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To CVA regarding firing on Amarr Militia members.

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Wraithstorm Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.04 03:11:00 - [1] Edited by: Wraithstorm on 04/10/2008 03:14:17 Deciding to set an entity in the AMARR Militia hostile is one thing, however to enter our area of operation to hunt them down is another entirely. Especially when the pilot from said entity is on his way to assist a militia fleet. I have an obligation to defend the men under my (Fleet) Command, and I will do so vigorously. You may very well have your reasons for setting said entity red, however I will not tolerate you disrupting our fleets in sector. Be advised that you will be fired upon by Armada forces should we encounter you in our AOP disrupting our operations.
Wraithstorm Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.04 03:44:00 - [2] For substance: The Amarr militia was enroute to engage a hostile Minmitar fleet in the Amamake system when a distress call from a fleet pilot in a Claymore came across the comms channels. He was being engaged by approx 8 pirates. Upon entering the system our fleet realized that these "pirates" were infact CVA. Our fleet chased them to the control bunker in system, and engaged them, killing a Drake. They fled the field, and we then went on our way.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.04 04:07:00 - [3] Originally by: Wraithstorm Be advised that you will be fired upon by Armada forces should we encounter you in our AOP disrupting our operations. Understood, and thank you for fair warning.
Becq Starforged Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.04 05:37:00 - [4] CVA are pirates now, eh? Ah, how the mighty have fallen... -- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan The Flame of Freedom Burns On!
Daraasi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 07:13:00 - [5] Edited by: Daraasi on 04/10/2008 07:13:17 This is absolutely unacceptable. You will and must respect the actions and wishes of CVA, whose loyalty and purity of purpose is assured, over general Crusaders. If members under your command are involved with action against CVA, they are not fit for service. [I do not speak for my corporation, CVA, or any loyalist body.] Per Aspera Ad Astra Ceterum Censeo Jovenem Esse Delendam
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 07:37:00 - [6] Originally by: Daraasi Edited by: Daraasi on 04/10/2008 07:13:17 This is absolutely unacceptable. You will and must respect the actions and wishes of CVA, whose loyalty and purity of purpose is assured, over general Crusaders. If members under your command are involved with action against CVA, they are not fit for service. [I do not speak for my corporation, CVA, or any loyalist body.] That's a tall order right there big boy. So you're saying that the most successful Amarr Militia corp is "not fit for service" and in their stead you'll replace them with CVA, who continuously hinders fights against the Minmatar? That seems...well, let's cut to the chase: that seems stupid. CVA could have easily taken their forces and attacked the Minmatar hostiles one system away, or joined up with the Amarr forces. Instead they decided to gank a ship that was clearly traveling with an Amarrian fleet, interrupting the entire procession by acting like gun-happy yahoos, and then left. Face it, they could have accomplished more by not showing up. That's a sad fact right there. I'd really like to hear your rationalization; even a troglodyte can see the hypocrisy and sheer stupidity of your statement.
Daraasi Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 07:49:00 - [7] Most successful Amarr Militia corp, but what metric, certainly not a metric that's won us any systems. You can have fun with the crusaders, but you're neither indespensible nor more important than CVA. If you don't want to see CVA intervention inconveniance Militia fleets, you'll have to leave militia fleets when CVA turns up. Just as PIE members left Militia fleets when their war targets arrived. 'And, continuously hinders the fight against the minmatar' ? CVA have won the biggest victories against the minmatar in pod pilot history, certainly more than slacker industries, who can hardly point to any vaunted successes. The bottom line is that if anyone has to chose between CVA and a member of the militia, it's not a hard decision. [Again, i don't speak blah blah blah, i also havn't spell checked, got drones on my tail.] [[IGS has been ****ing me around recently so, this could well be a double post]]
Myrhial Arkenath Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.04 07:52:00 - [8] Funny this, considering a fleet of about 5 pilots of CVA passed by a gatecamp from us yesterday. Being the sole pilot on the gate, with just 3 others in the system, they could have easily engaged me and taken me out...but instead they chose to continue on the way. While I am glad for getting away, I do find this questionable.
Demonor Gallente Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.04 08:11:00 - [9] Originally by: Daraasi Edited by: Daraasi on 04/10/2008 07:13:17 This is absolutely unacceptable. You will and must respect the actions and wishes of CVA, whose loyalty and purity of purpose is assured, over general Crusaders. If members under your command are involved with action against CVA, they are not fit for service. [I do not speak for my corporation, CVA, or any loyalist body.] Funny how you say that....YOU WILL AND MUST RESPECT THE ACTIONS....IF you are not speaking for your corp or CVA or Loyalist body Why even speak, And your yapping away saying at what metric has that corp done for the Amarr Militia and in taking a system, First off get your facts straight before you bother posting such non-sense. No Disrespect I have much respect for PIE by all Means. I know many great member in PIE. IF indeed a certain body was Wardec'd sure they have a choice. But you see my friend there was no so called WARDEC involved. It's a Different story. SO things can be resolved maturely in diplomatic ways But if they decide to be all gun-ho and mighty then no nothing will be resolved.
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 09:43:00 - [10] Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/10/2008 09:44:24 If a corporation that is KOS to the CVA joins the militia, then the CVA won't automatically take them off the KOS list. Similarly, if a corporation that is KOS to PIE joins the militia, then we won't automatically take them off our list either. I don't see anything controversial with that - if it were any other way it would simply encourage malcontents to join the militia to escape justice. I would also suggest that the forums are not the best place to resolve disputes of this nature.
Bast's Cleric Amarr 24th Imperial Reserves	Posted - 2008.10.04 10:45:00 - [11] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/10/2008 09:44:24 If a corporation that is KOS to the CVA joins the militia, then the CVA won't automatically take them off the KOS list. Similarly, if a corporation that is KOS to PIE joins the militia, then we won't automatically take them off our list either. I don't see anything controversial with that - if it were any other way it would simply encourage malcontents to join the militia to escape justice. I would also suggest that the forums are not the best place to resolve disputes of this nature. I am Quoting this to bring attention to the fact that there is Truth in these words. If you started to shoot at your neighbors and then went to the police when they started to shoot back, this makes you no more, or less of the problem than anyone else involved.
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.04 12:15:00 - [12] Edited by: Chib on 04/10/2008 12:17:50 Lets Use another example, If the redswarm coalition had put its differences aside to finish bob off bob would not be taking nc space from them, but no the did not act cohesively while bob did and now they are paying the price for it Does the minmatar faction have problems with UK hunting its members? CVA are hindering the militia by shooting at any pilot wether he ate ammarrian babies or not its one thing to be killed/kill in 0.0 and another to go hunting them in low sec edit: before my involvement is questioned i am in armada also and in the top 10 killers for the faction past 2 weeks (i joined 2 weeks ago) ---------------------------------------------
Gangleri Amarr Vigilia Valeria Expeditionary Forces	Posted - 2008.10.04 12:43:00 - [13] * Marshal Gangleri looks very annoyed Wraithstorm, I respect your corp and the fine work is it doing within the war but you are walking a dangerous path, entangling you in this way with known pirates. Slacker Industries and all others that have committed piracy in the past and some still while in the Amarr Militia, are first themselves responsible for their past deeds. You are here and now declaring yourself defender of pirates. Any pirate can now move into the Amarr Militia, join your fleets and will then be defended by you against those who seek retribution on past aggression. Let me be clear about CVA. Vigilia Valeria is strong in the support of the Curatores Veritas Alliance, like we were there to assist the CVA push against UshraÆKhan forces and the completion of the reclaiming of Providence. When under attack from any Amarr Militia member or fleet, Vigilia Valeria will come to the aid of CVA and not to those of the Amarr Militia attacking. Meanwhile, I do hope we can all stand together in the militia to fight the most primary enemy, the Minmatar Militia. Vigilia Valeria has more then one Amarr Militia corp on its KOS list but while in the militia and not continuing their acts of piracy, VFOR will not shoot on those corps. Do realize that shooting on CVA members is considered as an act of piracy. We have asked CVA not to engage pod pilots on their KOS list in the Devoid and The Bleak Lands regions and I will ask them again to do so. VFOR is recruiting
Khan Rodak Amarr Manu Dei Vigilia Valeria	Posted - 2008.10.04 13:20:00 - [14] Those one allow into ones ranks too often are the measure of our reputation. Wrk it under that basis and you will find a solution on your own to this problem.
Scagga Laebetrovo Evil Bastards	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:39:00 - [15] Hrrr. Leave diplomacy to the diplomats.
Archbishop Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:47:00 - [16] If a previously pirate or criminal organization which has been KOS for such reason to various corporations and alliances joins the militia it would perhaps be beneficial for them to first contact the organization they had committed such transgression against. Apologize, pay restitution, vow to never do it again and pledge to support the Empire. While it is up to the individual organizations to accept such measures and remove a group from any KOS list it is important to remember they were put on a KOS list for a reason. Just joining the militia does not wipe the slate clear from years of piracy, crime and terror. Archbishop
Wraithstorm Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.04 14:57:00 - [17] Originally by: Rodj Blake Edited by: Rodj Blake on 04/10/2008 09:44:24 If a corporation that is KOS to the CVA joins the militia, then the CVA won't automatically take them off the KOS list. Similarly, if a corporation that is KOS to PIE joins the militia, then we won't automatically take them off our list either. I don't see anything controversial with that - if it were any other way it would simply encourage malcontents to join the militia to escape justice. I would also suggest that the forums are not the best place to resolve disputes of this nature. I have no interest in getting entangled into the global politics of CVA. I am standing my ground on the fact that the Slackker pilot killed was a member of MY Fleet on his way to destroy Minmitar pilots. This interferes with our operations. Now, quite frankly I dont care who gets involved, if you shoot one of my gangmembers, CVA or not I will hunt you down WITH the fleet Im in Command of and destroy you. Last night in my gang of 30 noone, NOONE had any qualms about shooting the CVA pilots who engaged our gangmate. If you want that kind of determintation set forth upon you then continue to shoot our gangmembers. Keep your policies in their space where they belong, NOT on our damn abttlefield hindering our efforts as we fight the Minmitar
Algey The Littlest Hobos Ushra'Khan	Posted - 2008.10.04 15:12:00 - [18] This makes me happy. A dead slaver is a dead slaver, whatever the cause
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.04 15:21:00 - [19] Quote: Does the minmatar faction have problems with UK hunting its members? Where U'K - or anyone else - hunts down parties that engage in criminal activities in the Republic space or against loyalist parties, we do not necessarily consider it a problem. But yes, the fact that anyone can join the Militia, that no RoE whatsoever is enforced, and that Militia as a whole cannot enter NAPs or other contracts, is a problem for all Militias. -- Help us defend the Republic; join Gradient today.
Greme Amarr Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 15:24:00 - [20] Edited by: Greme on 04/10/2008 15:24:25 Originally by: Wraithstorm Keep your policies in your space where they belong, NOT on our battlefield hindering our efforts as we fight the Minmitar Unforunately, whilst the so called protectors of Amarr should be protecting their empress through the support of the 24th Imperial Crusade against the Minmatar scourge, they are instead chasing personal profits in the lawless regions of the galaxy that are far from the wanting eyes of the new empress. Instead of focusing on where they are needed, they are focused on where they may obtain the greatest quantities of isk to fill their fat wallets and inflate their fat heads. Furthermore, I find their commentary on pirating both simultaneously hypocritical and amusing. That we should have engaged other pod-pilots for monetary gain in the past should not cover the fact that we are the ones protecting the regions in which our empress has decided to defend from the Minmatar scourge, and are inflicting considerable damage on those that fly under their false flag. And whilst you sit there accusing other of pirating, I must ask two questions of the CVA: #1 - what were your pirates were doing in the bleak lands sitting on a gate themselves when you have no apparent interest in helping secure the region? This action is often associated with the most basic form of pirating. #2 - how can you accuse people of pirating, when you yourselves have, in the past, been allied with some less that desirable (and lawful) entities. This last hypocrisy is the note that leaves me with a sardonic smile on my face as your attempts to spin and cover up your past actions continue to falter. Your constant flailing being akin to the spotted schoolyard bully finally meeting his comeuppance.
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 15:58:00 - [21] Originally by: Daraasi Most successful Amarr Militia corp, but what metric, certainly not a metric that's won us any systems. You are once again showing your ineptitude. This is true, our corporation has not done the much of what I deem to be the most most useless, no skill activity. Say you have a society where a doctor is asked to be a window cleaner. You can argue that the windows do need to be cleaned, buy why waste an enormous talent by focusing a highly-trained professional on cleaning windows? It's the same principle that I don't expect you to fully understand, but I make the analogy hoping that one day you will. Originally by: Daraasi 'And, continuously hinders the fight against the minmatar' ? CVA have won the biggest victories against the minmatar in pod pilot history, certainly more than slacker industries, who can hardly point to any vaunted successes. In the incredibly short stint we've had with the Amarr, we have destroyed more Minmatar than anyone else. I know it seems like I'm harping on this fact, but it's because you continually claim we are useless. You don't have to like us, you don't have to like ME, but denying my usefulness? That's downright absurd. I am the most decorated soldier in all of militias, what have you done? Originally by: Daraasi The bottom line is that if anyone has to chose between CVA and a member of the militia, it's not a hard decision. Ahh, so here the truth comes out. They are your friends and you will blindly support them regardless of their actions. Maybe if you were on the front lines, your blind support - and your juvenile blind hatred toward their enemies - would be thrown to question. You don't have to accept everything the mighty CVA says and does as absolute fact, you are a free man allowed to disagree with their means. Unless you fear them, and if that's the case I feel great pity for your "friendship" with them. Originally by: Rodj Blake If a corporation that is KOS to the CVA joins the militia, then the CVA won't automatically take them off the KOS list. I don't see anything controversial with that - if it were any other way it would simply encourage malcontents to join the militia to escape justice. You missed my point, which I have made time and time again. I don't want our corporation to be removed from the KOS list. Really, I don't care. I don't even want the CVA to stop their raids into the Militia's occupied system. I just want to let the world know what the so called caretakers of the Amarrian people are actually doing: trying to remove top fighters from the Crusade over a personal dispute. The CVA have no responsibilities toward the Militia, and they certainly are making it clear where their priorities lie. The only person amongst you with a level head is Garreck, he is also the only person who - upon seeing several militia targets and a single "corp" target - decided to momentarily ally with the corp targets to extinguish the militia targets, and afterwards we went our separate ways. Maybe it's because he noted that he couldn't kill me, but I like to think it's because of his pragmatism and comprehension of the situation around him. A child will do what you tell it to, a man will ask why. Garreck is clearly a man amongst boys. ----------
Feng Schui Minmatar Ghost Festival	Posted - 2008.10.04 16:05:00 - [22] Originally by: Myrhial Arkenath Funny this, considering a fleet of about 5 pilots of CVA passed by a gatecamp from us yesterday. Being the sole pilot on the gate, with just 3 others in the system, they could have easily engaged me and taken me out...but instead they chose to continue on the way. While I am glad for getting away, I do find this questionable. Wasn't it CVA that claimed we where set as hostile to them? If we are not, then CVA does indeed owe me a ship and clone. Project:Gank Pilgrim Guide
Shad0wsFury Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 16:25:00 - [23] CVA does nothing more than hinder the Amarr cause as of late. I don't care what they say. They take no active part in the recent combat between the Mimitars and Amarrians. It has been the "evil pirate" Slacker Industries that has been destroying more Mimitar ships than even the 24th Imperial Crusade can keep up with. It has been Slacker Industries defending the recently captured systems and harassing the enemy in their own systems. If CVA wants to keep us KOS, that's fine by me. If they want to bleat about how they support the Empress and fight the Mimitars while they're killing militia members involved in a fleet that are ACTUALLY killing the Mimitars, while CVA themselves are involved in pirate actions, then they look like idiots, and that's fine by me too.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.10.04 16:35:00 - [24] So, the Amarrians finally did something I wholeheartedly approve of - and entirely by accident as well? Truly, wonders never cease! ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Aria Jenneth Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.04 16:42:00 - [25] sigh So CVA unwillingness to forgive and forget is interfering with war operations, is it? I must admit to being ... unsurprised. Inflexible policies have a way of becoming obstructive when they encounter a situation they weren't designed for. I've flown with Slacker Industries; they're perhaps a bit piratical in the way that most groups that have inhabited nullsec at any time are, and they're certainly irreverent, but in a fight one could not ask for better allies. Firing on the Empire's defenders-- genuine defenders, not those flying under a false flag-- seems ... counterproductive. Of course, I say that as a very recently retired pirate with an interest in not being fired on by my own allies. It seems to me important to keep a clear notion of who the enemy is.
Lizbeth Sharpmoon Amarr Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2008.10.04 17:56:00 - [26] Edited by: Lizbeth Sharpmoon on 04/10/2008 17:58:56 * self-snip *
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.04 17:59:00 - [27] This is just one of many continuing acts of hostility of CVA towards active Amarr militia members and I'm glad it happened in such an unambiguous way as to show everybody the true role of CVA on the faction warfare operations theater. There is no more direct way to work towards the demise of an entity in New Eden than to destroy it's assets and ships in space. It's what the minmatar do to the Amarr militia. You have to be an irredeemable idiot in order to say with a straight face that no matter you assault an entity in space, you are still somehow helping it. With the same level of justification the minmatar militia can say it is helping the Amarr because its members say "good fight" after they have fought us. You speak of responsibility and consequences. Congratulations, CVA - the consequences of you fighting against Amarr forces is that you are now publicly recognized for what you are - a neutral and at times hostile entity and a hindrance to Amarr operations in the low sec area of the conflict. Your standing will no longer shield your operations from their logical consequences. It was totally worth the destruction of this one ship that you achieved. Whatever history we have had with CVA, we had a policy of not engaging its members in the FW area because we recognized the advantage of working together for a mutually beneficial goal - no matter that SL had no way to directly benefit from this implicit self-imposed NAP. Since CVA apparently has no appreciation for any higher goals than their private ones, this policy is now void - as I am sure you can see from yours and Severance's killboards. Good riddance too, since restraint has never been among SL's strong sides.
3ll3 Gallente Tranquillity Nation	Posted - 2008.10.04 18:13:00 - [28] Yeah it is none of my beas wax but I'm confused here by what I see. On one hand I see a group who have given indervidual a chance at redemption through duty and service to their cause. On the other I see people who want vengence and blood so much they would Cross Sword with those charged with defending and advancing there races Territory which they them selves are ding in zero Sec' Space. Would it not be better to arange some kind of duel between this indervidual and a champion from the party who seeks blood? Mind you saying that the more The two forces of Amarr fight the better it is for those in Matari Milta Hmnnn on second thought forget me and keep fighting amongst your selves please. Raises Fist and Wiggles
Josef Odinssen Caldari Caldari Imperial Empire Navy	Posted - 2008.10.04 18:29:00 - [29] This is Dissapointing News, It would be prudent to point out to the CVA diplomats that historically many nations have indeed been forced to pardon disavowed citizens in order to form a credible defence against a common foe, i refer back of course to our own Caldari Navy when fighting for indepedence, as a young Leuitenant many clones ago i left the Federation Navy in order to fight for my homeland, and without recruits from numerous often lawless groups of pirates we could possibly have not turned the tide of battle. Whilst CVA's anti-piracy policy is indeed honorable, one would have to suggest that they offer the opportunity for former disavowed Amarr Subjects to redeem their past crimes in service, after all they risk potential death to fight for the Empire, therefore if they survive the conflict and wish to pursue a new lawful life within a Victorious Empire than i believe they have earnt the right to a pardon. Such pardons should of course be careful considered, and not given out lightly without some proof of fealty to the Empire, however since some of our very best fighters our outlaws and are capable of humiliating entire divisions of our militia then I do not feel CVA can uphold its loyalty to the Empire without considering the role of former miscreants within our fighting force. Since this war is primarily privateer driven i do not see how victory can be taken without such "dogs of war".
Elsebeth Rhiannon Minmatar Gradient Electus Matari	Posted - 2008.10.04 18:56:00 - [30] This is a very refreshing thread indeed, by the way.

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