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RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:51:00 -
[31] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Again, note the man him self agrees with CCP (snip) Debatable. In his little speech to his Alliance, he states that CCP has "thrown him under the bus".
Hes full of double talk and double think. Not a shock.
Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish into thin air. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
525
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Amity Lane wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Again, note the man him self agrees with CCP (snip) Debatable. In his little speech to his Alliance, he states that CCP has "thrown him under the bus". Right, because they did xD but he knows it had to be done. he doesn't blame them for ti, he blames the booze. CCP really came down hard, but he was expected it once he saw what he said. He knew was he would of done if he was in thier position. And it's mostly a PR thing. edit: ahhh, what the heck, I'm down for the recount. just like the 10,000 place their bets for the new head of the CSM. that's fair.
A lot of out of game people im talking to think he got off light.
And after listening to his goonswarm speech. I kinda agree with them.
Still Im happy CCP took action so I bought some pelx and used some aurum even though im against the NEX store I gave them money for doing something right. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish into thin air. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 04:59:00 -
[33] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Ok. I'll give this one last go, but it's frustrating when you keep presenting logical arguments only for the person you're debating to essentially plug their ears and go "I refuse to listen, and will instead regurgitate my same flawed logic near-verbatim".
10,000+ votes were counted. Mittani won. That's why he had a position to be removed from. The voices were heard...that's how we know how many of them there were. They were counted, not "disregarded".
Mittani won the CSM7 election.Nobody is debating that.
His own conduct, however, led to his removal from that position. Post-election. He will now be replaced by an alternate, which is exactly why they're there in the first place.
TL;DR: You voted for someone who got themselves thrown out of office, and now have to live with the consequences of that choice.
Leaving this topic to other people to debate now, because after this I can't explain it any more clearly. The important bit that you and everyone in this thread keeps missing is in your TLDR: You voted for someone who got themselves thrown out of office, and now have to live with the consequences of that choice.
I voted for someone who got thrown out, yes. I at the same time do not have to 'live with the consequences' as you put it. I can request for CCP to either reinstate Mittens as a regular member of the CSM, allow the 10000 to revote or have an entire redo of the CSM process. Your opinion is that I should just ~deal wit it~ and mine is that 10000 voices were silenced. We have different opinions and the CSM is cheapened by it. You deal with it. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:01:00 -
[34] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Amity Lane wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Again, note the man him self agrees with CCP (snip) Debatable. In his little speech to his Alliance, he states that CCP has "thrown him under the bus". Hes full of double talk and double think. Not a shock. Easy to crucify a man from behind the anonymity of the internet. Get thrilled in a fire. |
Poetic Stanziel
Major Kong Freight
787
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
from CSM Revote - It's a CSM Decision, Not a CCP Decision
There are now calls for a revote from many in the community. Most feel, that with 10000 votes now invalidated, that any person that assumes the Chair, that they do not hold a mandate for that position. That's a valid argument to make.
(From what has been coming out of the CSM, none of the current top six members are particularly eager to assume the Chair. Because they lack a mandate, to do so would likely be political suicide in future CSMs.)
Most of the calls are for CCP to invalidate the previous election, to run a new election. The problem is that the decision is not one that CCP can make. They have their CSM rules in place. Someone resigns or is given the boot, someone else assumes their position. In this case, position fifteen makes it into CSM7, since CSM7 has yet to begin.
The only people who can make a strong statement for a reelection would be the current CSM. All thirteen members would need to resign enmasse.
If that were to happen, then CCP has three choices:
- Select for the CSM the next fourteen candidates. This would likely not be a popular choice, and the riots we saw last summer would be dwarfed by the riots we would see if this were to happen.
- Spend two weeks and run a new, quickie election. This is no skin off CCP's back. Reset the election software, activate it again. It's not like it costs CCP any money.
- Disband the CSM for the 2012-2013 campaign year. Again, this would not be a popular choice.
CCP's only logical option would be to go with the second choice.
There's likely no danger to the current candidates (except Issler Dainze.) Every candidate that got elected, should get elected again. There might be some minor shuffling of positions. Of course, Trebor will lose another night of sleep, EVEmails will need to be sent out again.
The benefit to the current candidates is that a clear mandate for the chair will emerge -- likely whoever replaces The Mittani as the CFC candidate. Also of benefit, Issler Dainze will not get re-elected, someone more worthy and willing to participate on the CCP/CSM Skype channel would replace her.
I see little downside to any of the thirteen remaining CSM members if they were to resign with the express purpose of forcing CCP to rerun the CSM7 election. Only twelve will resign (Issler won't), but that should be enough of a message to force CCP's hand on the issue.
Personally, I don't care either way. I think Two Step would make for a fine CSM Chair, and over the course of the term, I believe any initial ill will would fade. In the end people would agree that he did a fine job in the role. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
528
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:05:00 -
[36] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:from CSM Revote - It's a CSM Decision, Not a CCP DecisionThere are now calls for a revote from many in the community. Most feel, that with 10000 votes now invalidated, that any person that assumes the Chair, that they do not hold a mandate for that position. That's a valid argument to make. (From what has been coming out of the CSM, none of the current top six members are particularly eager to assume the Chair. Because they lack a mandate, to do so would likely be political suicide in future CSMs.) Most of the calls are for CCP to invalidate the previous election, to run a new election. The problem is that the decision is not one that CCP can make. They have their CSM rules in place. Someone resigns or is given the boot, someone else assumes their position. In this case, position fifteen makes it into CSM7, since CSM7 has yet to begin. The only people who can make a strong statement for a reelection would be the current CSM. All thirteen members would need to resign enmasse. If that were to happen, then CCP has three choices: - Select for the CSM the next fourteen candidates. This would likely not be a popular choice, and the riots we saw last summer would be dwarfed by the riots we would see if this were to happen.
- Spend two weeks and run a new, quickie election. This is no skin off CCP's back. Reset the election software, activate it again. It's not like it costs CCP any money.
- Disband the CSM for the 2012-2013 campaign year. Again, this would not be a popular choice.
CCP's only logical option would be to go with the second choice. There's likely no danger to the current candidates (except Issler Dainze.) Every candidate that got elected, should get elected again. There might be some minor shuffling of positions. Of course, Trebor will lose another night of sleep, EVEmails will need to be sent out again. The benefit to the current candidates is that a clear mandate for the chair will emerge -- likely whoever replaces The Mittani as the CFC candidate. Also of benefit, Issler Dainze will not get re-elected, someone more worthy and willing to participate on the CCP/CSM Skype channel would replace her. I see little downside to any of the thirteen remaining CSM members if they were to resign with the express purpose of forcing CCP to rerun the CSM7 election. Only twelve will resign (Issler won't), but that should be enough of a message to force CCP's hand on the issue. Personally, I don't care either way. I think Two Step would make for a fine CSM Chair, and over the course of the term, I believe any initial ill will would fade. In the end people would agree that he did a fine job in the role.
Sorry mate, the election is over.
they voted for a guy that got himself booted. There are alternates for a reason.
Cry me a river. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish into thin air. |
Beekeeper Bob
Beekeepers Anonymous
27
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:05:00 -
[37] - Quote
Sverige Pahis wrote:have our votes back please tia
Well you did spend a lot of Moongoo plex on all thosse accounts, it's only fair that you get something back....
Looking to stamp out apiphobia in my lifetime..... |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:07:00 -
[38] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Important stuff Sorry, poetic, trying to reduce pyramid quoting. I cant think of any time I have ever agreed with you and until that post, I always thought you a terrible troll. Thank you for proving me wrong. What you said times a ******* million. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
145
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:10:00 -
[39] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Sorry mate, the election is over.
they voted for a guy that got himself booted. There are alternates for a reason.
Cry me a river. Bad poster above supports the movement to revote! Thank you, kind sir. |
Poetic Stanziel
Major Kong Freight
789
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:from CSM Revote - It's a CSM Decision, Not a CCP DecisionThere are now calls for a revote from many in the community. Most feel, that with 10000 votes now invalidated, that any person that assumes the Chair, that they do not hold a mandate for that position. That's a valid argument to make. (From what has been coming out of the CSM, none of the current top six members are particularly eager to assume the Chair. Because they lack a mandate, to do so would likely be political suicide in future CSMs.) Most of the calls are for CCP to invalidate the previous election, to run a new election. The problem is that the decision is not one that CCP can make. They have their CSM rules in place. Someone resigns or is given the boot, someone else assumes their position. In this case, position fifteen makes it into CSM7, since CSM7 has yet to begin. The only people who can make a strong statement for a reelection would be the current CSM. All thirteen members would need to resign enmasse. If that were to happen, then CCP has three choices: - Select for the CSM the next fourteen candidates. This would likely not be a popular choice, and the riots we saw last summer would be dwarfed by the riots we would see if this were to happen.
- Spend two weeks and run a new, quickie election. This is no skin off CCP's back. Reset the election software, activate it again. It's not like it costs CCP any money.
- Disband the CSM for the 2012-2013 campaign year. Again, this would not be a popular choice.
CCP's only logical option would be to go with the second choice. There's likely no danger to the current candidates (except Issler Dainze.) Every candidate that got elected, should get elected again. There might be some minor shuffling of positions. Of course, Trebor will lose another night of sleep, EVEmails will need to be sent out again. The benefit to the current candidates is that a clear mandate for the chair will emerge -- likely whoever replaces The Mittani as the CFC candidate. Also of benefit, Issler Dainze will not get re-elected, someone more worthy and willing to participate on the CCP/CSM Skype channel would replace her. I see little downside to any of the thirteen remaining CSM members if they were to resign with the express purpose of forcing CCP to rerun the CSM7 election. Only twelve will resign (Issler won't), but that should be enough of a message to force CCP's hand on the issue. Personally, I don't care either way. I think Two Step would make for a fine CSM Chair, and over the course of the term, I believe any initial ill will would fade. In the end people would agree that he did a fine job in the role. Sorry mate, the election is over. they voted for a guy that got himself booted. There are alternates for a reason. Cry me a river. That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
|
Amity Lane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
122
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:23:00 -
[41] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
It's an interesting prospect. I doubt that re-running the election would be 100% free from CCP's standpoint (it will at the very least cost a few man-hours), but it's a thought.
This of course hinges on 13 e-Politicians being able to 1. Unanimously agree on something and 2. Have that agreement be to give up their own position and hope they can repeat their election success...a prospect that seems daunting if not impossible.
It does kind of undermine the whole concept though. "Well, we don't like the rules in place for replacing a lost member so we're just all gonna quit and make you do it over".
I don't know. We'll see how it plays out, I guess. |
YuuKnow
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:29:00 -
[42] - Quote
I give this thread
1/10 |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:31:00 -
[43] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
It's an interesting prospect. I doubt that re-running the election would be 100% free from CCP's standpoint (it will at the very least cost a few man-hours), but it's a thought. This of course hinges on 13 e-Politicians being able to 1. Unanimously agree on something and 2. Have that agreement be to give up their own position and hope they can repeat their election success...a prospect that seems daunting if not impossible. It does kind of undermine the whole concept though. "Well, we don't like the rules in place for replacing a lost member so we're just all gonna quit and make you do it over". I don't know. We'll see how it plays out, I guess. So when I say it, I'm bad at logic and should go away. But when Poetic writes a blog about it, its suddenly a good idea? ::psyexplode:: |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
534
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:33:00 -
[44] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
It's an interesting prospect. I doubt that re-running the election would be 100% free from CCP's standpoint (it will at the very least cost a few man-hours), but it's a thought. This of course hinges on 13 e-Politicians being able to 1. Unanimously agree on something and 2. Have that agreement be to give up their own position and hope they can repeat their election success...a prospect that seems daunting if not impossible. It does kind of undermine the whole concept though. "Well, we don't like the rules in place for replacing a lost member so we're just all gonna quit and make you do it over". I don't know. We'll see how it plays out, I guess.
They are acting like whiny babies.
and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
Macon Chalaise
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:33:00 -
[45] - Quote
Amity Lane wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
It's an interesting prospect. I doubt that re-running the election would be 100% free from CCP's standpoint (it will at the very least cost a few man-hours), but it's a thought. This of course hinges on 13 e-Politicians being able to 1. Unanimously agree on something and 2. Have that agreement be to give up their own position and hope they can repeat their election success...a prospect that seems daunting if not impossible. It does kind of undermine the whole concept though. "Well, we don't like the rules in place for replacing a lost member so we're just all gonna quit and make you do it over". I don't know. We'll see how it plays out, I guess.
There is no reason to have a new election just because one person chose to be silly in a venue that had nothing at all to do with the CSM directly or other elected members of the CSM.
That would be like bill clinton's presidential cabinet resigning because monica lewinsky was blowing clinton under his desk.
They simply aren't that related. Here's to fire. Not the fast and furious kind that burns down shacks and shanties, but the slow, seductive kind that takes down pants and panties - Irish Toast |
Poetic Stanziel
Major Kong Freight
789
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:35:00 -
[46] - Quote
Aiden Andraste wrote:So when I say it, I'm bad at logic and should go away. But when Poetic writes a blog about it, its suddenly a good idea? ::psyexplode:: Maybe I should have run for the CSM. Haha. :)
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Poetic Stanziel
Major Kong Freight
789
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:37:00 -
[47] - Quote
Macon Chalaise wrote:They simply aren't that related. You are correct. POTUS and the CSM Chair are nothing at all alike. Drawing parallels is silly.
The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
146
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:38:00 -
[48] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:Aiden Andraste wrote:So when I say it, I'm bad at logic and should go away. But when Poetic writes a blog about it, its suddenly a good idea? ::psyexplode:: Maybe I should have run for the CSM. Haha. :) Well, with the relevancy of the CSM freshly tossed down the shitter, why the hell not? If you campaign on the promise to make even more mockery of the CSM, you have my vote. |
Davor
Merch Industrial Goonswarm Federation
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:39:00 -
[49] - Quote
Serene Repose wrote:Why? You didn't have to waste the vote like you did. *voted for darious iii |
Amity Lane
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
123
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:47:00 -
[50] - Quote
Aiden Andraste wrote:Amity Lane wrote:Poetic Stanziel wrote:That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
It's an interesting prospect. I doubt that re-running the election would be 100% free from CCP's standpoint (it will at the very least cost a few man-hours), but it's a thought. This of course hinges on 13 e-Politicians being able to 1. Unanimously agree on something and 2. Have that agreement be to give up their own position and hope they can repeat their election success...a prospect that seems daunting if not impossible. It does kind of undermine the whole concept though. "Well, we don't like the rules in place for replacing a lost member so we're just all gonna quit and make you do it over". I don't know. We'll see how it plays out, I guess. So when I say it, I'm bad at logic and should go away. But when Poetic writes a blog about it, its suddenly a good idea? ::psyexplode:: Please show me where I said it was a good idea.
In fact, if anything I think the tone of my post would suggest the opposite, though I was trying to be objective about the idea. |
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Florestan Bronstein
United Highsec Front The 99 Percent
487
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 05:48:00 -
[51] - Quote
Poetic Stanziel wrote:]That is, of course, what will happen. That's the completely valid and logical route for CCP to take. Now, if the entire new CSM were to resign, then that changes the options for CCP.
If the entire CSM were to resign only Issler Dainze would remain... I don't think anybody would want to risk this.
Anyways there have been enough precedents for votes not getting reimbursed - Ankh who got kicked from he CSM mid term and Kalrand who withdrew his candidacy during the election (after the polls had opened) come to mind.
putting 10,000 vote into one basket instead of going for 2-3 candidates was always very risky and tbh I don't quite understand the reasons - maybe the eve public and CCP would not have reacted well to a CSM with 3 goonswarm delegates, maybe it was intended to be a show of force, maybe just a terrible misjudgment rgd the number of votes required to get chairman.
But I'm sure it will be entertaining to have the legitimacy of the CSM questioned for its entire term. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
151
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:00:00 -
[52] - Quote
Florestan Bronstein wrote:If the entire CSM were to resign only Issler Dainze would remain... I don't think anybody would want to risk this.
Anyways there have been enough precedents for votes not getting reimbursed - Ankh who got kicked from he CSM mid term and Kalrand who withdrew his candidacy during the election (after the polls had opened) come to mind.
putting 10,000 vote into one basket instead of going for 2-3 candidates was always very risky and tbh I don't quite understand the reasons - maybe the eve public and CCP would not have reacted well to a CSM with 3 goonswarm delegates, maybe it was intended to be a show of force, maybe just a terrible misjudgment rgd the number of votes required to get chairman.
But I'm sure it will be entertaining to have the legitimacy of the CSM questioned for its entire term. It's not like anyone on the current CSM is going to interact or care about what Issler has to say anyways. Her and D3 are those two people in a room of friends that just want to fit in.
You say that csm legitimacy will be questioned, and I say it's already questioned. The question is out there and it's up to CCP and the CSM to decide how to address it. If they try to sweep it away and ignore it, no one will take the CSM seriously again. |
Lapine Davion
Outer Ring Applied Logistics
91
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:08:00 -
[53] - Quote
RougeOperator wrote:MotherMoon wrote:Again, note the man him self agrees with CCP, and yet, his loyal fans won't wake up to the fact that he doesn't want them fighting for him. You should listen to the recording where he says yeah im sincere and sorry. Lets test the waters, oh and keep shitposting on the forums guys. Yeah....
tbh we were gonna keep shitposting anyways. |
EI Digin
Dreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore
259
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:08:00 -
[54] - Quote
goons arent people |
Duvida
The Scope Gallente Federation
53
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:10:00 -
[55] - Quote
Macon Chalaise wrote:Sverige Pahis wrote:have our votes back please tia
Why? Nixon was the peoples choice here in the US. He resigned. No one was disenfranchised. There was no "re-vote." True story.
As well as Grey Davis in California in 2003, although that was a recall vote (for those wondering, that's when Arnold Schwarzenegger was voted in as Governor). Sometimes a leader shows that they can not fulfill the responsibilities of office in a satisfactory way, thus methods are provided to remove them and allow a more worthy successor in. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:10:00 -
[56] - Quote
EI Digin wrote:goons arent people 10000 votes are meaningless |
Lexmana
Imperial Stout
325
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:11:00 -
[57] - Quote
This CSM has no mandate. It will be the worst CSM ever. |
Kiwi Momaki
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:13:00 -
[58] - Quote
Obviously 10000 voters got it wrong the first time,... Suck it up. |
Aiden Andraste
State War Academy Caldari State
154
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:13:00 -
[59] - Quote
Lexmana wrote:This CSM has no mandate. It will be the worst CSM ever. Free tickets to iceland and irrelevancy. Great job CCP. |
RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
543
|
Posted - 2012.03.29 06:24:00 -
[60] - Quote
Aiden Andraste wrote:Lexmana wrote:This CSM has no mandate. It will be the worst CSM ever. Free tickets to iceland and irrelevancy. Great job CCP.
HTFU space babies. Space wizards are real, they can make 10058 votes vanish. "and for a moment i hurd 10k goons cry out, then silence"-á |
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