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Bumping??? Thats realistic...

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Megumi Satomi	Posted - 2008.09.23 15:03:00 - [1] So, you're flying your uber BS towards the gate, having bravely fended of hordes of attacking pirates, then limping the final kilometer, you make it just to jumping distance.... Then, a tiny ship flying at 8000 m/s 'bumps' your kilometer long battleship out of range to jump... Um excuse me, wheres the significant but not deadly explosion as the interceptor crashes into your huge superstructure? This game mechanic is not only a much abused tactic but is ridiculously unrealistic (And yes I know this is an internet spaceship game), and you can say "oh its collision detection stuff onboard your ship" but lets be honest, the tactic is too powerful and much abused. I think the actual result should be the smaller ship "bouncing off" the larger ship. I see that having actual collisions could be very difficult so this I feel is the sensible result. The smaller ships collision detection bumps it away from the larger ship. The larger ship is no affected. Simple. The only difficulty may be when ships of the same size are bumped. Or it could be that you are not bounced, merely stopped at a distance from the ship you 'hit'.
Lori Carlyle Aztec Industry	Posted - 2008.09.23 15:33:00 - [2] Bumping is stupid, CCP really need to work on it.
Tmarte Caldari Explora Empire	Posted - 2008.09.23 18:24:00 - [3] The ships must be equipped with repulsorlift coils. //end star wars reference
Dizeezer Velar Caldari League of Disgruntled Fast Food Employees	Posted - 2008.09.23 18:50:00 - [4] Edited by: Dizeezer Velar on 23/09/2008 18:52:27 end the need for bumping and you eliminate bumping. Currently there are so many mechanics in place to avoid pvp it all gets a little boring. (ie redocking, re-approaching gate and jumping out, about to get worse with web nerf.)
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.09.23 19:25:00 - [5] I think someone is compensating for the lack of bumper cars in their youth. Yes bumping is lame as all hell. Collision damage now and let the small ships worry about staying out of the way of the bigger ones. It goes without saying that the docking game needs to get sorted, it's on the 5+ year short order list. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
Drake Draconis	Posted - 2008.09.23 19:27:00 - [6] DAMN THE TORPEDOS! RAMMING SPEED! Frigate smacks into Destroyer killing both in a glory of explosive pwm4g3 That would change alot of things...but before you go off on the bumping thing..did you bother to take into account undocking at a busy station with ships stacked on top of each other? oops.. didn't think about that did yah. Might wana fix that first..and then some...before you visit this problem.
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.23 19:30:00 - [7] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Collision damage now proposal for jita 4-4? Also, its been explained SEVERAL times before. You are NOT being bumped, your ship is re-aligning itself to avoid collision. This game mechanic is working as intended. _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Lori Carlyle Aztec Industry	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:16:00 - [8] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Danton Marcellus Collision damage now proposal for jita 4-4? Also, its been explained SEVERAL times before. You are NOT being bumped, your ship is re-aligning itself to avoid collision. This game mechanic is working as intended. If my ship can Re-align at that speed to avoid a collision, why can't it align at the same speed for entering warp?
Megumi Satomi	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:17:00 - [9] No, didnt think about the busy undocking thing, but thats fine anyway, they just stack up, no one bounces about like a tom and jerry version of space combat! Im not saying do collision damage, just get rid of the ability to 'bump' ships around, it is only a valid tactic because it has always been in the game. If it wasnt then another tactic would be used, maybe people would actually use 'tactics' instead of dumb as hell game mechanics. sorry, but i just dont see how a little frigate could possibly make a battleship/dread/freighter spin around and be bumped away by ramming it. if it is supposed to be collision detection, then the ramming ship should be the one stopped/moved not the target of the ramming. Or, like I said, the bigger ship is unmoved. So yes, a big ship could ram a smaller ship aside, but how many times do you see a BS fly at you at 14000 m/s? It gets a little boring hearing people moan about unfair/unrealistic tactics being removed from the game. this is a game, but in the scheme of things it is supposed to be quite realistic feeling environment, and bumping is probably the single most unrealistic factor in Eve. And no, ive never been ganked by being bumped so im not just moaning, the only time ive ever had it done to me I was in an Ares and just flew back to the gate and jumped anyway... Im addressing it purely because it dumb.
DEATHsyphon Gallente IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:24:00 - [10] Bumping has already been nerfed so that smaller ships cant really bump bigger ships as well as in the past. Also there is Warp to 0 so no need to slow boat to a gate so the scenario you offer is flawed unless you took the risk to AP through a hostile area in which you were given a popup asking if you want to proceed into said dangerous area. So in the either case warping through or jumping into a dangerous place does require consequence. - DS /me hugs -------------------- I'm not not going to pod you!
Seeing EyeDog	Posted - 2008.09.23 20:48:00 - [11] Originally by: Lori Carlyle Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Danton Marcellus Collision damage now proposal for jita 4-4? Also, its been explained SEVERAL times before. You are NOT being bumped, your ship is re-aligning itself to avoid collision. This game mechanic is working as intended. If my ship can Re-align at that speed to avoid a collision, why can't it align at the same speed for entering warp? emergency-only uses? you're totally arguing for something that is easily defended by role play reasons _____________________ Originally by: Locus Bey Intelligence isn't a prequisite for being a Goon, in fact its a deficit.
Rin Ji	Posted - 2008.09.23 21:12:00 - [12] Bumping and the consequential "realignment" should simply take the mass of the bumping objects into consideration. Divide mass by the speed of it and you get the power of impact applied to the mass. An interceptor bumping a battleship should go bouncing way off that way while the BS's navigation system still calculates what caused its ten meters deviation. Since it is the way it is now, it's also a valid tactics, too. No need to not think about improvements, though .supported.
Lori Carlyle Aztec Industry	Posted - 2008.09.23 21:27:00 - [13] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog emergency-only uses? you're totally arguing for something that is easily defended by role play reasons Your tank is failing, why can't it Emergency re-a;ign then?, maybe the ship blowing up isn't an emergency? You can't say one thing but ignore the other "role play" reasons, now I hate role playing, but if you can get a BS to move at stupid speeds and say it "oh you havn't been hit, your just moving out the way" and with that move take no damage nor use cap when why can't I under the same "idea" have my ship move at that speed for other emergency reasons? I'm not saying that your wrong, I'm saying teh game mechanic is stupid and needs looking at.
Danton Marcellus Nebula Rasa Holdings	Posted - 2008.09.24 02:14:00 - [14] Originally by: Seeing EyeDog Originally by: Danton Marcellus Collision damage now proposal for jita 4-4? Also, its been explained SEVERAL times before. You are NOT being bumped, your ship is re-aligning itself to avoid collision. This game mechanic is working as intended. Multiple undocking points for one and the system differing between actions taken when players are in control of their vessel rather than being chucked out from a station or gate. Should/would/could have, HAVE you chav! Also Known As
SickSeven	Posted - 2008.09.24 02:39:00 - [15] yes a frigate bumping a massive BS any significant distance without taking massive damage to itself is well, silly.
Ivena Amethyst	Posted - 2008.09.24 08:42:00 - [16] let's say they implement collision damage would the damage only aply aover a certain speed? what happends if you warp to your gang and land inside another ship? what happens when you warp to 0 and land inside a gate? how much damage would a bc take from accidently craching into his gangmate bs? would a nano-dread crushwtfpwn anything under bs's if they ram them at enough speed? would a titan warping into a blob crash-damage all ships it comes within bump-range from? what happends when you warp your mining barge/exhumer to 0 to your bookmarked max-sized veld-roid and land inside it? I agree that bumping is unrealistic, but i'd rather get my bs bumped out at 1.5km/s from someones warp landing inside it then getting it damaged in the same scenario.
Carniflex StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.09.24 09:52:00 - [17] I think current bumping mechaniks suks.
Megumi Satomi	Posted - 2008.09.24 11:20:00 - [18] Many a battle is fought at a gate or station, not talking about autopiloting through dangerous ares, thats just stupid. Im not talking about collision damage, with the (complete lack of) ship control in eve, that wouldnt work, I'm talking about the completely ridiculous tactic of ramming ships in order to hold them at a position where they can not escape. There are many ways to do this legitimatly with mods/bubbles etc so there is no valid reason for this to be a required tactic, it is more like an exploit of game mechanics and as I said its so far from realistic that it does take away alot of the realistic feel the game should have. Collision detection would not make a BS turn away from its destination due to a frigate ramming it from the side..., the colision detection system would stop the frigate from reaching the BS. Simple and obvious. The only people who support this as a tactic are people who use it because they cant otherwise stop a ship escaping. I never complain about losing a ship in a fight, fair or not, but i'd be pretty ****ed if I lost a billion isk ship because a frigate kept knocking me out of alignment and a bunch of incompetent pirates managed to kill me even though they had no scram/bubble/web or firepower to do so without this silly game mechanic. Not that I have any billion isk ships.
Gotrek65 Brimstone Order R-I-P	Posted - 2008.09.24 11:43:00 - [19] Originally by: Tmarte The ships must be equipped with repulsorlift coils. //end star wars reference supported
Nexus Vaikai IRON CROSS LEGION SYSTEM SHOCK INITIATIVE	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:50:00 - [20] As an inty pilot myself my first nature would be to disagree with this topic but for the reasons listed bumping is not realistic.. if there was a collision detection the computer would therefore be unable to set a course into another ship thus changing the course to stay the heck away from larger objects. Seriously both ships should be taking damage if they attempt to ram at speeds greater than 1k/s seems logical. Or have a skill that's needed to override the computer to allow "bumping" Join Perfect Tyranny.
Pithecanthropus	Posted - 2008.09.24 22:10:00 - [21] Bumping is such a joke... it needs a realistic fix, and quite possibly give out structural damage. --------------------------------- Pithecanthropus erectus, a name derived from Greek and Latin roots meaning upright ape-man.
Mister Xerox	Posted - 2008.09.25 06:20:00 - [22] Bumping should not cause damage (due to landing in stations, gates, other ships) when coming out of warp, unless there's a certain timer that allows you to move outside the object before you 'come back into phase' with the surrounding space (during which you're invulnerable to such things as smartbombs, bombs, ect. and can't be targeted. This will allow people to load their grid during short-lag situations). Otherwise... the mass of a ship should determine which is affected by a bounce, the lighter ship suffering the larger deviation on collision (if the colliding ship is small enough it goes off in some random direction while the larger ship is unmoved). That will put 'bumping' into the hands of BS pilots, not interceptors.
Jonas Vinthyn Cassandra's Light Caeruleum Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.25 14:59:00 - [23] Originally by: Rin Ji Bumping and the consequential "realignment" should simply take the mass of the bumping objects into consideration. Divide mass by the speed of it and you get the power of impact applied to the mass. An interceptor bumping a battleship should go bouncing way off that way while the BS's navigation system still calculates what caused its ten meters deviation. My POS - POS Fitting and Fuel Calc Stats!
procurement specialist	Posted - 2008.09.25 16:11:00 - [24] Originally by: Ivena Amethyst let's say they implement collision damage would the damage only aply aover a certain speed? what happends if you warp to your gang and land inside another ship? what happens when you warp to 0 and land inside a gate? how much damage would a bc take from accidently craching into his gangmate bs? would a nano-dread crushwtfpwn anything under bs's if they ram them at enough speed? would a titan warping into a blob crash-damage all ships it comes within bump-range from? what happends when you warp your mining barge/exhumer to 0 to your bookmarked max-sized veld-roid and land inside it? I agree that bumping is unrealistic, but i'd rather get my bs bumped out at 1.5km/s from someones warp landing inside it then getting it damaged in the same scenario. bumping damage isn't implemented until 1 second after warp completes a you phase back in. hence you rocket off but don't take damage.
Tempest Inferno Davy Jones Locker Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.27 13:26:00 - [25] Edited by: Tempest Inferno on 27/09/2008 13:30:56 If this is collision prevention then the current method is broken. The sensors of the ship flying towards an object should simply calculate the size, course, and speed of the object in its path then perform a two stage ignition of the forward maneuvering thrusters. Stage 1: Drop speed and shift course to avoid object Stage 2: Return to original course and speed Neither ship goes off in a random direction at insane speeds. The ship avoiding collision drops in speed maybe 10% - 20% to maintain stable flight. In this way a frigate will have to fly a ways around a battleship or capital while the battleship or capital simply changes course 2-3 degrees well in advance to avoid the small ship. If you want to keep a guy away from a gate or a station simply get a large enough fleet to form a wall and prevent the ship from approaching. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Miss KillSome Caldari School of Applied Knowledge	Posted - 2008.09.29 18:24:00 - [26] Originally by: Tempest Inferno Edited by: Tempest Inferno on 27/09/2008 13:30:56 If you want to keep a guy away from a gate or a station simply get a large enough fleet to form a wall and prevent the ship from approaching. Yes, create more blobage, please..
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.29 21:07:00 - [27] Originally by: Danton Marcellus Collision damage now undock explode
Tempest Inferno Davy Jones Locker Einherjar Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.29 21:34:00 - [28] Originally by: Miss KillSome Originally by: Tempest Inferno Edited by: Tempest Inferno on 27/09/2008 13:30:56 If you want to keep a guy away from a gate or a station simply get a large enough fleet to form a wall and prevent the ship from approaching. Yes, create more blobage, please.. I don't care about blobs as any plan to change bumping would only result in bring in more ships so you dont have to bump them to kill them. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kadoes Khan	Posted - 2008.09.30 04:47:00 - [29] I agree with this. I don't think small frigates bumping larger ships to be of much benefit to the game. Although this problem likely started occurring because of dock/undock tactics which need re-evaluation to. -=^=- "Someday the world will recognize the genius in my insanity."
Another Forum'Alt	Posted - 2008.09.30 12:25:00 - [30] Fix bumping. Exploits becoming 'features' ftl.

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