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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.06.18 02:21:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Mr nStuff Yes.. Make drones useless.. They shouldn't be able to hit anything but asteroids.
For **** sake!
1. Drones hit for max damage every shot.
2. Drones *never* miss. 100% accuracy.
3. Drones continue to attack past insane ranges.
For all you people who think i want drones to be useless or to be an invincable frigates pilot, go **** yourselves.
I want frigates to have a *chance* against drones.
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Sicori Malaki
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Posted - 2004.06.18 02:48:00 -
[32]
apply some accurasy formula for drones. make light/Medium drones have an accurasy formula for a frigate sized gun make heavy drones have an accurasy formula for a cruiser sized gun
this would solve everything, the long range issue as they wouldn't even hit at that range due to the formula, heavy drones not instantly killing frigates, medium drones and light drones still able to kill a frig off easily.
______________ Only in the Tales that humans tell, do the hunters kill the wolf in the end.
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Liz Bathory
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Posted - 2004.06.18 02:58:00 -
[33]
drones will, when they see a frigate, kill it, pod it and******the corpse yes, drones should be nasty, 8 drones should kill a frigate unless he runs
problem is, atm, you CAN'T run last time i didn;t die (only 2 drones fired) i stopped getting hits when i warped i was over 150km away from the drones at that point
also.. they never miss, ever, just like missiles, only it's a turret if a missile hits, perfect damage.. drones always hit. always do perfect damage, not at all like a microfrigate under semi remote control
which is what drones are, frigate guns, an engine, and a remote control setup, and a huge ammo bay
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Venril
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Posted - 2004.06.18 04:05:00 -
[34]
Heavy drones shouldn't have a hard time hitting a frig although I would settle for a 60/40 accurary to satisfy the pilots. Heavy drones are smaller then frigs and more fragile then frigs as well.
As far as the scorpion. Proper planning prevents **** poor performance. VS 10 ogre's Scorpion should always win hands down. Your pilot just did not know how to equip his ship.
My ogres in 0.0 space was doing >< that much dmg to a frig all 6 of them unloading on enemy frig.... My conclusion? wtf kinda !@#$ is that? I mean yea did good against its shield then all 6 of them firing made this much of an indent on its armor > < 6 min or so per frig.
Granted I do agree with fixing the insane ranges as I see my drones shooting and hitting 50k out.
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Mongo Peck
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Posted - 2004.06.18 06:16:00 -
[35]
Last test ...............
Crow Interceptor travelling at 20,000 m/s with dual mwd still being hit at 327 km + by heavey drones ....
It's not a question of balance .... people are trying to make the point that drones ........ have no limits to their firing / targetting abilities ..
Nuff Said
Mongo speaks !!
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.18 07:19:00 -
[36]
I agree that drones should not hit at such extreme ranges.
Drones should have the same tracking ability as frigate-sized guns.
Have frigate pilots ever given thought to the fact that maybe you're always meant to lose to 8 drones? Drones and frigates aren't of dissimilar size.
Let's fix the infinite range and 100% damage hits first before we mess with tracking. We all know what messing with tracking gets us
P.S: If the infinite range stuff goes, frigates will be able to pick the drones off from range, which would give them much more survivability.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.06.18 13:09:00 -
[37]
This thread needs to be kept high profile.
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Johnson McCrae
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:00:00 -
[38]
I got a cure for these frigate whiners:
Any frig that comes within 100k of a ship with drones just blows up. End of story.
Come ON, not many frig owners even TARGET the drones? If their the biggest threat, SHOOT THEM! It ain't over till the fat lady falls on ya!
[ 2004.10.09 02:50:23 ] (combat) Your 425mm Compressed Coil Gun I perfectly strikes Guardian Sentry, wrecking for 747.3 damage.
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Nightfang
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:01:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Johnson McCrae I got a cure for these frigate whiners:
Any frig that comes within 100k of a ship with drones just blows up. End of story.
Come ON, not many frig owners even TARGET the drones? If their the biggest threat, SHOOT THEM!
Congratulations, you've just proven yourself the most ignorant person in this thread!
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whodidat
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:13:00 -
[40]
Im not trying to have drones nerfed, however there is something fundamentaly wrong with the game mechanics when 8 drones can take out 8 figates ,2 cruisers and a bs.
Yes the scorpion got in close in order to keep the bs warp scrambled. yes i agree the drones should take out frigates my figate lasted about 5 seconds we lost 4 in as many seconds .
We knew this when we attacked , I dont think ccp intended 8 drones to take out a fleet.
As has already been stated drones hit 100% of the time at a very fast rate, I believe the changes made in the last patch have made a serious difference to fighting with drones.
Pre patch we would have lost some of the frigates but not the whole fleet.
I state again we new what we were doing we were trying out tried and tested tactics.
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whodidat
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:13:00 -
[41]
Im not trying to have drones nerfed, however there is something fundamentaly wrong with the game mechanics when 8 drones can take out 8 figates ,2 cruisers and a bs.
Yes the scorpion got in close in order to keep the bs warp scrambled. yes i agree the drones should take out frigates my figate lasted about 5 seconds we lost 4 in as many seconds .
We knew this when we attacked , I dont think ccp intended 8 drones to take out a fleet.
As has already been stated drones hit 100% of the time at a very fast rate, I believe the changes made in the last patch have made a serious difference to fighting with drones.
Pre patch we would have lost some of the frigates but not the whole fleet.
I state again we knew what we were doing we were trying out tried and tested tactics.
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Ithildin
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Posted - 2004.06.18 14:47:00 -
[42]
whodidat, I think it has to do with how CCP changed criminal flagging and non-player controlled entities target acquisition. They did nothing to/for the drones.
Drones have always been a laterÖ thing, and has always been given a low priority. Basically because if they touch them, they'll have to look on all ships drone bays, the effect of drones on all ships and NPCs, and the survivability of the drones themselves (high versus players, extremely low versus rats). The least they could do, though, would be to fix the drones firing above targeting range. --
If TC causes you discomfort that you feel is unwarranted or may be outside TC's current contract - contact me, please. |
ThorpedoMk2
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Posted - 2004.06.18 16:36:00 -
[43]
ok, the bottom line of this topic seems to be (before you guys loop it around again and hurl abuse at ppl with opposing opinions to you) is
a)drones range is too far, running away isnt possible (fair enough point and needs to be repaired)
b)drones can take out lots of frigates (the example given is disputable about the scorpion + cruisers as the technique used is uncertain, therefore ignored)...well if you have 6.4mil of drones and thorax, plus the skills required to use that many drones, then surely 2 mil of frigates should be happpily nailed, just not at infinite distance)
c)drones cant miss...ever (again, needs to be fixed slightly as all ur evasive manouvers count for jack against drones otherwise)
if you want to PvP with the big boys, get some big toys......personally im in a frgate still (going for cruisers soon) and i dont PvP with the larger ships for the simple reason.......my ship costs about the same as one of their weapons......if you want to PvP about 8 mil of cruiser drones guns and other toys, then chuck 8 mil of medium drones frigates and your own toys back at it......skill counts for alot of things but it still doesnt mean you can take out golliath with a toothpick
the original point of this topic was to appeal for a quick add on to a patch to give the drones a realistic range and some sort of margin of inaccuracy (which will probs be quite difficult to program for a whole new independant mini ship with its own accuracy and stats) so stop bickering about EVERYTHING and just agree on SOMETHING
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Celeste Fireo
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Posted - 2004.06.18 18:35:00 -
[44]
drones should have an optimal range,
Example: NPC is 40km away. Thorax piliot lets out 8 wasps, and tells them to attack the NPC.
Wasps should fire constantly while moving to their target. Acting like turrets getting misses and low damage shots. The damage the wasps do increase as they get close to the NPC - closer to there optimal range. Drones orbit target at optimal range and then hit every time getting nasty 25+ damage shots that don't miss.
Simply put drones should have optimal ranges - Long range drones do light damage? vs close range drones? just some thoughts
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Morikai Acler
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Posted - 2004.06.18 19:42:00 -
[45]
Nother point of interest to add to this. From my personal experience having targeted and shot and drones in PvP in a frigate. They are as far as I can tell invuln to pvp damage. I found this out by locking onto to an Ogre I, and firing a volley of all 4 damage type missiles out of my kestrel. All 4 missile hit, and gave the little pop up thing saying the drone had taken x damage. But looking at the target display up top, showed that no damage was registered to the drone at all. After which we then had the problem, that no matter how many times the owner tried to call off the drone it wouldnt stop attacking until after I warped away. This was prepatch.
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holy jo
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Posted - 2004.06.19 08:14:00 -
[46]
Well if you cant beat em join em now testing out pvp strategies using drones.
Nice results ... long live drones
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.19 09:43:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert I agree that drones should not hit at such extreme ranges.
Drones should have the same tracking ability as frigate-sized guns.
Have frigate pilots ever given thought to the fact that maybe you're always meant to lose to 8 drones? Drones and frigates aren't of dissimilar size.
Let's fix the infinite range and 100% damage hits first before we mess with tracking. We all know what messing with tracking gets us
P.S: If the infinite range stuff goes, frigates will be able to pick the drones off from range, which would give them much more survivability.
That's the point I was trying to make nStuff.
It should never become the case where 8 Heavy Drones can't kill a frigate. 8 Heavy Drones = 8 frigates.
Frigate users are often telling us BS specialists to "Adapt or die" - let's get the heavy drones adapted but you'll still die
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Mr nStuff
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Posted - 2004.06.19 09:45:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Lansfear 1. Drones hit for max damage every shot.
2. Drones *never* miss. 100% accuracy.
3. Drones continue to attack past insane ranges.
Thoughs are bugs..
But when they are fixed. If you orbit my ship and I launch 8 Heavy Drones. You better move your ass outa my way. Cause my drones will uber own joo still..
I mean if you're in a frigate and I launch 8 Heavy Drones. It's practically 8 against one. Heavy Drones are like little frigates. Remember? Granted they should have tracking and range issues, but they are still heavy drones.
But in all fairness. You should be able to get out the way and pick them off one by one with a little shield tanking or something. But still then you would have to worry about me taking pot shots at you while you're combating my drones.
5 R&D Agents, 10months, Zero BPO Offers.. Onboard navigational [Planetary Avoidance] computer.
My account will be suspended at the end of the current play period. Expires on 19. September 2004 |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.06.19 11:08:00 -
[49]
8 heavy drones destroyed a Scorpion?
Bull. Show us the logs. -- We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Liz Bathory
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Posted - 2004.06.19 12:06:00 -
[50]
Mr nStuff.. Speaking as a dedicated frigate pvp pilot, I love your idea
a dominix will still gank a fleet of frigates, just becuase it has so many drones but, it should be possible to pick off the drones from other bs's, and, witha decent fleet of say 16 frigates, really give the battleship a bad day
though maybe not destroy him
and, if you see drones gong out.. you can actuially run out of drone range, and expect to make it
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.06.19 12:41:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Tar om 8 heavy drones destroyed a Scorpion?
Bull. Show us the logs.
Some EV guys had an enemy Scorpion warp-jammed, webbed, and target-jammed and just killed him with heavy drones
'Twas more than 8 though.
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.06.19 15:04:00 -
[52]
So when are the changes to drones scheduled to go live on Tranquility ?
CCP ?
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Nicholas Marshal
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Posted - 2004.06.20 14:25:00 -
[53]
It would be nice to get an official response on this thread.
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Falzone
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Posted - 2004.06.21 02:17:00 -
[54]
oh shut the hell up they already nerfed it so we can't hit frigs with our large guns. Stop your whining
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Moiran
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Posted - 2004.06.21 02:29:00 -
[55]
if they nerve the drones soon every bs will get attacked by 10 or so 200k costs frigates (2 million!) and destroy every 100 million cost bs silly enough to fly in theit blob.
Thus all the noobs that first venture out in 0.0 will loose their bs and is send back to the sandbox for another 2 months of mining.
guessing that 25% of them will give up eve after that.
but again every pirate and bs ship builder will scream with joy
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Garramon
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Posted - 2004.06.21 02:54:00 -
[56]
As a Megathron pilot, I can assure you that every experienced Gallente pilto knows drones have a bug, but in the meantime, that wont stop us from killing you!
CCP:
Fix the Drone Optimal Range bug, it wasn't in the game a year ago!
I should hope nobody is asking to NERF drones, but FIX them. ------------------------------------------------
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Ka Dargo
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Posted - 2004.06.21 03:01:00 -
[57]
Originally by: whodidat Im not trying to have drones nerfed, however there is something fundamentaly wrong with the game mechanics when 8 drones can take out 8 figates ,2 cruisers and a bs.
Yes the scorpion got in close in order to keep the bs warp scrambled. yes i agree the drones should take out frigates my figate lasted about 5 seconds we lost 4 in as many seconds .
We knew this when we attacked , I dont think ccp intended 8 drones to take out a fleet.
As has already been stated drones hit 100% of the time at a very fast rate, I believe the changes made in the last patch have made a serious difference to fighting with drones.
Pre patch we would have lost some of the frigates but not the whole fleet.
I state again we new what we were doing we were trying out tried and tested tactics.
Ok I realy can't understand how you cab lose then many ships to a megathron using only drones, sounds like a crock... never heard of warping out.
The only bug I can see with drones at the moment is the firing range issue & I agree that is BullSh*t. There is a skill you have to train to be able to use drones out to a certain range. They should either stop firing at this range limit or once they have past this limit.
On other points in this thread drones are frigate defenses, they should be able to pound frigates, especally when the skills required to use them are trained up. - Ka Dargo. [ 2005.04.10 14:41:05 ] Your 425mm Railgun II perfectly strikes Dread Pith Massacrer, wrecking for 1271.6 damage.
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Cekle Skyscales
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Posted - 2004.06.21 09:22:00 -
[58]
Half way through this post I couldn't bear to leave it alone.
Drones = AI Frigate = Player
Drones are programmed to attack and destroy. That's what they do, it's their thing.
Frigates are not programmed, they do not have Artificial Intelligence.
Let's see...firstly, I'll assess your distance formula whatever it is. My first question, what kind of stupid idiot would fly 326 km away from drones? Warp away and don't think of taking on a cruiser with a 2 to 3 gun ship!
Secondly..."I can't run away from drones, the lag screws me over" Uh...well, maybe it wasn't wise to take on a Thorax in the first place, use your intelligence. Thorax...Mining...No mining drones? Hmm...only two options. Stupid Thorax, or Drone-Based Thorax. That's about a 90% chance of it being Drone-Protected.
Solution? STOP ATTACKING CRUISERS. Cruisers vs Cruisers is fair, Frigate vs Frigate is fair, and B-ship vs B-ship is fair. Not Frigate vs Cruiser, Frigate wins. Understand?
Again, price is definitely brought into play. 6 million isk for a Thorax is damn well worth it. 150k for a frigate should not be able to take on a 6 million isk Thorax. There is no chance at all.
If you are stupid enough to attack a cruiser with a frigate you absolutely deserve every bit of killing that you get from these heavy drones. If you're attacked by a cruiser, they still have to warp in and deploy the drones, RUN! It's common sense here people.
Frigates are light, and fast. Unfortunately, drones are -faster- because they're -smaller-. So please, stop complaining every time you get shot to pieces because of your own stupidity.
Either you didn't run, thinking you could make it. Or, you attacked a freaking CRUISER with your FRIGATE!
Now that I'm done ranting...a simple solution would be to make heavy drones a bit more costly by making them take more minerals to build. - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
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Lansfear
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Posted - 2004.06.21 15:21:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Cekle Skyscales Half way through this post I couldn't bear to leave it alone.
Drones = AI Frigate = Player
Drones are programmed to attack and destroy. That's what they do, it's their thing.
Frigates are not programmed, they do not have Artificial Intelligence.
Let's see...firstly, I'll assess your distance formula whatever it is. My first question, what kind of stupid idiot would fly 326 km away from drones? Warp away and don't think of taking on a cruiser with a 2 to 3 gun ship!
Secondly..."I can't run away from drones, the lag screws me over" Uh...well, maybe it wasn't wise to take on a Thorax in the first place, use your intelligence. Thorax...Mining...No mining drones? Hmm...only two options. Stupid Thorax, or Drone-Based Thorax. That's about a 90% chance of it being Drone-Protected.
Solution? STOP ATTACKING CRUISERS. Cruisers vs Cruisers is fair, Frigate vs Frigate is fair, and B-ship vs B-ship is fair. Not Frigate vs Cruiser, Frigate wins. Understand?
Again, price is definitely brought into play. 6 million isk for a Thorax is damn well worth it. 150k for a frigate should not be able to take on a 6 million isk Thorax. There is no chance at all.
If you are stupid enough to attack a cruiser with a frigate you absolutely deserve every bit of killing that you get from these heavy drones. If you're attacked by a cruiser, they still have to warp in and deploy the drones, RUN! It's common sense here people.
Frigates are light, and fast. Unfortunately, drones are -faster- because they're -smaller-. So please, stop complaining every time you get shot to pieces because of your own stupidity.
Either you didn't run, thinking you could make it. Or, you attacked a freaking CRUISER with your FRIGATE!
Now that I'm done ranting...a simple solution would be to make heavy drones a bit more costly by making them take more minerals to build.
You have no idea what we're talking about do you?
And by the sound of your post you've never fired on another player.
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Celeste Fireo
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Posted - 2004.06.21 15:28:00 -
[60]
interesting response cekle, although i fail to udnerstand how increasing mins needed to build drones fixes the infinite range and perfect hits.....
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