Where do these fall under the potentially new interpretation of harassment?

I attempted a suicide gank against The Wis today. It was a feeble attempt collect a bounty - 3b isk is a lot of money and a Thrasher was a small price to pay at a chance to get it. Do I feel The Wis is in any way responsible for this week's drama? Nope -- I assure you this was for the spaceship money.

He pulled out in a well-tanked cane and successfully got me and a T2 fitted Tornado blown up by Concord. I convo'ed him afterwards and complimented him on his successful bait.

Imagine that - he's playing the game the same as everyone else. The Wiz is not a "victim" - he is another eve player who happened to send the email that Mittens made an ass out of himself reading. (Let's not beat around the bush - Mittens was wrong for his actions and statements but let's try and avoid bringing that up here)

So, ridiculous people on an internet forum - should I be banned for harassment? I don't think so, however, some of you frothy types and CCP's own actions have put people being banned for similar actions in the realm of possibility and I have begun to worry.

I'm not going to argue about whether CCPs actions against The Mittani are warranted, but I will say this: The line for harassment needs to be clearly distinguished again. I'm not going to risk an EULA violation against my main character if all it takes to get banned is killing the same person 3-4 times in a day. What if he tells me he'll do something drastic if I kill him again? Is it now my responsibility, as a player of a /game/, to act appropriately for an individual who cannot distinguish reality from virtual spaceships?

Should I additionally suffer real-world consequences for not taking to heart some person's ranting?

People say stupid things when they're angry and upset. I've received death threats playing this game - like "I'm going to find you and kill you" type threats. Things that really make you pause. I discount them as the ramblings of someone who is obvious upset and let them slide. Being able to make the distinction between innocuos bile and an actual threat isn't necessary - we assume that the anonymity of the internet protects us and move on. If we are really worried we can petition CCP for action against that person's account. (If we're really ballsy we run for CSM and give our names out to a player base that hates us in real life for actions in a game)

Now what if someone I don't really know told me they were going to kill themselves because I blew up their ship? Just like the death threat I have no way of verifying the validity of that statement in the context of this person's mental state. However, is it my duty to report this person to CCP? Can we continue to shoot said person or move forward in a scam if such a statement is made mid-action? It may sound cold, but as a player of a game, we cannot police what we do not know and it should not be our responsibility to nanny a players mental well-being.

If I saw someone on the street about to jump off a ledge of course I'd stop and try and help, but this is a game and there is no ledge. No indication that what the person is saying holds any merit. Without context, the words are nothing but text on a screen.

It's really easy to take the moral high ground on these issues, especially when it's backed by vehement disdain for the parties involved. However, before making any rash decisions or labeling a large group of players "psychopaths" you should calm down, breath, take a step back and look at the policy implications of what you're describing.

In the past, people have been very clearly targeted for one reason or another - be it a corp you wardec'ed because they popped your low sec POS or said something mean about you in local. Hell, my alliance is in perpetual war dec with high sec griefing corps for no other reason than "we make easy targets". People have been targeted for writing articles on EN24 that were unfavorable towards certain alliances. In fact, whenever we're near BrickSquad..... (is that the right amount of dots?) now, we make it a point to single out and blow up Riverini or Darius III whenever possible. People pay for corpses of individuals. Entire Merc corps make a living out of "destroying" pilots. I could go on and on with examples of how individuals are targeted.

Where do these fall under the potentially new interpretation of harassment?

This is part of the narrative in Eve - it's what makes it interesting and dynamic for a large portion of the player base. If we set aside The Wiz's "suicide" statement (which, mind you, we do not have the context to identify its validity or intent), he is just another pawn in this narrative and perfectly ok playing this game.

So I pose this to CCP: Am I to be banned because his role in this narrative is already written permanently simply due to protection offered by words without context?

What "new" interpretation?

Banning Mittani was not about possibly suicidal state of (redacted).

It was about Mittani telling others to harrass him to make him commit suicide.

Don't confuse these two.

Yes, but I am told by numerous people/organizations on a daily basis to go out and kill one pilot or another en masse, what makes this case so special?

It's the finer nuances that are being covered by broad strokes which need to be clarified.

You are told to kill them ingame for ingame reasons - NOT for reason that they would commit suicide.

That is the difference.

OK.. I really do not know what to say. I am at a loss for words with all that is going on.

I guess I should say that this is not about someone alt in eve.
This is not about someone losing isks they worked for.
This is not about someone losing a machanaw in the game.
This is not something I started. I was really shocked to see the video monday night when I finaly had time.

This is all really about a person that is over joyed in making some one hurt as much as they can in real life not in game.
Going by his power point I have to say he thought about it long before getting drunk.
If thowing my name out there was something he planed to do or not that I can not say, and we will never know for sure.
But when reflect the way he talked about my mail. I am sure that was an option he was holding on to and tossing up becouse he was really enjoying tomenting someone.

I am sorry this is not the alt in the game that is talk but the person playing the alt.

There are allot of people out there that have real life problems, but they are warned when they join Eve. Whats said and done in the game doesn't bother me, its all part of Eve.

To me this **** got real and hurt full when I watched a video where a complete stranger urged other complete strangers to try make me kill myself.

So the intent matters? Good to know CCP is healthy enough of a company to have enough manpower to take each case and determine the intent of the actions involved. (That's sarcasm)

Putting aside areas of clear intent (such as Alliance Panel gaffe), is it ok to blow someone up repeatedly because they acted like an idiot on EVE radio?

And will I get banned for blowing up The Wiz today because my intent was interpreted as harassment yet all I really wanted was the money?

You see the problem with this now?

DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

Last night I posted on this forum and someone told me to go kill myself.

How does this play with new interpretations of the EULA/ToS?

I am more than happy to provide details of my diagnosed medical conditions to CCP privately.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

No need for sarcasm. Of course intent matters when it is clearly stated, as in Mittani case.



Mittani case was clear, why to muddy it with questions which are not so clear. EVE has allways had such cases, and will allways have them - nothing has changed.

And if you do want definitive answer - ask CCP.



See above.


No. Nothing has changed with Mittani case.

Despite the trolls I was very sincere in my opening statement so thank you for clarifying.

So, by my interpretation it seems that me and my friends who went after the bounty today are in the clear with regards to the Harassment Policy. And that people calling for us to get banned simply because we're chasing a bounty are misinformed.

Again, thank you for the clarification.

I do take some affront to you questioning my common sense, as I assure you I am not the only one puzzled by the current climate or worried at the direction CCP was heading with this.

Last night I posted on this forum and someone told me to go kill myself.

How does this play with new interpretations of the EULA/ToS?

I am more than happy to provide details of my diagnosed medical conditions to CCP privately.

DISCLAIMER: I will not comment in any way, shape or form on the recent events and decisions made in relation to those events. I will only clarify how customer support enforces our policies to provide clarity on the day to day application of those policies.

I am going to explain this only once; and this really should have been clear to anyone bothering to apply some common sense to the EULA/ToS.

What happens inside the The Magic Circle is allowed as long as it abides by the rules of The Magic Circle (this is why you are allowed to hit someone in a boxing match, but not outside the ring). However, as soon as any action steps outside The Magic Circle and threatens harm to anyone in real life in any way shape or form, or when you incite others to do so (or when your in game actions are specifically geared towards that, joke or no joke), you break the EULA/ToS; even if you are only stating intent.

Any GM will always take immediate action when this is done.

And for those who think they can force an in game situation out of The Magic Circle to avoid in game consequences by threatening with suicide; the GM department has a strict policy of informing local and international law enforcement agencies of any suicide threats issued NO MATTER THE CONTEXT. In other words, do NOT joke about that. When a RL life is threatened we do not take any risks, ever.

By your interpretation... very important part.

See the thing is your interpretation means as much as mine does... zilch.

Also we see that you are trying to be clever and twist words and make out there is some massive conspiracy where as truth be told you are looking more and more ridiculous with each post.

By all means keep it up because

WE LOVE YOU

This doesn't resolve the situation where all of this takes place inside the magic circle. If player A ganks player B and player B says "Leave me alone or I'm going to kill myself" in local chat but player B is in a freight full of plexs. What do you think is going to happen here? I wouldn't be surprised to see "Great, go ahead we'll loot your plexs" and quite frankly... I wouldn't vilify anyone for that. How is player A supposed to understand that context while in the circle? If it can be joked about there, why does the circle even matter?

You also just created a double standard by suggesting the idea of the magic circle as being in game but then enforcing the in game TOS and EULA at FANFEST which is clearly not in game.

I think your explanation just made things fuzzier to be honest.

Perfectly fine so long as they dont wish RL harm.

Despite the trolls I was very sincere in my opening statement so thank you for clarifying.

So, by my interpretation it seems that me and my friends who went after the bounty today are in the clear with regards to the Harassment Policy. And that people calling for us to get banned simply because we're chasing a bounty are misinformed.

Again, thank you for the clarification.

I do take some affront to you questioning my common sense, as I assure you I am not the only one puzzled by the current climate or worried at the direction CCP was heading with this.

No the explanation is crystal clear.

The fact that you seem to have difficulty understanding is no one faults other then your own.