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PvP Rokh a good idea?

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Aziz Hekato Vitai Lampada	Posted - 2008.09.13 09:34:00 - [31] I made this setup in EFT and it looks quite good: LOW: 1x Reactor Control Unit II 1x Reactor Control Unit II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II 1x Magnetic Field Stabilizer II MED: 1x X-Large Shield Booster II 1x Invulnerability Field II 1x Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I /800's 1x Heavy Electrochemical Capacitor Booster I /800's 1x Quad LiF Fueled I Booster Rockets 1x Warp Disruptor II HIGH: 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter 1x Neutron Blaster Cannon II /Navy antimatter RIGS: Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I 78,841 EHP 72/72/72/77 resistance 310 sustained damagage 507 Reinforced defense efficieny 740 DPS 3506 Alpha This fits with WU V, AWU IV and Energy Grid Upgrades V (and ofc Engineering and the other standard fitting skills). If you'd like you can swap one of the cap boosters a webber if you want to go solo with this, not very capfriendly though, but meh. Should be noted that I have never flied a caldari ship nor have used hybrids and therefore don't know if this would even work. _____________________________ Entering the Intergalactic Summit forum is like walking into a Startrek convention; All you'll see is a bunch of nerds and you'll go "WTF?"
Danirus	Posted - 2008.09.13 09:59:00 - [32] Edited by: Danirus on 13/09/2008 10:02:13 Edited by: Danirus on 13/09/2008 10:00:31 A setup I've been playing around with on EFT but not tried it out yet (I can't use t2 blasters but this is what I would put on if I could) Neutron Blaster Cannon II x6 E500 Prototype Vamp Large 'Notos' smartbomb Heavy Cap Booster II (800) Invul Field II x2 X-Large Shield Booster II Warp Disruptor II Fleeting Propulsion Inhibitor Damage Control II Magnetic Stab II x2 Power Diagnostic II Large 'Accomodation' Repper Anti-EM Screen Core Defence Cap safeguard x2 Requires AWU 5 and all other fitting related skills lvl 5 + 'Squire' PG4 implant 49% cap efficiency without smartbomb and armor repper running, so you can save all cap charges to rep armor and shields simutainiously Remote repper instead of a 3rd mag stab in my eyes could be worth it. Shield Resists: EM-71.9, Term-72.8, Kin-79.6, Exp-83
Kurt Gergard Caldari Custodes Mandati Imperii	Posted - 2008.09.13 10:41:00 - [33] Edited by: Kurt Gergard on 13/09/2008 10:42:27 Originally by: Tashiell Gao Seeing as Greckor Monmouth stand up heroically as I don't have Hybrid skills trained. Will you duel Greckor Monmouth (instead of me) using your set-up as you have challenged me at above posts? Man I am not someone who bites and does not let it lose, I believe everyone else here isn't that type either. So just stop posting here and everyone will forget it. To the OP check the killboards of famous Coprerations who fights in similar situations you want to fight in. Search thier lose mails for Rohk, I am sure you will find few of your idol's Set-up Naturaly i can fight him np. EDIT: Up till now i only lost with this setup 1 vs 1 with a hyperion and the pilot used boosters. "No plan has ever survived the contact with the enemy" von Moltke
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.09.14 03:18:00 - [34] Any figthing done? ;) :P
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.19 06:53:00 - [35] Why does everyone propose to use blasters, the rokh will always be inferiour to a Megathron when using blasters, just think of the Megathron's damage and tracking bonus and the larger drone bay, which allows to use heavy drones. If i'd ever use a Rokh that would be a sniper Rokh with 3-4 mag. field stabs, 2 sensor boosters with target range skripts, and 8x 425mm rails with spike ammo. That's what the ship is made for imo, and not close combat. _________ My e-peen
Lt Angus Caldari Lt Angus Corp	Posted - 2008.09.19 07:19:00 - [36] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Why does everyone propose to use blasters, the rokh will always be inferiour to a Megathron when using blasters, just think of the Megathron's damage and tracking bonus and the larger drone bay, which allows to use heavy drones. If i'd ever use a Rokh that would be a sniper Rokh with 3-4 mag. field stabs, 2 sensor boosters with target range skripts, and 8x 425mm rails with spike ammo. That's what the ship is made for imo, and not close combat. blaster rokh is not inferiour to mega, rokh has 1 more turret and can fit 3-4 dmg mods while out tanking the mega, Shhhh, Im hunting Badgers
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:01:00 - [37] Originally by: Lt Angus blaster rokh is not inferiour to mega, rokh has 1 more turret and can fit 3-4 dmg mods while out tanking the mega, With the Mega's damage bonus it has 8,75 effective turrets, but most important it has a 37.5% tracking bonus, wich is not stacking penalized against tracking modules. I'm not a gunnery expert, but isn't tracking a crucial factor, if you fight at blaster ranges ? This make up a lot, depends on how important that is. And finally 5 heavy drones deal quite a bit more dps than 5 mediums. The shield resistance bonus is of course a solid advantage, but a mwd and a web are a must on a blaster ship, and people might like to fit a scrambler and a sensor booster aswell, after that there won't be much tank left on the Rokh. I'd still prefer the Mega for blasters, especially because of the tracking bonus. _________ My e-peen
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:09:00 - [38] FFS when does the forum stop eating my post. Anyway allthough you can solo in a rokh, it really shines in gangs. Then you can let others do the tackling, and use those extra mid slots for a tank that a mega wont come near. Megas usually dont have and full tackling gear and sensor booster (mwd web scram injector normally). And a rokh can easily shoot at 20km distance, a mega not that easy. They both got advantages and disadvantages, but rokh certainly has its uses.
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:32:00 - [39] Edited by: Mike''s Salesman on 19/09/2008 11:37:02 Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Lt Angus blaster rokh is not inferiour to mega, rokh has 1 more turret and can fit 3-4 dmg mods while out tanking the mega, With the Mega's damage bonus it has 8,75 effective turrets, but most important it has a 37.5% tracking bonus, wich is not stacking penalized against tracking modules. I'm not a gunnery expert, but isn't tracking a crucial factor, if you fight at blaster ranges ? This make up a lot, depends on how important that is. And finally 5 heavy drones deal quite a bit more dps than 5 mediums. The shield resistance bonus is of course a solid advantage, but a mwd and a web are a must on a blaster ship, and people might like to fit a scrambler and a sensor booster aswell, after that there won't be much tank left on the Rokh. I'd still prefer the Mega for blasters, especially because of the tracking bonus. Since I prefer keeping my fittings for myself I will not go into detail, but will give you some numbers to think about. My Rokh has a scrambler, web and Cap Booster fitted, deals arround 1010 dps and tanks arround 750 dps. Now show me the mega which can beat that (with just t2 mods). edit: also your heavy drones can be killed quite easily and you will then deal arround 500 dps if when you have a decent tank fitted and maybe 700 when you are fitted for gank. If you kill my Rokh¦s med drones i am still at 860 dps while running a quite good tank.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:10:00 - [40] 1 or 2 heavy neuts help, and it isnt that easy to kill heavy drones at close range where he can just recall them. But this kind of paperwar is a bit pointless imo.
Lindsay Logan	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:25:00 - [41] Originally by: Furb Killer 1 or 2 heavy neuts help, and it isnt that easy to kill heavy drones at close range where he can just recall them. But this kind of paperwar is a bit pointless imo. Maby, but it givs a lot of folks a lot of indeas, and that eventually leads to refined and better setups. So its not a totla wast. I would like to see the setup mentioned earlier tho. Otherwise its just random numbers, and for all I know lies.
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:29:00 - [42] Edited by: Mike''s Salesman on 19/09/2008 12:29:28 Originally by: Lindsay Logan Originally by: Furb Killer 1 or 2 heavy neuts help, and it isnt that easy to kill heavy drones at close range where he can just recall them. But this kind of paperwar is a bit pointless imo. Maby, but it givs a lot of folks a lot of indeas, and that eventually leads to refined and better setups. So its not a totla wast. I would like to see the setup mentioned earlier tho. Otherwise its just random numbers, and for all I know lies. Well.. if you believe it or not that is up to you. But i spend a lot of time working out setups and testing them on the battlefield + I am making my ISK from shooting ppl. I have my reasons to keep my setups only to myself. The only ones I share my setups with are my corpm8s. There is no need for me to give any potential target an advice of how to fit his ship :P.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:29:00 - [43] Paper wars work decently when you stay to general situations, not when you start countering specific ships during your paper war. And why dont you give your setup for your rokh then? Or just plug it in eft and check what happens with your tankable dps when you got 1-2 heavy neuts on you.
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 12:35:00 - [44] Originally by: Furb Killer Paper wars work decently when you stay to general situations, not when you start countering specific ships during your paper war. And why dont you give your setup for your rokh then? Or just plug it in eft and check what happens with your tankable dps when you got 1-2 heavy neuts on you. And here you exactly state why i do not need to consider 1-2 heavy neuts on a mega i encounter. Why? because in my whole time in eve i did not see many megas flying arround with a neut fitted. No1 is gonna fly arround with a ship fitted just for a certain situation. When i play at your doorstep there might be a chance that you refit your mega for that situation. If you play at my doorstep i ll just deagress.. dock... swap to my apoc and laugh about your neuts.
Birkinz	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:10:00 - [45] Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 13:10:58 "also your heavy drones can be killed quite easily and you will then deal arround 500 dps when you have a decent tank fitted and maybe 700 when you are fitted for gank. If you kill my Rokh¦s med drones i am still at 860 dps while running a quite good tank." This isn't accurate at all. I fly both ships and it is a simple fact that the Mega outdamages the Rokh with just guns fitted. On just the guns my Mega kicks out more then 1000 dps in a gank fit (3 magstabs, 3% implants).
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:36:00 - [46] Edited by: Mike''s Salesman on 19/09/2008 13:39:26 Originally by: Birkinz Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 13:10:58 "also your heavy drones can be killed quite easily and you will then deal arround 500 dps when you have a decent tank fitted and maybe 700 when you are fitted for gank. If you kill my Rokh¦s med drones i am still at 860 dps while running a quite good tank." This isn't accurate at all. I fly both ships and it is a simple fact that the Mega outdamages the Rokh with just guns fitted. On just the guns my Mega kicks out more then 1000 dps in a gank fit (3 magstabs, 3% implants). k granted. i did not really check the exact amount of dps on the mega on certain fittings. But with 3 magstabs + full rack of neutrans (without implants) you deal turret 935 dps (when you have blaster spec to level 5 which most ppl do not bother to train.. for me every % extra is worth the time but not every1 is thinking like that). Let¦s see what you have left now. Enough PG and CPU to fit 2x1600mm Plate 1xdmg control 1xAdaptive nano Plating. With 3 Trimarks you end up at having 97k EHP. Rokh easily gets the same amount of EHP + active tank @ arround 860 turret dps. Granted that the gank mega deals more damage then i stated 1st but if you let those 2 ships go against each other with those setups the Rokh will still win. edit: just to point it out... i do not want to say the mega sucks. Or that the Rokh will allways win against a mega, but the Rokh definetly is one of the Few battleships which are a threat to a mega 1 on 1.
Yakia TovilToba Halliburton Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:37:00 - [47] Originally by: Birkinz Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 13:10:58 "also your heavy drones can be killed quite easily and you will then deal arround 500 dps when you have a decent tank fitted and maybe 700 when you are fitted for gank. If you kill my Rokh¦s med drones i am still at 860 dps while running a quite good tank." This isn't accurate at all. I fly both ships and it is a simple fact that the Mega outdamages the Rokh with just guns fitted. On just the guns my Mega kicks out more then 1000 dps in a gank fit (3 magstabs, 3% implants). Of course you do more damage with the Mega, because even without drones it has 8,75 effective turrets with the damage bonus, compared to the 8 turrets of the Rokh, a fully gank fitted Mega will always outdamage a Rokh, and even more when you take the drone diffrence into account. In the quoted statement someone compares the ships with diffrent modules. That's not very usefull, with that you can also say a drake deals more damage than a raven, just don't mention that you fit 4 ballistic controls on your ham drake and no ballistic controls on your cruise raven. For a fair comparison of ships the damage related modules, skills and implants must be the same. I'd still like to hear from someone who did the maths on tracking, or have a decent gunnery expirience, how usefull the tracking bonus is at blaster ranges and what role it plays compared to medium range railgun fights. _________ My e-peen
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:44:00 - [48] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Originally by: Birkinz Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 13:10:58 "also your heavy drones can be killed quite easily and you will then deal arround 500 dps when you have a decent tank fitted and maybe 700 when you are fitted for gank. If you kill my Rokh¦s med drones i am still at 860 dps while running a quite good tank." This isn't accurate at all. I fly both ships and it is a simple fact that the Mega outdamages the Rokh with just guns fitted. On just the guns my Mega kicks out more then 1000 dps in a gank fit (3 magstabs, 3% implants). Of course you do more damage with the Mega, because even without drones it has 8,75 effective turrets with the damage bonus, compared to the 8 turrets of the Rokh, a fully gank fitted Mega will always outdamage a Rokh, and even more when you take the drone diffrence into account. In the quoted statement someone compares the ships with diffrent modules. That's not very usefull, with that you can also say a drake deals more damage than a raven, just don't mention that you fit 4 ballistic controls on your ham drake and no ballistic controls on your cruise raven. For a fair comparison of ships the damage related modules, skills and implants must be the same. I'd still like to hear from someone who did the maths on tracking, or have a decent gunnery expirience, how usefull the tracking bonus is at blaster ranges and what role it plays compared to medium range railgun fights. The tracking surely gives you an advantage against any ship that is smaller than a BC. Against BC and bigger it does not really matter.
Hairygoagain	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:49:00 - [49] A Rokh can 'snipe' with Antimatter at 90 Km. :-) Lee
Birkinz	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:11:00 - [50] Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:16:23 Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:11:58 I only quoted you because it is wrong to say the mega would have less damage. The two ships can be set up in very similar ways with the Rokh obviously tending to be tankier and the mega gankier. The Mega can also use slaves and then it is really the ultimate blaster ship with; more ehp then the rokh, bigger drone bay, more damage, better tracking and full tackle (slightly less range, but only slightly due to the tracking). I like the rokh but it is held back slightly by its small dronebay, I never did understand why it didnt get 75m3.
Furb Killer Gallente The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:24:00 - [51] 1 heavy neut on a mega isnt that uncommon btw...
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:33:00 - [52] Originally by: Furb Killer 1 heavy neut on a mega isnt that uncommon btw... just out of curiousity I took a look at my last 15 mega kills. 2 of them head fitted a heavy neut (and no none of them was buzzing arround in a fleet, they were all traveling arround solo through low sec)
Mike's Salesman	Posted - 2008.09.19 16:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Birkinz Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:27:58 Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:16:58 Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:16:23 Edited by: Birkinz on 19/09/2008 16:11:58 I only quoted you because it is wrong to say the mega would have less damage. The two ships can be set up in very similar ways with the Rokh obviously tending to be tankier and the mega gankier. The Mega can also use slaves and then it is really the ultimate blaster ship with; more ehp then the rokh, bigger drone bay, more damage, better tracking and full tackle (slightly less range, but only slightly due to the tracking). I like the rokh but it is held back slightly by its small dronebay, I never did understand why it didnt get 75m3? Also remember that active tanks dont really mix well with MWD and blasters that well. Even with a cap booster. and here we go again.. just to defend your point now we add more stuff to the discussion. Yes you can use slaves.. fine I can use a crystal set on my Rokh... cool eh?... i can also fit an estamels invul field and a gist-x type or pith x-type shield booster + officer damage mods and compare that to a t2 fitted mega. The point is. T2 fitted Rokh > T2 fitted mega (compared 1vs1).. just slightly but thats the way it is. Then again in a fleet yes a mega is more useful because it can run a much better high hp buffer tank. Rokh can scram/web + tank and gank all in one, while mega can only scram/web + tank or gank.. in many situations the gank fitting will still be able to take enough punishment to survive until the target blows up, but against a well fitted high skilled Rokh pilot you will lose.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.09.19 18:00:00 - [54] Originally by: Yakia TovilToba Why does everyone propose to use blasters, the rokh will always be inferiour to a Megathron when using blasters, just think of the Megathron's damage and tracking bonus and the larger drone bay, which allows to use heavy drones. If i'd ever use a Rokh that would be a sniper Rokh with 3-4 mag. field stabs, 2 sensor boosters with target range skripts, and 8x 425mm rails with spike ammo. That's what the ship is made for imo, and not close combat. It isnt inferior, it has a better tank while putting out good DPS. 1v1 vs megas, I win every time.
Greckor Monmouth THE FINAL STAND	Posted - 2008.09.19 18:05:00 - [55] BTW here is my setup, I will be trying to get that duel going, but i havent been able to play much lately so I might just have to ask that it is on the test server to save time. Rokh- 8neutron 2's XL SB 2, Invul 2, SBA 2, web, point, heavy injector 2(or electrochem works fine) MFS 24, DC2 Rigs- em/kin/therm shield resist rigs Drones-whatever you feel like.

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