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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.27 09:07:00 -
[1]
Planning on starting up an industrial corp focused on mining, trading and manufacturing.
The model is mostly based off initially from someone else I read on this forum. Here's the details:
- 5% tax
- Sell minerals for 95% value by contract or market (preferably in large contract quantity)
- Use minerals for manufacturing
Obviously there's two key points here. How does the corp wallet make income? I'll need the minerals from hosted ops to manufacture. Of course, the corp can make income by selling manufactured goods.
But then, what gives the miners the incentive to help out in ops? What can the corp offer to them?
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Tillyn
Gallente
Cogworks Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.09.27 09:16:00 -
[2]
well each corp op you could divide up 50% of the total intake of minerals and share among those who took part.
or
give away free ships modules and ammo.
there are lots of differnt ways of keeping members happy just need to use ya noggin :)
T!
"Rather Death than Disgrace"
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.27 09:43:00 -
[3]
Any math artists out there willing to help out with calculating the best method of incentives? I'm at a loss, currently.
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Tillyn
Gallente
Cogworks Research Labs
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Posted - 2008.09.27 10:31:00 -
[4]
there are a good ferw utils out there ie spread sheets and other 3rd party apps eve miner tool being one of them
:) enjoy
"Rather Death than Disgrace"
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ingenting
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.27 14:43:00 -
[5]
Edited by: ingenting on 27/09/2008 14:44:37
free ships and gear
mining ops - calc how much the mins u mined are worth, take x% and split to those who participated.
tax can be 100%, as it only effects those running missions (which isnt the primary role of ur corp).
remember that mined mins are NOT free when calculating what you're gonna sell manufactured items for. and if u can make more by selling the mins than building something for them, dont build that.
 Quote:
Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb.
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Kruvinch
The Roid Serial Killers
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Posted - 2008.09.28 03:05:00 -
[6]
Edited by: Kruvinch on 28/09/2008 03:09:29
Here's the arrangement (written out by me):
Role Appropriations (by job rather then corp defined roles):
- Mining Director (organize MOPs, with leadership bonuses)
- Refiner (hopefully heyte to begin with)
- Trader (likely heyte to begin with)
- Manufacturer (likely heyte to begin with)
- CEO (me; will hold shares, declare votes when called for; only me and heyte have access to corp wallet and also with the power to take money away for own ends, however many issues can be voted on by members such as for every time there's a change of ore tax rate unless no one expresses interest)
- Logistics aid (someone else with a head for numbers, perhaps later on or sooner to advise on rates and help organize MOPs)
- Miner Grunts
- Mission Runners & Salvagers (getting taxed or bringing in loot to refine)
MOP
- (current rate) 5% of minerals mined go to corp hangar
- 95% distributed among miners in form of isk or ore
- Charity runs = 100% of ore goes to corp hangar
Tax
- (current rate) 50% (modifiable depending on member count; amount of mission runners wanting to get in, etc.)
Manufacturing
- Manufacturing for mems can be done when they give minerals to producer
- Ships that can be manufactured (have the BPO) come free, depending on corp wallet
- More free stuff can result in change of ore tax rates (will likely result in vote on whether or not change of rates is acceptible for benefits)
Corp Wallet
- Wallet earns money from selling manufactured goods
- CEO is only one with access to wallet and can satisfy own ends (because I'm the CEO I could close the corp at a moment's notice after taking everything from the wallet so it isn't debatable)
Shares
- CEO controls shares
- Shares can be handed out to mems as part of pre-established deals on the first mems to join as well as those who have remained loyal to the corp for extended periods of time (in MOPs or simply being among those listed to have remained active since the beginning after a few months)
- Shares can be bought too (though no IPOs are to be made any time soon)
- In the future, the shares will eventually begin offering dividends
- As CEO, I have the right to deny people shares of my corp
Goals
- To hold as many MOPs as possible within any given amount of time
- BPO acquisition (ore rates may be subject to change as more BPOs are bought and MEd/PEd, because more ships can be manufactured)
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Newbear
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Posted - 2008.09.28 07:32:00 -
[7]
Yea you need a business plan like enron, worldcom, bears stern, goldman sax, leaman brothers, and washington mutual. Or you can just sell time codes for isk.
Click here for my High Security POS Service
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Curiosity collector
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Posted - 2008.09.28 12:19:00 -
[8]
Economically, there are 3 things you can offer to miners in highsec:
1) perfect refine. A character have to have perfect refinining skills for all common ores and enough standing to not give percentage to the station. You can take 3%-4% as tax off the refined minerals.
2) serious mining bonuses. Command ship with mindlinks and stuff, skills, etc which give pretty serious bonuses to group mining. You can take a part of that bonus as payment. It's very profitable for everyone.
3) freighter services - members drop their ore wherever they like, you use freighter to move all that ore into your refinery, and then to trade hub - or to places, where people set large buy orders for minerals. Again, you can take payment for services.
There is nothing else you can offer to miners, and any other "tax" will be seen by them as unfair.
For industrial characters: high-sec research pos for those who need it; freighter services to move minerals/production from their factories to markets. Again, there is nothing else you can offer them, and nothing you can charge them for which would be seen as "fair".
You have absolutely nothing to offer mission runners. May be, again, refinery and freighter services to move their loot, but mission runners will not look at taxes favorably.
That's what a corp can offer to members economically.
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Irulan S'Dijana
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2008.09.28 13:43:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Newbear
Yea you need a business plan like enron, worldcom, bears stern, goldman sax, leaman brothers, and washington mutual. Or you can just sell time codes for isk.
Goldmans is fine.
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ingenting
20th Legion
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.09.28 15:30:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Curiosity collector
Economically, there are 3 things you can offer to miners in highsec:
1) perfect refine.
2) serious mining bonuses.
3) freighter services
There is nothing else you can offer to miners, and any other "tax" will be seen by them as unfair.
You have absolutely nothing to offer mission runners.
ahum, no? dont listen to this guy, he clearly has no idea wtf he's talking about.
like i said, you can offer mining ships, gear etc. the tax does NOT effect them at all.
to mission runners u can offer discounts on whatever they need (use the tax money collected for this).
you can also offer ships for just the insurance cost (assemble the ship in corp hangar and insure with corp wallet, then give it to the member).
doesnt look like "nothing" for missioners to me 
Quote:
Welcome to EVE, remember to insu *BAAOOM*... Told you, newb.
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.28 19:59:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Newbear
Yea you need a business plan like enron, worldcom, bears stern, goldman sax, leaman brothers, and washington mutual. Or you can just sell time codes for isk.
Not so much enron. :P
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.28 20:07:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Heyte on 28/09/2008 20:11:19
Originally by: Curiosity collector
Economically, there are 3 things you can offer to miners in highsec:
1) perfect refine. A character have to have perfect refinining skills for all common ores and enough standing to not give percentage to the station. You can take 3%-4% as tax off the refined minerals.
2) serious mining bonuses. Command ship with mindlinks and stuff, skills, etc which give pretty serious bonuses to group mining. You can take a part of that bonus as payment. It's very profitable for everyone.
3) freighter services - members drop their ore wherever they like, you use freighter to move all that ore into your refinery, and then to trade hub - or to places, where people set large buy orders for minerals. Again, you can take payment for services.
There is nothing else you can offer to miners, and any other "tax" will be seen by them as unfair.
For industrial characters: high-sec research pos for those who need it; freighter services to move minerals/production from their factories to markets. Again, there is nothing else you can offer them, and nothing you can charge them for which would be seen as "fair".
You have absolutely nothing to offer mission runners. May be, again, refinery and freighter services to move their loot, but mission runners will not look at taxes favorably.
That's what a corp can offer to members economically.
I've got NEAR perfect refine. Also, from what few BPOs I do have I'd offer manufacturing. A combination of ore tax and corp tax would help with corp income (the ore tax leads to more manufactured goods).
I'd try to make mining ops seem beneficial by eventually offering shares.
The miners would haul there own gear, or appointed haulers would haul for them. Someone else would be mining director considering I don't have serious mining bonuses.
I'm looking for a more structured development cycle where pretty much stuff goes to the corp but then the corp hands out free stuff back while still trying to make profit.
Alot of what the mems do would be given to themselves, however along with mission runners recieving discounts on manufactured crap I'd go with offering shares to those who do continuously give back to the corp (in the form of MOPs). Shares are beneficial considering there would be a lot of issues to vote on like adjusting rates. Even discounts for mission runners could be voted on (however to recieve shares you have to either buy or contribute to the corp through mining ops).
Development for the corp in this way would be slow, but after I acquire a POS in high sec I'm hoping to change things around once again so that things speed up. Another economic issue is BPOs, so I'm hoping that most of the BPOs go from corp hangar to their intended manufacturers.
Because of the structured environment, people would have to get permission from me to become corp manufacturers (using corp minerals).
Also, do high sec POS's require standing between corp and NPC or player and NPC?
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Braaage
eXceed Inc.
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.09.28 20:12:00 -
[13]
Quote:
Also, do high sec POS's require standing between corp and NPC or player and NPC?
Corp requires faction standing (IE Corp to Amarr or Caldari)
--
POSs, Outposts, Exploration, Mining, Invention, Boosters, EA EVE Database, Character Generator & more |
Dark 'Shadow
Shadow Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.09.29 00:49:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Dark ''Shadow on 29/09/2008 00:49:26
Originally by: ingenting/
ahum, no? dont listen to this guy, he clearly has no idea wtf he's talking about.
like i said, you can offer mining ships, gear etc. the tax does NOT effect them at all.
to mission runners u can offer discounts on whatever they need (use the tax money collected for this).
you can also offer ships for just the insurance cost (assemble the ship in corp hangar and insure with corp wallet, then give it to the member).
doesnt look like "nothing" for missioners to me
What a crappy idea, so basically any mission runners or miners who mission run a lot (I know quite a few) who join this corp give him millions for free while getting ammo, and maybe a ship or two. This would mean that every bounty they get goes to the corp, even the mission reward would go to the corp. No kinds of benefits in a corp would be worth that, I don't care if you gave out free ammo and ships for a year, it just simply wouldn't be worth it. Also with your idea the money that they would have gotten in the first place is what your buying the ammo or ships with, how is that fair?
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.29 01:49:00 -
[15]
Yes.
The corp is for miners after all.
So last question: Is their any flaws in the plan I wrote other then anything to do with mission runners?
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Kelon Darklight
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Posted - 2008.09.29 02:48:00 -
[16]
Your plan seems solid, but as other posts pointed out, getting a mining Command Ship seriously increases output. Also, having a frieghter would be nesscary to move minerals to hubs, as doing it in little indys would take a long time.
Besides that, I think your plan is good!
As a side question, do you mine in t1 or t2 barges, and do you have a system picked out for mining? As in, high yield ores and in enough numbers to warrant mining them?
Kelon Darklight
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.29 03:07:00 -
[17]
T1 barges would be all there is. I don't even have the BPOs yet. Currently, I mine by myself in khopa.
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Reloth Darklight
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Posted - 2008.09.29 03:18:00 -
[18]
So are you staying with t1 stuff? Like frigates and battleships? Or are you planning to branch out into t2 invention?
Kelon Darklight
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.09.29 03:49:00 -
[19]
When I get enough BPOs and a POS, I might move onto invention.
That could be a long ways off, however.
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Kelon Darklight
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Posted - 2008.09.29 03:56:00 -
[20]
Personally, if you are doing BPO work you can make alts that can each run 4 BPOs. Of course, they arent very fast and cant work with all, but they can do most of the t1, exulding for a fact rigs(need the rig spefic skill). But i would save up for a good BPO, a ship in constant demand, and immediately start work on it. Thoraxs seem a good choice, cause people use them all gank/no tank manvuers where it requires a bit of "if i die, at least the other 5 will gank him thought." Also any of the Battleships, though they are in a completely different price racket.
Also, you could make large/cruise ammo and take it too a mission hub to sell(known area of demand). Not sure of the profit margin, but at least you know there are hungry carebears constantly using it. Might even have mission runners convert it into faction ammo, but as i said, not sure of profit in any of this.
Kelon Darklight
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TheBlueMonkey
Gallente
Di-Tron Heavy Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.01 16:46:00 -
[21]
I've never liked the idea of a purely one sided stand alone corp.
just doesn't make much sense to me is all.
mission runners can get you tax
explorers can find you hidden belts
PVPers can cut you a nice spot in 0.0
trades can make your money work for you
etc etc etc
well rounded corp ftw
--
If there's no profit to be made you need to travel further afield.
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Father Tres
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Posted - 2008.10.09 04:24:00 -
[22]
Here is what my corp does. We have the ops and the miners do there stuff and corp then takes all of the ore. Corp then refines, makes stuff, sells, yadayada. We put all of our sales into a section of the corp wallet. On the 1st and 15th we devide all the money made amonst the share holders. Our corp holds about 50% so the miners and haulers show up and mine for a wile, we give them a few shares for helping and they get a percentage of corp profit. Its one of the most effective ways i have seen so far, the more u mine for corp the larger split you get, also the more you mine the more money corp makes giving more money to you. So go out there and mine!
I highly recomend it to all mining corps.
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Smokin' Dragon
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Posted - 2008.10.11 11:09:00 -
[23]
Speaking as the CEO of a 20+ member industrial corp, mybest advice to you is players are attracted by a leader, not a business model
Whilst we are an industrial corp, i have to bear in mind that even the bestminer cant be bothered with mining some nights, so be prepared to organize PVP, tournaments, Level 4 missions runs etc
Its a full time job keeping people happy :)
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Gajanina
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Posted - 2008.10.11 11:32:00 -
[24]
To me help, just not mining but to focus, whot we want to produce. Than it is fun to focus to something higher.
But true is that just only mining, manfacturing, reasearche inventions, that all together is sometimes boring.
Nice are l5 missins sometimes.
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Cassendra
Caldari
Jovian Labs
Jovian Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.11 14:59:00 -
[25]
As a corp you need to provide your members with more than they would get playing solo, so in mining ops, you do have to pay them full market price and provide gang bonuses. That makes sense as industry needs sound capitalism to work.
--------x---------
Cassendra
Assassin. Merc. Pirate.
Jovian Labs
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High Priestess
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Posted - 2008.10.11 15:01:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Newbear
Yea you need a business plan like enron, worldcom, bears stern, goldman sax, leaman brothers, and washington mutual. Or you can just sell time codes for isk.
you failed to spell Lehman Brothers and Goldman Sachs correctly
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Veldya
Guristari Freedom Fighters
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Posted - 2008.10.12 12:48:00 -
[27]
Invariably, one sided industry corporations struggle to go anywhere. Largely because it is very difficult to find a sizable group of people all with the same interest.
What I recommend:
a) Accept anyone. Weed out the dregs but the more people you have the less strain you put on each individual. There is strength in numbers and Pirates will have a field day on your corp if you have nobody that knows what a gun looks like.
b) Create a purpose. You want to be a largely an industry based corp, create a short to medium term objective. What I recommend is you get into some sort of meaningful manufacturing that all your corp can get into.
For example: Something I did a while back was form an industrial corp for a group of people who manufactured fighter drones. We had no tax but people contributed resources and isk into the project each person got a proportion of the profits based on how much each person contributed.
Mission runners can surprisingly contribute a lot of the resources you need via the module drops.
This was a great way to grow as a corp and a good way to make money because fighters can bring you a 25-50% profit once you get the ME down to about 25 on the fighter BPOs. You are looking at around 200m per BPO and there is a fairly high turnover of fighters, they are usually in high demand.
To make fighters you will need a tower, labs and small ship assembly arrays so it is not a cheap prospect for a new corp but a profitable one. Much better to turn your minerals into something with a good profit margin.
Your corps should first set out to building up to be able to get into that kind of production and then as you go you can expand your operations, get people in the various skills.
When you know the industry well enough and you have a good backbone of clients you can make many billions just by buying the resources cheap, mass producing the fighters and moving them to your clients in bulk.
I find skill-wise and investment-wise it is the cheapest business to get into and one of the more lucrative one. From there you can build up to making capital ship components and then the sky is the limit... or is that space?
You do need to learn about the market, and get your skills up to speed.
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Pelham
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Posted - 2008.10.12 18:22:00 -
[28]
From reading your diretive all i can see is that u two will recieve all the isk and do what u like while u have peons work for u its pretty cushy if it works but who ever u employ must be thick as ****
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Heyte
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Posted - 2008.10.14 23:39:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Pelham
From reading your diretive all i can see is that u two will recieve all the isk and do what u like while u have peons work for u its pretty cushy if it works but who ever u employ must be thick as ****
Well judging from your grammar, I really can't see how anyone could possibly express more thickness then yourself, kind sir.
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Dark 'Shadow
Shadow Fire Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.15 01:09:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Heyte
Originally by: Pelham
From reading your diretive all i can see is that u two will recieve all the isk and do what u like while u have peons work for u its pretty cushy if it works but who ever u employ must be thick as ****
Well judging from your grammar, I really can't see how anyone could possibly express more thickness then yourself, kind sir.
Then let me translate and then you can answer it because I would like to know the answer to this as well.
From reading your directive, all I can see is that the two of you will receive all the isk and do whatever the hell you like while you have your peons work for you. It is pretty cushy if it works but whoever you employ must be thick as shit.
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