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Imhotep Khem
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Posted - 2004.06.18 01:52:00 -
[31]
 Originally by: Marcus Grisbius
It takes a little math but it's not too complicated.
Not sure about that math.
Max angular velocity = .006 radians/s
distance = 30000m
circumference = 2pi*r = 2*3.14*30,000 = 188,400 m
2*pi radians in a complete revolution
.006 radians/s / 2*pi(rad/rev)= .000955 revolutions / s
speed@distance = .000955 rev/s * 188,400m/rev = 180m/s
arrrgh 
The math don't lie...
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If your not dyin' your not tryin'. |
dj lightning
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Posted - 2004.06.18 04:31:00 -
[32]
all i have to say is ccp need to sort out this gun thing they say adapt y should we us players pay to play and have fun ok bs not to hit frigs but crus something has to be done about it what do u lot think
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Chepe Nolon
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Posted - 2004.06.18 06:48:00 -
[33]
I think the hit chances below optimal should be tweaked abit. But else, after experimenting and testing the theories, I'm starting to like the changes. Before, flying a bs was a no-brainer. Now, you have to really fly the ship and choose weapons for the mission. You can't just fire away. You have to get to optimal range, wait until the ship's speed is below a certain point, and control the hits and scanner all time to be sure you have optimal conditions for your turrets. I had no problem yesterday hitting both cruisers and frigates with my 425mm's. That was between 45 and 60km range, and they dealt good damage. And that was without using the tracking computer. Only using a tracker enhancher II, the mega tracking bonus and the motion pred. skill. Total maybe 40% better tracking.
The blastertron is really difficult to fly properly now against smaller ships, having a short interval between optimal and falloff. A pity since I like fighting that way. Now it's much easier fighting long range.
Battleships have got to the point they should: It takes skills ingame and from the player to be deadly in one. If you only hit thin air, get a frigate or interceptor. Or fit smaller guns on your bs.  I tried 7 assorted heavy blasters (stock) on my mega yesterday, and it worked as a dream vs cruisers and frigates. Until the specialized ships comes into game in Shiva, we have to live with non-optimal weaponry on our ships, and using a lot of damage modifiers and tracking mods.
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Darlan Flame
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Posted - 2004.06.18 07:07:00 -
[34]
I'll be happy if someone from the inside can answer just one question. Are the new range formulas an overlooked bug, or is this how range should work from here on?
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Bozse
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Posted - 2004.06.18 08:13:00 -
[35]
Edited by: Bozse on 18/06/2004 08:15:56
Edited by: Bozse on 18/06/2004 08:15:11
Well something is bugged , a corp mate got shot down @ 60k by a guy with blasters......
I'd like to see someone give a good mathematical explenation on that.
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Hawk Firestorm
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Posted - 2004.06.18 13:24:00 -
[36]
Personally have done alot of huntin with the 425's on a mega using exclusively thorium and am.
Below 25k nothing hits, no matter wht ammo.
However at long ranges over 40k I hit quite well mainly light hits with am/thor in fact 90% of them are.
In the 40-30k range AM is just lethal, but the margin where you can actually use it is very tight indeed.
But yes there's something very wrong with ALL weps not just 425's.
I have a friend that swears by neutrons with am at 56k.! ROFL
Overall it's been a monumental goof.
But the main question is why this occurs everytime there's any serious balancing.
And frankly as far as I'm concerned it's lies in 2 main areas, firstly the fitting system is too simplistic, so changing anything or adding any new item is like parting the red sea everytime, rather than balancing individual ships that have clear roles and their own module sets to suit.
And secondly no proper testing was conducted on this patch before it went live, entropy was down as was chaos long before this went in.
Which begs another question after such a major change in their network which admin was drunk enough to think that patching at such a juncture was a smart idea? 
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:07:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Johnson McCrae on 18/06/2004 14:09:43
Me and my Mega with 425's with AM can hit anything from 55k to falloff of 26k. Most times the rat is coming straight at me and im not moving at all, which may be whats helping.
PS. Your movement is added to the transvers velocity.
It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.18 15:40:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Rthor on 18/06/2004 15:46:16
Sorry to be anti-intellectual in this thread but regardless of transwhatever velocities if I cannot hit anything at "optimal" range but can hit everything at double the optimal range then we probably would disagree on what the word optimal means,and I would be right.
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Harisdrop
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Posted - 2004.06.18 17:28:00 -
[39]
This is a very strange reasoning why you should or should not hit a target. I see it as this. Its a change and now you have to adapt. The devs have been working on this for months. Since they placed itin patch its there forever. What you knew then is now not now. What your reality now is, what you have to adpat too.
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Garsh ma it soo cool killing people in there space thingies |
Plaeto
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Posted - 2004.06.18 18:08:00 -
[40]
According to my calculations, this then will make several varieties of ammunition nearly obsolete, or at the least, so niche that there will be no widespread production.
Lead L for example, will put a stock 425mm's optimal at ~66km, with moderate gunnery skills. A 425mm Proto using Lead L has an optimal range beyond the targetting range of an un-augmented Megathron, and the mid-point of Falloff is ~98km.
Long range sniping has its place, but...
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Rthor
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Posted - 2004.06.18 21:02:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Harisdrop
I see it as this. Its a change and now you have to adapt. What you knew then is now not now. What your reality now is, what you have to adpat too.
I have noticed two things. In addition to optimal range being FUBAR your damage is, I am almost sure, lower even if you are hitting at optimal plus falloff. Now you can say this is a change and stuff to which we should adapt. But I think that the most likely explanation when you take these two things into consideration (not being able to hit at optimal PLUS lower damage on hits beyond ) is that this is FUBAR and an unintended change. I am not complainig or whining. Honestly I dont care if I cant hit someone then that someone cant hit me. I think that the point is that a lot of people have instict based on shooting for a long time that something seems very wrong. There is just something that seems wrong about not being able to hit anything at optimal range and only being able to hit something at optimal plus fallout BUT ONLY for a fraction of max possible damage. It just seems to me that there is a major tracking issue until your target gets so far away from you that tracking does not matter, but at that range your damage is also a fraction of what it would be at optimal had you been able to hit something at optimal.
Now, I dont have any hard evidence other than instinct from experience that the damage is lower, it just feels that way. So if I am off on that then OK. If the devs meant to do this then its OK too. I will adapt, no problem. In fact if these tracking penalties were possible to overcome with skills and/or loadouts that would be just perfect because that means that I could outfit to hit something at a range at which I could not be hit by another ship unless they have the same exact loadout as I do.
I just have a feeling that this was not intended. If it was intended then I would probably stick to medium guns or missiles on a BS but then your BS bonuses are useless or long range ammo is not needed, none of which eventualities I think were intented.
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Abstract
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Posted - 2004.06.19 00:19:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Abstract on 19/06/2004 04:01:34
Edited by: Abstract on 19/06/2004 04:00:09
Edited by: Abstract on 19/06/2004 00:25:55
The math is broken in alot of places, people who post about the details of the math in point based RPG's without seeing the source code are taking a huge risk...which I am going to do heh: the gun math is special cased all to hell trying to reverse eng. it and say this is not a bug and just math is not something that I think can be accurate.
I know at 1K range i can't hit a rat with a neutron gun, even a small one, and at max range I am getting perfect hits.
But also the math is broken all over, its not just guns.
Someone got let lose into the code base and broke a ton of calculations...
I think the conversation went something like this:
Guru type who wrote the origional code: "I am busy with Shiva, you make the changes..."
Jr programmer who came in because of the expansion: "Ok how do I make the changes..."
Guru: "Well, u just blaaa blaaa blaaa ....." "do u understand? and remember I am judging u, this is an elite position, don't u dare admit u don't understand my personal jargon and obscure referances..."
Jr Programmer: "Sure, I got it, np..."
Jr Programmer over a beer to friends: "This rats nest of math code is a hard coded uncommented nitemare and every time I try to talk to the Guru about it he shouts at me about shiva and priorities, also he needs to take shower" "I am worried I will lose this job, I can't understand any of this code..."
Jr Programmers more experinced friend: "Just fake it and take the money...hard code some more values and stuff and just get it out the door.."
Jr Programmer sips his beer, "Ya, its damm good money heh."
Abs.
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mOULf
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Posted - 2004.06.19 03:49:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Rthor
There is just something that seems wrong about not being able to hit anything at optimal range and only being able to hit something at optimal plus fallout BUT ONLY for a fraction of max possible damage
Maybe the optimal+fall off strange thing is coupled with the radial velocity strange thing
Nevertherless, maybe we don't understand at all what are the new changes in damage math calculation 
i'd just like an official response from CCP. It would save us some time and mind storming.
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Kalilo
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Posted - 2004.06.19 05:19:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Kalilo on 19/06/2004 05:26:03
I dont care what guns you are using if the target be a fly and it is not moving in any direction it should be a perfect strike at the range your guns are intended to hit at. Even if it,s closer or further out if it,s not moving and your not moving,it should be a pefect strike. what this current code basically has done is if I had a tank then aimed my turret at a house that was 10 yards away I will miss nomatter what However if the house is 50 yards away. I will hit the house.
Now does this make any sense???
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