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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 7 post(s) |
Gabrielle Rammaninov
Gladius Veritatis
Fidelas Constans
0
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Posted - 2012.04.06 10:38:00 -
[151] - Quote
YaSiS wrote:DX 11 Tesselation in eve online ? HELL YEA !! now i can finnaly heat up my radeon 6970 and let him do his job 
This ^
You can drag the slider to 0 on the tesselation option and get almost to performance issue at all.
so HELL YEAH it's so awsome ! |
Marsan
Production N Destruction INC.
18
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Posted - 2012.04.08 20:59:00 -
[152] - Quote
It looks nice but it's pointless. Fix some instead of wasting time on something 95% don't have system able to use. Come on when was the last time most of were in a fight and had our graphics settings high? And even them most of us were zoomed out all the way. |
Cadinie
The Maverick Navy
Against ALL Authorities
1
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Posted - 2012.04.08 23:11:00 -
[153] - Quote
Alright, lets add a bit of tech truth into the mix here so we can hopefully clear up some of the hopes and dreams of you, the player.
First off, tessellation and the the accompanied physics demo are NOT CONNECTED DIRECTLY. Tessellation alone can only complicate already existing geometry and shadow maps/such . What you saw with advanced physics (asteroids breaking apart once hitting the ship) was actually a part of the physx engine. Physx is a proprietary physics engine that can be used to do the things that you saw, and do them quite well with any modern graphics card! Most modern FPS use physx, and physx optimization is built into all new nvidia GPUs (I don't know about AMD, they are not worth mentioning to begin with anyway).
Now then, on to the dreamsmashing. PhysX is a CLIENT SIDE ENGINE. The kinds of breakage of asteroids and advanced physics effects you saw are locally calculated and rendered. What this means is that you will not see exactly the same thing that everyone else sees in the same area. Lets take for example what it would be like otherwise. If the EVE servers were to do all the physics calculations, the servers would have to take into account each collision from every ship with every physics enabled object. At that point, it would have to calculate how the object would break, the velocity and trajectory of every piece, and NOT ONLY THAT but it would also need to send this information to every single person on grid (or more). You may think "ohh, that's not too bad!" But if you remember that EVERY collision would be done this way, you start to get the picture of how many calculations would need to be done.
Now then. Calculations of the physics is only a small part. Theoretically if CCP had beefy enough servers, they could do it, but that is never, and can not happen for years to come. The REAL issue is that sending the data for all of these calculations would send the bandwidth requirements through the roof, and not to mention things would STILL NOT BE SYNCHRONIZED between players due to latency variations.
Basically what you guys have been assuming is that the EVE server would be doing the physics calculations for small objects and explosions, this is wrong. Server side physics is kept to the minimal needed like ship movement, and all of the other critical things that actually effect game play.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If PhysX capabilities were ever included into EVE, all of those little asteroids you see banging around and breaking up would look quite beautiful. And all of those detailed explosions of titans and battleships would also be beautiful. However, all of this would be calculated on the CLIENT SIDE (meaning on your computer) and rendered locally also. So even when everyone warps into a asteroid field, the server sends them the SAME asteroid locations, after a while, everyone will end up with a significantly different looking asteroid field due to the random nature of the physics environment.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Now on to tessellation. Tessellation is a glorious idea, and if CCP was twice it's size and sustainable in funding it's teams (not having to fire half the company due to lacking of funds :P) then I would say YES! Make tessellation possible. However, CCP has limited resources and they have to efficiently use those resources (teams) more efficiently than most companies. Because of this, Tessellation WOULD cut into other graphics related fixes such as updating the rest of the ships to V3 (this is just an example. They would probably have to be upgraded to V3 to even work with tess).
On top of that, Tessellation would make things look better, but it would also be unrealistic for large scale combat. The amount of processing power required would be like going from the old shader engine to the new, on top of adding a bit more complex geometry. This feature WOULD NOT need to be turned on, and you COULD run in the older (current) V3 system. This means that the only downfall to tess, would be the time spent building it instead of building something else
TL;DR
Physics shown in the video is actually a physics engine called PhysX (PhysX wiki link). Anything you would see like a field of colliding asteroids would look different for each person after a few seconds.
Tessellation is a great technology. It could make everything look better, and would not FORCE everyone to upgrade because it could be left off if needed. DOWN SIDE: Tessellation would detract CCP's already valuable graphical team resources from other things they could be improving, like adding new incursion content, adding new ships, adding new stations/props for missions, changing the POS system to look more modern. |
abelownesu
Viziam
Amarr Empire
0
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Posted - 2012.04.09 16:45:00 -
[154] - Quote
Idk if this was mentioned already, But PhysX does not require a nvidia card. Nvidia also puts out PhysX software. obviously it wont be as fast as hardware based PhysX, If CCP plans on going this route. Everyone that plays the game will either have to have the software installed or a nvidia card. no way around it. |
Fassin Taak
Rave Technologies Inc.
C0VEN
0
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Posted - 2012.04.09 16:56:00 -
[155] - Quote
No idea whether this would at all be technically possible, but introducing line-of-sight would be the single best thing that could happen to this game, period. And it would of course totally change how space battles are fought; frankly speaking, I cannot think of a downside - the opportunities for new excitement in space seems almost endless. Please dear devs, just tell us if this could theoretically be introduced? Just in theory, no promises asked for? Pleaaaase?  |
Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.04.10 06:59:00 -
[156] - Quote
Line of Sight would give rise to cheesy tactics such as small ships hiding behind larger neutrals and popping up to take a shot then ducking down again with no scope for retaliation. Pop up, take a shot at a target, take a hit, duck down and regen shields. Hmm... reckon that wouldn't be exploited?
In addition we would have to change to a "direct flight" control model which would require a rewrite of the game, missions and more. |
Fairhand
Aliastra
Gallente Federation
13
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Posted - 2012.04.10 07:01:00 -
[157] - Quote
I saw in the video that the nVidia 560 was stated as the most common card used in Eve at the moment. I'd like to see a breakdown of that information because as far as I can see, laptops seem pretty common amongst those I chat to and they certainly can't field that kind of hardware. |
Daeva Teresa
Viziam
Amarr Empire
54
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Posted - 2012.04.10 12:54:00 -
[158] - Quote
Most common card used in EvE means probably something like 10%. You know how many types of graphics cards are out there.
I dont think, that we will see any form of real physics in EvE any time soon, but we definitelly may see teselation. Its actually not that hard to implement. You just needs a teselation maps for the ships. Also I am absolutely sure that teselation details will be based on distance from the camera and also on the slider in settings, maybe even on the number of objects on the scene so it will not be anything like "huge graphical lags for everyone".
CCP really please dont use Upgraded, Limited, Experimental-áand Prototype in item names. It sounds like the item is actually worse than basic meta 1 item. Use Calibrated, Enhanced, Optimized and Upgraded. Its really easy to understand that the item is better than meta 1 and its also in alphabetic order. |
Danial Korakov
Tactical Operations Fleet Delta
Tactical Operation Fleet Delta
0
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Posted - 2012.04.12 22:58:00 -
[159] - Quote
I say do it. shouldn't have to wait months/ years just to see one ship overhauled. |
Mars Theran
EVE Rogues
EVE Rogues Alliance
122
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Posted - 2012.04.13 16:54:00 -
[160] - Quote
Just want to point out that Havok can be used to simulate the Physics portion of the equation for ATi card users. It's software based and ups CPU usage, but still has the capability to provide this sort of feature. There is no reason that EVE couldn't have the capability of doing both based on a user selection method dependent on hardware installed.
A bit more work perhaps, but it wouldn't leave the ATi card users out and it's all client-side in the end anyway. Nvidia PhysX just does it better in my opinion but that's only really an option if you use Nvidia.
Aside from that, there are options to support both Nvidia and ATi GPUs on the same PC and have them working in tandem just as if they were in SLI or Crossfire though as I recall not as well as either platform independently. PhysX technically only needs one dedicated GPU for that purpose, partially independent of the primary GPU configuration.
Getting a DirectX 11 GPU with PhysX support and higher bandwidth and capability than older more expensive GPUs is not really an issue either for most people. Technically speaking you can likely outperform an older 8800 with something that now comes in as an entry level GPU from Nvidia.
The problem is more in line with whether your computer can support it or not, rather than the cost and replacement of the individual part.
TIIP: The Incredible Invisible Poster |
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