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Raven Vs. Rokh Vs. Cerberus Vs. CNR

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Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 10:54:00 - [1] Hello Everyone, Ive been playing for a little over seven months now and i have made it up to the BS level, with my last Raven blowing up in a Level IV due to my own ignorance and stupidity. Currently i am flying a drake and have about 150M in savings for my next purchase, but what to buy? I have about 1.5M SP in missles (and only 500K in turrets) as a result of my aspirations of mastering the Raven, however, i have heard that Turret Warfare via the ROKH will outdmg the Raven hands down (i think the argument was for defender missles being used in the oppositions favor). With my prior raven having an almost indefinite amount of capacitor with active Invul II shields on i rather liked the setup but there is little point in trying the same thing twice. Therefore, here are the final question(s). Would a Raven be the next step for me? Should i save for the CNR? Why is the CNR better than the Raven itself? Would it be more wise of me to just go with the Cerberus as it is within the same price range? I appreciate any feedback! Thanks! Semper Fi
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 10:54:00 - [2] Hello Everyone, Ive been playing for a little over seven months now and i have made it up to the BS level, with my last Raven blowing up in a Level IV due to my own ignorance and stupidity. Currently i am flying a drake and have about 150M in savings for my next purchase, but what to buy? I have about 1.5M SP in missles (and only 500K in turrets) as a result of my aspirations of mastering the Raven, however, i have heard that Turret Warfare via the ROKH will outdmg the Raven hands down (i think the argument was for defender missles being used in the oppositions favor). With my prior raven having an almost indefinite amount of capacitor with active Invul II shields on i rather liked the setup but there is little point in trying the same thing twice. Therefore, here are the final question(s). Would a Raven be the next step for me? Should i save for the CNR? Why is the CNR better than the Raven itself? Would it be more wise of me to just go with the Cerberus as it is within the same price range? I appreciate any feedback! Thanks!
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.01 10:58:00 - [3] For mission running I would reccomend getting Raven. It's quite good for a start. Would not get CNR right away with that low budget, there is plenty of time to upgrade to it afterwards when you get used to running missions in Raven.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.01 10:58:00 - [4] For mission running I would reccomend getting Raven. It's quite good for a start. Would not get CNR right away with that low budget, there is plenty of time to upgrade to it afterwards when you get used to running missions in Raven.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:05:00 - [5] What is the Main advantage that the CNR has over the Raven? Semper Fi
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:05:00 - [6] What is the Main advantage that the CNR has over the Raven?
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:07:00 - [7] Originally by: Harrent What is the Main advantage that the CNR has over the Raven? +1 launcher point and better HP all over.
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:13:00 - [8] Stay with the Raven. This way you have a clear upgrade path. Raven->CNR->Golem. Rokh is pretty much a dead end in the Caldari lineup. Rokh is a bit better against EM/Kin weak opponents, but considerably inferior to a Raven against anything else. Even worse, with your low gunnery skills, it will suck against Serpenthis/Guristas, too.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:39:00 - [9] Golem is the ultimate goal, currently im doing lvl III's in the Drake. Almost all of my Eng skills are at IV or V and im working on using T2 Ammo and Launchers on my drake. Should i stay with the drake as long as possible or upgrade as it becomes available? It seems that the drake is better at running III's than the Raven. The raven seems to have considerable difficulty attacking anything less than a cruiser, but that could be my missle precision skill (only level 3 atm). Semper Fi
Sidus Isaacs	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:47:00 - [10] Originally by: Harrent Golem is the ultimate goal, currently im doing lvl III's in the Drake. Almost all of my Eng skills are at IV or V and im working on using T2 Ammo and Launchers on my drake. Should i stay with the drake as long as possible or upgrade as it becomes available? It seems that the drake is better at running III's than the Raven. The raven seems to have considerable difficulty attacking anything less than a cruiser, but that could be my missle precision skill (only level 3 atm). Use a Drake for level 3, its faster that way. But you need not dwell too long with it, get the BS skills up and move to level 4's. You will make much more isk in level 4's if you got skills for it :). My Drake has gathred dust for a few month now, I have only benn using my Raven in level 4's :P. The drake can however tank level 4's, but its very low on teh dps side to be effective at doing them. A note on teh CNR. after just 2 weeks of doing level 4's and I can afford a CNR, and I might ust get one now as it is a better all-around ship the the Raven. Tanks better, has better dps, and such :). Still for misisons, a Golem is the fastest. Torp have great dps.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:51:00 - [11] Edited by: Harrent on 01/10/2008 11:52:39 I have BS III and Spaceship Command V. I think i will throw BS up to V before i change back into the raven. I lost my last raven by going into a higher level IV with only 1 assistant. While he had to jet due to his shield doing down i sat and got hammered, scram, and webbed. Raven inevitably blew up, which brought me to my knees as i had just gotten all T2 parts fitted to it, i lost about 80M on the deal. How do you avoid this problem? Oh yea, and i use Cruise Missles instead of Torps due to the sig radius of some ships. Not to mention the ability to keep my distance from those EM weapons... Why do so many people use Torps when they do not do well against smaller sig ships and put your ship in greater range of its critical weakness? Semper Fi
DubanFP Caldari Kylia Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 11:53:00 - [12] I don't know why you think golem is better then the CNR. The golem doesn't even have a damage bonus. Golem 4 * 2 "the role bonus" = 8 effective launchers. CNR 7 launchers * 1.25 = 8.75 effecive launchers. Basically the CNR's superior damage will make you isk that much faster. Sure the golem's tank helps, in theory, but more damage kills enemies faster and makes you more isk. Tanking won't increase your isk flow and if you could tank them before why do you need extra tank that you won't use? _______________ "Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and utterly outclassed.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 12:00:00 - [13] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Harrent Golem is the ultimate goal, currently im doing lvl III's in the Drake. Almost all of my Eng skills are at IV or V and im working on using T2 Ammo and Launchers on my drake. Should i stay with the drake as long as possible or upgrade as it becomes available? It seems that the drake is better at running III's than the Raven. The raven seems to have considerable difficulty attacking anything less than a cruiser, but that could be my missle precision skill (only level 3 atm). Use a Drake for level 3, its faster that way. But you need not dwell too long with it, get the BS skills up and move to level 4's. You will make much more isk in level 4's if you got skills for it :). My Drake has gathred dust for a few month now, I have only benn using my Raven in level 4's :P. The drake can however tank level 4's, but its very low on teh dps side to be effective at doing them. A note on teh CNR. after just 2 weeks of doing level 4's and I can afford a CNR, and I might ust get one now as it is a better all-around ship the the Raven. Tanks better, has better dps, and such :). Still for misisons, a Golem is the fastest. Torp have great dps. Oh yea, and i use Cruise Missles instead of Torps due to the sig radius of some ships. Not to mention the ability to keep my distance from those EM weapons... Why do so many people use Torps when they do not do well against smaller sig ships and put your ship in greater range of its critical weakness? Semper Fi
DubanFP Caldari Kylia Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.01 12:03:00 - [14] Originally by: Harrent Oh yea, and i use Cruise Missles instead of Torps due to the sig radius of some ships. Not to mention the ability to keep my distance from those EM weapons... Why do so many people use Torps when they do not do well against smaller sig ships and put your ship in greater range of its critical weakness? Torps do A LOT more damage to battlesihps, and a few T2 Hammerheads with drone interfacing IV or V makes very short work of cruisers and smaller anyways. The main advantage of Cruiser Launchers is the range. You'll lose a lot of time, isk, and cap just getting to torp range in the first place in a mission. They work great for 0.0 ratting though. _______________ "Cheap" and "Lame" are words created by people who refuse to admit they have been completely and utterly outclassed.
Coros Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2008.10.01 12:22:00 - [15] Originally by: DubanFP Torps do A LOT more damage to battlesihps, and a few T2 Hammerheads with drone interfacing IV or V makes very short work of cruisers and smaller anyways. The main advantage of Cruiser Launchers is the range. You'll lose a lot of time, isk, and cap just getting to torp range in the first place in a mission. They work great for 0.0 ratting though. Erm what? T2 javelin torps have range around 60 km.. That's enough. Rat's will come orbit you with MWD on anyway.. And you can use your PWNAGE mod to take agro up to 90 km or so.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 12:46:00 - [16] Well, im far from being T2 on Torps, but the cruise should only be about two weeks away. Semper Fi
Arazel Chainfire The first genesis Veritas Immortalis	Posted - 2008.10.01 13:01:00 - [17] You obviously haven't used a well fit and skilled torp boat then... My current effective range w/ javelin torps (golem) - 56km. My current range w/ regular torps - 38km Use regular torps on close battleships javelins against everything else, and start drones on the frigs. I (with admittedly not all that great skills) can 3-5 volley all battleships, 1.5 volley battlecruisers (javelin torps used because of sig radius), and 1 volley most cruisers. I expect the numbers to go down as I train up more of my missile support skills. 56km is more than enough for any mission, and I don't even use an afterburner. -Arazel Originally by: Tsanse Kinske Mutual Incomprehension is one of the Four Horsemen of most internet arguments, I guess, along with Unfettered Hostility, Overwhelming Vagueness, and Lack of Evidence.
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 13:08:00 - [18] I guess the main question is, is T2 Cruise better than T1 Torps? Im already close to Cruise :/... I dont use Torps much, experiemented when i first trained them. Semper Fi
Dark 'Shadow Shadow Fire Industries	Posted - 2008.10.01 13:25:00 - [19] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Harrent What is the Main advantage that the CNR has over the Raven? +1 launcher point and better HP all over. More CPU and Powergrid as well.
donzie Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.01 13:51:00 - [20] What was your fitting on the raven that you lost? that also might be the problem.. :P
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 14:05:00 - [21] Originally by: donzie What was your fitting on the raven that you lost? that also might be the problem.. :P HIGHS: 6 x Malkuth Cruise Missle Launchers 1 x Drone Link Aug I MEDS: 2 x Invul Field II 1 x Cap Recharge II 2 x Shield Boost Amp II 1 x X-L CL-5 Shield Booster LOWS: 4 X Cap Flux Coil 1 X Co Processor I RIGS: 3 x Cap Control Circuit I I just followed the loadout that i found on battleclinic, didnt even get a chance to really test it :/. Semper Fi
BATT Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.01 14:21:00 - [22] ""Would it be more wise of me to just go with the Cerberus as it is within the same price range? "" I used to fly a Cerberus long time ago and imo its a great and fun ship, it tanks like concrete.. but i believe for missions the raven is more functionnal because of the use of salvager and tractor beam for looting.. another thing is T2 ships insurance sucks.. with the isk u have now i would stick with the raven ,consolidate your skills...and use some "power diagnostics II " in your low ...and insure your ship..
InsanlyEvlPerson Gallente Night-Stalkers	Posted - 2008.10.01 14:27:00 - [23] Originally by: Harrent Originally by: donzie What was your fitting on the raven that you lost? that also might be the problem.. :P HIGHS: 6 x Malkuth Cruise Missle Launchers 1 x Drone Link Aug I MEDS: 2 x Invul Field II 1 x Cap Recharge II 2 x Shield Boost Amp II 1 x X-L CL-5 Shield Booster LOWS: 4 X Cap Flux Coil 1 X Co Processor I RIGS: 3 x Cap Control Circuit I I just followed the loadout that i found on battleclinic, didnt even get a chance to really test it :/. i suggest dropping the cap recharger and 1 invuln for a pair of rat specific hardners. might want to see if dropping one ofr the boost amps for another hardner helps out, and then u coudl jsut have 4 hardners, but honestly this sounds excessive. 2 hardners and an invuln should do well. best thing you can do is train up for T2 stuff.... --------------------------------------------- I may be a bit over Zealot, but i cant help myself, its the best investment i ever made!
donzie Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:31:00 - [24] You really should use rat specific hardeners, it helps a lot. and if you know you are fighting like guristas, it might be better to use a extra rat specific hardener instead of 2x boost amp ------------------------------------------ Originally by: CCP Atropos I was like, "no wai dude" and they were like "uhuh" so I said "NO WAI" and they said "uhuh"
Ieldan	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:33:00 - [25] The setup isnt bad, Its your skills mate You have 1.5 mill in missile all together, u need to get that up. To be decenlty effective u need to be at about 5-6 million, all the support skills to lvl 5 and specs to lvl 4. What are your shield skills like as well? Till then stick in the drake. A drake with proper fittings can do most lvl4's. Dont make the mistake of thinking bigger is better.
donzie Caldari Stormlord Battleforce Vanguard.	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:36:00 - [26] You should also use mission information sites, if you are new to lvl 4s, it might be better to skip AE and worlds collide. ------------------------------------------ Originally by: CCP Atropos I was like, "no wai dude" and they were like "uhuh" so I said "NO WAI" and they said "uhuh"
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 15:46:00 - [27] Edited by: Harrent on 01/10/2008 15:54:47 Edited by: Harrent on 01/10/2008 15:54:24 Originally by: Ieldan The setup isnt bad, Its your skills mate You have 1.5 mill in missile all together, u need to get that up. To be decenlty effective u need to be at about 5-6 million, all the support skills to lvl 5 and specs to lvl 4. What are your shield skills like as well? Till then stick in the drake. A drake with proper fittings can do most lvl4's. Dont make the mistake of thinking bigger is better. ENGINEERING: RANK 2 EN PULSE WEAPON RANK 3 EM SHIELD THERMIC SHIELD KIN SHIELD EXPLOSIVE SHIELD COMP SHIELD MANAGEMENT ENERGY MANAGEMENT ENERGY EMISSION SYS RANK 4 ENERGY GRID UPGRADES ENERGY SYS OPS ENGINEERING SHIELD EM SYS SHIELD OPERATION SHIELD UPGRADES TACTICAL SHIELD MANIP MISSLES: RANK 1 FOF HEAVY ASSAULT ROCKETS TORPS RANK 2 GUIDED MISSLE PREC WARHEAD UPGRADES RANK 3 CRUISE DEFENDER MISSLE PROJ RAPID LAUNCH TARGET NAV RANK 4 HEAVY MISSLES STANDARDS MISSLES RANK 5 MISSLE BOMBARDMENT MISSLE LAUNCHER OP Semper Fi
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 16:08:00 - [28] I know that it was my skills that got my prior raven killed, i was wondering when it might be acceptable to start flying IV's again, this time without the explosion of my investment. Im currently training Ship command to V and BS / BC to V as well as ADV learning books from III to IV. Semper Fi
Last Wolf Umbra Wing	Posted - 2008.10.01 16:19:00 - [29] Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/10/2008 16:21:13 Originally by: Harrent Originally by: donzie What was your fitting on the raven that you lost? that also might be the problem.. :P HIGHS: 6 x Malkuth Cruise Missle Launchers 1 x Drone Link Aug I MEDS: 2 x Invul Field II 1 x Cap Recharge II 2 x Shield Boost Amp II 1 x X-L CL-5 Shield Booster LOWS: 4 X Cap Flux Coil 1 X Co Processor I RIGS: 3 x Cap Control Circuit I I just followed the loadout that i found on battleclinic, didnt even get a chance to really test it :/. 8 slots devoted to cap recharge? No damage mods? Try this. 6x best launchers you can afford 2x whatever 1x X-large shield booster 2x primary damage hardeners 1x Secondary hardener (ex, 2x kin, 1x therm for gruistas) 1x target painter or cap recharger. Depending on mission (lots of frigs/cruisers use painter, lots of BS use cap recharger.) 1x boost amp 2-3x BCU 1-2x PDU. 1x co-pro if needed. or another BCU/PDU/capflux/whatever will fit 3x CCC rigs. 5x Hammerhead/Vespas 5x Hobgoblins/hornets. If you actually kill the targets you don't need to perma run your tank. __________________________________________________________ Originally by: Liang Nuren wrong forum isroy i am vjery drunm
Harrent Caldari	Posted - 2008.10.01 16:44:00 - [30] Originally by: Last Wolf Edited by: Last Wolf on 01/10/2008 16:21:13 Originally by: Harrent Originally by: donzie What was your fitting on the raven that you lost? that also might be the problem.. :P HIGHS: 6 x Malkuth Cruise Missle Launchers 1 x Drone Link Aug I MEDS: 2 x Invul Field II 1 x Cap Recharge II 2 x Shield Boost Amp II 1 x X-L CL-5 Shield Booster LOWS: 4 X Cap Flux Coil 1 X Co Processor I RIGS: 3 x Cap Control Circuit I I just followed the loadout that i found on battleclinic, didnt even get a chance to really test it :/. 8 slots devoted to cap recharge? No damage mods? Try this. 6x best launchers you can afford 2x whatever 1x X-large shield booster 2x primary damage hardeners 1x Secondary hardener (ex, 2x kin, 1x therm for gruistas) 1x target painter or cap recharger. Depending on mission (lots of frigs/cruisers use painter, lots of BS use cap recharger.) 1x boost amp 2-3x BCU 1-2x PDU. 1x co-pro if needed. or another BCU/PDU/capflux/whatever will fit 3x CCC rigs. 5x Hammerhead/Vespas 5x Hobgoblins/hornets. If you actually kill the targets you don't need to perma run your tank. Definitely give that a shot, but i think for now im going to stick with the drake until all my shield related skills are at least IV's Semper Fi

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