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Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 19:55:00 - [1] This first post will simply be the index and update page for this bond. The index will be edited for linkage as sections come online. 1 - Introduction 2 - Details 3 - Auditors Report 4 - References (Sublinks of course) 5 - Clauses 6 - Investor Listing 7 - Errata & Changes (Again Sublinks) {Several posts to follow as the board allows.}
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.09.16 19:57:00 - [2] Rogue interrupt. Reservation pending audit, etc. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 19:59:00 - [3] Introduction Firstly let me state that I did intend to get all detailed and wordy for this however I realized that, well, I'm not interested in doing that nor do I think any of you are. This is not to say that doing a bond or ipo is about not caring to do something but over time all the expected standards have created a legalese type environment. A place where clauses and sub paragraphs more define an offering then the offering itself. So, as in the past, when I think it is time I just try to lead by example. Mind you this is not a social project of mine, there is a real purpose and goal for this bond. But in equal measure it is also about how one should do things, about what is good way of running affairs, about leading from in front instead of being a r.e.m.f.. I do not plan to redefine profit sharing or interest rates here but mostly about the importance of plain speech. So I'm going to be blunt, going to list what is what and what is not. Anything that I seem to have missed or you feel was not sufficiently clear please feel free to ask for more information. Some questions will not be answered no matter what but I'll specific those areas clearly. Shall we begin? Who Am I (If you can't be bothered, freely skip this part.) I am a beta player. I have, in my time, been; in TTI and the first Venal conflicts; been a reporter and later editor/operator of the old news site Eve Guardian; issuer of several repaid bonds and one completed (but underperformed) IPO; emeritus member of the eBank Board of Directors (proudly so even if I troll them sometimes); friend and battle mate of Celestial Apocalypse during last year's Insurgency; long time and respected member of these boards who has also earned the occasional week to 90 day ban; and (most importantly) ***** that simply speaks what I know as truth even if it means admitting I'm wrong or an ***. Impressive yes? I like to think so though I rarely toss in people's faces. Most of what I believe, which is a large part of who I am, that a person's value is not only determined by the accolades or kudos of yesterday. That true self worth requires a reinvestment internally as well as the reaping of one's just rewards. I believe reinvention is the only way to keep oneself sharp, motivated, and challenged. It is my own personal motto, it is also the motto by which my corp mates function, and I think it is the surest way to avoid burnout in life and in Eve. Why Should I Trust You?** I always answer this question with, Don't. I'm not going to feel comfortable getting into a relationship with someone who has not done some level of research. I want no lemmings at my feet or on my coattails. One of my key methods of avoiding stress is to make sure that there are no lemmings vested in me. I don't need people who don't get it whining up my arse with nonsensicals when my time could be, and is, better spent elsewhere focused on business, not coddling. So if you can't handle having someone possibly calling you a moron, don't invest here please.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:03:00 - [4] Details: Part 1 Total Bond Amount: 6 - 12 Billion Bond Value: 500M each The reason for the variance? Mostly based around the fact that I can comfortably absorb 12 billion to effect my intended goals. However I am not inclined to linger around waiting to see if I can raise the maximum amount at this time. If I raise less, so be it. Interest Rate: 2% preferred, 4% maximum It goes without saying that I would prefer to finance this bond with as low an interest as possible. I understand that you are going to want as high as possible. So I'm going to do a dutch auction for each bond of the entire issue. Bidding will start at 4.00% and bid increments is -0.1%. 2% interest rate is a buy out position. Overall bond interest rate will be an average of the final bids on bonds. If five sell at 2%, and 10 sell at 3%, the interest rate of the issuance will be 2.66% for all involved parties. Also this will be, like all of my other previous ventures, a manually administered bond. I still find that there are many failings to the Eve share system and until such a time there are better financial documents/mechanisms I won't, myself, ever use Eve shares as financial tools. Before we get into any complaints or disparagement about the low ball interest rate let me clarify something, this is low risk. I can not think of anything more low risk than this. Of course I'm saying that and I could be very biased. I'm sure we'll agree on that in general without having to get specific. That being said, I won't mind if you post "too low interest for me". (Not that I could stop you but I'm just saying no feelings either way if you do or don't.) The Plan: Withheld Speculate all you wish but if you do your research I am consistent with the fact that I do not specifically discuss the purpose of any bond I issue. Withholding this information is, as always, as much personal choice & style as it is in my opinion prudent. My plans are not totally subject to interuption, not very much at all, however I prefer not to tempt fate, or other Eve players, as well. However with this in mind I've decided to take some additional precautions and a few extra steps to reassure people that I'm not cashing in on my reputation or have suddenly decided I want to buy a carrier pilot & industrial toon to satisfy some dream. Several clauses are going to cited and institued to address a few areas I feel of important, an auditor has already been at work looking at both of my accounts, and I've made sure that my corp mates are upto speed in case of any sudden absence. In fact, I've been so detailed that even if there should be a sudden absence matters can continue unabated. Scheduling All things being equal all bond repayments will be on, or before, the 15th of each month. All payments will be one month in advance as well. There are no reports expected to be issued, no need for e-peen spamming, however every 3rd month a report will be issued and the continuation status of the bond will be up for deliberation by involved parties. Buybacks & Secondary Market Buybacks will be offerred at every 90 day cycle. There is no secondary market, period. Anyone wishing to cash out will contact me, prior to the 90 day mark, and their buyout will be listed in the 90 day report. Anyone else wishing to pick up those bonds at that time may do so from the reservation list that will hopefully form. Let me reiterate, strongly, there will be no transering of bonds. Only the person I agree to do business with will be the owner of the bond and recipient of any funds whatsoever. (If someone gets jammed up - tough crap mate.)
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:06:00 - [5] Tempted, but my investors wanna know what they're isk would be used for.. if even only hinted at
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:06:00 - [6] Details: Part 2 Acceptable Parties & Bids No one person may own more than two (2) five hundred million (500,000,000) bonds. Period. To ensure this is so I'm invoking the Ricdic Clause here: No bid is considered valid until I have approved of that person. Do not waste my time with alts or total unknowns. If your toon has been sold and the name is anywhere, go to hell for all I care. If you think that I would have a personal objection to being in your presence, then you can rest assured I don't want your isk either. So please, do not make me embarrass you (though I'll try my damnedest) by bidding when your dumb ass know you should not. (I called it the Ricdic Clause in humor of Ric's habit of alt bidding too many shares, no other reason.) In regards to publishing an investor's list I am going to go with this. There will be no anonymous or silent investors. A list of all investors will be maintained including the amount of their investment. Other Loan Mechanisms Since this is a valid question I thought I'd answer: BMBE is apparently not an option though I did try exploring it. eBank is an option that I would find to create some conflicts of interest. Out of respect ot them (good feelings and bad history both) I simply have not decided to go this route. In either case neither would be an ideal solution for my own purposes nor do I think it would benefit you, my future investor, either. (Refer back to I know it's a low rate, get over it.) Collateral & Audit The purpose of the API audit is two fold. Firstly it is to adhere to a commonly accepted standard of conduct that I myself encourage. Secondly, it is to confirm that I have readily liquidatable assets in the case some form of disaster strikes. The choice to not offer up collateral is essentially to the choice to keep productive assets productive for my, and this bonds, purposes instead of someone else's benefit & interest payments. Just does not seem like a smart move to me. I'm not going to comment on what Kazuo is going to report however safe to say that there are plenty of bpos involved and that they are easily liquidatable (if in excess of the bond), that they are locked down, and that I have control of lock down with alternates who can monitor the status (or change it if absolutely necessary) of all locked down bpos. This is also just in the way of blueprint assets. I also have good quantities of speculation products. Essentially, I could sell a crap load of stuff to make this possible however I might take some losses doing so thereby negating any gain I would see. One point of fact, Kazuo and I only discussed reparation for his services briefly and mostly in passing. In his opinion this project is not worth his investment though if I offered him a discount it may become attractive to him. My solution is thus: I know in my head how much of a discount I'll give, he does not. So if he invests I'll disclose that at the time of investment, if not, he's still pretty much unrewarded and out of any conflict of interest zone. References I'm not listing any references though I did place a spot for references in the index. I suspect that I'll have a list of good, and bad, references spontaneously appearing. When those appear I will simply link to those unsolicited (and perhaps unappreciated) comments.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:10:00 - [7] Clauses Ricdic Clause: No alt usage to attempt to purchase more stocks/bonds than is permitted by the issuer. Cosmoray Clause: Specify specific time frames/milestones for investor/public discussion and review. Taikun Clause: Health issues. I'm off chemo and was certified cancer free about a month ago. This being my second battle with it health could come up as an issue in the future. The HBB clause will also cover any sudden hospitalizations. Hit By Bus Clause (HBB): In the case that I should be hit by a bus or suffer some other form of unfortunate event the prevents this project from continuing in good faith Athre shall be considered the point of contact and executor of fund. This does not preclude the fund continuing or shutting down however it does specify who is next. (My wife is not, nor ever will be, willing to bother with Eve enough to handle this: She thinks we're all nuts anyway.) {This section is as much informational as it is humor.}
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:13:00 - [8] Your reporting of my well timed initial post is deemed unacceptable. I therefore won't be investing. It has nothing to do with the low interest rate or ridiculous stipulations. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:17:00 - [9] TL:DR Dutch Auction Amount: 500M Available Bonds: 24 Start Bid: 4%/month Buy Out: 2%/month Final interest rate will be determined from the average of all bids. No bid as good until I say accepted. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:23:00 - [10] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Tempted, but my investors wanna know what they're isk would be used for.. if even only hinted at Understandable. Of course this is the idea behind going bond/cd instead of IPO. I'm open to many disclosures however the actual activity I'm keeping close to me chest. Originally by: Ray McCormack Your reporting of my well timed initial post is deemed unacceptable. I therefore won't be investing. It has nothing to do with the low interest rate or ridiculous stipulations. Actually I regret it as I realized that interruptions were unimportant with the format I'm using. But your disinterest is noted. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:43:00 - [11] I will bid for two bonds at 4% interest.
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.16 20:49:00 - [12] 1-Are you going to manually pay out interest instead of using the share dividend mechanic? If not, how will you enforce reselling? 2-Why are you using average bid to determine the interest rate? You do realize you might get some people pulling out because of that after the fact - if the interest rate they get is significantly lower than what they bid. 3-You say this project has a real actual purpose, but you're a trader who has been around since beta. Seriously, why the hassle to get just an extra 12bil? 4-Why do you care who buys your bond? You can block them if they bug you ingame.
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:01:00 - [13] Edited by: Ambo on 16/09/2008 21:02:27 couple of points come to mind: 1) 2-4%!? um... no thanks. I'm sure you'll get plenty of takers though. People always seem happy with (what I would consider) a stupidly low rate of return these days. You say there is virtually no risk and while that may be true of your business plan, that is not true of investing in you. See Fury Bank, Ionia, etc. 2) I want to know at least an outline of what your plan is if I'm going to be giving you money with no collateral. You being well known does not alter this. 3) Perhaps I'm missing somthing here but BMBE's loan is 2% per week interest, that would be costing you 8%+ per month. I'm not sure of Ebank's rates but I believe they are generally in the 10%+ per month range? So you're happy to give them (or BMBE at least) that much per month but not public investors? seems... wierd, that's all. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Vitamin Deficiency	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:03:00 - [14] Edited by: Vitamin Deficiency on 16/09/2008 21:03:22 Originally by: Khrillian 1-Are you going to manually pay out interest instead of using the share dividend mechanic? If not, how will you enforce reselling? 2-Why are you using average bid to determine the interest rate? You do realize you might get some people pulling out because of that after the fact - if the interest rate they get is significantly lower than what they bid. 3-You say this project has a real actual purpose, but you're a trader who has been around since beta. Seriously, why the hassle to get just an extra 12bil? 4-Why do you care who buys your bond? You can block them if they bug you ingame. I believe Shar has largely already addressed these points. Shar is manually paying dividends. The average price simplifies the payment and prevents a heinously complex bidding system. I'd like to assume Shar understands that people may pull out of an auction on a web forum. Shar is a smart enough trader to have most of his capital invested. Shar is an elitest ******* and enjoys exerting control over bonds, and additionally does not want to run this CD as an investment for EBANK. I gathered all of this from the original post. Reading comprehension is win.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:11:00 - [15] Originally by: Khrillian 1-Are you going to manually pay out interest instead of using the share dividend mechanic? If not, how will you enforce reselling? Covered in the detailing but this is manual. Originally by: Khrillian 2-Why are you using average bid to determine the interest rate? You do realize you might get some people pulling out because of that after the fact - if the interest rate they get is significantly lower than what they bid. That is a common risk of Dutch auctions. Not an unusual circumstance. Anyone that backs out over such is not worth doing business with. Originally by: Khrillian 3-You say this project has a real actual purpose, but you're a trader who has been around since beta. Seriously, why the hassle to get just an extra 12bil? Hassle? This isn't hassle at all. Of course this ipo serves several purposes besides itself. Lets see: - E peen: I get the chance to show people I know what I'm doing and that I can do it. - Leading: I get to help show people how it is done. While they may not be able to work as blithely with certain issues as I do here I'm demonstrating a well thought out prospectus. Originally by: Khrillian 4-Why do you care who buys your bond? You can block them if they bug you ingame. Oh it is not in game activities that bother me. Any serious haters/annoyances don't get blocked, the get war dec'd. But my reason here is that, as I listed in the details, I prefer who I deal with and I'm also keeping the individual limit as a hard limit. It won't be perfect of course but no harm in trying. (A fine example: I wouldn't accept investment from Riethe.) Originally by: Enihcam Xes I will bid for two bonds at 4% interest. Bid with your main and your bid will be acceptable. (You are obviously a research alt mate.) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:12:00 - [16] Originally by: Ambo 3) Perhaps I'm missing somthing here but BMBE's loan is 2% per week interest, that would be costing you 8%+ per month. I'm not sure of Ebank's rates but I believe they are generally in the 10%+ per month range? So you're happy to give them (or BMBE at least) that much per month but not public investors? seems... wierd, that's all. I'll ignore your other comments as I think they are either hostile or uniformed. Other involved parties have, as of yet, shown up to confirm various securities/collaterals/audit so jumping into those issues is a bit... premature. (Even getting drawn into your debate is premature at this point) However on this issue: If you read you would see that I choose not to entertain BMBE or eBank rates. I review them as possibilities, yes. It is one of the things I commonly suggest to people before they go public. So, of course I looked at that option. So, while you may feel a bit of hostility over the rate (your prerogative) trying to find fire where there is no smoke is a bit over the top. Oh and let me say this: I'm not going to get dragged into discussing Fury/Feronia. I've never acted like them, I do provide sufficient accountability and transparency where prudent, and I'm not asking for all that much. There is only one person's cross I carry, no one else's. (Besides Ambo, when you go on in someone's ipo thread about "who are you" are you saying that reputation matters not at all?) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:15:00 - [17] Reserving 500m at 4% pending audit
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:16:00 - [18] Originally by: Vitamin Deficiency Shar is an ~~elitest~~ ******* I agree with half of this statement. I do not think I'm elitist. While the more dramatic confrontations draw more attention there are many who I have assisted, without any personal gain, to achieve their goals. I've never violated a trust, never failed a payment, never broken my word either. Just because something appears one way on the forums does not necessarily make it true. If elitism is to try to keep certain standards as standards, then perhaps I am elitist. I'll have to seek guidance on this. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:17:00 - [19] Originally by: Jaeger Orlofsson Reserving 500m at 4% pending audit I know who you are (& your alt! ) and I'm happy to accept your bid. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:31:00 - [20] Confirming I will back up the bond repayment if HBB is enacted.

jna Caldari Black Ash Enterprises	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:36:00 - [21] Edited by: jna on 16/09/2008 21:41:14 Bidding for 2 bonds at 4%, thanks. EDIT: btw, I might be blind, but don't see a close date for the auction...? ------------------------------------------------- Caeleste naves interretis res gravissimas sunt
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.16 21:37:00 - [22] All the bases I care about in a bond covered.(Damm you, could of at least given me something to roast you with for the ***** of it) That said, to low even at 4% for me to bother with. Good luck, im sure there will be plenty of others who will gobble it up in due course. --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 22:12:00 - [23] Originally by: jna EDIT: btw, I might be blind, but don't see a close date for the auction...? See Tree, there was something missed. End Date of Auction: 22-Sep-2008, DT. As each 90 cycle comes to a close any newly available, or remaining, bonds will go up for auction again. This will of course effect the overall interest rate at that time.
Leaf Blossom	Posted - 2008.09.16 22:47:00 - [24] 2 bonds @ 4%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.16 22:50:00 - [25] Originally by: Leaf Blossom 2 bonds @ 4% Sorry, no alt bids allowed. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:06:00 - [26] I can confirm that Shar, through his majority holding in his corp, has control of a collection of locked-down BPOs of a comparable value to the total proposed CD issue. I verified this through the loan of a share, to make sure that I wasn't looking at BPCs. In the event of the HBB scenario, there are 5 people with 1 share each, including Athre, who can vote to unlock the BPOs as long as at least one of them is a director. They cannot remove the BPOs on their own as long as Shar is still around. I am unable to offer any assessment of the level of risk involved in this investment, as no details of any of Shar's plans have been disclosed to me. He's certainly capable of making the promised returns, but he considers it prudent to tell no-one, not even a single auditor, in strict confidence, how he intends to do so. I would not encourage anyone seeking public investment to maintain such complete silence. While it could be argued that statements of future intent cannot be proven true in any way that will protect investors, it's a lot easier for swindlers to dodge all questioning than it is for them to submit a detailed plan to the scrutiny of a trusted third party. Historically, this has proven to be a fruitful strategy for them. It is not in the community's interest to tolerate it. If anyone else was asking for funding on these terms, they'd be sent packing, probably by Shar himself. In fact, this actually happened quite recently. The only reason I'd have for investing would be to find out what he considers a reasonable discount. ----- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Nomad JF for sale
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:11:00 - [27] Edited by: MilowFV on 16/09/2008 23:12:31 I would like 1 bond at 4 percent at this time (500 million isk). Also, if at a later date I want to add a 2nd bond should I make a new post for it?
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:12:00 - [28] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro In the event of the HBB scenario, there are 5 people with 1 share each, including Athre, who can vote to unlock the BPOs as long as at least one of them is a director. They cannot remove the BPOs on their own as long as Shar is still around. /has director level access.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:28:00 - [29] Cool a new bond. Sadly it's below EBANK's minimum investing level so we will have to pass. If Shar had chosen the loan option through EBANK he would be getting approximately a 6-7% interest rate. It makes sense he runs a bond here for a cheaper 'loan', he has the reputation to pull it off. I think there is very little risk of loss and I wouldn't hesitate to buy up as much as I could whilst bypassing the Ricdic Clause (4tw btw) if the interest rate was higher. Good luck with the bond Shar
Leon Angeal	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:40:00 - [30] I'll take 1 bond at 4%. No I am not an alt, long time lurker of MD forums first time poster ;).

Rho'varo Minmatar Diversified Operational Services	Posted - 2008.09.16 23:55:00 - [31] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Khrillian 2-Why are you using average bid to determine the interest rate? You do realize you might get some people pulling out because of that after the fact - if the interest rate they get is significantly lower than what they bid. That is a common risk of Dutch auctions. Not an unusual circumstance. Anyone that backs out over such is not worth doing business with. I agree that anyone who backs out of a bid for a known amount (or rate or risk) is a sub-optimal business partner, and it is true that in any auction without payment up front (Dutch or otherwise), there is a possibility of nominally winning parties failing to pay. However, as identified by Khrillian, this enterprise's use of the average interest rate introduces a problem that is atypical of auctions (Dutch or otherwise). In a regular auction, the winning bidder is expected to pay only what he or she has bid. Similarly, in a typical Dutch auction, the winners all participate on terms at or better than those they themselves bid. Here, a "winner" in the auction may end up "winning" terms that are worse than they themselves tendered. This may make some more reluctant to bid in the first place (e.g., me) and may induce others to back out after winning terms they would not have tendered.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:31:00 - [32] Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro He's certainly capable of making the promised returns, but he considers it prudent to tell no-one, not even a single auditor, in strict confidence, how he intends to do so. {... ...} If anyone else was asking for funding on these terms, they'd be sent packing, probably by Shar himself. I would disagree with the idea that no one can operate on these terms. In fact I've bought in on one such (similar) operation (Ray). Having built up quite a few years of credibility, 3rd party handling of items, etc., etc. I did not expect that my choice to reserve the plan would not seem so unusual, especially since it is consistent with how I've always operated my own bonds. (If I started acting differently I wonder if someone would be choking on that too?) As to total secrecy, no it has not been kept. I've just chosen to limit myself to people I absolutely trust. For instance I trust Kazuo to look at my affairs on both my accounts. Even offered him access to my private "sexy" server so that he could look over historical data. I trust the guys at eBank as well (though I disagree with the "hows"). But there are times to rely on one's good word and keep one's mouth shut. I could be wrong but, meh, them's the occasional operational decisions. Mind you I'm not seeing this as trolling. I always tell people that going "maverick" is risky when seeking capital. I know I can go maverick. I'll just have to ride the ride no matter how bumpy. =) Originally by: MilowFV Also, if at a later date I want to add a 2nd bond should I make a new post for it? I see no problem with this at this time. I doubt it will be an issue. If it does, it'll just have to be worked out then. Originally by: Rho'varo Here, a "winner" in the auction may end up "winning" terms that are worse than they themselves tendered. This may make some more reluctant to bid in the first place (e.g., me) and may induce others to back out after winning terms they would not have tendered. Part of me wants to answer in tough love mode. Ironically, from my perspective, this about the most risk any interested investor takes. In equal measure your point is pertinent. I guess the only option is for me to be aware of this issue for various investors and simply be graceful if some simply object to the final interest rate. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Grustar	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:35:00 - [33] I'll take 1 (500M) at 4%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:39:00 - [34] Originally by: Grustar I'll take 1 (500M) at 4% Only 1??? I'll remember this! (wink) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:42:00 - [35] Edited by: Ji Sama on 17/09/2008 00:43:48 Originally by: Shar Tegral I'm not going to comment on what Kazuo is going to report Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I can confirm that Shar, through his majority holding in his corp, has control of a collection of locked-down BPOs of a comparable value to the total proposed CD issue. I verified this through the loan of a share, to make sure that I wasn't looking at BPCs. In the event of the HBB scenario, there are 5 people with 1 share each, including Athre, who can vote to unlock the BPOs as long as at least one of them is a director. They cannot remove the BPOs on their own as long as Shar is still around. I am unable to offer any assessment of the level of risk involved in this investment, as no details of any of Shar's plans have been disclosed to me. He's certainly capable of making the promised returns, but he considers it prudent to tell no-one, not even a single auditor, in strict confidence, how he intends to do so. I would not encourage anyone seeking public investment to maintain such complete silence. While it could be argued that statements of future intent cannot be proven true in any way that will protect investors, it's a lot easier for swindlers to dodge all questioning than it is for them to submit a detailed plan to the scrutiny of a trusted third party. Historically, this has proven to be a fruitful strategy for them. It is not in the community's interest to tolerate it. If anyone else was asking for funding on these terms, they'd be sent packing, probably by Shar himself. In fact, this actually happened quite recently. The only reason I'd have for investing would be to find out what he considers a reasonable discount. Originally by: Shar Tegral I would disagree with the idea that no one can operate on these terms. In fact I've bought in on one such (similar) operation (Ray). Having built up quite a few years of credibility, 3rd party handling of items, etc., etc. I did not expect that my choice to reserve the plan would not seem so unusual, especially since it is consistent with how I've always operated my own bonds. (If I started acting differently I wonder if someone would be choking on that too?) As to total secrecy, no it has not been kept. I've just chosen to limit myself to people I absolutely trust. For instance I trust Kazuo to look at my affairs on both my accounts. Even offered him access to my private "sexy" server so that he could look over historical data. I trust the guys at eBank as well (though I disagree with the "hows"). But there are times to rely on one's good word and keep one's mouth shut. I could be wrong but, meh, them's the occasional operational decisions. Mind you I'm not seeing this as trolling. I always tell people that going "maverick" is risky when seeking capital. I know I can go maverick. I'll just have to ride the ride no matter how bumpy. =) I lol'ed Shar I like the plan, inspiring. 4% is to low for me and even if it wasnt i am sure you wouldnt let me invest... "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:51:00 - [36] Originally by: Ji Sama 4% is to low for me and even if it wasnt i am sure you wouldn't let me invest... Well it beats out an eBank savings account, if you are lucky enough to have one, and even at buy out it still beats an eBank checking account. {shrugs} And you are right, I probably wouldn't accept your bid. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 00:56:00 - [37] Additionally I'd like to point out your selective quoting. The reason I was not going to comment on Kazuo's report was that I did not have it, period. I saw it for the first time along with everyone else. That being said I still did not comment on Kazuo's audit of myself or capabilities. I commented on the editorial that he added to his audit report. I felt safe to comment on his opinion on "practice" not on my "suitability". Of course that might have been too fine a line so I'll say that I'm not offended by this chance you have given me to clarify that distinction. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.17 01:04:00 - [38] it was a joke :D didnt mean to make you feel bad about yourself mate, dont worry, it was all in good jest. dont be hater mate, be cool, and breezed and shit.. i lub u, corndog.... think the plan is really NICE, and i meant that... And the 4% isnt bad just not what i am looking for atm :D BUTT im not uptight with my ISK, i just want them to GROWTH(ekkakub) and if it was a little higher i would have bitten, but ye i know you wouldnt let me invest, because i disagree with you and you dont like that :P goodbluck Sthar "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 01:50:00 - [39] Originally by: Ji Sama it was a joke No, it wasn't. You are just trying to stay on this side of the trolling line. However I don't mind. I've come to expect it of you & it gives me the opportunity to demonstrate the kind of demeanor and composure that I constantly suggests others to demonstrate. Even in the face of my warm and inviting personality. Originally by: Ji Sama because i disagree with you and you dont like that If that was the case, Ric would be more my enemy than you think you are. Tweaking someone is human nature and sometimes we, posters, are so impressed with our own cleverness. However it is not that you disagree with me it is that you don't actually say a why you disagree with me. You just disagree and taunt in the doing. You seem to want to cause trouble for trouble's sake without actually going out in the limb and sharing a thought. It is that last part that I find objectionable. My own opinion, I prefer opening my mouth and letting my thoughts come out. By daring to be stupid, I risk genius. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.17 02:06:00 - [40] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ji Sama it was a joke No, it wasn't. You are just trying to stay on this side of the trolling line. However I don't mind. I've come to expect it of you & it gives me the opportunity to demonstrate the kind of demeanor and composure that I constantly suggests others to demonstrate. Even in the face of my warm and inviting personality. Originally by: Ji Sama because i disagree with you and you dont like that If that was the case, Ric would be more my enemy than you think you are. Tweaking someone is human nature and sometimes we, posters, are so impressed with our own cleverness. However it is not that you disagree with me it is that you don't actually say a why you disagree with me. You just disagree and taunt in the doing. You seem to want to cause trouble for trouble's sake without actually going out in the limb and sharing a thought. It is that last part that I find objectionable. My own opinion, I prefer opening my mouth and letting my thoughts come out. By daring to be stupid, I risk genius. Noooes, i really really like your bonding... runs of and hides under a bridge There isnt actually anything i disagree with in this thread, except your dispute about intentions. I made a joke, found it funny, quoted, live with it.. other than that, your spot on.. Ill leave you good thread alone.... gl shar, not that you need it.. "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"

Mephistocles Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.17 02:14:00 - [41] I'd like to reserve 2 (1B) at 4%. Contingent upon being able to respectfully withdraw if the average interest rate falls below 3%. I'm sure you won't like the contingency, but I imagine you understand.
Kwint Sommer Caldari XERCORE	Posted - 2008.09.17 02:55:00 - [42] The rate is too low for me to bite (Kwint Industries pays ~5.4% monthly) but I definitely trust Shar enough to throw a few bil his way. Offer me a reasonable interest rate and I might just.... Purchasing and Shipping Moon Minerals
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 03:38:00 - [43] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Rho'varo Here, a "winner" in the auction may end up "winning" terms that are worse than they themselves tendered. This may make some more reluctant to bid in the first place (e.g., me) and may induce others to back out after winning terms they would not have tendered. Part of me wants to answer in tough love mode. Ironically, from my perspective, this about the most risk any interested investor takes. In equal measure your point is pertinent. I guess the only option is for me to be aware of this issue for various investors and simply be graceful if some simply object to the final interest rate.[/justify] You would see it that way, but from an investor's point of view, the biggest risk is our entire investment amount disappearing. That said, I will tender for 2 (1bn) at 4%. It doesn't look like there's much chance of anyone offering less than 4%, and 1bn is an amount I can risk. I too will stipulate that I don't want to invest if the rate falls below a certain point, but my point is 4%. If you prefer not to accept my offer with that condition then you can freely turn it down, no hard feelings.
Frenden Dax	Posted - 2008.09.17 03:45:00 - [44] I saw that Shar was offering a CD and thought "hey cool!" and then I saw the 4% return and thought... something else. I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this as well, but for those with deca-billions it probably looks attractive.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 03:52:00 - [45] Originally by: Frenden Dax I saw that Shar was offering a CD and thought "hey cool!" and then I saw the 4% return and thought... something else. I'm afraid I'll have to pass on this as well, but for those with deca-billions it probably looks attractive. I totally intended to specify that it was low interest in the title. Thanks for pointing this out. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 04:02:00 - [46] Originally by: Shar Tegral Ironically, from my perspective, this about the most risk any interested investor takes. Originally by: Nadarius Chrome You would see it that way, but from an investor's point of view, the biggest risk is our entire investment amount disappearing. There in lay the irony for me as I totally understand some people's concern that the isk might walk. However I truly would prefer that anyone who has this concern, in the least little bit, refrain from investing here, seriously. I'm not even going to bother with documenting all of the trust issues that do not apply in my particular case. I am, however, quite sure that if you make a list of possible trust issues, specifically list them out, I'll answer them if you can not find the answers yourself. I will try not to make to many snarky remarks while doing so... if I can resist that is. And no, I don't think any is really going to go below 4% (or if they do, not much below 4%). I'm not just planning for this week but I'm planning for the next week ninety (90) days from now or so. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:30:00 - [47] Shar, I know it looks terribly much like I am a research alt what with my being in a research alliance and all, but I assure you that I am not. This is my main. I have been playing eve only for about seven months with a primary focus on trade and industry and never found a reason for my main to join any legitimate corp. A few months ago I developed a need for research slots and didn't want to wait in queues so I joined a research alliance. That said I do have a few higher (although not impressive by any means) SP PvP characters that I've bought, but I don't post enough with them for their character auctions to be out of the 15 post history. If there is any reasonable measure I could take to reassure you let me know.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 05:45:00 - [48] Originally by: Enihcam Xes If there is any reasonable measure I could take to reassure you let me know. Sadly, as many will say, there is always a facile story for everything. In this case I looked at you. I see that you have been alive since January of this year. You have minimal standings. You are also in a solo man corporation apart of a research alliance. Also your corporation, as it stands, has no standings of its own indicating not a single storyline mission since the foundation. (That last part is not specifically telling - just compounding of the data.) Thus you are asking me to believe that in 8 months of playing Eve you have become so accomplished at the game that you can buy toons and yet you have the barest brush of any standings whatsoever? Truly amazing. Quite beyond my own personal probability level so sadly I'll have to stand with my first decision on the matter. PS: I do realize that via GTC sales you could have accelerated yourself very quickly indeed. However that possibility still leaves me shaking my head disinclined. I hope it was, at least, gtc's if you bought yourself a short cut. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Enihcam Xes	Posted - 2008.09.17 06:23:00 - [49] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Enihcam Xes If there is any reasonable measure I could take to reassure you let me know. Sadly, as many will say, there is always a facile story for everything. In this case I looked at you. I see that you have been alive since January of this year. You have minimal standings. You are also in a solo man corporation apart of a research alliance. Also your corporation, as it stands, has no standings of its own indicating not a single storyline mission since the foundation. (That last part is not specifically telling - just compounding of the data.) Thus you are asking me to believe that in 8 months of playing Eve you have become so accomplished at the game that you can buy toons and yet you have the barest brush of any standings whatsoever? Truly amazing. Quite beyond my own personal probability level so sadly I'll have to stand with my first decision on the matter. PS: I do realize that via GTC sales you could have accelerated yourself very quickly indeed. However that possibility still leaves me shaking my head disinclined. I hope it was, at least, gtc's if you bought yourself a short cut. Fair enough. I know there's a lot about my character that looks pretty bad from the outside. Just for the record though I've never sold GTCs or done anything else to unfairly acquire in game resources. I moved my way up from NPC goods to in station trading within a month of starting in EVE. Standings don't make that huge of an impact on taxes since I avoid super low margin items. I've avoided missions as I got bored killing NPCs a long time ago and it never really wore off. Best of luck with your endeavour. -EX
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.17 06:27:00 - [50] Refusing investors because they are in a research corp Bit picky aren't we?

Dranakolys Gallente Theurgy	Posted - 2008.09.17 07:34:00 - [51] Let's see: 4% interest rate as a best case, no secondary market, a load of other restrictions? Pretty poor offer, and you know it. Why would anyone want this over an EBank account? Then again I guess there are people that will throw money at you anyway. _______________ Amused to Death
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 07:39:00 - [52] Originally by: Dranakolys 4% interest rate as a best case, no secondary market, a load of other restrictions? Pretty poor offer, and you know it. Why would anyone want this over an EBank account? Thank you for restating what I've already typed. If there was anything obvious that was missed I'm sure we would have you to point it out. But seriously, let's play devil's advocate here. Why would anyone want this over an eBank account? After all I know I can answer your question with some ease just as much as I can answer the reverse. So... give it a try if you would. (Yes, I should be able to answer why this is better than an eBank account. I think that is likely what you might've wanted to ask if you were looking for dialogue.) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.17 07:52:00 - [53] I'd like to bid for 1 bond at 4%.
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:03:00 - [54] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ambo 3) Perhaps I'm missing somthing here but BMBE's loan is 2% per week interest, that would be costing you 8%+ per month. I'm not sure of Ebank's rates but I believe they are generally in the 10%+ per month range? So you're happy to give them (or BMBE at least) that much per month but not public investors? seems... wierd, that's all. I'll ignore your other comments as I think they are either hostile or uniformed. Other involved parties have, as of yet, shown up to confirm various securities/collaterals/audit so jumping into those issues is a bit... premature. (Even getting drawn into your debate is premature at this point) You're not going to answer my questions because you think I'm uninformed? (btw, you wrote uniformed, made me chukle :)) Surely that's the whole point of asking questions in the first place... Admittedly they're not really questions at all, they're observations, so I guess there is no answer to them anyway. I was merely pointing out the reasons why I would not invest. If that's hostile then so be it. Quote: However on this issue: If you read you would see that I choose not to entertain BMBE or eBank rates. I review them as possibilities, yes. It is one of the things I commonly suggest to people before they go public. So, of course I looked at that option. So, while you may feel a bit of hostility over the rate (your prerogative) trying to find fire where there is no smoke is a bit over the top. Oh and let me say this: I'm not going to get dragged into discussing Fury/Feronia. I've never acted like them, I do provide sufficient accountability and transparency where prudent, and I'm not asking for all that much. There is only one person's cross I carry, no one else's. (Besides Ambo, when you go on in someone's ipo thread about "who are you" are you saying that reputation matters not at all?) Ok, so you didn't go with the banks, at least in part, because of the rates. That's fine, it's just that your original post made it seem like you would have gone with them were it not for other factors, in Ebank's case the pollitical aspect and BMBE's, the collateral. (this was supposistion based on my memory of this post, admittedlly I didn't remember the bit about you asking for a rate of 2%, just the collateral requirements being to steep) To your last point, I'm not saying reputation does not matter at all but I'm saying that even the best reputation does not nullify risk. I'm not comparing you to these recent failures at all, I'm simply pointing out that no matter how good your reputation is, there is still risk. In my opinion, that risk is always greater than 4% so when your rates are that low, yes, your reputation does become irrelevant to me. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:15:00 - [55] Originally by: Ambo You're not going to answer my questions because you think I'm uninformed? (btw, you wrote uniformed, made me chukle :)) Surely that's the whole point of asking questions in the first place... As I said I simply thought that the point you brought up were premature to discuss at that time. Now that various others have spoken up, for instance the back up person and the auditor, I'm more than willing to engage in dialogue over questions and refinements that you feel are necessary. And I simply felt that the way you characterized the situation was a bit harsh in the light of my own ready admittance that the interest was low. So, I was a bit surprised at your choice of tone when covering an issue well disclosed. I.e. I could see if I made it out to seem like I was doing the public a huge favor. I honestly stated that I'd like to go as low as possible but I'm willing to meet the public >gestures with his fingers< this far. And they have been responding to me in kind. Mind you when I said hostile I did not mean attack. Just surprised at the choice of words you used. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:38:00 - [56] Originally by: Ambo To your last point, I'm not saying reputation does not matter at all but I'm saying that even the best reputation does not nullify risk. I'm not comparing you to these recent failures at all, I'm simply pointing out that no matter how good your reputation is, there is still risk. In my opinion, that risk is always greater than 4% so when your rates are that low, yes, your reputation does become irrelevant to me. This kind of circular logic bothered me until I understood what you may have been saying. Reputation is not fool proof, not at all. Fair to say that for 12 billion I am very likely to run off with people's isk and trash 5+ years of reputation and be forced to sell off a toon with 76M SP. Either that or I'd be using up that 12 billion to fund the years of pvp and hostility I would get for being a scammer. Of course I think what you are saying is that 4% is not worth the risk to you. Offering a low interest rate does not necessarily make me a risk. After all, if I'm risk at 4% what am I at 5%? 7%? 10%? Where does it matter and where does it not? So what I'm taking from your opinion is that this is not worth the trouble/liability to you and somehow you are bringing up Feronia and FastLearner at the same time in some sort of mixed signal message. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:43:00 - [57] I noticed that 13 Bonds have bidders now at this moment I write this. The bond amount was between 6 and 12 bil. Does this mean you have reached the critical amount to start with this project even if the remaining bonds don't sell?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 08:46:00 - [58] Originally by: Redbad I noticed that 13 Bonds have bidders now at this moment I write this. The bond amount was between 6 and 12 bil. Does this mean you have reached the critical amount to start with this project even if the remaining bonds don't sell? This is entirely true but only in part. I didn't put a minimum to start as I was going to proceed with whatever limit I reached. I'm not limited by economics of scale here nor am I trying to leverage it either. The only limit I'm placing on myself is essentially the same kind of limit that I watched, very closely, when I was an eBank director: Debt load and Utilization. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:05:00 - [59] If this had been posted by any other character you would have hammered it out of these forums all the way to back to CAOD. No plan; low rate; no independantly held security; auditor warning; dubious auction rules; a previously failed business; snarky responses to long time posters ... no lemmings (lol). You're basically cashing in on your forum reputation which puts me off more than any of the above. [IMA6E REMOVED]
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:12:00 - [60] Originally by: Lo Lightshard ~~No plan~~; low rate; no independantly held security; ~~auditor warning~~; ~~dubious auction rules~~; ~~a previously failed business~~; snarky responses to long time posters ... no lemmings (lol). Shame you wish you had reputation to cash in on. Mind you I fixed your post to remove the outright lies. I did not report you for a troll as I prefer to see if you can prove what you say. I know you won't stfu, that would be too much to ask for. The ball is yours, if you've got the balls. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:24:00 - [61] I generally don't have a problem with people holding back on business details if they have been proven trustworthy in the past. Whilst the RDIR returns weren't as spectacular as one might assume they could have been they still were acceptable. I wouldn't say it was a failed business, far from it. Generally a failed business would be one that resulted in a loss for investors. Anyway I don't have an issue with the operation itself, the only thing stopping an EBANK or even my own personal investment in this operation is the interest rate. The amount being requested is quite minimal compared to what Shar has dealt with in EBANK. On a regular basis Shar had access to anywhere up to 25b and in one case he had access to an amount closer to 100b (I didn't have Eve access and Shar was distributing isk to staff for operational purposes). I don't question his trustworthiness and I am certain Shar is the kind of person who (even if he lost all of the isk) would work his rear end off to get the funds back no matter the cost. Plus having Athre as a backup is a big plus. Athre is an absolute workhorse and has phenomenal organisational skills. Even though she is only a teller in EBANK she is always on the ball, making sure deadlines are met and pushing issues that need pushing. I believe the risk factor is virtually nil and the only factor that an investor need be concerned of is the rate of return and whether or not it is acceptable to them. I don't personally like the reverse dutch auction type style design but I do like the layout Shar has used in his first post. Obviously there is a lack of detail in regards to his business plan but I am sure he has reasons for withholding information and I don't believe the amount being requested needs any major form of oversight. Eefrit, Ionia, Fastlearner had over 200b of funds without telling people an inch of what they were doing. Obviously they may not be the best examples as two of the three are virtually scams however other trusted parties have done similar things before. Most people don't know where EBANK spend all the isks as well (look out for EBANK outposts!!
Redbad Minmatar Mean Corp Mean Coalition	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:25:00 - [62] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Redbad I noticed that 13 Bonds have bidders now at this moment I write this. The bond amount was between 6 and 12 bil. Does this mean you have reached the critical amount to start with this project even if the remaining bonds don't sell? This is entirely true but only in part. I didn't put a minimum to start as I was going to proceed with whatever limit I reached. I'm not limited by economics of scale here nor am I trying to leverage it either. The only limit I'm placing on myself is essentially the same kind of limit that I watched, very closely, when I was an eBank director: Debt load and Utilization. Thanks for the answer, it answered my question, but it raises another question. The purpose of me asking further is figuring the limits of the bond itself and not necesarily your own limits. You use the words: "I'm not limited" and "limit I'm placing on myself" in the above answer. In my vison that doesn not equal to the limits of the bond itself necesarrily. Did I understand correctly that the maximum of the total bond amount is not exactly 12 bil., but is determined by the debt load and utilization you can handle/work with and the words "I' and "The Bond" were intermixed?
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:33:00 - [63] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Whilst the RDIR returns weren't as spectacular as one might assume they could have been they still were acceptable. I wouldn't say it was a failed business, far from it. Generally a failed business would be one that resulted in a loss for investors. This is a matter of opinion. Proton Power described his last IPO as a "failed business" even though it returned capital and some dividends. I agree. [IMA6E REMOVED]
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:47:00 - [64] Yeh it's definetly subjective.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:52:00 - [65] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Whilst the RDIR returns weren't as spectacular as one might assume they could have been they still were acceptable. I wouldn't say it was a failed business, far from it. Generally a failed business would be one that resulted in a loss for investors. Originally by: Lo Lightshard This is a matter of opinion. Proton Power described his last IPO as a "failed business" even though it returned capital and some dividends. I agree. Hmmmm... I'd agree that it was subjective if RDIR was my IPO. It was not. My job was to provide security and oversight. Not to provide performance. I provided exactly what I was hired to do. The effectiveness of my part is academic as the person's whose IPO RDIR was ran off with 10 billion isk from a second IPO he started. So, while I do not gloss over the events surrounding RDIR I also do not feel that I failed. "Underperformed" is a concession to the opportunity costs lost to investors. And I never make light of anything connected to people who place their trust in me. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mr Horizontal Gallente KIA Corp KIA Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 09:59:00 - [66] For me the combination of low rate and the fact I can't trade the shares are what eliminate me from investing in this. If it matched Ray's bond, my disposition would be different. This bond he's offering is simply because he has chosen to get a better rate going public than keeping it as a loan. Elementary and sound business practice. As per Shar's rep, while virtually everything he's done (EVE Guardian, RDIR, and leaving EBANK) have almost routinely ended in a huge drama of some kind (even Shar will admit this), Shar's fundamental ethical values and honesty have always been vindicated. So while he has many battlescars to show off (and hence in part leading to his aggressive stance in posts), he's possibly the most tested and most vindicated public character around. So for what its worth, I cannot stress enough that there's absolutely no reason Shar cannot be trusted even with 10 times more money than he's requesting. Director \| www.eve-bank.net
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:02:00 - [67] Put me down for an additional 500m at 4% please.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:06:00 - [68] Originally by: Shar Tegral Final interest rate will be determined from the average of all bids. No bid as good until I say accepted. Originally by: Lo Lightshard Anyone else seen this in an IPO before? Yes. Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro stuff Originally by: Lo Lightshard Not a warning? Is that supposed to be some sort of warning about me specifically? Or is that an expression on his part that he did not like that I did not share my plan with him. (Mind you it has been shared, just not with him nor publicly.) Finally, are you concerned here about this IPO or are you attempting this? At this point your actual intent is unclear. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:07:00 - [69] Originally by: Mr Horizontal Shar's fundamental ethical values and honesty have always been vindicated. In the context of EBank, are you sure? [IMA6E REMOVED]
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:15:00 - [70] Originally by: Shar Tegral Yes. The fact that you have employed this mechanism in the past doesn't make it acceptable. Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro stuff Originally by: Lo Lightshard Not a warning? Is that supposed to be some sort of warning about me specifically? Or is that an expression on his part that he did not like that I did not share my plan with him. (Mind you it has been shared, just not with him nor publicly.) This is cleary advice to this community. The quote explicitly states this. Originally by: Shar Tegral Finally, are you concerned here about this IPO or are you attempting this? At this point your actual intent is unclear. Both. [IMA6E REMOVED]

Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles Zzz	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:17:00 - [71] Originally by: Shar Tegral For instance I trust Kazuo to look at my affairs on both my accounts. Even offered him access to my private "sexy" server so that he could look over historical data. I trust the guys at eBank as well (though I disagree with the "hows"). Although this set of data is useful to the extent that it allows me to comment on your general ability to turn a profit, none of it can be applied to this particular IPO, with any certainty, if you don't disclose any details of what your plans involve. You said, yourself, that your records were not relevant. For all I know, you might be using the proceeds to play poker. Of course, you remain a widely trusted figure and plenty of people have chosen to invest in you anyway, on the strength of your previous actions and your reputation. I'm sure you won't let them down. ----- DIY copying in Liekuri 20:1 mineral compression Nomad JF for sale
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:19:00 - [72] Originally by: Rho'varo Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Khrillian 2-Why are you using average bid to determine the interest rate? You do realize you might get some people pulling out because of that after the fact - if the interest rate they get is significantly lower than what they bid. That is a common risk of Dutch auctions. Not an unusual circumstance. Anyone that backs out over such is not worth doing business with. I agree that anyone who backs out of a bid for a known amount (or rate or risk) is a sub-optimal business partner, and it is true that in any auction without payment up front (Dutch or otherwise), there is a possibility of nominally winning parties failing to pay. However, as identified by Khrillian, this enterprise's use of the average interest rate introduces a problem that is atypical of auctions (Dutch or otherwise). In a regular auction, the winning bidder is expected to pay only what he or she has bid. Similarly, in a typical Dutch auction, the winners all participate on terms at or better than those they themselves bid. Here, a "winner" in the auction may end up "winning" terms that are worse than they themselves tendered. This may make some more reluctant to bid in the first place (e.g., me) and may induce others to back out after winning terms they would not have tendered. Maybe this is what Shar is going for, but this auction payout system creates strong incentives to bid lower interest rates than you otherwise might. If the current bid is 4% and you bid 2%, you only pay for 1/24th of the change in the average but you are a winner. Also, someone could bid -92% on a single bond and Shar would get his loan for free. IMO it would be simpler to just give everyone the interest rate of the winner with the highest interest rate. This way everyone (in theory) will bid exactly once and will bid their value. But of course its your auction.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:21:00 - [73] Originally by: Shar Tegral Yes. Originally by: Lo Lightshard The fact that you have employed this mechanism in the past doesn't make it acceptable. No it doesn't. However acceptable is up to the choice of those involved. Is there something inherently flawed about this though? Other than it being different to you. Originally by: Lo Lightshard This is cleary advice to this community. The quote explicitly states this. And it has nothing, specifically, to do with me. Kazuo is entitled to an opinion. The opinion does not apply to me as the plan has been shared. Just not with you and not with him. Originally by: Shar Tegral Finally, are you concerned here about this IPO or are you attempting this? At this point your actual intent is unclear. Originally by: Lo Lightshard Both. That being the case I will now report you for trying to flamebait and threadjack. I think we've spent enough time on you at this point. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:23:00 - [74] Originally by: Shar Tegral Is there something inherently flawed about this though? Other than it being different to you. I will take two bonds at 2%. [IMA6E REMOVED]
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:25:00 - [75] Originally by: Lo Lightshard Is there something inherently flawed about this though? Other than it being different to you. Originally by: Shar Tegral I will take two bonds at 2%. In your case, your bid will only be accepted upon receipt of 1 billion. Otherwise you are trolling. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:26:00 - [76] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Lo Lightshard Is there something inherently flawed about this though? Other than it being different to you. Originally by: Shar Tegral I will take two bonds at 2%. In your case, your bid will only be accepted upon receipt of 1 billion. Otherwise you are trolling. Please let me know when to transfer the cash. [IMA6E REMOVED]
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:32:00 - [77] Originally by: Lo Lightshard Edited by: Lo Lightshard on 17/09/2008 09:25:02 Originally by: Shar Tegral The Plan: Withheld No plan. I obviously mean published, no other context is relevant to investors. Originally by: Shar Tegral issuer of several repaid bonds and one completed (but underperformed) IPO Did not perform as intended = fail. Originally by: Shar Tegral Final interest rate will be determined from the average of all bids. No bid as good until I say accepted. Anyone else seen this in an IPO before? Originally by: Kazuo Ishiguro I would not encourage anyone seeking public investment to maintain such complete silence. While it could be argued that statements of future intent cannot be proven true in any way that will protect investors, it's a lot easier for swindlers to dodge all questioning than it is for them to submit a detailed plan to the scrutiny of a trusted third party. Historically, this has proven to be a fruitful strategy for them. It is not in the community's interest to tolerate it. Not a warning? Edit: wrong quote, sorry. QFT, noes teh lies "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:33:00 - [78] Originally by: Lo Lightshard Please let me know when to transfer the cash. You don't need my permission to send it. You said buyout, thus you should be ready to send it right now. Kazuo still has access to my api, among others, so I don't even have to log in to confirm transfer. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:43:00 - [79] Confirming 2 bonds at buyout purchased by Lo Lightshard. In 90 days you may choose to cash in your bond sir or allow it to rollover. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lo Lightshard Insurrection Inc Tygris Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:48:00 - [80] Originally by: Shar Tegral Confirming 2 bonds at buyout purchased by Lo Lightshard. In 90 days you may choose to cash in your bond sir or allow it to rollover. Just so we're clear. This is an exercise in proving a point by manipulating interest rates. Not an endorsement in the format of this IPO. This will be my last post in this thread. [IMA6E REMOVED]

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 10:53:00 - [81] Originally by: Shar Tegral Confirming 2 bonds at buyout purchased by Lo Lightshard. In 90 days you may choose to cash in your bond sir or allow it to rollover. Originally by: Lo Lightshard Just so we're clear. This is an exercise in proving a point by manipulating interest rates. Not an endorsement in the format of this IPO. This will be my last post in this thread. I sincerely hope not. Though you really really really don't like me at all you are now an investor. That means I do have a responsibility to you that I will keep regardless of my opinion of how you have tried to slander me. In the end, even if everyone else pulls out because of you, for the next 90 days we will have cause to interact. If I should fail, I want you to post it here. However, in equal measure, should I keep my word... ... In the end, it is that simple mate. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.17 11:15:00 - [82] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ambo To your last point, I'm not saying reputation does not matter at all but I'm saying that even the best reputation does not nullify risk. I'm not comparing you to these recent failures at all, I'm simply pointing out that no matter how good your reputation is, there is still risk. In my opinion, that risk is always greater than 4% so when your rates are that low, yes, your reputation does become irrelevant to me. This kind of circular logic bothered me until I understood what you may have been saying. Reputation is not fool proof, not at all. Fair to say that for 12 billion I am very likely to run off with people's isk and trash 5+ years of reputation and be forced to sell off a toon with 76M SP. Either that or I'd be using up that 12 billion to fund the years of pvp and hostility I would get for being a scammer. Of course I think what you are saying is that 4% is not worth the risk to you. Offering a low interest rate does not necessarily make me a risk. After all, if I'm risk at 4% what am I at 5%? 7%? 10%? Where does it matter and where does it not? So what I'm taking from your opinion is that this is not worth the trouble/liability to you and somehow you are bringing up Feronia and FastLearner at the same time in some sort of mixed signal message. Exactly, I believe the chances of you deciding to run off with the money are virtually zero. I also believe the chances that your business plan will fail are virtually zero. I brought up Feronia and FastLearner because they were both characters with long-term business success and immacualte reputations. Both of whom collapsed leaving investors hundreds of billions out of pocket. I would have said the same about both of them, they wouldn't have run off with the money and their business plans were clearly effective. That does not change the fact that, in the end, they failed investors. They are simply an illustration of the fact that investing in someone is always a risk, no matter how perfect the rep or business plan may be. For me personally, I'm simply not willing to risk 1 bil for just 40 mil per month. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 11:30:00 - [83] Originally by: Ambo That does not change the fact that, in the end, they failed investors. They are simply an illustration of the fact that investing in someone is always a risk, no matter how perfect the rep or business plan may be. Cool, now that we are on the same sheet of music I simply find myself wondering why you felt it necessary to say it so much, so many times, so strongly, when I myself said the same in my prospectus? And I do find it a bit strange that you keep bringing those two up? I still have a few FRPB shares myself. The originals I purchased back when they were first being sold. As for FastLearner, I invested nothing in him but he invested in me (collaterally). And received 100% of his investment back with less than stellar returns. Other than that, why does the failings of someone else have to be constantly dragged through my thread? Is my offering supposed to be the place to exemplify and condemn all scammers and absconders? Truly told, I'd rather you ask about my bond instead of taking the time to tell us about someone else's history or the fact that this bond is not for you. <sigh> To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 11:45:00 - [84] Originally by: Redbad Did I understand correctly that the maximum of the total bond amount is not exactly 12 bil., but is determined by the debt load and utilization you can handle/work with and the words "I' and "The Bond" were intermixed? I'm not aware that I mixed the context like that. But now that we've finally gotten past a few hurdles I'd like to return to your concerns. The maximum capital to be raised is 12 billion. This is to be raised by issuing 24 500M bonds. So, in truth, there is more than just one bond. However it is common practice to label this action under the ubiquitous "bond issuance" or "the bond". Now, this maximum could be extend at a later time however this extension would be with the prior notice and approval of all involved parties. Originally by: Shar Tegral All things being equal all bond repayments will be on, or before, the 15th of each month. All payments will be one month in advance as well. There are no reports expected to be issued, no need for e-peen spamming, however every 3rd month a report will be issued and the continuation status of the bond will be up for deliberation by involved parties. The scheduling is not just for redeeming of the bond but for feedback and deliberation between myself and bondholders who wish to continue forward. So, you rightfully suspect that I am limiting myself with the potential of extending my reach further. However that extension will not be without notice or approval from those who are currently invested with me. (Even if I know I'll have some troublemakers, already.) In the real world bondholders have power. Unfortunately in Eve this power is entirely hostage to the honor of the bond issuer. Thus things become simple again: Either I have honor or I do not. The proof of that "this time" can only be discovered at that time. As people like to say, "Shar hasn't scammed anyone, yet." As has been stated, no matter how little the risk is there still exists risk. PS: Remember at some point this is still a game. While that is often an excuse used by many to dismiss the kinds of malfeasance that they commit for me the saying means something similar but entirely different. Here in this game, this "sandbox", I can indulge in my idealistic fantasies. Idealistic dreams that simply do not stand up well in the light of day in the real world. So yeah, "how I am" is part roleplay. It is the role I want to play all the time. Game or no game. And, regardless of Eve being a game, I'm very serious about that. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:14:00 - [85] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic Anyway I don't have an issue with the operation itself, the only thing stopping an EBANK or even my own personal investment in this operation is the interest rate. The amount being requested is quite minimal compared to what Shar has dealt with in EBANK. On a regular basis Shar had access to anywhere up to 25b and in one case he had access to an amount closer to 100b (I didn't have Eve access and Shar was distributing isk to staff for operational purposes). Exactly, the length of the offer, with the rate of return and lack of details (if even vague to prevent sniping) are preventing me from investing my investors isk in it. I'd much rather short term loan/bond on someone like Ambo, than lock up something for 3 months at such a low rate at this point in time.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:29:00 - [86] I find it somewhat reassuring that Shar is being dragged into the sort of hostile environment that has been created on these forums with IPO posts. I also find the 'no idiots' clause hilarious, and the vetting of potential investors is a new twist - apparently, only money of a certain reputation is required in this bond. I do, however, applaud Shar for setting a good example in the tone of his replies, but I'll note that because he's on the other side of the fence, there's not the same level of hostility for him to reply to. If this IPO turned up with someone else's name on it, I'm sure Shar would have been wading in to send them packing. Not even disclosing your plan to the auditor or other trusted referee would have been the sticking point - do you even know what you're going to be doing, Shar ? But, back to the meat of the offer: the first thing that springs into my mind upon reading this, is that he is trading on his 'reputation' (sic) on these forums to get cheap cash. That's entirely his perogative and good business, but if you think back to all the posts where he has hinted and alluded to his abilities to generate vast quantities of ISK, the 4% looks a bit insulting. Plus, I'd also like to bet that he was counting on the exact outcome we have witnessed: someone bidding at the buyout rate to 'have a jab at Shar', hence lowering the interest rate even further. I also can't quite get clear in my head why we should consider it 'low risk', if he is mitigating risk by not telling anyone what he's doing. We've all seen how well security through obscurity works for Microsoft.... so I can only assume that the 'low risk' here actually refers to his ability to pay out should the bond fail, rather than the use of the money raised in this particular bond in a 'low risk' venture. Not a good example for the forum, and not good business. Like someone said, he could be playing poker! Having said all of that, and as much as I'm tempted to just say 'too low interest', I've got ISK that I can't be bothered to use myself, and it's a better rate than EBank. [Gets coin out of pocket, lobs into the air... coin lands on wrist...] I'll take one bond (500m) at 4%, and I'm happy to stay in all the way down to 2%. Take it or leave it, Shar. Apparently I'm a lemming when it comes to investment, according to some of your peers, so you might not want my money. I won't be insulted if you don't.
flakeys Coalition of Nations Free Trade Zone.	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:41:00 - [87] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Exactly, the length of the offer, with the rate of return and lack of details (if even vague to prevent sniping) are preventing me from investing my investors isk in it. I'd much rather short term loan/bond on someone like Ambo, than lock up something for 3 months at such a low rate at this point in time. Basicaly says how i feel about the deal.
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:42:00 - [88] I have seen about 5 times now you guys have mentioned Feronia in various derogatory terms. Now, I actually know who Feronia is in Eve, and it's not Ionia. Seems one person got the name wrong and everyone followed suit. --- Ionia ran FRPB and scammed lots of people --- Feronia is a quiet, friendly Eve player I feel sorry if Feronia ever goes for a loan with the banks and these threads come up indicating he has scammed people when people are naming the wrong person
Feronia Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.17 12:59:00 - [89] Thanks Ric for clearing that out. I'm in no way related to Ionia and never scammed a living soul. I've contacted my lawyer about this
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:10:00 - [90] Originally by: Kazzac Elentria Exactly, the length of the offer, with the rate of return and lack of details (if even vague to prevent sniping) are preventing me from investing my investors isk in it. Then may I assume you've never taken an eBank bond? Because, for all intents and purposes, this is exactly what I'm offering. The only difference is that I'm letting the market decide the final rate for the bond and my trying to limit alt investment. Exactly like every eBank bond previously issued. - No secondary market. - Locked in time period. - Manually handled. (Don't be fooled by what you saw on the website, it was manually done.) - 3.5% interest rate. - No Plan Disclosure. Of course that's eBank right? Or was that eBank when I was with it and several hundreds of billions was fine then? Truly Kazzac, I don't want your money. You can keep it, honest. I won't lose sleep over it. (Seriously, you can consider this a rejection of any offer you might make, twice or more.) Originally by: Mike'P That's entirely his perogative and good business, but if you think back to all the posts where he has hinted and alluded to his abilities to generate vast quantities of ISK, the 4% looks a bit insulting. I've never epeened about my trade activities. That's Shadarle Mister Obviously Remembering Others Not correctly. He's the one that pwns you all in income and trade. I never discuss what I do. I leave you to decide who is smarter. Originally by: Mike'P so I can only assume that the 'low risk' here actually refers to his ability to pay out should the bond fail, rather than the use of the money raised in this particular bond in a 'low risk' venture. Not a good example for the forum, and not good business. Yes, obviously not a good example and not good business. Wait? What are we talking about here? Did you not miss a 3rd party state full disclosure of the plan to them? I guess reading is not a fundamental where you are from. Originally by: Mike'P Like someone said, he could be playing poker! I wish Kazuo would check his chat logs. Because I specifically told him that I would not disclose the plan to him. However if he should offer possibilities I would respond honestly to them. Kazuo may think that being apprised of the plan makes him better able to comment on an IPO however I also think that it can create a conflict of interest. Kazuo was given api keys to both of my accounts. He had my full permission to poke around as much as he wished to confirm a variety of details. No suspicious alts, no suspicious share holders, no suspicious transfers, no suspicious (or lack) of inventory. Skill points to cover all eventualities and assets, confirmed hard assets, that can be used to cover any disaster if it may arise. The fact that Kazuo holds a negative opinion regarding my choice to not disclose to him my activities is his prerogative. However that "opinion" has nothing to do with the facts of his audit. IMHO if he felt that my not disclosing the "plan" to him was such a major issue he could have, and likely should have, done the ethical thing and refuse to do the audit. That being said, I am not playing poker. I've never visited any eve gambling site. I think I've tossed money into the Big lottery once but that was a return gesture of support to BIG for all of their support to Eve Guardian. Such things are always remembered, even years later. Originally by: Mike'P I'll take one bond (500m) at 4%, and I'm happy to stay in all the way down to 2%. Listen, if you want to invest then invest. I know your not an alt and I don't find you particularly objectionable. However I'm quite serious when I say that I'd rather not have your money if I don't have to be jerked around by you at the same time. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

Essque Starlancers	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:17:00 - [91] 2 bonds, buyout at 2%.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:22:00 - [92] Originally by: Essque 2 bonds, buyout at 2%. I know who you are, obviously, but I am loathe to allow you to dump the rate so low in the face of no competition. So I'm going to post your bid for 2 bonds at 4% with you willing to go as low as 2% if bidding should go that route. Only fair. PS: Especially since you are a close friend and may be biased. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Essque Starlancers	Posted - 2008.09.17 13:46:00 - [93] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Essque 2 bonds, buyout at 2%. I know who you are, obviously, but I am loathe to allow you to dump the rate so low in the face of no competition. So I'm going to post your bid for 2 bonds at 4% with you willing to go as low as 2% if bidding should go that route. Only fair. PS: Especially since you are a close friend and may be biased. Nah, don't ruin my schadenfreude please. 2%. Forum PvP FTW. Almost better than the one in-game.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:03:00 - [94] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Mike'P That's entirely his perogative and good business, but if you think back to all the posts where he has hinted and alluded to his abilities to generate vast quantities of ISK, the 4% looks a bit insulting. I've never epeened about my trade activities. That's Shadarle Mister Obviously Remembering Others Not correctly. He's the one that pwns you all in income and trade. I never discuss what I do. I leave you to decide who is smarter. I'll ignore the snarkiness, and just point out I said 'hint' and 'allude', which is not a style that anyone could attribute to Shadarle. Based on the evidence, I couldn't possibly decide which of you is smarter. But do you see what you did there ? You hinted that you're at least as smart as Shadarle, if not more so, and if that is the case, you must be at least as able to generate ISK as he is. That is the sort of thing I was referring to. Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Mike'P so I can only assume that the 'low risk' here actually refers to his ability to pay out should the bond fail, rather than the use of the money raised in this particular bond in a 'low risk' venture. Not a good example for the forum, and not good business. Yes, obviously not a good example and not good business. Wait? What are we talking about here? Did you not miss a 3rd party state full disclosure of the plan to them? I guess reading is not a fundamental where you are from. And I guess quoting the right bit of my post isn't a fundamental where you are from ? Whether I missed Athre being aware of the plan or not doesn't change the fact that we don't know if you are using these funds for a specific 'low risk' venture, hence the low interest rate, or for a 'high risk' venture using your personal wealth and reputation as security. As I understand it, a business raises funds for a specific activity, not just to put more in the pot knowing that at some point in the future, one of its profit centres will be able to repay the loan. I'm not saying that's what you're doing - I'm just saying that we can't tell if you're not. My real point is that you wouldn't tolerate this approach from someone else, and if one of the goals of this bond is to show us all how one should be conducted, you've stumbled a bit there in the example you're setting. Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Mike'P I'll take one bond (500m) at 4%, and I'm happy to stay in all the way down to 2%. Listen, if you want to invest then invest. I know your not an alt and I don't find you particularly objectionable. However I'm quite serious when I say that I'd rather not have your money if I don't have to be jerked around by you at the same time. Do you see how this sounds? I jot down a few thoughts, and you call this 'jerking you around'. If you read what I wrote there at the end, you'll see that I'm not jerking you around - in fact, I'm trying to make life simpler for you by promising not to back out. Let me split it out into easily digestible bullet points:- I will send you 500m ISK in return for one bond My interest rate bid is at 4% If you don't want my money that is fine and I won't get grumpy about it If some misguided individuals bid down the line to 2% and I'm still in the list, I'll not jerk you around by backing out of the deal There was no need to be snarky. You want our money, remember. Well, some of us
Ambo Dirty Deeds Corp. Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:25:00 - [95] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Ambo That does not change the fact that, in the end, they failed investors. They are simply an illustration of the fact that investing in someone is always a risk, no matter how perfect the rep or business plan may be. Cool, now that we are on the same sheet of music I simply find myself wondering why you felt it necessary to say it so much, so many times, so strongly, when I myself said the same in my prospectus? And I do find it a bit strange that you keep bringing those two up? I still have a few FRPB shares myself. The originals I purchased back when they were first being sold. As for FastLearner, I invested nothing in him but he invested in me (collaterally). And received 100% of his investment back with less than stellar returns. Other than that, why does the failings of someone else have to be constantly dragged through my thread? Is my offering supposed to be the place to exemplify and condemn all scammers and absconders? Truly told, I'd rather you ask about my bond instead of taking the time to tell us about someone else's history or the fact that this bond is not for you. <sigh> lol, ok, well I'll just leave it there then. You still seem to be missing my point but never mind. Good luck. -------------------------------------- Trader? Investor? Just want to track your finances? Check out EMMA
Dylythium Minmatar Starlancers	Posted - 2008.09.17 14:34:00 - [96] 2 Bonds @ 2% please old friend.
Kazzac Elentria	Posted - 2008.09.17 15:15:00 - [97] Edited by: Kazzac Elentria on 17/09/2008 15:15:47 Originally by: Shar Tegral Then may I assume you've never taken an eBank bond? Because, for all intents and purposes, this is exactly what I'm offering. The only difference is that I'm letting the market decide the final rate for the bond and my trying to limit alt investment. Exactly like every eBank bond previously issued. - No secondary market. - Locked in time period. - Manually handled. (Don't be fooled by what you saw on the website, it was manually done.) - 3.5% interest rate. - No Plan Disclosure. Of course that's eBank right? Or was that eBank when I was with it and several hundreds of billions was fine then? Truly Kazzac, I don't want your money. You can keep it, honest. I won't lose sleep over it. (Seriously, you can consider this a rejection of any offer you might make, twice or more.) Actually I never did that either for the exact same reasons. We keep accounts there for shared usage between alliance members and business partners. Honestly all that I would need is some idea of what you're doing. Even with Ebank some idea of what is being done behind the scenes is public knowledge. (Secondary investments, loans, market manipulation, start ups, etc..). Hell tell me you're buying and selling alliance jump access for some unammed project... I don't need details just an idea of what risk 4% or less would get me. Can't same much other than you, I, and many others(as evidence in the past) have expected the same from anyone else making a public offering. Good luck on your venture though *edited because I forgot to mention it wouldn't be my money. But my corpmates dollars
iskopoly Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.09.17 15:29:00 - [98] I personally don't see any problem with the bid system. While I may not "prefer" it....it is after all his business proposition, his rep, and his call. I on the other hand am building up funds after returning to the game recently. I do not expect to be able to afford investing for quite some time. . It is all about the ISK
Khrillian Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:13:00 - [99] Originally by: iskopoly I personally don't see any problem with the bid system. While I may not "prefer" it....it is after all his business proposition, his rep, and his call. I on the other hand am building up funds after returning to the game recently. I do not expect to be able to afford investing for quite some time. Like I said...try offering Shar anything up to -92%. You made a really silly bid but if he accepts your bid at -.92 everyone ends up with a 0% average interest rate (if they bid 4%). This kind of silliness would be avoided with another system of bids. Instead, Shar insists on manually modifying people's bids (for example, someone bids 2%, he responded "no, your bid is 4% (but I'll put your max bid at 2%)," just so the "average" wouldn't get screwed up.
Tashia Rizti Lost Terra Technology	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:18:00 - [100] I'll Take 2 bonds @ 4% please

iskopoly Amarr Royal Amarr Institute	Posted - 2008.09.17 18:21:00 - [101] Originally by: Khrillian Originally by: iskopoly I personally don't see any problem with the bid system. While I may not "prefer" it....it is after all his business proposition, his rep, and his call. I on the other hand am building up funds after returning to the game recently. I do not expect to be able to afford investing for quite some time. Like I said...try offering Shar anything up to -92%. You made a really silly bid but if he accepts your bid at -.92 everyone ends up with a 0% average interest rate (if they bid 4%). This kind of silliness would be avoided with another system of bids. Instead, Shar insists on manually modifying people's bids (for example, someone bids 2%, he responded "no, your bid is 4% (but I'll put your max bid at 2%)," just so the "average" wouldn't get screwed up. i believe you have me misquoted. . It is all about the ISK
Sixtus	Posted - 2008.09.17 19:30:00 - [102] I bid on 2 Bonds - 4%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 22:24:00 - [103] Originally by: Khrillian Like I said...try offering Shar anything up to -92%. You made a really silly bid but if he accepts your bid at -.92 everyone ends up with a 0% average interest rate (if they bid 4%). This kind of silliness would be avoided with another system of bids. There is a hard minimum that can be reached. It is 2%, not some ridiculous number that you've pulled out your bum. Originally by: Khrillian Instead, Shar insists on manually modifying people's bids (for example, someone bids 2%, he responded "no, your bid is 4% (but I'll put your max bid at 2%)," just so the "average" wouldn't get screwed up. The part you missed out on is that was a bid from a corp mate. While I appreciate(d) the support it smacks of collusion (and thus impropriety) for me to accept his bid as it was placed. Having your friends stack the deck for you, even unasked for, is not my style. If that's a problem for you perhaps you need to see someone about your own ethical failings. PS: Lovely, damned if you do dirty, damned if you do decent. What's a brother got to do to get some respect? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:06:00 - [104] To keep us all on the same page I've upload this bidding spreadsheet. The simple use of this sheet is sort all bidders by "current bid" and then by "bid order". Current bid always wins but where any current bid equals one another, bid order takes precedence. It also includes a simple average function so that people can readily see the final results. Regarding the bids from "Starlancers". That is pvp corporate brothers. One only needs to look at my "other" main (HawkBlade) to see this to be so. That being said, I appreciate their support, but I see no good reason to allow them to schadenfreude their bids. I see it as anti-competitive and, as the bond issuer, if I wish to pay out more than I have to I see no reason for someone to complain. Other than pure idiocy or rampant trolling. Also, it should be disclosed that Dylythium is a shareholder. This means that he is also one of the 5 lock down monitors. The alt with which he has the share is also a director in the corporation. Again, a reason to not let such low bids stand. So now you've met two directors and two of the lock down monitors. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Leon Angeal	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:20:00 - [105] I would like to add on my offer that I am willing to drop to 2% if the circumstances arise, naturally i would prefer staying as high as possible though
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:37:00 - [106] Ah, great, I'm on the list. I'm not a lemming after all. Phew. Oh, just one other thing: I think your reply to my reply to your comments on my comments might have got eaten by the forum thread monster. I'm guessing this simply because if someone in an IPO thread didn't respond to your comments, they'd be roasted ten ways and served with forum fries. So I guess the forumz broke, lolz.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.17 23:44:00 - [107] Originally by: Mike'P AI'm guessing this simply because if someone in an IPO thread didn't respond to your comments, they'd be roasted ten ways and served with forum fries. Wrong but the jab is appreciated for what it is worth. While some people think I can't do anything but fight they are wrong. Every post, every troll, and every flame I've ever done was by pure choice. Not because someone poked me but because I felt like responding. Thus, I read what you posted, realized that you are somehow thinking you are besting me and decided that correcting your mis-perception is really not worth my time nor appropriate (for me) in this venue. Truly there were other people more deserving of my attention and responses than you were. But here, I've responded to you. I hope that all is once again right in your world. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
CornerStoner	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:33:00 - [108] 1 @ 4%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:39:00 - [109] Originally by: CornerStoner 1 @ 4% Updated. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.18 00:42:00 - [110] Thanks Shar for responding to none of the points raised in my substantive post, as opposed to flippantly responding to the singular point in my non-substantive post - and trying to do so in such a way as to make me sound needy (bwahaha) - although let's not forget that you started this thread looking for our money to finance your wholly unspecified business activities in regard to this bond. My actual point via all this posting is to illustrate the kind of hostility that you help generate to any IPO or Bond that comes into the forum. The only thing that is different with this bond is that it seems that Shadarle is on vacation, and you're on the other side of the fence this time. I could not personally give a rats rear whether you respond to my posts - I most certainly do not look to the forum regulars in any forum for approbation. Howevever, if you are part of the cabal pouring napalm over new players innocent questions and IPOs, I feel it only fair you should get some of the same. I re-iterate: a low interest rate implies low risk which implies that some minimal disclosure of your business plan would have a low risk against that business plan succeeding. If your assurances to us at this low interest rate are that by not disclosing roughly what you are doing, you guarantee your plan succeeding - well, that doesn't pass the Shar filter from previous threads I've seen you participate on this forum. If you're saying "just trust me, for I am Shar" then say so and be done with it. [Disclosure: I am personally investing a disposable amount of ISK in this venture, and my willingness to invest should not be taken as any more endorsement than my putting a dollar into a slot machine]. For the record, I find you mostly non-objectionable too.

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 01:15:00 - [111] Originally by: Mike'P if your assurances to us at this low interest rate are that by not disclosing roughly what you are doing, you guarantee your plan succeeding - well, that doesn't pass the Shar filter from previous threads I've seen you participate on this forum. If you're saying "just trust me, for I am Shar" then say so and be done with it. And here is another point of fact that you have somehow misconstrued. The first question(s) I always ask is not about the business plan(s). I leave that to others actually. I delve directly into the trust issues. I'm not saying I'm always pleasant nor am I against critical review being done against myself. However I am against a few of you actually thinking you are doing to me what I've done to others when you are all way off my usual target. If you want to "Shar" this ipo then it is my background you'd be grilling/attacking. However I have, In many ipo's, totally recognized the need to hold operational details close to the chest. Of course the truth is that you can not successfully troll my background so you are implementing the Jade Constantine level of reading comprehension imho. You keep repeating the same question over and over again and refusing to acknowledge that the answer has been given to you. If you don't want me to be dismissive of you: Then dialogue instead of diatribe. This is not a gtfo my thread, just notice that if you wish for me to respond the standards for continued discourse have been set. Yes, it is a low interest rate, get over it. The market can accept or refuse. Whinage about it is just that. (Repeated posts whining about it are a bit ott but hey some people.) No, the plan is not going to be made public, again get over it. You've expressed your concerns over that and refuse to accept any alternative like the good word of a trusted 3rd party. I can not, and will not, accommodate you any further. One of us must bend in our demands and I've made no demands of you. Re: our money, I'm not asking any to kiss my arse but I'm not going to kiss yours to get it. Telling you so doesn't seem to work so, quite simply, do you wish to retract your bid? I don't care one way or another. And in closing, yes. I am Shar and I say it is so. If you don't like it you may retract your bid, you may attack my credibility if you like, however what you are not getting is anything more than what I've already offered. You've wasted enough of my time. PS: What? Want me to apologize for shooting down your alt's scam ipo or something? Puhleez. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.18 02:16:00 - [112] Oh Shar, I misconstrue nothing - I learn by reading and thinking, and most certainly not be someone invoking the Websters dictionary defence (you need to make it the OED to gain any credibility in my eyes). The basic issue with this bond is trust - you have now said 'trust me for I am Shar', so fair enough. But put this on the front page and be done with it. I notice you've already had to revise the title to reflect it being a 'low interest' bond, so we didn't even start with full disclosure on the basics and you've admitted that by revising the title. So where does that leave us ? If you do not trust the forum with an inkling of your business plan for this paltry interest rate then you are milking your reputation - which in my world makes your stated intent that this bond is about 'how one should do things' no more than the same aggressive rhetoric that is so freely used to shoot down honest people trying to find their way in the market via these forums who don't have a reputation to milk. The other interpretation of all of this is 'like it or lump it' - which is just what you've just posted in lieu of a response to my point. So, it seems that this is not, therefore, the ideal way to handle a bond issue, because all we have to go on is your reputation - which I would probably more attack with the Jeremy Paxman style of questioning than whatever this Constantine person is you're talking about. You can be as aggressive in your replies as you want - and you're now starting to sound like Sir Doom, my particular favourite being this snippet:- Quote: If you don't like it you may retract your bid, you may attack my credibility if you like, however what you are not getting is anything more than what I've already offered. You've wasted enough of my time. Shar, you're probably a regular kinda guy - just don't get uptight and instead get constructive when replying to people's posts on the forum. [Disclosure: I am personally investing a disposable amount of ISK in this venture, and my willingness to invest should not be taken as any more endorsement than my putting a dollar into a slot machine]. PS: Shot down my ALTs IPO ? Bwahaha - my alt's can barely walk let alone do any maths.
Essque Starlancers	Posted - 2008.09.18 02:20:00 - [113] Originally by: Shar Tegral That being said, I appreciate their support, but I see no good reason to allow them to schadenfreude their bids. I see it as anti-competitive and, as the bond issuer, if I wish to pay out more than I have to I see no reason for someone to complain. Awww! No grenades? The wombats are restless.
Amraphel	Posted - 2008.09.18 03:39:00 - [114] I would like to place a bid for 2 shares (1bil) at 3.9% each. Since I'm short on active EVE playing time nowadays, even 3.9% is better than 0% sitting in my wallet or other relatively safe options. And don't let the corp fool you, I'm not an alt (see standings). I'm just comfortable where I am and prefer to join communities via less public channels that don't broadcast associations as loudly as corp membership. Fan of privacy, I guess. That being said, I understand if you don't consider the available information enough to believe I'm not an alt and subsequently decline the bid.
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.09.18 10:14:00 - [115] 1 bond @ 3,5%
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.09.18 11:30:00 - [116] Congratulations on your recovery Shar. I must say I am pleasantly surprised. I will take 2 bonds at 3% interest.
Leon Angeal	Posted - 2008.09.18 11:51:00 - [117] Originally by: Leon Angeal I would like to add on my offer that I am willing to drop to 2% if the circumstances arise, naturally i would prefer staying as high as possible though Can you please confirm that your aware that im willing to drop to a minimum of 2%. Just seeking confirmation, as paranoid that i am
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 13:01:00 - [118] Originally by: Mike'P I notice you've already had to revise the title to reflect it being a 'low interest' bond, so we didn't even start with full disclosure on the basics and you've admitted that by revising the title. So where does that leave us ? It leaves you out. Period. I did full disclosure in the documentation, right up front, yet you want to play revisionism on stuff that doesn't even have an edit mark. I think I've helped to set new standards on disclosure and investor information. I've also made sure that the kind of expected behavior, under grilling, is also displayed. (Snarky is not bad for an ipo though some are trying to make it so.) Where you are left, after all of this, I could not care. So, instead of letting you continue to drag this thread further and further off topic into useless non-issues, consider yourself on, and being, ignore(d). To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 13:12:00 - [119] Investor spreadsheet updated with new bids. Therein you can see also that Leon has set his bid to go as low as 2%. The only questionable bidder at this time is Nadarius Chrome as he's specified that there is a point where he would bow out but it is unclear what that point is. I guess I'll just have to eve mail and ask for clarification. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Amraphel	Posted - 2008.09.18 13:59:00 - [120] Looking at the investor list, I noticed that I'm only listed once even though my bid was for 2 shares. I'm assuming that each line in the spreadsheet represents a bond slot. Is there something I'm missing?

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 14:12:00 - [121] Originally by: Amraphel Is there something I'm missing? Not you, me. I forgot to put you in twice. Thnx. Spreadsheet updated, again. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Sixtus	Posted - 2008.09.18 18:12:00 - [122] both Bonds 3.8%
Klaus Hauptmann Ihatalo Cartel Academy Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.18 19:21:00 - [123] 2 bonds at 3.5%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:15:00 - [124] Updated to reflect recent bids and one in game bid. (Spreadsheet also updated as well). To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:53:00 - [125] Originally by: Shar Tegral It leaves you out. Period. Hmm, Shar just kicked me out of his bond. Interesting. Anyway, as I said, I'm not going to get grumpy. I'll not retract my bid, as I've got no position to set up here. I firmly believe that Shar has not lived up to his professed goal of showing us how it should be done, and I think this 'toys, leave pram, meet pavement' attitude showcases this. So, as I said a few posts ago, 1 bond at 500 mill, willing to go with it all the way down to 2% to save you administrative annoyance. Thankyou for playing.
Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:45:00 - [126] Originally by: Shar Tegral Investor spreadsheet updated with new bids. Therein you can see also that Leon has set his bid to go as low as 2%. The only questionable bidder at this time is Nadarius Chrome as he's specified that there is a point where he would bow out but it is unclear what that point is. I guess I'll just have to eve mail and ask for clarification. Originally by: Nadarius Chrome That said, I will tender for 2 (1bn) at 4%. It doesn't look like there's much chance of anyone offering less than 4%, and 1bn is an amount I can risk. I too will stipulate that I don't want to invest if the rate falls below a certain point, but my point is 4%. If you prefer not to accept my offer with that condition then you can freely turn it down, no hard feelings. Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was stating that if the effective rate drops below 4% i'll bow out.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:46:00 - [127] Thank you for your bid but as I said, and reserved the right to do, no thank you. You've stated your opinions, repeatedly, and I'm sure that many appreciate them. Is there any other business you have that pertains to this thread? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.18 21:49:00 - [128] Originally by: Nadarius Chrome Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was stating that if the effective rate drops below 4% i'll bow out. It was unclear to me... besides the point is academic. Thank you for your interest. I'm sure if you rush you might be able to bid for the remaining scraps of Arthur Dark's IPO. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.19 03:08:00 - [129] Shar is good people, even if he has grown less angry and mean and rude in his old age! The CEO has as much right to sell to who he wants as the investors have to invest in who they want. All that said, I am shocked if anyone invests in an IPO for such a tiny amount. But hey, desperate people in search of a little more money do desperate things. Good luck Shar baby! Just one thing, change your name already, so people stop confusing us and I clearly am cooler and deserve all variations of my name... including Shar (since people can't seem to see I should be called Shad, not Shar).
Ricdic Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:18:00 - [130] If one of you had innies and the other had outies you would make the perfect couple

Nadarius Chrome Celestial Horizon Corp. Celestial Industrial Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:21:00 - [131] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Nadarius Chrome Sorry if I wasn't clear, but I was stating that if the effective rate drops below 4% i'll bow out. It was unclear to me... besides the point is academic. Thank you for your interest. I'm sure if you rush you might be able to bid for the remaining scraps of Arthur Dark's IPO. I've tried to stay out of the heated discussion in this thread, taking part only to make an offer, but now you're just trying to turn people against you. Successfully in my case.
Taikun Gallente 20th Legion Southern Cross Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:30:00 - [132] Edited by: Taikun on 19/09/2008 13:30:26 Originally by: Nadarius Chrome I've tried to stay out of the heated discussion in this thread It might help you in your objective if you don't bother post in the thread. Taikun A criminal is a person with predatory instincts who has not sufficient capital to form a corporation.
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.19 13:41:00 - [133] I'd like to revise both my bids to 3.7%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.19 18:10:00 - [134] Originally by: Nadarius Chrome I've tried to stay out of the heated discussion in this thread, taking part only to make an offer, but now you're just trying to turn people against you. Successfully in my case. Actually, I was sincere in my statement. I'll admit I was attempting tongue in cheek with the "scraps" comment but I thought it funny & pertinent at the time. >shrugs< You win some, you lose some. Originally by: Jaeger Orlofsson I'd like to revise both my bids to 3.7% Updated, and spreadsheet updated. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.09.19 18:48:00 - [135] Edited by: YouGotRipped on 19/09/2008 18:51:22 Originally by: Shadarle All that said, I am shocked if anyone invests in an IPO for such a tiny amount. But hey, desperate people in search of a little more money do desperate things. lol, you're hopeless. How come none of the MD regulars are willing to give Shar a helping hand? Is the return all you think about?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.19 18:58:00 - [136] Originally by: YouGotRipped lol, you're hopeless. I've been over the list and I am shocked indeed. How come none of the MD regulars are willing to give Shar a helping hand? Is the return all you think about? LOL, yes. That is all that they think about. Their prerogative as well. The flipside is that they'd rather gamble on something better coming along later that makes the loss from waiting that much longer. All is fair... ... To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:45:00 - [137] Posting ingame bid by Potsnack. 2 Bonds as low as 2%. Lists and spreadsheet updated.
Leon Angeal	Posted - 2008.09.19 21:57:00 - [138] Could you please clarify when you want to recieve the money? I.e Do you want me to send it you now, or wait until the auction ends?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.19 22:03:00 - [139] Edited by: Shar Tegral on 19/09/2008 22:03:00 Originally by: Leon Angeal Could you please clarify when you want to recieve the money? I.e Do you want me to send it you now, or wait until the auction ends? I don't mind receiving it now, as you can see I'm tracking that too, but you can wait as well. The only time it'll become a problem, me thinks, is after the auction. So, if you wish to send in the isk, thanks. Nice having the reservations rsvp'd. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Potsnack	Posted - 2008.09.19 22:12:00 - [140] Confirming the ingame bid. I've had financial dealings with Shar Tegral in the past and he is one of very few I would trust in Eve these days. I wish him, and the other investors, all the very best with this new venture. Regards Pot

Grustar	Posted - 2008.09.19 23:45:00 - [141] Rebidding for 1 bond at 3.5%
Mephistocles Red Frog Investments Blue Sky Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.20 00:15:00 - [142] I'd like to revise my bid for 2 bonds at 3.8%, please.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 05:08:00 - [143] Updated the first post with new bids and the spreadsheet. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
EBANK Ricdic Eve-Tech Savings n Loans	Posted - 2008.09.20 06:00:00 - [144] 4% is below the threshold for EBANK. Our absolute minimum for public investments is 5%. Plus this being an auction means it's likely to end up around the 3% mark if not at 2%. EBANK has limits because it has a requirement to both pay out a certain amount (approx 2.5%) plus retain cash on hand for withdrawals so 5% is a healthy level. That was our only reason for not investing. As to me personally, my personal funds are all tied up.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 20:13:00 - [145] Originally by: EBANK Ricdic That was our only reason for not investing. As to me personally, my personal funds are all tied up. There is always next round of course. Also I want to add that Leon has put paid on his bid. (Didn't want him worrying about that.) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.09.20 20:24:00 - [146] I will bid on 1 bond (500 million ISK) at 3.8%
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 20:37:00 - [147] Originally by: MilowFV I will bid on 1 bond (500 million ISK) at 3.8% Updated (bids and spreadsheet) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.20 20:54:00 - [148] Mike P looks lonely on the "Removed from Bidding" list. Shar... Your momma so...ph*********d.... ^^Please consider the above as my bid to be on the "Removed from Bidding" list. --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 21:39:00 - [149] Originally by: Treelox Shar... Your momma so...ph********d.... Your momma is so fat she's on both sides of the gate. To Shar -verb*: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.20 21:59:00 - [150] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Treelox Shar... Your momma so...ph*********d.... Your momma is so fat she's on both sides of the gate. of most of my family this would be true, sadly not true of my mother and i still havent made the list what do I have to do wardec the higher truth :P --

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 22:56:00 - [151] Okay. My momma so fat, a carrier tried to dock... ...and succeeded. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:05:00 - [152] This thread should be locked, all this trolling is unconstructive! "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:23:00 - [153] Originally by: Ji Sama This thread should be locked, all this trolling is unconstructive! What purpose would getting this thread locked serve I wonder? To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:25:00 - [154] Originally by: Shar Tegral Okay. My momma so fat, a carrier tried to dock... ...and succeeded. I heard your momma so fat she can dock a titan..... :P --
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:26:00 - [155] Originally by: Ji Sama This thread should be locked, all this trolling is unconstructive! trolling hell, this isnt trolling, this is constructive thread bumping for a "friend" so he can get on with his plans for universal domination --
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:39:00 - [156] Originally by: Treelox Originally by: Ji Sama This thread should be locked, all this trolling is unconstructive! trolling hell, this isnt trolling, this is constructive thread bumping for a "friend" so he can get on with his plans for universal domination :D soz shar i am teh ebil ones!!!! "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
Shadarle	Posted - 2008.09.21 02:46:00 - [157] Originally by: YouGotRipped Edited by: YouGotRipped on 19/09/2008 18:56:38 Originally by: Shadarle All that said, I am shocked if anyone invests in an IPO for such a tiny amount. But hey, desperate people in search of a little more money do desperate things. lol, you're hopeless. I've been over the investors list and I am shocked indeed. How come none of the MD regulars are willing to give Shar a helping hand? Is the return all you think about? Yes, return is all I think about if it's below a certain amount. I don't invest in E-Bank because it is too low a return. I won't invest in this for the same reason. When you have a lot of money, getting 3% on 1-2 bil of it isn't even worth the time for the slight risk involved. Better to have the few bil in my wallet incase I want to buy a set of titan bpo's or some such. A few bil here and a few bil there, eventually it will add up to some real money.
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.21 04:58:00 - [158] Originally by: Treelox This post has been cleared of inappropriate content. Regards, The EVE Online Moderation team So Shar, do I make the list now, that I have been listed as public enemy #1 by CCP 3 times in one thread? --
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.21 05:10:00 - [159] Originally by: Treelox So Shar, do I make the list now, that I have been listed as public enemy #1 by CCP 3 times in one thread? Well I'm bewildered, if it was banter and it is moderated, does that count? Especially since they left the real trolling in place? >sigh< To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ray McCormack hirr	Posted - 2008.09.21 05:15:00 - [160] Originally by: Treelox So Shar, do I make the list now, that I have been listed as public enemy #1 by CCP 3 times in one thread? Pfft, you've a lot to learn. My post was deleted entirely, erased from the human consciousness; not merely moderated in a pretty orange colour. [WTS] Tech II Component BPO Sets

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.22 05:56:00 - [161] Originally by: Treelox So Shar, do I make the list now, that I have been listed as public enemy #1 by CCP 3 times in one thread? Originally by: Ray McCormack Pfft, you've a lot to learn. My post was deleted entirely, erased from the human consciousness; not merely moderated in a pretty orange colour. I'm beginning to know you feel. (Compare now you see it & now you don't.) That being said, less than six (6) hours left on the bidding portion of the ipo. Snipering may or may not be a good idea as I seem to be unique in my acceptance of any bids. Just thought you should know if you are trying it. =) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.22 07:28:00 - [162] I'll lower my bid to 3.6% if I may.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.22 08:18:00 - [163] Originally by: Jackie Fisher I'll lower my bid to 3.6% if I may. Updated, lists and spreadsheet. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.22 11:09:00 - [164] Auction has come to a close. The list of bidders stands as last updated. The spreadsheets denotes those who have paid and those who have not. Twenty four (24) hours will pass while winning bidders deposit the isks for their position. After that time those bonds will be optioned to those who bid but did not win or any left over bond will simply be unavailable until the next deposit cycle. Only one person deposited isk that may have to be returned and I will do so after all winners have paid for their bonds. (Thus leaving him his chance to pick up the one bond he bid for.) To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.09.22 13:12:00 - [165] Isk sent
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.09.22 15:06:00 - [166] ISK sent.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.09.22 15:28:00 - [167] isk sent
Finedele Marquie-X Corp Majesta Empire	Posted - 2008.09.23 17:05:00 - [168] am i right when i assume only the red marked bidders have not send their isk in time?
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.23 17:34:00 - [169] Originally by: Finedele am i right when i assume only the red marked bidders have not send their isk in time? Yes. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.23 23:03:00 - [170] Updated investor list and spreadsheet. The order of bidders is now Sixtus and Amraphel. Sixtus has already paid for his so I'll assume he wants it, though he can refuse. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

Klaus Hauptmann Ihatalo Cartel Academy Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.24 01:02:00 - [171] damn, Shar am I too late for this? Long working day so I missed the announcement....
Amraphel	Posted - 2008.09.24 03:19:00 - [172] Originally by: Shar Tegral Updated investor list and spreadsheet. The order of bidders is now Sixtus and Amraphel. Sixtus has already paid for his so I'll assume he wants it, though he can refuse. Payment sent for one bond. If Sixtus declines and my second bond bid moves up in the queue I will honour that bid as well.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.24 07:26:00 - [173] Originally by: Klaus Hauptmann damn, Shar am I too late for this? Long working day so I missed the announcement.... Sorry about that mate, if you had gotten back in before the others had put money down on the spot you opened up (even by accident) then it would not have been any trouble. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Lord Zoran House of Tempers	Posted - 2008.09.24 10:21:00 - [174] sry to be negative but i would not trust shar with any of my isk.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.24 15:29:00 - [175] Originally by: Lord Zoran sry to be negative but i would not trust shar with any of my isk. No need to be sorry. I can not only accept your position and belief but I'm honestly curious as to why you may think this. I'd personally appreciate it very much if you would tell us why you wouldn't trust me. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Sixtus	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:12:00 - [176] Of course I will be glad to get also the second Bond. Sorry Amraphel.
Klaus Hauptmann Ihatalo Cartel Academy Ihatalo Cartel	Posted - 2008.09.24 23:59:00 - [177] Originally by: Shar Tegral Originally by: Klaus Hauptmann damn, Shar am I too late for this? Long working day so I missed the announcement.... Sorry about that mate, if you had gotten back in before the others had put money down on the spot you opened up (even by accident) then it would not have been any trouble. No worries
Grozen Caldari Bulgarian Experienced Crackers Circle-Of-Two	Posted - 2008.09.25 12:51:00 - [178] Edited by: Grozen on 25/09/2008 12:51:34 Wow 6pages(including alot of trolls) for topic posted by trusted guy and pro!I'm starting to think i'm better of runing my bizness only with my money knowledge is power
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.25 12:57:00 - [179] Originally by: Grozen Wow 6pages(including alot of trolls) for topic posted by trusted guy and pro!I'm starting to think i'm better of runing my bizness only with my money While "trusted" Shar also has earned himself a few "enemies" in his time for his frank non sugar coated way of telling people the way he percieves the truth. I for one appreciate his postings. TL:DR version = Shar is an equal opportunity A-Hole, so people thought to get revenge here. --
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:56:00 - [180] Shar fails big time, 12B is pennies, he should be able to launch a 100B ipo or something with his so called rep, but he has to fight a troll battle to raise 12B rofl.. i think all we can use shar for is how to whine about cancer and a daughter he also failed on! (me thinks perhaps his failure irl has something to do with his attitude and failure in EVE!) "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"

Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:59:00 - [181] taikun is that you? --
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.09.25 17:32:00 - [182] Originally by: Ji Sama EDIT: no reason to kick an obesse white trailor trashing dude that fails in eve and irl! I believe that the impact of your attempt at insult was greatly reduced by your delivery. (It occurs to me that comedy & insult share this trait: much of the impact is in the delivery.) Firefox has a built-in spell checker which, while not a complete solution to your problems, would help. And before some points out the error of my "grammar/spelling trolling ITT", I'd like to emphasize that I'm not merely criticizing/mocking the troll, but actually trying to help him improve (in a meta way). If we're going to have trolls, can't we at least have lucid trolls? MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Treelox Amarr Market Jihadist Revolutionary Party	Posted - 2008.09.25 17:41:00 - [183] Originally by: Ji Sama Edited by: Ji Sama on 25/09/2008 17:11:45 EDIT: no reason to kick an obesse white trailor trashing dude that fails in eve and irl! I fail to see how you edited statement is really any better than your previous version --
Ji Sama Caldari Department of Defence	Posted - 2008.09.25 18:01:00 - [184] Edited by: Ji Sama on 25/09/2008 18:01:30 i speak 5 languages and i can spell obese, its called a typo, and i aint about to waste more time than i have to. just wanted to point out that there were a reason that shar fails IRL and in EVE.... now leave me alone so i can cry out all over the interwebs how sad i am about not being there for my children :D oh wait, i am there for them, shit man, then let me whine about some desease i have, oh shit im all healthy, let me whine about my lack of ISK, oh shit me, i have all the ISK i need.! EDIT; can see i typed trailer different aswell, live with it! "the majority of men has been dealt cards to a game they do not know how to play"
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.09.25 18:44:00 - [185] Now that you're funded (right?) I presume you're going to put your plan in motion. Do you intend to reveal to the investors what the plan is? Do you intend at some point in the future to reveal publicly what the plan is/was? (Editorial note: my previous post seems to have mysteriously disappeared, along with at least one other poster's. At least we have Eve-Search to show us what really was written.) MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.09.26 01:25:00 - [186] MDD: What is the plan? Simple, I know have 12 billion isk in an reserve isk fund. Like many traders/market people I generally leverage as much isk as I can so that I can be in a position to profit no matter which way the market moves. That being said I recently arranged the early closure of a 9 billion eBank loan that I did not agree with. Doing so made me realize that I simply don't keep enough liquid isk for various activities. So, for a small percentage rate there is a liquid fund for me to have access to in case I decide it is necessary. Now, the conditions on usage (of course) are that the funds have to be readily available every 90 days. Well not all of them I'm suspecting but at least 50% of the funds. Thus I have 60 - 75 days where I can actively use the funds and then start preparing for the next deposit cycle. In essence, I'm a small 12 billion eBank competitor. Very small, not very competitive. But there it is... ... Ji: Simply, I'm going to pray for you. Someone needs to do something to keep you from being a total waste as a human being. I figure that between the two of us someone should be concerned about that. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Mike'P	Posted - 2008.09.26 13:08:00 - [187] Hi guys, Quoting myself, which I know is bad form.... Originally by: Mike'P As I understand it, a business raises funds for a specific activity, not just to put more in the pot knowing that at some point in the future, one of its profit centres will be able to repay the loan. I'm not saying that's what you're doing - I'm just saying that we can't tell if you're not. My real point is that you wouldn't tolerate this approach from someone else Looks like I was closer to guessing the plan than we thought... ah well, good luck mate - hope the ripples of that 12B bring some profits to those of us on the economic periphery.
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.09.26 16:35:00 - [188] Edited by: MailDeadDrop on 26/09/2008 16:35:58 I suppose I should have re-read the offering before asking that last question, to wit: Originally by: Shar Tegral The Plan: Withheld Speculate all you wish but if you do your research I am consistent with the fact that I do not specifically discuss the purpose of any bond I issue. Withholding this information is, as always, as much personal choice & style as it is in my opinion prudent. My plans are not totally subject to interuption, not very much at all, however I prefer not to tempt fate, or other Eve players, as well. You made it clear that you had no intentions to discuss the plan with anyone at any time, so I'm sorry to have asked what should have been a silly question. But you did reply and provide an answer, and I find myself a little bit deflated. You have a reputation of being successful, and I was hoping to learn from your plan. To learn that this bond was simply a reserve ISK fund for your regular activities, and not something "new", certainly wasn't my expectation (but I have no one to blame but myself for that expectation). Edit: WTF? Why am I back to being an exclamation point? MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.03 10:27:00 - [189] To avoid any clamoring, yesterday I issued the first loan payment. If you recall payments are supposed to be "in advance" of any month instead of the usual "arrears". However with the fund just starting I thought it reasonable to give a period of 1 - 2 weeks to have the funds generating revenue. I had wanted to get the payment out on the 1st but missed that window by a day. (Work, bah.) The November payment, due October 15th, is already secured as well. Might pay that out early might not. Mind you being that the fund started on the 22nd of September, instead of the 15th, the first payment was prorated. This was to bring the payment schedule in line with my stated intentions. To make sure that each depositor received his/her full entitlement the monthly interest rate (3.6) was converted to a daily rate. (3.6%12 months/365 days) This resulted in a first payment of 13,610,958.90 isk per CD. November's payment will be 17,753,424.66 per cd and December's payment will be 17,161,643.84 per CD. (The December time span is actually 30 days long, not 31.) Starting on November 15th any depositor may inform me of their intention to withdraw. The deadline for withdrawal is December 1st when, if necessary, any openings will be made available to the public at large. That auction will last till the 8th of December. The lee time between the 8th and the 15th will allow for any irregularities if they should arise. As to the added posts to this thread: The plan disclosure I gave was an obvious one. This financial project is plainly setup to be re-occurring. Thought the initials CD would make that more clear. As to what I'm doing to generate the monthly interest payments; a) I'd be a fool to say what it is; b) I'd be a fool to restrict myself to one or two specific activities. The specific intent behind raising funds via a "loan" mechanism is to remain fluid in profit mechanism. If I had decided to do an ipo for a specific plan I would be obligated to inform shareholders of any deviation. Even if that deviation would bring in better returns there would always be someone pointing a finger and crying foul. (Middle finger usually.) So, I have neither the patience or intent of providing my competition tips on what activities to cultivate nor placing myself in a position of having to deal with a bunch of whiny ne'er do wells who have nothing better to do than to chop at the knees of men better than they. Two things to remember: firstly this is a game and secondly this is the internet. Added together what you commonly have is a bunch of no life losers who make up the lack of getting laid by trying to screw up someone else's day. To Shar -verb*: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jackie Fisher Galactic Defence Consortium	Posted - 2008.10.03 13:55:00 - [190] Confirming ISKies received.

Jaeger Orlofsson VentureCorp Imperial Republic Of the North	Posted - 2008.10.03 14:09:00 - [191] Isk received with thanks :)
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.10.03 15:19:00 - [192] Originally by: Shar Tegral If you recall payments are supposed to be "in advance" of any month instead of the usual "arrears". ... (The December time span is actually 30 days long, not 31.) Huh? I've given this some thought, and I think I/m confused by the use of "month-name payment". And if it is confusing me, then there's a chance it is confusing others, too. May I make a stab at clarifying? "The interest-earning period runs from the 15th of one month through the 14th of the following month. The payment for the interest earned is due on the first day of the period. So the payment due on October 15th covers a period which is 31 days long, while the payment due on November 15th covers a period which is 30 days long." Originally by: Shar Tegral Two things to remember: firstly this is a game and secondly this is the internet. Added together what you commonly have is a bunch of no life losers who make up the lack of getting laid by trying to screw up someone else's day. I genuinely hope you did not intend for that to apply to me. MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching
Sixtus	Posted - 2008.10.03 15:36:00 - [193] Payment confirmed.
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:26:00 - [194] I though the payment was going to be listed as a player donation, in which case I don't think I saw it post to my journal. If it isn't list as a player donation could you maybe tell me what to check under. If it should be a player donation then I think I was missed.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:32:00 - [195] It was most likely listed as a corporate withdrawal/transfer and listed by my corp name as I transferred the funds directly from a corporate wallet. While I have kept my full api key the same, so that Kazuo can still monitor/audit, I prefer doing such transactions via the corporate wallet so that Athre (and others) can readily review any activity I engage in. (I like having transparency and frankness as the "norm" wherever I'm most comfortable.)
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.10.04 19:20:00 - [196] Not that its needed but anywho - I have reviewed the Prorated October dividends and am satisfied they are complete.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.10.12 23:05:00 - [197] CD Payment was for the period Oct 16th to November 15th. Each CD returned 17,753,424.66 isk for this period. This was a few days early but I just wanted to get it over with early. Helps to avoid any absentmindedness on my part (which actually does happen!). Next CD payment should be issued by November 15th and will be 17,161,643.84 isk. November 15th is also when I will be accepting eve mails from people who do not intend to automatically rollover their CD's for the next period. Thank you and have a good month or so. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.11.13 05:28:00 - [198] Okay, just issued the final CD interest payment on the 90 day cycle. In case anyone forgot, interest payments where in front of the monthly cycle. At this time I've already received close out notification from 1 person. Post here or via evemail if you wish to close out your CD or continue with another 90 days. (Essentially rolling over). Notification deadline is December 1st. (Do try to notify early as I will be going away for Thanksgiving so timing might be a bit tight here.) At that time open CD blocks, that I make available, will be open for new bidding/owners. The end of that re-auction will be December 14th. Upon December 14th all close outs will be repaid their principal deposit and all new winners will be required to hand in their deposit. Oh, I really should come up with an early withdrawal clause. Anyone have any ideas? I have a new clone, her skill points are quite low but i forsee vast potential. Born at 05:56 18-Oct-08, weighing 7 lbs 12 oz, and was named Lara Florence. Mother & baby doing well - Dylythium
Sixtus	Posted - 2008.11.14 18:44:00 - [199] Final payment confirmed. Many thanks for this. I will be glad to continue with Shar Tegral another 90 days.
MilowFV Echo Heavy Industries	Posted - 2008.11.15 03:33:00 - [200] Can just roll my account over for an additional 90 days. Thanks

YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2008.11.15 21:58:00 - [201] I will be taking my leave in order to pursue personal projects before finally entering hibernation. Perhaps there is someone among the current investors that will want to to occupy the vacant slot?
Athre Minmatar The Higher Standard	Posted - 2008.12.02 00:03:00 - [202] Bond holders, please be advised an update is forth coming.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.02 23:04:00 - [203] Originally by: Athre Bond holders, please be advised an update is forth coming. Sorry folks, asked Athre to post this last night as I intended to update after I got back. Last night ran long (and I'm old) and I've been swamped all day. I'm trying to draft up my thoughts and I'll be posting sometime tonight. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.03 01:01:00 - [204] Announcement of plan to post followed by confirmation of announcement of plan to post
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.03 02:47:00 - [205] Okay, the first 90 day cycle is coming to completion. Report: - There is currently 7 billion of the 11 billion raised available in liquid isk form. - When the funds are liquid and there is no current purpose for them it is deposited into an eBank savings account. (Have 12 billion capacity there.) - Uses for funds have varied from Courier Contract Collateral, allowing me to stock up inventory for months in advance, as well as a few other speculation and/or sundry activities. Three (3) people have chosen to cash out (for a total of 2 billion). So there are 6 CD's that are available for purchase this time around. People may bid on these under the same rules as before: - No Alts. - 4% per month is starting position, buyout is 2% per month, bid increments are 0.1%. - No more than 2 CD's per person. I do reserve the right to refuse service to anyone for any reason. Disclosure of my reasons is optional. Bidding may commence now and will conclude on December 10th at Downtime. PS: Ric, if you've got nothing to say... say nothing. You are not as cute as you think you are. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.03 03:08:00 - [206] I forgot to add this; I wound up feeling really uncomfortable about the fact that there is no early withdrawal policy in this bond. Didn't like having to tell one investor no but rules are rules and one doesn't change up in mid process. That being said I'm proposing this early withdrawal policy: Depending on available funds early withdrawal is possible (at my discretion) however doing so forfeits all interest accrued for the 90 day period in progress. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Ricdics Tleilex Developments	Posted - 2008.12.03 03:58:00 - [207] Originally by: Shar Tegral PS: Ric, if you've got nothing to say... say nothing. You are not as cute as you think you are.[/justify] You talk tough but I know you love it Shar
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.05 23:27:00 - [208] I've thought about it over the past couple of days and I've decided to not sell any more options. This will also be the last 90 day cycle. This will be the last update for this bond/thread. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Jaarlax Ratty Corp PLC Confederation of Independent Corporations	Posted - 2008.12.06 08:47:00 - [209] As you do these CD pretty regular, perhaps it might be worth setting up an ingame mailing list for notifications. I always miss out as they all tend to be sold by the time i get into MD lol
Feta Solamnia	Posted - 2008.12.06 11:56:00 - [210] Posting to say it's always nice to see an old face in these forums. Did you give up reporting? Originally by: Oveur I have access to all market data. Believe me, we have not reached anything close to deflation yet.

Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.06 19:48:00 - [211] Paying out the non-recurring CD's today. Future reporting will be via eve-mail where I don't have an outside forum to post details. (So yes, I'm not going to be reporting here anymore.) Jaar: You silly git. You could just evemail me. I never refuse old friends. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.
Shar Tegral	Posted - 2008.12.06 19:49:00 - [212] This is the official "please lock this thread" since using report to make such a request is not enough. To Shar -verb: 1 - To say what you mean. 2 - To say what it means. 3 - To say something mean.

CCP Applebabe	Posted - 2008.12.07 03:03:00 - [213] Thread is locked as OP requested. Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang



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