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CTec
Wasting Time RnD
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Posted - 2008.09.30 14:44:00 -
[31]
Titan Portals and then getting bumped. You lose the portal?
Titan being of a mass (smallest one) 1,537,500,000 kg. So anything smaller then a cap sized ship should be able to disturb a Titan let alone break the portal.
Kinetic Energy = Ek=1/2mv^2
Bumping at velocity should cause some form of damage. And when done by someone:
1. Not in your gang (stops warp bump damage).
2. Not in your Alliance/Corp (similar to repping without being in-gang).
To the bump(er):
1. High velocity bumping should cause damage to the ship to with a kenetic value in relationship to the mass of the target ship. ie., You try to bump a titan in a interceptor going 6km/s (just using an medium speed) with a mass of 1,075,000 (Taranis). The interceptor should be damaged at least into armor if not structure/destroyed.
Seems like another part of the game that was omitted for ease of programming.
Titans should not be able to be bumped by friendly (ganged) pilots, especially while creating a jump portal.
Bumping a freighter on a gate for an hour is griefing but under the current mechanics its not an aggressive act, this needs to be corrected as well.
Ramming is a valid military tactic where the attacker and target both take damage. Submarines were sunk while the attacker did take damage during RL use of this maneuver.
The game needs to be fixed. Not adding new material. Fix what we have and make it solid.
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Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:21:00 -
[32]
Supported - though I'd like to see re-examination of docking games and other issues where bumping has become the default, as to why that's the case and what's broken about it that they have to bump in the first place (if anything).
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Exlegion
New Light
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Posted - 2008.10.06 11:55:00 -
[33]
Bumping seems a little metagamy for my taste. Would like to see this done away with.
One of us equals many of us. Disrespect one of us, you'll see plenty of us. - Gang Starr |
Gaelenus
The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.06 13:43:00 -
[34]
Definatly agree with this one makes no sense whatsoever for a tiny ship to pput a much larger vessel of course by flying at them.
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Ineun
House An'geles
Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2008.10.07 10:23:00 -
[35]
make bumping take a ships mass into account, thats all you need
frigates going 10k ramming battleships 5km at 1000m/s is stupid
the battleship should move about 50m at about 10m/s while the frig rebounds off
:) ohai i is your resident Socialist... |
Belmarduk
M.A.R.S. Enterprises
Majesta Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.07 13:22:00 -
[36]
 Originally by: Ineun
make bumping take a ships mass into account, thats all you need
frigates going 10k ramming battleships 5km at 1000m/s is stupid
the battleship should move about 50m at about 10m/s while the frig rebounds off
Yes the mass of the ships should be taken into consideration.
It is stupid that you can bump a titan with a shuttle....
Mainchar:
Sig removed, only one graphic per sig please. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] - Mitnal
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Cavalera
AWE Corporation
Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2008.10.07 16:05:00 -
[37]
Edited by: Cavalera on 07/10/2008 16:06:59
Originally by: Seeing EyeDog
Originally by: Danton Marcellus
Collision damage now
proposal for jita 4-4?
Also, its been explained SEVERAL times before. You are NOT being bumped, your ship is re-aligning itself to avoid collision. This game mechanic is working as intended.
Fine, have it re-align the YOU part of your statement and not the other ship. If you fly your ship towards someone like that it either needs to take collison damage or YOUR ship needs to be bounced away and not the other ship.
I have seen a tiny frigate fly up fast to a titan and make the titan "bounce" off it at hundreds of KM a second or more.
There is no skill involved and the reason CCP has said it is not an exploit is because they know it is a ton of work to rework it. Im not saying make it realistic, Im saying make it make sense.
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Aiden Bismuth
Gallente
Die Boeremag
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Posted - 2008.10.08 05:53:00 -
[38]
I would have thought that 20,000 years from now, or whenever EVE is set, that a technology would have been developed that makes bumping into another ship/'roid/station irrelevant, and not damaging.
Nice idea, but way too 21st century for EVE.
AB
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Falaricae
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Posted - 2008.10.08 20:47:00 -
[39]
Yes mass and speed needs to be taken in to account when bumping. Keep the bumping until something is done to station games or anything that justify bumping now. I don't see that happening, since webbers will be soon losing some effectiveness and ramming people is realistic way to prevent them from escaping.
As for collision damage no, never, not in a million years. Anyone thinking it needs to answer the following question. Does collision damage count as aggression? If YES does CONCORD get involved? Propably NO since otherwise CONCORD would be the biggest griefer in the game. Just park a noobship on a freighters path and collect the loot after CONCORD delivers quick justice to the aggressor. Even without CONCORD response it's not hard to envision that players would force carebears to accidentally aggro them. Autopiloting anything anywhere would be out of the question, so maybe there should not be aggro from collisions. This would propably introduce a new and funny gank where higsec pirates gangram people to death and CONCORD doesn't react, how realistic would that be? You could avoid some of these problems by implementing hard limits how low your armor/structure can fall, but that would not be realistic, so why change one unrealistic mechanic for another.
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Blastil
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Posted - 2008.10.08 21:27:00 -
[40]
Mass is already taken into effect when it comes to speed. Your ship will not be knocked off alignment if a ship the size of a frig impacts you at 6km/s. I don't know where you've been bumping, but I have NEVER seen a ceptor sucessfully bump anything bigger than a cruiser. I will grant that bumping is a rather cheep tactic, but so is dockwar, and so are many MANY other ways of screwing your fellow man in EVE. I too would like to live in a fantasy world where BS fights happened outside of stations, and neither side docked, Logofski was impossible, and PVP was king, but I don't see how stopping bumping will alter this. if the problem is that small ships should not bump big ships, then this problem is already addressed. They don't.
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KIAEddZ
Caldari
KIA Corp
KIA Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.09 19:32:00 -
[41]
bumping ceratainly needs looking at.
A frigate bumping a titan to 200m/s is just silly.
The physics needs to be looked at for sure.
KIA EVE Home
KIA in game Public Channel "KIA"
KIA are Currently recruiting active PvP minded players. Contact Imperius Blackheart |
Captin Corsair
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Posted - 2008.10.10 08:59:00 -
[42]
If my ship jumps to a few Km/s to avoid a cepter or vaga splatting up the side of my battle cruiser when my top speed is only 180m/s, makes the whole excuse of collision detection and avoidence well, franky, silly.
fix it please ccp, station and gate games are only made more lame by this broken mechanic. |
Esmenet
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Posted - 2008.10.10 10:44:00 -
[43]
Bumping is silly but needed under the current game mechanics.
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NaMorham Santorin
Tech 1 Holdings Limited
Tech Holdings Limited
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Posted - 2008.11.04 08:10:00 -
[44]
Dock wars - lame
Bumping a larger ship to stop them jumping through the gate - just as lame
If it looks like they are going to jump through then part of the group needs to be willing to maybe miss out of the kill mail and be waiting to tackle on the other side
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Shea Klant
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Posted - 2008.11.04 09:15:00 -
[45]
Bumping should be based on each ships mass.
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eliminator2
Gallente
Heretic Army
Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.11.04 09:43:00 -
[46]
actualy i was thinking about this i mean on the trailer of this patch it shows a thanatos flying and crashing into the station and blowing up everyone has bumped a station nothin happens ^^
but then again you think of the large fleet battles and all he asteriod belts you will be pretty much loosin more ships to veldspar or to bumping each other than to an actual fight there for im not supporting this
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Le Skunk
Low Sec Liberators
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Posted - 2008.11.04 11:08:00 -
[47]
Fix undock games FIRST then talk about this issue.
NOT SUPPORTED
SKUNK
Originally by: CCP Navigator
People who think I am joking or talking big are going to understand very quickly that there will be order
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.04 15:26:00 -
[48]
Realistic would be that a overheated MWD interceptor hitting at 8km/s kills any BS in game while killing and podding itself. That would be realistic.
There's nothing wrong with bumping. |
Dogfighter
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Posted - 2008.11.04 18:05:00 -
[49]
Edited by: Dogfighter on 04/11/2008 18:04:47
Originally by: Megumi Satomi
So, you're flying your uber BS towards the gate, having bravely fended of hordes of attacking pirates, then limping the final kilometer, you make it just to jumping distance....
Then, a tiny ship flying at 8000 m/s 'bumps' your kilometer long battleship out of range to jump...
Um excuse me, wheres the significant but not deadly explosion as the interceptor crashes into your huge superstructure?
This game mechanic is not only a much abused tactic but is ridiculously unrealistic (And yes I know this is an internet spaceship game), and you can say "oh its collision detection stuff onboard your ship" but lets be honest, the tactic is too powerful and much abused.
I think the actual result should be the smaller ship "bouncing off" the larger ship. I see that having actual collisions could be very difficult so this I feel is the sensible result.
The smaller ships collision detection bumps it away from the larger ship. The larger ship is no affected. Simple. The only difficulty may be when ships of the same size are bumped.
Or it could be that you are not bounced, merely stopped at a distance from the ship you 'hit'.
I think this can be very easily corrected.
Oh and a good pre-requisite for all CCP developers should be the understanding of basic physics.
If you need some help I suggest the reading of these basic concepts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision
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TornSoul
BIG
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.11.04 20:30:00 -
[50]
Once wasn't much of an issue, and could leisurely be explained away with a bit of techno-RP.
Today (and for a very long time) it *has* become rather a large, and annoying, and exploited issue, dragging the game down.
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.05 00:38:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 05/11/2008 00:38:53
Originally by: Dogfighter
If you need some help I suggest the reading of these basic concepts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elastic_collision
Ahaha, elastic collision with a 40M hunk of metal hits a some 10m of metal plating (top estimate of BS armour based on ingame values) at 8km/s? 
Yeah. Of course.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.05 01:00:00 -
[52]
Whatever it is you come up with... better make sure you don't run into a problem where suddenly you have a pile up in Jita 4.
There are so many frakking ships piled into places in this game where such mechanics would cause mass destruction of ships.
Heck.. just having someone park there big fat ship in front of the exit would be enough to be a problem.
So don't forget to take that into account.
I do agree... ramming should be employed as a tactic in this game.... it would make things... more interesting. 
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.05 20:53:00 -
[53]
If bumping is removed (and it should be), the nano nerf needs to keep people from getting to the gates in under 2 seconds and station undocking needs to be revamped even more. First nano nerf, next station undock, then kill bumping. Collisions will be a huge problem in Jita though. Just going to point that one out.
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Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises
FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.11.05 20:58:00 -
[54]
Originally by: eliminator2
actualy i was thinking about this i mean on the trailer of this patch it shows a thanatos flying and crashing into the station and blowing up everyone has bumped a station nothin happens ^^
but then again you think of the large fleet battles and all he asteriod belts you will be pretty much loosin more ships to veldspar or to bumping each other than to an actual fight there for im not supporting this
I disagree. Last time I bumped a station with my carrier (through a cyno) I rebounded at thousands of meters per second. As far as fleet battles, this would end blobs.
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Lun Coldwell
Lone Star Joint Venture
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Posted - 2008.11.05 23:29:00 -
[55]
Bumping doesn't make any sense from a realistic perspective and breaks immersion.
A small bumblebee of a frigate should not be able to bump a battleship, it should shatter when hitting the ship at such high speeds that are used for bumping causing some damage small damage to the battleship while doing so.
But for gaming purposes, i suppose the frigate need not disintegrate into a little mangled speck of broken metal on the side of the battleship but could instead take some damage.
In short:
-Bumping should be tweaked heavily into a more realistic system.
-Ships that do or recieve the bumping should take damage in correlation to speeds and sizes of the ships involved.
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Ivan Svyatoslav
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Posted - 2008.11.06 01:32:00 -
[56]
Ok, let's look at this from physics. Momentum is equal to mass * velocity, so a Claw interceptor (mass of 1,125,000 kg) moving at 8 km/s has a total momentum of 8000*1125000=9,000,000,000 kg*m/s. If all of its momentum was transferred into, say, a dominix, (mass of 105,000,000 kg) then you have 9000000000/105000000=85.71m/s change in velocity. From what I have seen with bumping that seems pretty close, but it is not perfect, so mabye if they just implemented more realistic collision mechanics things would be better?
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Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 02:30:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/11/2008 02:30:53
Originally by: Lun Coldwell
Bumping doesn't make any sense from a realistic perspective and breaks immersion.
A small bumblebee of a frigate should not be able to bump a battleship, it should shatter when hitting the ship at such high speeds that are used for bumping causing some damage small damage to the battleship while doing so.
Like punching through the BS armour then producing a heated fireball of 1000 tons of molten metal moving at several times the speed of sound through the battleship? Yeah, something like that, roughly.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Digaph
Gallente
Concrete Developments
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Posted - 2008.11.06 10:16:00 -
[58]
ok, talk about realism.
I fail to see why it ain't realistic. Guys we have to remember it's space here and there is nothing preventing a huge object from accelerating heavily when an object of whatever size and mass is colliding into it.
If we do want realism so badly, then how come I have to keep my AB running in order to maintain speed? As there is nothing slowing me down in space I should just be going forever until I decide to slow it down, but slowing down should require power, just as much as accelerating would.
There is no sound in space, so please remove all explosion sounds.
There is no reason why a large object would be slower and less agile then a smaller ship. Again it's space!
Now I agree we don't need the above to change, and yes, we might do something about the annoying bumping problem. But please don't demand such a change to make it more realistic, as that simply ain't the case!
Cheers,
Digaph
"I'm not a complete idiot...
...some parts are missing" |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.11.06 12:47:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Digaph
Now I agree we don't need the above to change, and yes, we might do something about the annoying bumping problem. But please don't demand such a change to make it more realistic, as that simply ain't the case!
To be honest, there is nothing wrong with bumping, and it is needed for a lot of purposes.
I agree that realism should be out, because the realistic thing would be enabling interceptors&frigates to do suicide ramming rather then bumping, and I don't think people would be particularly happy with being one-shotted by a suiciding interceptor (which is realistic really).
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Boknamar
Gallente
The Knights Trevor
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Posted - 2008.11.07 01:50:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Aiden Bismuth
I would have thought that 20,000 years from now, or whenever EVE is set, that a technology would have been developed that makes bumping into another ship/'roid/station irrelevant, and not damaging.
Nice idea, but way too 21st century for EVE.
AB
The bumping mechanic is justified by its necessity in the game. Technological/RP explanations don't work. They just don't.
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