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Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 03:45:00 - [61] Originally by: Garreck Setting aside the actions of a CVA patrol (which were in accordance with publicly announced CVA intentions towards entities with "red" standing joining the Imperial Crusade, my own cooperation with Slackers notwithstanding...) It's interesting to me how questions of CVA's loyalty always come up in discussions concerning the Imperial Crusade. While CVA pushes the borders of the Empire into Providence and offers kind words to the Imperial Crusade on their successes in the Bleaklands, we continue to recieve nothing but flak for our efforts in Providence from members of the Imperial Crusade. The Holy Empire is finding strategic success on two fronts... ...and we're at each others' throats over who's doing more. Beautiful. Any private entity can claim space by force and proclaim they do it in the name of such and such. Until Providence is formally declared a part of the empire, its taxes are regulated by a decree and start getting collected, until the security status of its systems gets upgraded from total lawlessness and it accepts the regulations of CONCORD and the imperial navy sets in, I do not see how Providence can be associated with the Amarr empire any more than Delve for example. The caveat here being that CVA cannot get the security status of its space upgraded without needing to look for a new home for its vast industrial, corporate and housing structure. It is convenient to separate CVA actions which strengthen a point you need made, from those that contradict it, but it is precisely the contradiction of empty claims of "pushing the borders of the empire" on one hand, and open hostilities against Amarr forces on the other that cause us to evaluate CVA's loyalties. And the evaluation leaves little room for questioning, since CVA themselves have stated they have no obligation to the Amarr militia - to the extent that they arbitrarily destroy its assets and disrupt its operations as they see fit. Even the Minmatar Republic does not dare to go along with anything more than that. If tomorrow Minmatar diplomats claimed they were pushing the borders of the empire in their own way, would you buy that? And why do you buy it when CVA says so and does exactly as the Minmatar forces do?
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 03:51:00 - [62] Originally by: Ratio Legis Until Providence is formally declared a part of the empire, its taxes are regulated by a decree and start getting collected, until the security status of its systems gets upgraded from total lawlessness and it accepts the regulations of CONCORD and the imperial navy sets in... Update me when any of the militias successes and failures impact such factors as docking rights in stations (tax regulation), security status, or even sovereignty. CVA detractors within the Imperial Crusade have banged on and on about how the CVA does not impact anything concerning the Empire because of such factors as sovereignty...but the Imperial Crusade cannot themselves impact sovereignty. None of the militias can. And yet I will not deny that the Imperial Crusade has been terrifically successful at marginalizing threats to the Empire in the Bleaklands. Likewise, it's rediculous for members of the Imperial Crusade to deny that the CVA has been terrifically successful at marginalizing threats to the Empire in Providence.
Aria Jenneth Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.05 03:54:00 - [63] Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 05/10/2008 03:55:53 Edited by: Aria Jenneth on 05/10/2008 03:54:40 As a note, Mr. Garreck, the merits of congratulating a militia on its successes would seem to be outweighed by shooting at its members, don't you think? The Slackers have been members of their militia since the war's dawn, if I recall, and I might have thought they'd have earned a little courtesy by now. Apparently not, in CVA's eyes, a fact of which I'm sure various entities are taking note. One other thing about Slackers: they're one of the purest examples of massed Demented I can remember seeing. If you want to be able to aid the Crusade, well ... frankly in your place I'd be worried about getting shredded out of space by my own side on account of this policy, in the sense of finding it actively dangerous to join a militia fleet. It would be sort of tragically hilarious if the Amarr-Minmatar conflict were to become a three-way war.
Wraithstorm Armada.	Posted - 2008.10.05 03:55:00 - [64] Originally by: Garreck Setting aside the actions of a CVA patrol (which were in accordance with publicly announced CVA intentions towards entities with "red" standing joining the Imperial Crusade, my own cooperation with Slackers notwithstanding...) It's interesting to me how questions of CVA's loyalty always come up in discussions concerning the Imperial Crusade. While CVA pushes the borders of the Empire into Providence and offers kind words to the Imperial Crusade on their successes in the Bleaklands, we continue to recieve nothing but flak for our efforts in Providence from members of the Imperial Crusade. The Holy Empire is finding strategic success on two fronts... ...and we're at each others' throats over who's doing more. Beautiful. I think we are both doing what we can within the paramters we can operate in, however when one of those lines are crossed things start to get ugly. Slackers are the top performing Corporation in the Amarr militia. That is not to say that they shouldnt pay for whatever atrocities they are responsible for within the Providence region, or to CVA in general, however credit must be given where credit is due. I can assure you that if they were doing more harm then good within the Militia that they wouldnt have the support from militia Corporations as they clearly do now. To chase them past that, and interfere with Militia operations is a dangerous game, and threatens what cohesion exists between militia and Empire. (CVA) Surely you wouldnt want militia pilots in Providence interfering with your defense from whatever s****you happen to be fighting... Regarding Armada,Until our mishap in Providence, and even after CVA Diplomats have been nothing but cooperative, and forthcoming in helping Armada Command come to a peaceful resolution. Armada has nothing but the highest respect to MOST of CVA and the pilots that fight for her. This is about the militia and our operations, nothing more. Could this have been dealt with through diplomatic channels? Possibly, however the attitude of the CVA pilots in local that evening sparked anger in most of the 30 men and women in that fleet, and I felt the need to voice that anger publically.
Andreus Ixiris Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:00:00 - [65] Originally by: Ratio Legis Any private entity can claim space by force and proclaim they do it in the name of such and such. Until Providence is formally declared a part of the empire, its taxes are regulated by a decree and start getting collected, until the security status of its systems gets upgraded from total lawlessness and it accepts the regulations of CONCORD and the imperial navy sets in, I do not see how Providence can be associated with the Amarr empire any more than Delve for example. The caveat here being that CVA cannot get the security status of its space upgraded without needing to look for a new home for its vast industrial, corporate and housing structure. Funny to hear an Amarrian loyalist make the same point I've been making for months. CVA think that simply being Loyalists and saying that Providence is Imperial space makes it so. ----- CEO, Mixed Metaphor Dance Commander
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:03:00 - [66] Edited by: Ratio Legis on 05/10/2008 04:05:08 Originally by: Garreck Likewise, it's rediculous for members of the Imperial Crusade to deny that the CVA has been terrifically successful at marginalizing threats to the Empire in Providence. Would you kindly explain to all of us here exactly what are these massive threats to the Empire that CVA has been eradicating for years in the non-regulated, privately managed, unaffiliated with any official political entity space of Providence? What could possibly be as threatening as to warrant the whole attention of an organization as large as CVA to focus away from the active effort of the whole Minmatar Republic to forcefully claim occupancy - and de facto souvereignity - of the Bleak Lands? And what makes CVA's effort different from BoB's effort to eradicate threats to anything really, including the Amarr empire, from Delve?
Aria Jenneth Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:12:00 - [67] Ah, actually, Mr. Legis, CVA used to have a nearby neighbor: Ushra'Khan. The fact that Ushra'Khan is nomadic, rather than holding territory and harvesting assets from it to turn against the Empire, is mostly CVA's doing. Mr. Garreck does have that point.
Shad0wsFury Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:12:00 - [68] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Ratio Legis Until Providence is formally declared a part of the empire, its taxes are regulated by a decree and start getting collected, until the security status of its systems gets upgraded from total lawlessness and it accepts the regulations of CONCORD and the imperial navy sets in... Update me when any of the militias successes and failures impact such factors as docking rights in stations (tax regulation), security status, or even sovereignty. CVA detractors within the Imperial Crusade have banged on and on about how the CVA does not impact anything concerning the Empire because of such factors as sovereignty...but the Imperial Crusade cannot themselves impact sovereignty. None of the militias can. And yet I will not deny that the Imperial Crusade has been terrifically successful at marginalizing threats to the Empire in the Bleaklands. Likewise, it's rediculous for members of the Imperial Crusade to deny that the CVA has been terrifically successful at marginalizing threats to the Empire in Providence. You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. You may idealize yourselves as an extension of the Amarr Empire, but you are nothing more than another 0.0 alliance that (rightly) puts your own interests first, happens to enjoy rp-ing, and happens to be located relatively close to the Empire home of the faction it CHOOSES to ally itself with. You are not special, and you are not an "extension" of the Amarr Empire. You want to support the Amarr Empire in FW? Stop shooting at the Amarr Militia members. Your choice to compare Empire based Faction Warfare to 0.0 based player warfare is also somewhat laughable. Sovereignty doesn't make sense in Empire because all the solar systems have already been given a permanent sovereignty by belonging to one of the four Empires (hence the term "Empire"). Game mechanics like docking rights, security status or sovereignty belong out in 0.0 because they were mechanics invented so that player run corporations and alliances can build their OWN empire in 0.0. Whether you want to claim allegiance to a specific Empire or other corporation is completely up to every corp on their own, but the fact remains that it is YOU that control the space in 0.0, NOT the Amarr Empire (in CVA's case), or whoever else you claim allegiance to. So, now the question is down to what is this really about CVA? Is it about the Amarr Empire, or your own?
MirrorGod Heretic Militia	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:21:00 - [69] "Amarr will eat itself" as they say... Save Small Gang Warfare
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:23:00 - [70] Originally by: Ratio Legis Would you kindly explain to all of us here exactly what are these massive threats to the Empire that CVA has been eradicating for years in the non-regulated, privately managed, unaffiliated with any official political entity space of Providence? Well, Ushra'Khan for starters. Originally by: Ratio Legis And what makes CVA's effort different from BoB's effort to eradicate threats to anything really, including the Amarr empire, from Delve? What makes any organization's efforts and spoken loyalties different from another's? And what makes CVA's engagement of Slackers any different from the targetting of various organizations within the militia by Slackers? Or are we forgetting such actions so soon? I supported Slackers in principle then...but there's principle in this instance as well. Lot of double standards flying around here.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:24:00 - [71] Edited by: Garreck on 05/10/2008 04:25:34 Originally by: Shad0wsFury You can say it as many times as you want, but that doesn't make it true. No more or less so than the "CVA don't fight for the Empire in Providence" rhetoric. Originally by: Shad0wsFury You want to support the Amarr Empire in FW? Stop shooting at the Amarr Militia members. Once again...with Slackers as our shining example of not shooting Amarr Militia members?
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:25:00 - [72] Originally by: Garreck While CVA pushes the borders of the Empire into Providence and offers kind words to the Imperial Crusade on their successes in the Bleaklands, we continue to recieve nothing but flak for our efforts in Providence from members of the Imperial Crusade. The Holy Empire is finding strategic success on two fronts... ...and we're at each others' throats over who's doing more. Beautiful. I don't think this is an accurate assessment, if I may quote from earlier in this thread. Originally by: Daraasi Members under your command [Slacker Industries] are...not fit for service. Originally by: Daraasi You [Slacker Industries] can have fun with the crusaders, but you're neither indespensible[sic] nor more important than CVA. Originally by: Daraasi CVA have won the biggest victories against the minmatar in pod pilot history, certainly more than slacker industries, who can hardly point to any vaunted successes Originally by: Archbishop A pirate is still a pirate when he joins the militia unless he repents and apologizes for his sins. Originally by: Ikar Kaltin Just because some sycophants in the Navy decided to recruit some of the dredges of society [Slacker Industries] to help cull some Matari dogs, it does not change our stance.... If the Empire allows for alliances to become involved in the crusade I can assure you that the services of you and your pirate friends will only be needed for hauling garbage scows Those don't really seem like kind words at all. Where is the respect? I have the blood of some 700 Matari warriors on my hands and I get called useless? Something seems wrong with this picture. And we aren't "giving you flak", we're merely pointing out the hilarious hypocrisy of your alliance mates who, when given the choice to attack Minmatar or attack Amarrian crusaders, decide to attack Amarrian crusaders. The CVA, of course, are more than welcome to do these things. Who am I to judge? But your organization cannot, and should not, wave the banner of the Empire while simultaneously aiding the Minmatar. The CVA is out to protect the interests of the CVA and the CVA alone, this much is clear. I respect you Garreck as you are the only decent CVA pilot I have encountered; the only person who seems to give a damn. Also, the only CVA pilot whom I have witnessed killing Matari pilots. Coincidence? Your alliance mates, however, seem to think that we are useless and would rather us not be involved at all. As you can see above, I'm treated like a second-class citizen. So yes, the Empire is finding success on two fronts. But the CVA seems perfectly happy spitting on the accomplishments of the Crusaders at every opportunity. I have never received, nor have I asked, for thanks. I work hard for the Empire; both my Corporation and myself have been the most decorated Crusaders for weeks now, and yet we have never been offered to meet the Empress. During the coronation, we were snubbed and decided to fight instead. We haven't even asked for the CVA, who seem hellbent on trying to kill us whenever they see fit, to stop. We've merely made information public, and been lambasted for it. A pilot in my own Militia, who is completely and utterly useless might I add, even had the gall to say that I did nothing of consequence. His blind love for the CVA made him say this; his devotion to his corporation caused him to look beyond facts and make up lies. In the words of the late, great Mr. Rodney Dangerfield, "I don't get no respect". You may not be aware of him, but he was a comedic genius. ----------
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:30:00 - [73] Originally by: Elise Randolph The CVA is out to protect the interests of the CVA and the CVA alone, this much is clear. Providence would be run very differently indeed if this were true. CVA and Slackers have long-standing hostilities. Trying to bind those hostilities so closely to our loyalty or disloyalty to the Empire is massively short-sighted and logically unsound.
Orun Erajen Gallente Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:32:00 - [74] Originally by: Garreck ... is massively short-sighted and logically unsound. So, quintessentially Amarrian, then? ----- Orun Erajen LeHane Family Representative and Capsuleer Liason
Chib Storm Guard Elite	Posted - 2008.10.05 04:59:00 - [75] I fear the short sightedness lays with CVA for continuing to pursue Slackers who as stated are THE MOST effective corporation for the imperial militia i cannot reiterate that enough NOONE i repeat NOONE has killed more minmatar than Slackers does this not carry any weight with the powers that be in CVA? Is there no forgive and forget? People and entities can be on one side one week then another the next for their own reasons and i think the term "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" should apply CVA may consider itself hold providence for the amarr empire but as stated before UK have done more for the other side than CVA has done for Amarr. You claim you hold the space giving out docking rights and allowing access to the resources of providence, I can fit an ishtar and take my pick of those resources at will and theres nothing you could do to stop me as is the case with any alliance holding space anywhere in the universe. And afterwards its a short trip to the empire to dock for the night. So what you really offer is convienience when whats needed is pilots and ships....Today both the Gallante and the Minmatar Militiamen combined forces far outnumbering the amarrian warriors and with forces that size floating about we are supposed to watch our backs from so called loyalists because some carebear lost their mammoth etc etc In times of war like this when the empire is battling hard for its territory CVA sits out in a lawless area participating in 0.0 alliance warefare and not that which may affect the empire surviving or falling ---------------------------------------------
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:04:00 - [76] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Ratio Legis Would you kindly explain to all of us here exactly what are these massive threats to the Empire that CVA has been eradicating for years in the non-regulated, privately managed, unaffiliated with any official political entity space of Providence? Well, Ushra'Khan for starters. Originally by: Ratio Legis And what makes CVA's effort different from BoB's effort to eradicate threats to anything really, including the Amarr empire, from Delve? What makes any organization's efforts and spoken loyalties different from another's? And what makes CVA's engagement of Slackers any different from the targetting of various organizations within the militia by Slackers? Or are we forgetting such actions so soon? I supported Slackers in principle then...but there's principle in this instance as well. Lot of double standards flying around here. In any standing army, shooting your own troops is regarded as treason and is dealt with swiftly and decisively. Both of Slacker's wars against corporations within the militia were prefaced with friendly targeting incidents by the corps we declared war against. In the absence of a military police force, we took it upon ourselves to deal with the traitors, and we did so in an effective manner. Even while at war, we were ready to temporarily cease hostilities and work together with our war targets within the same fleet against the Minmatar forces. After a time we deemed sufficient to convey the message, we dropped both wars, and were - and are - ready to continue working with our former war targets against the Minmatar. In the case of Series of Tubes, after the war we developed close ties and on occasion work together more closely than with the rest of the militia. We have always recognized the existence of the common enemy and the priority of us fighting the minmatar before anything else. In the end, our actions proved beneficial to the militia as a whole, weeding out internal conflict and setting a common standard for everyone. Proof for this is the attitude of the militia towards us. Contrasting to this, the CVA have clung on their private grudges against different militia members and have refused to acknowledge the importance of working together on the territory of the Bleak Lands or anywhere else. In contrast to our acts of hostility, what they do has in no shape or form a constructive goal and cannot possibly lead to any benefit to the militia or the Amarr as a whole. They are motivated by revenge and are ready to trample the interest of the Amarr in order to get it. As of you saying that the UK are more dangerous than the whole Minmatar Republic, I don't know what to reply. I can only advise you to carry on guarding Providence against this scourge instead of defending the Amarr territory in the Bleak Lands, since that's what you're going to do anyway.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:15:00 - [77] Originally by: Chib I fear the short sightedness lays with CVA for continuing to pursue Slackers who as stated are THE MOST effective corporation for the imperial militia I fear the short-sightedness lies with any who feel the only measure of CVA loyalty is our level of involvement in one particular conflict that has so far lasted only a very short period of time and is going quite the way we would like it to go without much direct involvement on our part. I fear the short-sightedness lies with any who cannot see the benefits of (and take advantage of the benefits of) an Amarr-loyal alliance holding space with many access points to and from the Empire and who keep that space open and protected and with an ever-growing economy. I fear the short-sightedness lies with those who would label CVA's years of service as worthless because we maintain hostilities with an organization who only months ago preyed on one of those access points to the Empire.
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:17:00 - [78] Edited by: Yendaj on 05/10/2008 05:22:10 Edited by: Yendaj on 05/10/2008 05:21:25 Edited by: Yendaj on 05/10/2008 05:20:38 Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Elise Randolph The CVA is out to protect the interests of the CVA and the CVA alone, this much is clear. Providence would be run very differently indeed if this were true. CVA and Slackers have long-standing hostilities. Trying to bind those hostilities so closely to our loyalty or disloyalty to the Empire is massively short-sighted and logically unsound. The sad reality is, NO ONE in the Universe wants providence.... There is no great threat to providence at all.... You also have your great MEATSHIELD in Pax/sylph ..... How could you possibly justify your actions knowing full well this to be true CVA?? The couple of times I saw cva pilots on the field in bleak lands, we eradicated them so quickly I barely had time to apply lip gloss.. What truely makes me sad...... Is that right now, there are more minmatar corps fighting in the minmatar militia who respect and admire both Armada and Slackers, than there are in their own militia and Amarr Empire.. This just blows my mind..... You sad sad Amarrian morons are actually going to rue the day I feel.. You kick your dog hard enough, sooner or later it bites back or it runs away from home. Very rarely does a brave dog cower at your feet as you expect it to. (edit: couldnt spell sylph to save myself.. omg) ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:24:00 - [79] Originally by: Ratio Legis Both of Slacker's wars against corporations within the militia were prefaced with friendly targeting incidents by the corps we declared war against. In the absence of a military police force, we took it upon ourselves to deal with the traitors, and we did so in an effective manner. Even while at war, we were ready to temporarily cease hostilities and work together with our war targets within the same fleet against the Minmatar forces. After a time we deemed sufficient to convey the message, we dropped both wars, and were - and are - ready to continue working with our former war targets against the Minmatar. In the case of Series of Tubes, after the war we developed close ties and on occasion work together more closely than with the rest of the militia. I'm quite aware of the circumstances and outcomes of Slackers wars within the Imperial Crusade. It was a huge success story and allowed the Crusade to accomplish what it has accomplished so far. Perhaps, instead of insulting CVA pilots for executing CVA's publicly announced policy towards hostile entities joining up with the Crusade, it would be more appropriate to open private diplomatic channels with CVA and see if differences could be overcome. Y'know, not unlike the way the internal Imperial Crusade conflicts were handled. Or perhaps it's indeed more beneficial for us to remain in a state of hostility, and to air our dirty laundry in front of the public? Yes, that must be the case, since it has been well established that members of the Imperial Crusade surely know what's better for service to the Empire than CVA...
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:34:00 - [80] Originally by: Yendaj The couple of times I saw cva pilots on the field in bleak lands, we eradicated them so quickly I barely had time to apply lip gloss.. According to my records the one time (not plural) that you've engaged CVA pilots in the Bleaklands, it was as part of a 90-vessel fleet and you were flying a falcon. You must take your time with that lip-gloss, as 30 CVA vessels managed to trade 16 of ours for 20 of yours in a match that should have been over before it started. Any more gems to add to this discussion, beyond the fact that of course Heretic Nation would have nothing nice to say about the CVA?
Elise Randolph Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:34:00 - [81] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Elise Randolph The CVA is out to protect the interests of the CVA and the CVA alone, this much is clear. Providence would be run very differently indeed if this were true. Really? Because the way I see it, and the way the rest of the community with half a brain sees it, is that the CVA profit from taxes, docking fees, et cetera from otherwise worthless swaths of space. They use the "fight against U'K" as a facade, and implement a "neutral friendly" policy to attract more business. Without doubt these were not the intentions of CVA to start off, but it's seemingly what CVA metamorphosized into. This may not be the case, but it is the perceived reality of which you are probably unaware. The people you surround yourself with will fight tooth and nail, as evidenced here, to shelter you from any criticisms. So accept this nugget of information as a gift. Who said I was a bad guy (oh right, CVA did ) Quote: CVA and Slackers have long-standing hostilities. Trying to bind those hostilities so closely to our loyalty or disloyalty to the Empire is massively short-sighted and logically unsound. You seem to have missed the point, which is partially my fault I'm sure. Armada just made public what CVA's actions were, and what they felt to be appropriate. CVA and CVA allies alike then all felt the sudden urge to say how awful and useless that we are, and how both Armada and Slackers were the s****of the universe. Really not called for, especially since Armada is only guilty of flying alongside Slackers and nothing more, and yet they get ridiculed. So not only am I stripped of respect, but the people who fly next to me are also excoriated. Wonderful, this. Just wonderful. ----------
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:44:00 - [82] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Yendaj The couple of times I saw cva pilots on the field in bleak lands, we eradicated them so quickly I barely had time to apply lip gloss.. According to my records the one time (not plural) that you've engaged CVA pilots in the Bleaklands, it was as part of a 90-vessel fleet and you were flying a falcon. You must take your time with that lip-gloss, as 30 CVA vessels managed to trade 16 of ours for 20 of yours in a match that should have been over before it started. Any more gems to add to this discussion, beyond the fact that of course Heretic Nation would have nothing nice to say about the CVA? Looking up battle reports on one engagement and then completely forgetting the few cva pilots who have showed up on other occasions is ofcourse the usual MO for how you reply? Twist a few things around to make CVA look all the better? Considering how very much your alliance protests to killing more minmatar than any other amarrian force, im finding this pill as little hard to swallow You also seem to be missing some of your faculties when it comes to report reading... I register 18 ship loses on our records of CVA ships and only 12 loses over the course of time of our own ships... Thats not a bad trade in my opinion... 901.9M damages done to CVA enterprises... That is a happy face I have on right now considering how little you do show up to support the Amarr cause. ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:46:00 - [83] Originally by: Elise Randolph Because the way I see it, and the way the rest of the community with half a brain sees it, is that the CVA profit from taxes, docking fees, et cetera from otherwise worthless swaths of space. Only folks who have never administered space would think that CVA profits from Providence, which is, financially speaking, precisely what you describe. Originally by: Elise Randolph You seem to have missed the point, which is partially my fault I'm sure. Armada just made public what CVA's actions were, and what they felt to be appropriate. CVA and CVA allies alike then all felt the sudden urge to say how awful and useless that we are, and how both Armada and Slackers were the s****of the universe. Really not called for, especially since Armada is only guilty of flying alongside Slackers and nothing more, and yet they get ridiculed. Armada's position was quickly and politely acknowledged. It was quite some time before any member of CVA weighed in again, and that was only after misconception after misconception was thrown about (discouting, of course, the various insults.) If we're happy to leave it at "Armada will be stepping up with Slackers against CVA," then so be it. I've really nothing more to add as that's fairly straight-forward, and any changes to that situation will be handled through private diplomatic channels. If, however, we're going to continue dancing in circles with "CVA don't server the Empire etc" then I'll continue to put such notions in their proper perspective for the casual observer.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:53:00 - [84] Originally by: Yendaj Looking up battle reports on one engagement and then completely forgetting the few cva pilots who have showed up on other occasions is ofcourse the usual MO for how you reply? I reported your involvement, Slave-kin, because you boasted of your involvement. Is claiming personal credit for your organization's efforts the usual MO for how you reply?
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:53:00 - [85] Edited by: Yendaj on 05/10/2008 05:55:17 Originally by: Garreck If we're happy to leave it at "Armada will be stepping up with Slackers against CVA," then so be it. I've really nothing more to add as that's fairly straight-forward, and any changes to that situation will be handled through private diplomatic channels. . Well by crikey you can count us in Armada and Slackers.... Heretic Nation will gladly step up and fly by your side, any one of you... We respect and admire both corporations and outside of the fact they are war targets, we also consider them friends. (edit: inserted missing word) ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 05:58:00 - [86] Originally by: Garreck Originally by: Yendaj Looking up battle reports on one engagement and then completely forgetting the few cva pilots who have showed up on other occasions is ofcourse the usual MO for how you reply? I reported your involvement, Slave-kin, because you boasted of your involvement. Is claiming personal credit for your organization's efforts the usual MO for how you reply? Yes... why? 1. Because we DO DO WHAT WE SAY WE WILL DO 2. Because we dont ponce about pretending to care about something when we really dont 3. Because we respect and admire quality pod pilots, regardless of religion 4. Because finally CVA have shown their true colours and its so amusing I cant put it down <3 ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:03:00 - [87] Originally by: Yendaj 1. Because we DO DO WHAT WE SAY WE WILL DO Not unlike CVA shooting at hostiles aligned with the Crusade after publicly announcing we will shoot at hostiles aligned with the Crusade. It is pleasing that you can relate. If there were any misconceptions about our "true colors" in this regard, it is also pleasing to have that squared away. At least we won't have more hostile organizations joining the Crusade thinking that CVA will stop shooting at them as a result. I don't feel Slackers joined the Crusade specifically for that reason...but CVA must enforce that policy because there are many who would join the Crusade specifically for that reason if we failed to maintain a strong stance in that regard.
Ratio Legis Slacker Industries	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:05:00 - [88] Originally by: Garreck Perhaps, instead of insulting CVA pilots for executing CVA's publicly announced policy towards hostile entities joining up with the Crusade, it would be more appropriate to open private diplomatic channels with CVA and see if differences could be overcome. It might have been more appropriate, before a third party got dragged in the middle of this, but not any more. Because said publicly announced policy is so obviously counterproductive and blatantly idiotic that anybody executing it without question is already an insult to humanity in general. Because it wasn't us who brought up the issue, but it won't be us either who will let Wraithstorm and Armada take the consequences of somebody else's idiocy because they reacted to a hostile act against one of our members. Because too many CVA members and supporters are trying hard and utterly failing at misrepresenting CVA activity in general and CVA attitude towards the Amarr militia in particular. Too many absurd claims have been made on these pages to just let this slide. If you need to place blame, I suggest starting with the genius who invented your policy. It's not its the application towards SL that needs fixing but the principle it conveys. As long as you unconditionally place private interest before any common good while claiming to work for a higher goal, you will deserve mockery in public.
Garreck Amarr Border Defense Consortium Curatores Veritatis Alliance	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:12:00 - [89] Originally by: Ratio Legis Because said publicly announced policy is so obviously counterproductive and blatantly idiotic that anybody executing it without question is already an insult to humanity in general. More productive commentary. I wish Slackers continued success against the Tribal Liberation Forces.
Yendaj Minmatar Heretic Army Heretic Nation	Posted - 2008.10.05 06:15:00 - [90] Legis sweetheart We are wasting our breath Obviously CVA are Masters at twisting everything they say, and we say and everyone else says to suit their own agenda... For the most part in a feeble attempt to gain back public sympathy and support.. Ofcourse they lack the ability to register the brain capacity of the general public and the fact that most of them have a rather high level of logic.. A three legged dog with a full bladder is capable of determining that everythig CVA is doing is counter productive to the war efforts of the Amarr and that they are indeed self obsessed and self promoting, with little concern for what is going on in the war effort.. The remind me of someone else who communicates at a rate of 9 k/s on Galnet.... What was her name again??? Rev..... Yes, shes about as important as they are. CVA has spent a great deal of time promoting themselves as a super power and the saviour of the Amarr... Time you blokes woke up and realised that its corporations like slackers and armada that will be your saviours.. To quote my beloved in describing Slackers "Slackers has been holding the roof over the Amarrian Militia for so long now, there's going to be one hell of a cave in when they remove the struts" Never in a million years would any of the Minmatar supporters like Electus Matari or Ushra Khan behave in such a manner as CVA has....... Amarr may have their precious religion Minmatar sure as heck got the brains and the survival instincts... ** Nemo Me Impune Lacessit **

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