won't be able to do anything back (since it can't target at that range). The only thing the Rifter could do in that case is to warp away.
Well, since the only missile type you can carry now on a breacher is light ones, I would say you would get a really hard time trying to hit something 40km away with those.
(since they only travel for about ~20km before depleted)
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