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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
EVIL SYNNs Minmatar dearg doom	Posted - 2008.09.24 13:59:00 - [31] No Down Time! Don't even joke I have 1 hour a day to do my work!
Neermark JotunHeim Hird X13 Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:20:00 - [32] Originally by: CCP Prism X For those that are interested the recent delays are due to us testing architectural changes on the live environment. We need a controllable environment as close to TQ actual as possible. So we use TQ just after startup. I'm sure it's annoying now but I'm also quite sure you'll forgive us once the collected data is used to improve your experience in the future. Is this the long awaited Infiniband alpha testing or is it part of the Walking In Station project ? Or something else ?
Hungo Minmatar Dusty Death Enterprise	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:24:00 - [33] Originally by: Gunner Yes it is starting to ** me off, every day 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there extra downtime after 12:00 GMT. What ever happened to the promise we would not need any DT at all?????? untill CCP can clear buffers, reload bug fixes etc without taking the servers down we will always have lag, downtimes extended, patch ** ups. Bottom line is ccp is no where near the league of companys such as Sony and Blizzard. Simply because they don't have what it takes, they do not care about the community, EVE itself has taken a back seat and tbh is a dieing game - they know this. so why would they bother? Ingame is the Same - 0.0 is being Over run by BOB n it's allies (GBC) more flock to its banner every day. Very soon all 0.0 will be held under bob and allies. Why fix the lag? No need, bob are managing fine. Small example but will give you the full answer if you think about it
Zezug Caldari Vice And Valour	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:29:00 - [34] Oh yes, Blizzard has a much better system. Not really. Rather than the server being down for about an hour a day, its down for 6-7 hours on one day during the week. And that gets extended quite often too. So I don't see how CCP is any worse with that. And Blizzard has had plenty of dumb things happen too.
Silam Ryder	Posted - 2008.09.24 14:31:00 - [35] Originally by: Hungo Originally by: Gunner Yes it is starting to ** me off, every day 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there extra downtime after 12:00 GMT. What ever happened to the promise we would not need any DT at all?????? untill CCP can clear buffers, reload bug fixes etc without taking the servers down we will always have lag, downtimes extended, patch ** ups. Bottom line is ccp is no where near the league of companys such as Sony and Blizzard. Simply because they don't have what it takes, they do not care about the community, EVE itself has taken a back seat and tbh is a dieing game - they know this. so why would they bother? Ingame is the Same - 0.0 is being Over run by BOB n it's allies (GBC) more flock to its banner every day. Very soon all 0.0 will be held under bob and allies. Why fix the lag? No need, bob are managing fine. Small example but will give you the full answer if you think about it I like you, youre intel provider is clearly amongst the best. Have you seen the influence map lately? BoB hasnt overrun 0.0, neither has its allies. So please stop talking crap about stuff you dont have a clue about. How did you even manage to bring BoB into a downtime discussion? children :/ so straight forward and simple minded...
Ethidium Bromide Amarr ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:21:00 - [36] Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 24/09/2008 16:21:24 Originally by: CCP Prism X As a side note, because I like saying this time and again: DTs are not done for the sake of the DB. Any regular DB maintenance can be run with the DB online in this day and age. so why is it there i always thought that was the reason. as i know close to nothing about anything beyond my keayboard, mouse and monitor i am really interested in some expalnations that transform into half knowledge in my brains Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Aprudena Gist GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:36:00 - [37] Originally by: Hungo Originally by: Gunner Yes it is starting to ** me off, every day 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there extra downtime after 12:00 GMT. What ever happened to the promise we would not need any DT at all?????? untill CCP can clear buffers, reload bug fixes etc without taking the servers down we will always have lag, downtimes extended, patch ** ups. Bottom line is ccp is no where near the league of companys such as Sony and Blizzard. Simply because they don't have what it takes, they do not care about the community, EVE itself has taken a back seat and tbh is a dieing game - they know this. so why would they bother? Ingame is the Same - 0.0 is being Over run by BOB n it's allies (GBC) more flock to its banner every day. Very soon all 0.0 will be held under bob and allies. Why fix the lag? No need, bob are managing fine. Small example but will give you the full answer if you think about it Have you even looked at a Sovereignty map before? the really only have hold in the south west and are starting to gain traction in the north east.
MotherMoon Huang Yinglong	Posted - 2008.09.24 16:48:00 - [38] Bob is over running space? lol? Oh and Sony and Blizzard are much better :P
MailDeadDrop Archon Industries	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Chribba NO! Keep the DT's. Addicts gotta eat sometime to survive! If you can't eat while playing, you're doing it wrong. That said, we need to keep the DTs so that the addicts can tend to "personal hygiene". I am slightly surprised that CCP hasn't made the DT schedule more regionally "fair", by having the start times different on different days. But since there are now some game mechanics tangled up in the DTs (e.g. junk in space cleanup), having the DTs start at different times might be unworkable. MDD Jump Clones: 8M and NO corp switching

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:12:00 - [40] Originally by: Ethidium Bromide so why is it there For the same reason I restart my work- and home-station every now and then when things are getting a little sluggish. I reckon that is the same reason any other MMO server goes down, be it daily, weekly, biweekly, monthly or however far they're willing to push the performance degradation. Although they probably are doing something else as they usually also take more (like we do with our downtime jobs which are a necessary part of current game logic). It's not as alien of a concept as many make it out to be. You wouldn't expect your windows machine to run perfectly ad infinitum. We need our servers as close to perfection as we can so we reboot them frequently. I'm quite certain that in a perfect world we could refactor most of the code so it could withstand constant uptime until the hardware fails but seeing as Microsoft is happy with me having to restart my box every now and then (ok to be fair it's not really MS, it's also all the other applications I run and how they interface with the OS.) I'm certain it's not very practical to attempt. Yes, I'm admitting that MS has larger R&D resources than us. But do not misconstrue me as saying that we're not trying. I'm currently delegated to a Task Force that is investigating CPU per Session increase since the Empyrean Age. We're always fighting lag on all fronts, trying to squeeze out more performance from every layer. Restarting the servers is one of our weapons and it's quite handy. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Ethidium Bromide Amarr ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:18:00 - [41] Originally by: CCP Prism X Originally by: Ethidium Bromide so why is it there answer ethi almost understands so there is no OS or whatever you need for servers that is able to 'take its trash out' if i understand that correctly it was about time someone invented one and gave me the money they make from it! Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.

CCP Prism X Gallente C C P	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:32:00 - [42] I'm really just using the OS as an example of a complex application that the average computer user can relate to. In hindsight I realize that I probably just made room for some heated debate as to what OS we should run on our sol servers. ~ Prism X EvE Database Developer Relocating your character to a cozy, secure container since 2006. Relocating your cozy, secure container to the EVE cemetery since 2008.

Ethidium Bromide Amarr ZEALOT WARRIORS AGAINST TERRORISTS Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:33:00 - [43] Edited by: Ethidium Bromide on 24/09/2008 17:33:35 Originally by: CCP Prism X I'm really just using the OS as an example of a complex application that the average computer user can relate to. In hindsight I realize that I probably just made room for some heated debate as to what OS we should run on our sol servers. edit it away and i will pretend it never happened Originally by: George Petsch Nochricht: Dei schwarer StroinlSser trifftn Karli[Baatzis] und ruiniert erm so richtig de Dosn, 1343.7 schhodn, oida.
Juliette Leblanc Gallente Federal Navy Academy	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:36:00 - [44] Before installing (and using) EvE, the only times I had to reboot my Mac was after heavy system updates. And all my servers only reboot when I need to patch the kernel to fix some known exploitable bug in any of the services that I actually run on that specific server. I have one server that restarted only once in almost three years, and the reason is that it's hosted in my apartment, I was on a 3 weeks vacation, there was a problem with the building electrical wiring and they switched off each of the apartment mains forgetting to switch mine back on when the problem was fixed. My UPS did not have sufficient capacity to last until I came back home. Of course I do NOT use Windows on servers.
Henry Loenwind	Posted - 2008.09.24 17:37:00 - [45] Originally by: CCP Prism X For the same reason I restart my work- and home-station every now and then when things are getting a little sluggish. Now let's translate the Aussies' situation to your work day: 09:00 am: You start working 11:30 am: You start rebooting your workstation as per company policy 02:30 pm: Your workstation has finished rebooting, you continue working 05:00 pm: You go home, having to leave your workstation running as per company policy Now, what would you say if you'd have to work this way? And now imagine, some day the reboots start to take an hour longer or so... For someone who has the 1 hour downtime in the middle of his 3 hour evening, it hurts to lose 20 minutes extra. However, according to the forum, those people should start to get a life by quitting their jobs, so they can play when there is no downtime. Sounds reasonable---for a four-year old child. Originally by: Decard Sune on 23/03/2008 12:12:37 Carebear is a derogatory term used by those who feel that every player should be nothing mroe than a target for their pleasure. These individuals usually ha
BetterOffDead	Posted - 2008.09.24 22:41:00 - [46] Originally by: CCP Prism X It's not as alien of a concept as many make it out to be. You wouldn't expect your windows machine to run perfectly ad infinitum. We need our servers as close to perfection as we can so we reboot them frequently. I'm quite certain that in a perfect world we could refactor most of the code so it could withstand constant uptime until the hardware fails but seeing as Microsoft is happy with me having to restart my box every now and then (ok to be fair it's not really MS, it's also all the other applications I run and how they interface with the OS.) I'm certain it's not very practical to attempt. Yes, I'm admitting that MS has larger R&D resources than us. With respect I think you should be shooting for a better target state then saying because MS make crap products yours can be of a state where you to have to bounce servers daily and that's the only effective weapon in the kit to keep gameplay stable. Maybe it's in a different time zone but I'm yet to hit the daily Google DT.
Constance Harme	Posted - 2008.09.24 23:06:00 - [47] Originally by: Chribba NO! Keep the DT's. Addicts gotta eat sometime to survive! I thought you ate veldspar.
Elden VanVoiden Caldari Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.09.29 20:31:00 - [48] TBH I get the downtime thing, I really, I have no problem with it! BUT! Why does it have to be while I am on my lunch break at work, this being pretty much the only time I have in which to play? Seriously what wrong with 10AM GMT or something...? Come on PrismX WHY lunch time? why oh for the love of god, WHY? ;-)
sg3s Battlestars GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.09.29 22:57:00 - [49] The solution to an ever running system these days is of course a very redundant system... The problem with this is however, that it can be quite expensive... Lets say we have one database server right now, on it's own very redundant with data... but the system will go down for a reboot... If you want to make the system redundant while keeping it online and running I think you need at least 3 servers... Of which two are running continually, third can be in a reboot cycle... I don't think I need to mention how this would triple costs related to the server... anyway, I can live with the downtime. And as mentioned, in the end it is not the database that needs the reboot, but the OS running it...
Elden VanVoiden Caldari Universal Moose Foundation	Posted - 2008.09.30 09:23:00 - [50] As I said I can live with the downtime too, just not with the time when it occurs! Come on CCP show you care.... WHY is it at lunch? There are so many casual gamers out there who simply wont play EVE because you turn the servers OFF when they are able to play!
Sleepkevert Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.09.30 09:44:00 - [51] Originally by: Henry Loenwind Now let's translate the Aussies' situation to your work day: 09:00 am: You start working 11:30 am: You start rebooting your workstation as per company policy 02:30 pm: Your workstation has finished rebooting, you continue working 05:00 pm: You go home, having to leave your workstation running as per company policy Now, what would you say if you'd have to work this way? Oh yes, separate reboots per timezone every night... Wait.. what? The reboot happens at a time that is comfortable for CCP. They still need to do some maintenance to it every day, or test stuff during downtime. It just happens to be you are in a bad spot... _ Add your own line!
Misanth RABBLE RABBLE RABBLE	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:04:00 - [52] Originally by: Gunner Yes it is starting to **** me off, every day 10 minutes here, 20 minutes there extra downtime after 12:00 GMT. What ever happened to the promise we would not need any DT at all?????? I'm too lazy to read replies, just gonna state the obvious; One or two days ago servers went up after 35-40min downtime, I'd say the 20-25min time we "won" that time balances out what we lost another day. Not to mention I rather have ~1h every day than losing half a day a week, my addiction would never cope, the stress it'd put me through. :( Plus, a man has to shower sometimes.
fuze Gallente Chosen Path Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:11:00 - [53] All nonsense. Its the time needed to clean the hamster cages. And then its an extra 10-20 min workout session so they run faster. tl;dr Hamsters having fitness
Naran Darkmood Gallente MC Cubed 101010 Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:17:00 - [54] Originally by: Chribba Originally by: Gunner What ever happened to the promise we would not need any DT at all?????? Was there ever any? Not that I can recall seeing anyway. When the world was young and EVE in beta, there were Devs who promised to move to a weekly downtime after the first issues after launch had settled...
Graic	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:39:00 - [55] Originally by: Sleepkevert The reboot happens at a time that is comfortable for CCP. Depends on what you mean by comfort - I think you mean fortunate. I'd be prepared to bet a substantial sum that if the current DT time fell anywhere near prime time US gaming time CCP would be doing this thing at any other time. And you have to take into account the impact here. There's not a whole lot you can substantially do in the hour or so before DT. I can't imagine a quick dash as "World's Collide" would be something you would always want to tackle 45 minutes before DT. It can be frustrating week after week and so much more when DT overruns. So CCP would never risk that market. Which makes this an obvious play of profit over anything else - which is fair enough by some measures. Far flung places, they are only ever going to complain about DT, latency - so why bother. However, by other measures it defies a bit of logic. A quick look at the world map: http://www.tiglion.com/travel/region/timezone.htm If DT were a couple of hours earlier closer to the international dateline the impact on geography (and to a greater extent population density) would be far, far less. Yeah agreed it changes the CCP work day slightly - but I don't exactly feel that it's not aligned to their company statement: http://www.ccpgames.com/company/default.asp Quote: CCP is founded on the principle of pushing the envelope and breaking new grounds on all levels. I'm not asking for the envelope to be pushed here - just some consideration/discussion for moving DT to a more logical place. As has already been stated here DB backups don't require a DT - anyone with a passing knowledge of database technologies can tell you that - and placing the main pain point on dodgy operating systems seems a heck of a cop out to be frank. I can appreciate that the Architecture is complex - there are an amazing amount of balls in the air - missions, markets, systems etc. However, a system I usually visit doesn't load for a few minutes after EVE is up (I can log in with other characters based in other systems) and your regional market does not always load straight away - so there is obviously some concept of multi-streaming in the EVE DT/startup process. It wouldn't take much of a stretch to visualise a "rolling" or "phased" DT - but these fundamental changes don't seem to be on the radar in any significant way despite a creaking architecture. For instance, tonight we're having an update to implement restrictions on the number of people in systems. I'm not seeing us moving closer to epic fleet battles - instead the further hobbling game mechanics to prop up another issue with the EVE architecture. I'm not trying to totally tear down CCP here - I love the concept of EVE, when I've had the time to invest it's been a great experience - but I'm not seeing uptime/performance to match the hype. Cheers.
Tuttomenui II Gallente kungfuhammers	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Chribba NO! Keep the DT's. Addicts gotta eat sometime to survive! Yeah we wouldnt be able to live without DT, and if DT was aliminated and we lost Chribba to hunger and starvation, It would be a sad EVE. So Please Gaurantee Chribbas continued existance by keeping DT in place and 1 hour long.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.09.30 10:53:00 - [57] Originally by: Crumplecorn Originally by: CCP Prism X As to the promise of now DTs, I've heard about it as an internal discussion. I do hope there are no official promises about that as the downtime is now a part of many game mechanics. I believe it was a reference to a 'promise' from back when EVE was in Beta, when it was (so I hear) thought that daily DTs would not be needed once the game was running properly. Think I could eve-search this or find it somehow? Sounds like an epic quote to find. Is it findable or on some beta forum or something that has been long erased? -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Dmian Gallente Starline Engineering Corporation	Posted - 2008.09.30 11:00:00 - [58] I have nothing against DTs. Whatever it takes to keep the game running smoothly is ok and appreciated. But the main difference between me restarting my PC and you restarting Eve serverS is that you have many of them. Can't they be restarted in cascade I mean, restart one, with a transient load asigned to another node, so you can keep the game running? (albeit, with minor lag or inconvenieces.) Just a question that popped in my head, no mean to bother or criticize you in any form. ---- Eve Alpha - The font of Eve - Get it here
Brunnis Jetrel Gallente Shining Horses Black Sun Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.30 11:14:00 - [59] cant CCP just ban anyone from an IP originating in the southern hemisphere, that way you wouldn't have them whining !
Mioelnir Minmatar Meltd0wn iPOD Alliance	Posted - 2008.09.30 11:29:00 - [60] Originally by: Dmian I have nothing against DTs. Whatever it takes to keep the game running smoothly is ok and appreciated. But the main difference between me restarting my PC and you restarting Eve serverS is that you have many of them. Can't they be restarted in cascade I mean, restart one, with a transient load asigned to another node, so you can keep the game running? (albeit, with minor lag or inconvenieces.) Just a question that popped in my head, no mean to bother or criticize you in any form. Freezing a node and transfering the gamestate to another one will most probably take too long with the current network deployed on TQ.

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