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Is scamming really supported by CCP?

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Feilamya Minmatar 24th Imperial Crusade	Posted - 2008.09.18 17:03:00 - [31] Some people (like the op) really shouldn't play games. They don't get the concept of a game into their head, and they are clearly unable to distinguish between a game and real life. Sadly, products such as WoW have made many of those non-gamers get into gaming in the last couple of years. Threads like this are the result.
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.18 17:07:00 - [32] When I load up Team Fortress 2 and go to play online, people are going to shoot at me. No matter what class I choose, where I choose to hide...at some point people are going to come after me and try to blow me up and take me down without my consent. If I load up Company of Heroes, people are going to run around trying to blow up my shit and otherwise kill me. If I start up Red orchestra and go online then, you guessed it, other people are going to shoot me. Guess what? Just because EVE is an MMO does NOT make it ANY different in this respect from the above games. EVE is not a PVE MMO, EVE is a PVP MMO where people can and will do whatever the hell they want for the sake of advancing their own agendas. Real life ethics about scamming have no place in EVE for the same reason that I don't mind shooting people in the face or blowing them up with 105mm howitzer shells in other games. Originally by: Catharacta My CNR runs on salvager tears.
Superfailsauce Neo Spartans	Posted - 2008.09.18 18:09:00 - [33] If you have more ISK than sense there are many people out there to restore the balance. ------- Larkonis' Alt, main got banned.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.18 18:10:00 - [34] Originally by: Vibora BR It is really amazing what I am seeing here. This game is the CCP grieving machine. Thanks for all answers. dont be so absent minded when you get a contract, pay attention to little details you get a contract for a "navy issue megathron" for only 150million and open up the contract, and notice it is grey, not black, then you konw its not a navy issue, gasps you didnt even have to read anything Originally by:** soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.18 18:11:00 - [35] Originally by: Feilamya Some people (like the op) really shouldn't play games. They don't get the concept of a game into their head, and they are clearly unable to distinguish between a game and real life. Sadly, products such as WoW have made many of those non-gamers get into gaming in the last couple of years. Threads like this are the result. unfortunatley, this statement is true Originally by: soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
dr doooo	Posted - 2008.09.18 19:35:00 - [36] Originally by: Vibora BR Don't fool yourself dude, this has nothing to do with donation. It is the same as you buy a service or product by an advertising and don't get it, the lawns will protect you against it. Sure, but sometimes those laws fail to protect you anyway. Do you want to teach your kids to be blindly trusting, and expect all law breakers to be swiftly brought to justice? Or do you want them to learn how the world really is, and how to be a good but capable person within it? Originally by: Vibora BR I am writing to Pan-European Game Information (PEGI) asking them to review this game age rating. A 12 years old child can't learn this kind of "lessons" your are giving here. I know now the game that my sons won't ever play. By the age of 12 I would hope to have already taught my kids how to use their brain, and think for themselves, when it comes to these sort of 'lessons'. If, however, they tend towards the short end of the dumb/naive spectrum, this is exactly the sort of place I would want them to learn these 'lessons'. I've always thought that the poor suckers, whose parents didn't teach them the life skills needed in the real world, and who come to the forums winging about scams, should really be posting a thank you post. Many others aren't so lucky, and get similar 'lessons' in the real world, where it really hurts.
DubanFP Caldari Kylia Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.18 19:41:00 - [37] Edited by: DubanFP on 18/09/2008 19:41:17 Originally by: dr doooo I've always thought that the poor suckers, whose parents didn't teach them the life skills needed in the real world, and who come to the forums winging about scams, should really be posting a thank you post. Many others aren't so lucky, and get similar 'lessons' in the real world, where it really hurts. --and-- Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. --and-- Can I have your stuff? _______________ "Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely outclassed
dr doooo	Posted - 2008.09.18 20:46:00 - [38] Edited by: dr doooo on 18/09/2008 20:53:22 Originally by: DubanFP Edited by: DubanFP on 18/09/2008 19:41:17 Originally by: dr doooo I've always thought that the poor suckers, whose parents didn't teach them the life skills needed in the real world, and who come to the forums winging about scams, should really be posting a thank you post. Many others aren't so lucky, and get similar 'lessons' in the real world, where it really hurts. --and-- Don't let the door hit your ass on the way out. --and-- Can I have your stuff? You can have my stuff, but you need to send carriage and brokers fees up front of 2,356,546,776 isk. (you are very lucky, as I am very rich).
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.18 23:59:00 - [39] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 18/09/2008 23:59:34 This thread is both epic and sigworthy. EDIT: Oops, i guess that quote is too big for a sig :(
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:02:00 - [40] I think interesting the way people here think. Wrong is the guy that has been cheated by the lawyer and have signed a bad contract, the guy that has been stoled by a thief, the woman that has been ****d... The aggressor is a kind of hero here. Really interesting to see your values.
soldieroffortune 258 Gallente Trinity Council	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:04:00 - [41] Originally by: Veebora I think interesting the way people here think. Wrong is the guy that has been cheated by the lawyer and have signed a bad contract, the guy that has been stoled by a thief, the woman that has been **d... The aggressor is a kind of hero here. Really interesting to see your values. /backhand why do people compare video games to RL your a pirate, you MUST be a mass murderer in RL get over it, WoW is that way if you dont want any pvp, bye bye now Originally by:** soldieroffortune 258 "*Eve is about making yourself richer while making the other guy poorer*"
Xori Ruscuv The Scope	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:04:00 - [42] Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 19/09/2008 00:08:51 Edited by: Xori Ruscuv on 19/09/2008 00:06:35 Originally by: Vibora BR It is the same as you buy a service or product by an advertising and don't get it, the lawns will protect you against it. Laws only "protect" you as long as you are a willing servant of your government. Those laws will be tightened to destroy your freedoms, and the ones in charge will rewrite those laws to set themselves free of prosecution for their wrongdoings. The only one that can truly protect you is yourself. Intellectual training is your only true armor. Anarchism aside, Eve's a fun game :D It's a sandbox, anything can happen. If I had a son, as long as he was mature enough to separate reality from make-believe, I wouldn't hesitate to let him play this game at 12 - or even younger. No way! I'm a pirate. I blow people up indiscriminately (and get blown up too)! But I love my wife (of 8 years) and family, I love kitties and lizards, I've never struck a child, and I have a strong feeling of remorse (at 27) over the only time I stole something (as a child). But... I can separate reality from make-believe. This is a game, no different from Chess or Quake.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:17:00 - [43] Originally by: Veebora I think interesting the way people here think. It is, isn't it? It is interesting to listen to someone who is allegedly a adult and thinks that appealing to higher authority to give your stuff back because you didn't read the contract you were signing works (or should work). It is extremely interesting to watch someone commit a total logical fallacy in comparing willingly signing a contract (just not bothering reading it in detail) to a violent (and by definition non-consensual) crime such as ****. Furthermore, it is even more interesting to listen to people who don't understand gaming in general and role-playing gaming in particular at all. EvE is a game where you can lose your stuff and your safety is mostly up to you. Imagine capitalism where you get to shoot the competition in the face - that's EvE world for you. If you don't like it, then you don't like the EvE world. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Haalanii	Posted - 2008.09.19 00:32:00 - [44] Don't trust anyone completely, ever. If you think some person or some corp is worth trusting in a particular matter then that's a calculated risk you take. It may seem harsh at first but when you fly with good people long enough in positions where they could kill you or rip you off it builds real a real basis for trust. Trusting someone you don't know is not realistic and frankly asking for trouble. Of course, plenty of players have joined corps pretending to be honest only to steal from them later. That said, just take basic precautions, you don't need to be overly paranoid. Just click all links, check the contracts carefully, never loan without collateral and never fly something in a situation you feel is unsafe just because someone asks you to. High risk, high stakes games are more fun anyway. I know the infamous GHSC story was a major factor in my decision to even pick up eve. A scam that destroyed a massive organization in a moment after extensive planning, taking billions (when a billion was alot), seemed amazing to me. I never pursued scamming myself, but I liked that the world was complex and interesting.
Captain Diamond	Posted - 2008.09.19 01:35:00 - [45] Edited by: Captain Diamond on 19/09/2008 01:35:45 You think scamming is bad; what about the nut that sets the cost for communication with him/her really high. When wanting to chat, most people usually click to accept really quickly not even looking at what the charge is. That's one you don't want to fall for when its set to millions.
DubanFP Caldari Kylia Inc.	Posted - 2008.09.19 02:16:00 - [46] Originally by: Captain Diamond Edited by: Captain Diamond on 19/09/2008 01:35:45 You think scamming is bad; what about the nut that sets the cost for communication with him/her really high. When wanting to chat, most people usually click to accept really quickly not even looking at what the charge is. That's one you don't want to fall for when its set to millions. lol. That's not a mistake, a scam, or being an ass. A lot of the people do that when we know our friends can afford it and a lot of the people we don't care about like isk spammers, beggers, can't. Even Sir Molle has it set to 1 million presumibly to avoid the crap "BoB" spam. _______________ "Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely outclassed
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:24:00 - [47] I've seem some even people posting here, but most here are really with the values reversed. Of course we need to take care of us, but when we can't due a mistake or a bad moment we shouldn't be ashamed because someone without any caliber took advantage of the moment and cheated on us. We need to learn with it, but the cheater is the guy outside the line here, not the victim. I really think that what you do in a game against real a person, you can do in real life indeed. As I said, we are not NPCs but real people. So you are hurting and stealing a human being, not a NPC.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:43:00 - [48] Edited by: Vaal Erit on 19/09/2008 04:43:40 Originally by: Veebora I really think that what you do in a game against real a person, you can do in real life indeed. Well I have played guitar hero but I can't play actual guitar worth a damn. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Veebora Caldari	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:47:00 - [49] If you think that your guitar in Guitar Hero is a real person you should look for help.
Erimisha Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:53:00 - [50] Originally by: Veebora If you think that your guitar in Guitar Hero is a real person you should look for help. So if I do something BAD in a game you say I'm a bad person but if I do something good I should look for help?
Khraunus Amarr Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:55:00 - [51] Originally by: Veebora If you think that your guitar in Guitar Hero is a real person you should look for help. Do you have something against people who roleplay musicians? Then I believe it is you who are wrong, not I!
LOLOLOLOL XDDD	Posted - 2008.09.19 04:59:00 - [52] i can play guitar, but i suck at guitar hero. meh.
FOl2TY8 Revolutionary United Front Silex Union	Posted - 2008.09.19 05:43:00 - [53] Oh no my space money!!!!! ---------- The six paths and the four lives....
Stephannus Calimben the united	Posted - 2008.09.19 06:38:00 - [54] To the Op: Are you much of a card player? The game of poker is a game where the object is to use the rules, that is a set number of randomly dealt cards and a specific predetermined betting order, to gain the most of your opponents money as you can manage to obtain. Once the rules have been set, you are allowed to flex the muscles of your imagination within the confines of the rules as you see fit. Eve is a lot like a game of poker. The rules have been laid out in the EULA, as well as updated occasionally through newly added bannable offenses. However, so long as you play within the confines of those rules, you are free to do as you please to win your opponents money, or to accumulate it through the game in other means as you see fit. Also, much like a game of poker, players leave their morality at the door. In poker you don't feel guilty about deceiving, lying to, or otherwise misleading your opponents as they all agreed to those rules upon agreeing to play the game. What you're doing now is like pushing all your money onto the table because your opponent said he had a pair of threes (which you could beat), when he in fact had a pair of aces (which you couldn't). This is very clearly unfair, not because you were cheated but because you are attempting to cheat HIM by reneging on rules that you agreed to play by when you joined the game. However, much like your poker buddies would undoubtedly do, CCP is also refusing to return to you your money. You need to take a moment to sit back and reflect on what you're expecting. This is a game. It is not a reality simulator, it is not a storybook lesson designed to teach your child morality. It is also not a cooperative space-mining sim. Eve is a game meant to simulate a space-faring wild west. The game has been constructed such that each player is confronted with a set of tools and a sandbox to play in. That sandbox is filled with other players given much the same tools, and you're free to determine your own personal goal and pursue it how you see fit. That some, like you, choose to cooperate with their fellow players to obtain mutual prosperity doesn't mean that other players are not equally correct in assuming that the goal of the game is to prove their superior intellect and daring by swindling others of their money, or taking it by brute force. That's the joy of this game, is that no matter how you play you're always kept on your toes by everybody else, and the friendships you forge are all the stronger because of it (even though you shouldn't trust even them with a dime of your isk). When you clicked ok to the EULA, this was the game you signed up for, not the one you seem to think it is. If that's not alright with you, then I wish you good luck in whatever game you find that is.
Renox Gallente Celestial Apocalypse Resurgency	Posted - 2008.09.19 07:32:00 - [55] Edited by: Renox on 19/09/2008 07:34:38 Edited by: Renox on 19/09/2008 07:34:15 Originally by: Veebora I've seem some even people posting here, but most here are really with the values reversed. Of course we need to take care of us, but when we can't due a mistake or a bad moment we shouldn't be ashamed because someone without any caliber took advantage of the moment and cheated on us. We need to learn with it, but the cheater is the guy outside the line here, not the victim. I really think that what you do in a game against real a person, you can do in real life indeed. As I said, we are not NPCs but real people. So you are hurting and stealing a human being, not a NPC. I think the point here is that people don't glorify the thief or berate the one scammed. If you play this game long enough you will slip up at some point. However people/the community WILL hit down hard on what it perceives as whining, especially when all said, it's the person's own fault. As far as I know there are VERY few scams (none?) that cannot be avoided by reading the entire contract. As that's the case it doesn't really teach people to scam, it does however teach people to be careful and not just jump at something that looks too good, or at least to look at what they buy in detail. So no, it is not an inversion of values but rather people defending the sandbox nature of EVE, which is what makes it stand out. It does not hold your hand like so many other games, which is one of the attraction of the game. This isn't for everyone, but it is hardly something that should be banned for children to play. If anything this system teach people to be a bit more aware, which might even spill over into your everyday life. It's like trying to shelter kids from the world, it doesn't work, it's better to teach them how to handle it. Summing up: It's not glorifying the thief, it's knocking up the whiner that wants to turn Eve into "just-another-MMO-but-in-space". EDIT: Should note I don't find your post an outright whine myself, but I do think your thoughts about how much CCP should hold people's hands does not belong in this game. "what are you gonna do with your pixels in your wallet when the server goes down is up to you." - Lilan
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.19 07:35:00 - [56] Scam is allowed and encouraged as much as any action taken within the rules of the game and as long it isn't breaking EULA. WHBT, GJFs 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001
Marchocias Silent Ninja's	Posted - 2008.09.19 08:16:00 - [57] Unfortunately for the original poster, he appears to have been comprehensively served on this thread. Hopefully he'll think twice before darkening the forums with his rose tinted spectacles again. ---- Yaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoughcoughaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaarrr!!
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.09.19 08:32:00 - [58] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 19/09/2008 08:32:57 Really, OP, I don't know that there are any "bad" lessons in Eve that your kids won't quickly learn on the school playground. There are people who will take advantage of your gullibility. There are people who will pounce the moment your guard is down. There are people who will abuse your trust. Any fourth grader can tell you as much, and probably point you to a couple of classmates as examples. Children are cruel. Eve is an admittedly cutthroat game, but that's precisely why most of us who frequent C&P play it. If significant losses (such as having your wreck stripped by the punks who blew you up) weren't a possibility, the game would have little tension and less interest. The whole game is PvP of one sort or another; if you're selling your wares at market, you're competing against others who are trying to make an ISK at your expense. MMO's are frequently "sandbox"-style games, so the comparison to a playground isn't actually far off. You can think of Eve as the sort of sandbox that is just the kids on their own without adult supervision; CCP pretty much stops at preventing us from breaking the rules, not of law, but of reality. That is, pushing Timmy down in the mud is quite acceptable from reality's (CCP's) point of view. What's banned is stuff like levitation-- not stuff kids "shouldn't" do, but stuff they "can't." Someone earlier mentioned anarchy. Well, Eve's not quite it, but it's as close to it as I personally ever hope to come. Ghost Festival is recruiting!
Niobius Julius Mortis Angelus The Church.	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:12:00 - [59] Originally by: Veebora I've seem some even people posting here, but most here are really with the values reversed. Of course we need to take care of us, but when we can't due a mistake or a bad moment we shouldn't be ashamed because someone without any caliber took advantage of the moment and cheated on us. We need to learn with it, but the cheater is the guy outside the line here, not the victim. I really think that what you do in a game against real a person, you can do in real life indeed. As I said, we are not NPCs but real people. So you are hurting and stealing a human being, not a NPC. Dude, you are so naive. Your playing a game, you do understand this right? When you play football and you score a goal, you feel guilty and un-human somehow? lol Winner is a winner. What do you not understand in this line? On a lighter note, I have never been scammed. Just pay attention and use your brains, thats not hard to do, is it?
Dark 187	Posted - 2008.09.19 11:41:00 - [60] /quit life dude. your seriously messed up in the brain.

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