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Evelgrivion Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:21:00 - [1] On average, what is the net total of ISK added to the economy each day? How much is added from the faucets (Ratting, NPC commodities, Mission payouts, insurance)? How much goes into the sinks (Taxes, Manufacturing costs, Blueprints, Starbases and Modules, Outpost components, Clone Costs, Insurance policies, Office Rentals, etc)?
Ho HsienKo Ammatar Free Corps	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:26:00 - [2] A challenger appears? 1/10 for damage control
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:27:00 - [3] about 10x more is generated than leaves.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:28:00 - [4] Originally by: Ho HsienKo A challenger appears? 1/10 for damage control CAOD is ----------> way -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Mr Friendly That it Should Come to This	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:34:00 - [5] Well, if the good Dr.Eyo would be good enough to post his blog (AHEM), perhaps we could tell? Funny way of doing a quarterly report....
Evelgrivion Black Nova Corp Band of Brothers	Posted - 2008.09.20 09:55:00 - [6] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl about 10x more is generated than leaves. I think the figure for ISK introduced is around 900 billion ISK per day. I don't know how much is sunk on a day to day basis.
Biostacis	Posted - 2008.09.20 11:07:00 - [7] so are there any numbers of the inflation rates over the years?
Mihailo Great Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.20 12:05:00 - [8] Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 12:06:04 Originally by: Biostacis so are there any numbers of the inflation rates over the years? Everything has come down in price, except GTCs. GTC inflation = eve market deflation = win for majority of players Everything is good, the only ones squeaming are the T2 BPO holders with 20 accounts. I like it.
Gai Servos	Posted - 2008.09.20 12:15:00 - [9] Originally by: Mihailo Great Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 12:06:04 Originally by: Biostacis so are there any numbers of the inflation rates over the years? Everything has come down in price, except GTCs. GTC inflation = eve market deflation = win for majority of players Everything is good, the only ones squeaming are the T2 BPO holders with 20 accounts. I like it. All faction stuff has skyrocketed in price... It means really eve market is inflating and heavy... There are huge amounts of idle isk in wallets, which means really t1 / t2 loss does not mean anything for majority of 0.0 players, and pretty much all are able to field low-grad faction fittings. You speak something you dont know about.
Mihailo Great Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.20 14:59:00 - [10] Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 15:00:18 Originally by: Gai Servos All faction stuff has skyrocketed in price... It means really eve market is inflating and heavy... There are huge amounts of idle isk in wallets, which means really t1 / t2 loss does not mean anything for majority of 0.0 players, and pretty much all are able to field low-grad faction fittings. You speak something you dont know about. Shut up, you're just peddling propaganda for the T2 BPO Industrial Complex All T2 ship and modules prices have come done significantly, a lot of them by 50% to 80%!! You don't use luxury items like officer mods to read inflation nub.
Super Trucker Dewy Cheatem and Howe	Posted - 2008.09.20 15:38:00 - [11] Originally by: Mihailo Great Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 15:00:18 Shut up, you're just peddling propaganda for the T2 BPO Industrial Complex All T2 ship and modules prices have come done significantly, a lot of them by 50% to 80%!! You don't use luxury items like officer mods to read inflation nub. Actually your the one who has no idea what you're talking about. Rising prices on GTC's and items with a limited supply (ie. officer mods and such) mean that there is inflation happening and a lot of it. So yes much more ISK is flowing in then is flowing out. This is Economics 101 stuff......
Demitria Fernir Caldari Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.20 15:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Demitria Fernir on 20/09/2008 15:46:24 Originally by: Mihailo Great All T2 NANO ship and modules prices have come done significantly, a lot of them by 50% to 80%!! EDIT: Originally by: Super Trucker Originally by: Mihailo Great Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 15:00:18 Shut up, you're just peddling propaganda for the T2 BPO Industrial Complex All T2 ship and modules prices have come done significantly, a lot of them by 50% to 80%!! You don't use luxury items like officer mods to read inflation nub. Actually your the one who has no idea what you're talking about. Rising prices on GTC's and items with a limited supply (ie. officer mods and such) mean that there is inflation happening and a lot of it. So yes much more ISK is flowing in then is flowing out. This is Economics 101 stuff...... Items with a limited supply? Officers mod are everywhere, they spawn at the rate of 15/20 every 23 hours. not talking about the absurd amount of high sec little rats spawning low-grade implants and stuff. 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001 I will Conquer My Signature Somewhere in the future 10100110010100101010011010100101001100101110101001
Le Skunk Low Sec Liberators	Posted - 2008.09.20 15:56:00 - [13] We need a little robot friend called FRED you can buy in ambulation for 50 billion isk. When you dock he will follow you around cracking the odd joke. This will fix inflation SKUNK
Jovoich Infestation. The Church.	Posted - 2008.09.20 16:07:00 - [14] Originally by: Le Skunk We need a little robot friend called FRED you can buy in ambulation for 50 billion isk. When you dock he will follow you around cracking the odd joke. This will fix inflation SKUNK THIS!, cept it you should be GM Nova, & its 50b per hour.
Faife Minmatar Kinda'Shujaa	Posted - 2008.09.20 16:49:00 - [15] and when you click him, everything on the grid dies except HICs that can still infinipoint him
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.20 17:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Evelgrivion On average, what is the net total of ISK added to the economy each day? How much is added from the faucets (Ratting, NPC commodities, Mission payouts, insurance)? How much goes into the sinks (Taxes, Manufacturing costs, Blueprints, Starbases and Modules, Outpost components, Clone Costs, Insurance policies, Office Rentals, etc)? Only CCP could give those numbers. I think skillbooks would also be a big faucet, especially when you get to capital skills. Modules and T2 ships would probably represent the biggest outflow of income, looking at the KB for say GBC vs NC there is trillions of isk flowing out of the economy in a relatively short period of time. Major conflict would have to be the number one influence which would stem inflation.
Tasuk	Posted - 2008.09.20 17:49:00 - [17] Originally by: Demitria Fernir Items with a limited supply? Officers mod are everywhere, they spawn at the rate of 15/20 every 23 hours. not talking about the absurd amount of high sec little rats spawning low-grade implants and stuff. If they aren't in limited supply explain to me why contracts or forums don't have many of the officer items listed at a given time and why people are paying up several billions ISK for some of these mods.
Mihailo Great	Posted - 2008.09.20 18:03:00 - [18] Originally by: Super Trucker Originally by: Mihailo Great Edited by: Mihailo Great on 20/09/2008 15:00:18 Shut up, you're just peddling propaganda for the T2 BPO Industrial Complex All T2 ship and modules prices have come done significantly, a lot of them by 50% to 80%!! You don't use luxury items like officer mods to read inflation nub. Rising prices on GTC's and items with a limited supply (ie. officer mods and such) mean that there is inflation happening and a lot of it. This is Economics 101 stuff...... No it's not nub, you don't use rare luxury items and unecessary items (gtc) to measure inflation in a market. You only use the common stuff that is most used by most people. T1 and T2 ships and modules.
Venkul Mul Gallente	Posted - 2008.09.20 18:20:00 - [19] From the Economist report of a year ago: Quote: Similarly, about 536 billion is added through various pilot activities (faucets), but 365 billion leaks out again, thus adding an average net number of 171 billion per day, or 394,000 ISK per character each day. This amount grew from 130 billion per day in July to a max of 212 billion per day during the first week of September, and then leveled off at just under 200 billion ISK in the last week of September Seeing how the active population has increased by about 50% and average age (and so isk producing capacity) has increased, I would think a 75% increase in those numbers is abour right. So about 940 billions in, 640 billions out, so 300 billions in isk increase in the game if all has remained the same. In the period after the report there have been changes in the faucet/sinks, but nothing major, so the numbers shouldn't be to far off.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.20 22:05:00 - [20] Some interesting numbers, Venkul. I wish there was a top 5 faucets and sinks as I have some ideas what the worst faucet offenders are but can't say for sure. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.20 22:48:00 - [21] funny fact. if isk just sits in someones pocket it is not added to the econmy. However it does incease the (forgot the word for it) so basicly one player COULD go ionto jita and buy almost everything changing the prices of everything everywhere if he reeally wanted too.
Kyle Klanen	Posted - 2008.09.20 23:56:00 - [22] Originally by: Veldya Modules and T2 ships would probably represent the biggest outflow of income, looking at the KB for say GBC vs NC there is trillions of isk flowing out of the economy in a relatively short period of time. The ISK from exploded ships doesn't leave the economy it just transfers from the ship buyer to the ship seller it doesn't vanish.
Oregon sinful The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.21 03:07:00 - [23] The only place ISK is actually generated is from missions/npcing. All the other ISK in the game now is the same ISK as it's passed around. Without Bounties on NPC's or rewards for missions no new isk would be introduced into the economy. And the only time any isk is ever removed from the game is when someone buys something from an npc, pays a cspa charge or removes a characture from the game. So as a matter of fact there really is only one isk faucet, the other ways of "making" money are all down to finding good/effecient ways of getting someone else to give you the isk that's already in the economy in return for a product. As Per INFLATION there really is inflation because while you can argue that T2 Prices have dropped dramatically that is a very twisted argument because of, invention. The reason and the sole reason T2 is cheaper is because of invention. If it wasn't for invention I'm sure that Cap recharger II's would still be 15 million each. The fact that a 3rd party reached in to the system and changed something so intricate and completely reformed the fundamentals of the market, makes that pov argument null. If you really want to measure inflation you have to take a sample of low value, not necessarily price... meaning unimportant, seldom bought items, Mid value and high value items and compare price increases for all samples. I think you'll find that while t2 has been reduced in price most everything else has gotten a little more expensive. __________
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.21 03:12:00 - [24] Originally by: Kyle Klanen The ISK from exploded ships doesn't leave the economy it just transfers from the ship buyer to the ship seller it doesn't vanish. No, the income going out is the lost ship and the destroyed modules. Whether the replacement ship and modules are sourced internally or externally, ie costing you isk or not it is wealth that flows out. For example: Lets say your ship and modules cost 200m, you either paid for them out of your funds, got it via corp or had it corp built, that is just transfer of assets. It gets blown up, say the net loss from it being blown up is a total of 150m, only 50m worth of modules and crap survived irrespective who got the items. That is 50m of that 200m of wealth remains, the other 150m has gone out of the system. Replacing the ship is just moving around assets from one entity to another but the net loss of a ship also exits the economy.
Oregon sinful The Illuminati. Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2008.09.21 03:29:00 - [25] Originally by: Veldya Originally by: Kyle Klanen The ISK from exploded ships doesn't leave the economy it just transfers from the ship buyer to the ship seller it doesn't vanish. No, the income going out is the lost ship and the destroyed modules. Whether the replacement ship and modules are sourced internally or externally, ie costing you isk or not it is wealth that flows out. For example: Lets say your ship and modules cost 200m, you either paid for them out of your funds, got it via corp or had it corp built, that is just transfer of assets. It gets blown up, say the net loss from it being blown up is a total of 150m, only 50m worth of modules and crap survived irrespective who got the items. That is 50m of that 200m of wealth remains, the other 150m has gone out of the system. Replacing the ship is just moving around assets from one entity to another but the net loss of a ship also exits the economy. It's not isk that's blown up tho. It's minerals mined to produce the ship and module. True those materials and the physical ship are gone but the loss is on a personal level only. That pilot may have lost isk but the economy has lost none. __________
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.21 03:52:00 - [26] Originally by: Oregon sinful It's not isk that's blown up tho. It's minerals mined to produce the ship and module. True those materials and the physical ship are gone but the loss is on a personal level only. That pilot may have lost isk but the economy has lost none. Not really, it is called Opportunity Cost. Minerals are mined irrespective if you lose ships or not. If say your whole alliance produces 5 billion in isk a week and you are losing 7 billion isk per week in ship losses then the loss is far more than personal. You and or the alliance is bleeding wealth. People are going to mine or rat or run missions irrespective if they lose ships or not, that is adding wealth to the system. When you buy a ship or modules that is a transfer of wealth from one entity to another. You lose some wealth but someone else gains wealth, overall there is the same level of assets in the economy. However, when you lose a ship those losses are not transferred to anyone else other than the surviving modules and cargo. The net amount destroyed flows out of the economy. How you replace the ship is irrelevant in an overal economic sense because that is just a transfer of assets.
Kulmid Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.09.21 04:05:00 - [27] Originally by: Veldya Originally by: Oregon sinful It's not isk that's blown up tho. It's minerals mined to produce the ship and module. True those materials and the physical ship are gone but the loss is on a personal level only. That pilot may have lost isk but the economy has lost none. Not really, it is called Opportunity Cost. Minerals are mined irrespective if you lose ships or not. If say your whole alliance produces 5 billion in isk a week and you are losing 7 billion isk per week in ship losses then the loss is far more than personal. You and or the alliance is bleeding wealth. People are going to mine or rat or run missions irrespective if they lose ships or not, that is adding wealth to the system. When you buy a ship or modules that is a transfer of wealth from one entity to another. You lose some wealth but someone else gains wealth, overall there is the same level of assets in the economy. However, when you lose a ship those losses are not transferred to anyone else other than the surviving modules and cargo. The net amount destroyed flows out of the economy. How you replace the ship is irrelevant in an overal economic sense because that is just a transfer of assets. I don't understand how you can think that a lost ship is ISK flowing out of the economy. When a ship blows up, all the modules destroyed do not effect how much total ISK is present in the economy. If you buy a module for 200mil ISK and trash it, ISK does not flow out of the economy, the same ammount of total ISK in present. You would think CCP would have added things like, "Amarr", "CCP", "Microwarpdrive", etc. to their forum dictionary.
Jinx Barker GFB Scientific	Posted - 2008.09.21 04:07:00 - [28] Actually this is a legitimate question... I see ISK devaluation in game, and I would like to know the numbers as well.
Veldya Guristari Freedom Fighters	Posted - 2008.09.21 04:13:00 - [29] Originally by: Kulmid I don't understand how you can think that a lost ship is ISK flowing out of the economy. When a ship blows up, all the modules destroyed do not effect how much total ISK is present in the economy. If you buy a module for 200mil ISK and trash it, ISK does not flow out of the economy, the same ammount of total ISK in present. wtf are you on about? Total isk is in terms of assets. You bank, your ships, your modules, everything. If you buy a module for 200m it is a transfer of assets of 200m isk from your bank to 200m isk to someone else's bank. It is a balancing transaction. If you destroy the module it is 200m isk of an asset coming out of your balance sheet and it is not going anywhere else, it is flowing out of the economy. Anyone with a basic understanding of accounting and economic theory would understand this.
Kulmid Beyond Divinity Inc	Posted - 2008.09.21 04:17:00 - [30] Edited by: Kulmid on 21/09/2008 04:20:37 Originally by: Veldya wtf are you on about? Total isk is in terms of assets. You bank, your ships, your modules, everything. If you buy a module for 200m it is a transfer of assets of 200m isk from your bank to 200m isk to someone else's bank. It is a balancing transaction. If you destroy the module it is 200m isk of an asset coming out of your balance sheet and it is not going anywhere else, it is flowing out of the economy. Anyone with a basic understanding of accounting and economic theory would understand this. The ISK that you paid for it is not flowing out of the economy. If there is 1million total ISK in the economy, and you pay 500 thousand ISK for a module, then you destroy that module, there is still 1million ISK in the economy. Not an ISK sink. just for clarification purposes, ISK sink = ISK removed from the economy, not something that holds ISK value. Destroying a module would help cause inflation, not work against, like an ISK sink does. You would think CCP would have added things like, "Amarr", "CCP", "Microwarpdrive", etc. to their forum dictionary.

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