Sorry I trimmed your statement, but I wanted to focus on this one point. My interpretation is that as long as no real life consequence or threat is made, sharing "tears" or publishing in-game communications between players is fair game regardless of the medium - as long as the consequences stay in the magic box.

So it would be OK to post the eve mails publicly, as long as I don't post information relevant to their real life OR encourage action that would solicit bodily/RL harm to the player.

Again, this is only my interpretation.

So...if I want to trash talk, I have to roleplay.

Got it.

Playing chicken with the GM's hmmmm?

Why don't you go do something safer like crawling around in traffic.

So...if I want to trash talk, I have to roleplay.

Got it.

Edit: POD YOURSELF

Second edit: But *only* in game, guy

Section 4 of our ToS:

"You may not use GÇ£role-playingGÇ¥ as an excuse to violate these rules. While EVE Online is a persistent world, fantasy role-playing game, the claim of role-playing is not an acceptable defense for anti-social behavior. Role-playing is encouraged, but not at the expense of other player. You may not create or participate in a corporation or group that habitually violates this policy."

Pod yourself is, of course, perfectly ok.

So...if I want to trash talk, I have to roleplay.

All of that is part of the rules of The Magic Circle. Simple in game tactics. Creating a living hell by using a person's real life information (nationality, gender, etc) is not allowed. Thus suicide ganking is ok, en mass proclamation that a German player is a **** (infamous German nationalistic political group) and typing swasticas to that player is not ok. I hope that distinction is quite clear.

So the intent matters? Good to know CCP is healthy enough of a company to have enough manpower to take each case and determine the intent of the actions involved. (That's sarcasm)

Putting aside areas of clear intent (such as Alliance Panel gaffe), is it ok to blow someone up repeatedly because they acted like an idiot on EVE radio?

And will I get banned for blowing up The Wiz today because my intent was interpreted as harassment yet all I really wanted was the money?

You see the problem with this now?

Why don't you go do something safer like crawling around in traffic.

I believe that was a suggestion to kill myself, sir.

So much drivel

you are powerless in this situation.[/b] All the talking in the world won't change the fact that if you step over the "perceived" line, you'll be banned. Once you are banned you are no longer a player or a problem. You are just some jerk pleading to be let back in.

All ingame actions have a real life effect on the victims, if completely legit actions are bannable based on the results (I.e. consistently "harassing" someone within the magic circle which leads to his suicide) or based on the intent of the perpetrator (GM Thought Police), you're setting a precedent where we can't do anything in EVE for the risk of being banned.

Luckily, this is a high profile case where CCP was forced to conduct damage control, and will likely and hopefully have no impact on the way the GMs moderate the game in the future. I'm sure you can't acknowledge this second paragraph as a CCP employee though, I certainly wouldn't

I will also say that despite some confusing answers I really do appreciate GM Homonoia's continued answers here.

See and this is a problem, wheres the line now? Do I have to back off if a victim of a suicide gank says "I'll IRL kill myself if you blow up my ship!!"

See and this is a problem, wheres the line now? Do I have to back off if a victim of a suicide gank says "I'll IRL kill myself if you blow up my ship!!"
CanI a whole titian blob be stopped because some one on the other side declares "I'll kill myself if you take my sov!".

The recent kerfluffle was about words but it was words encouraging in game action, that had a implied out of game consequence. Same with the two above situations. Seeing as how people invest time, effort and money into playing the game, knowing what will and will not get you banned is pretty important ESPECIALLY since players are powerless with regards to the GM/Player relationship.

I will also say that despite some confusing answers I really do appreciate GM Homonoia's continued answers here.

Might need a new needle for your moral compass.

Also I think you need to ask about CCP's behavioural policies not their harrassment policy, as I doubt they have a policy specifically to cover the many forms of how you can enact such behaviour. Just thought it was interesting to see how "your" mindset seems to have invented a specific policy for your purposes.

Seriously however, bad taste in the current climate. Shows the gravity with which some people are treating this.

So if he'd had done it on Failheap or something, CCP wouldn't have cared? Or if by some chance would know someone player's homeadress and I would sent him a death-threat by post, CCP wouldn't care either?

I meant like uh...what's it called. "You lowsy Amarrian scum" or something equally lame

I think that all tests are not so smart. Ally leader is the best :) what was his name ? That drunk teenager from ally panel

He's in TEST, he has no moral compass.

I know you were being facetious but just to clarify, I think the correct course of action would be to report the suicidal statement to CCP (in case it's real) and continue playing the game as normal. A statement of RL bodily harm to yourself is as concerning to CCP as harassment to others.

I don't see players abusing this whole shtick though (regardless of the policy) unless CCP goes completely pants-on-head.

They don't have to care what you do on some not related (owning wise) platform. They also can't confirm some entity posting on another platform is indeed that player (which wasn't the case for the stream; cause they knew who that guy talking there (using their channel) is).

For me this would be perfectly fine, considering you're clearly addressing their character and not the person behind that avatar. In this case I'd say this is definitely role play. "You lowsy Amarrian playing scum" wouldn't be ok, as now it addresses the player, breaking from roleplay (i.e. it becomes ooc talk).

He's in TEST, he has no moral compass.

not paying attention to context

I attempted a suicide gank against The Wis today. It was a feeble attempt collect a bounty - 3b isk is a lot of money and a Thrasher was a small price to pay at a chance to get it. Do I feel The Wis is in any way responsible for this week's drama? Nope -- I assure you this was for the spaceship money.

He pulled out in a well-tanked cane and successfully got me and a T2 fitted Tornado blown up by Concord. I convo'ed him afterwards and complimented him on his successful bait.

Imagine that - he's playing the game the same as everyone else. The Wiz is not a "victim" - he is another eve player who happened to send the email that Mittens made an ass out of himself reading. (Let's not beat around the bush - Mittens was wrong for his actions and statements but let's try and avoid bringing that up here)

So, ridiculous people on an internet forum - should I be banned for harassment? I don't think so, however, some of you frothy types and CCP's own actions have put people being banned for similar actions in the realm of possibility and I have begun to worry.

I'm not going to argue about whether CCPs actions against The Mittani are warranted, but I will say this: The line for harassment needs to be clearly distinguished again. I'm not going to risk an EULA violation against my main character if all it takes to get banned is killing the same person 3-4 times in a day. What if he tells me he'll do something drastic if I kill him again? Is it now my responsibility, as a player of a /game/, to act appropriately for an individual who cannot distinguish reality from virtual spaceships?

Should I additionally suffer real-world consequences for not taking to heart some person's ranting?

People say stupid things when they're angry and upset. I've received death threats playing this game - like "I'm going to find you and kill you" type threats. Things that really make you pause. I discount them as the ramblings of someone who is obvious upset and let them slide. Being able to make the distinction between innocuos bile and an actual threat isn't necessary - we assume that the anonymity of the internet protects us and move on. If we are really worried we can petition CCP for action against that person's account. (If we're really ballsy we run for CSM and give our names out to a player base that hates us in real life for actions in a game)

Now what if someone I don't really know told me they were going to kill themselves because I blew up their ship? Just like the death threat I have no way of verifying the validity of that statement in the context of this person's mental state. However, is it my duty to report this person to CCP? Can we continue to shoot said person or move forward in a scam if such a statement is made mid-action? It may sound cold, but as a player of a game, we cannot police what we do not know and it should not be our responsibility to nanny a players mental well-being.

If I saw someone on the street about to jump off a ledge of course I'd stop and try and help, but this is a game and there is no ledge. No indication that what the person is saying holds any merit. Without context, the words are nothing but text on a screen.

It's really easy to take the moral high ground on these issues, especially when it's backed by vehement disdain for the parties involved. However, before making any rash decisions or labeling a large group of players "psychopaths" you should calm down, breath, take a step back and look at the policy implications of what you're describing.

In the past, people have been very clearly targeted for one reason or another - be it a corp you wardec'ed because they popped your low sec POS or said something mean about you in local. Hell, my alliance is in perpetual war dec with high sec griefing corps for no other reason than "we make easy targets". People have been targeted for writing articles on EN24 that were unfavorable towards certain alliances. In fact, whenever we're near BrickSquad..... (is that the right amount of dots?) now, we make it a point to single out and blow up Riverini or Darius III whenever possible. People pay for corpses of individuals. Entire Merc corps make a living out of "destroying" pilots. I could go on and on with examples of how individuals are targeted.

Where do these fall under the potentially new interpretation of harassment?

This is part of the narrative in Eve - it's what makes it interesting and dynamic for a large portion of the player base. If we set aside The Wiz's "suicide" statement (which, mind you, we do not have the context to identify its validity or intent), he is just another pawn in this narrative and perfectly ok playing this game.

So I pose this to CCP: Am I to be banned because his role in this narrative is already written permanently simply due to protection offered by words without context?

You are being a typical TEST prat. Nice reply also GM

DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

Ohgod Townsend is shitting all over my thread. I guess it was a good run.

Thanks GM Homonia for answering rather pointed questions and alleviating any fears of policy changes while clarifying things.

I shall now let this devolve in to people making judgements about others based on their spaceship associations.