|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
   |
Posted - 2008.10.05 09:37:00 -
[1]
In terms of volume I very much doubt that BPO's have much of an effect on the market, they are just an easy target for producers who didn't think invention through very much.
It was obvious from the start that invention would pretty much make T2 industry the same as T1 industry. As profit is only the value the producer puts on their time and effort, margins were always going to drop to a similar level.
When T2 supply was very limited prices were inflated - not just by the producers, but also by reselling. However, when volumes increased to the kind we see today, large scale market control through reselling became almost impossible, and probably too risky financially to be worth the effort.
Sure T2 BPO producers might make a bit of a premium for anything the sell on they open market, but volumes are low and restricted.
Also, lots of BPO's are in alliance hands anyway and the stuff they produce never gets to the open market.
The problem is that T2 inventors want to feel like BPO owners did, rather than face the pressures of the open market. But seriously, what did they think invention was going to lead to? Higher volumes of super profitable items? If so, they are hardly the sort of people who should be pointing out flaws in any economic system.
(no, I don't own any of them either, before you start comming at me with pitchforks!)
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.06 16:59:00 -
[2]
 Originally by: Gamer4liff
Edited by: Gamer4liff on 05/10/2008 16:22:09
Originally by: Avon
In terms of volume I very much doubt that BPO's have much of an effect on the market, they are just an easy target for producers who didn't think invention through very much.
Not true at all, for many ships, like Damnations for instance, 100% of the supply is T2 BPO based. (Maybe 99% if some stupid inventor didn't realize it was impossible to profit off of invention for them).
It would be pretty trivial to run a search of T2 items sold vs max possible production from bpo.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.06 17:22:00 -
[3]
Originally by: Gamer4liff
Then go for it, the demand for damnations is so low that the numbers would speak for themselves. There are what, 40-60 damnation BPOs? More than enough to satisfy all demand.
Hang on ... you do this whole T2 BPO's are ruining the market thing, and yet you have no idea how many bpo's exist?
I strongly suggest you look in to that before you continue discussing the effect they have.
.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.07 20:22:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Avon on 07/10/2008 20:22:54
Originally by: Abrazzar
Your massive investment of billions of ISK in a T2 BPO is a massive failure anyway, needing *years* to get even. You scammed yourself. And yet you expect CCP to show consideration for your massive fail and support your idiocy. Get real ffs.
It takes years to get a return on maxing out learning skills too - people still do it.
There is nothing wrong with forward planning.
Besides, if you spend billions knowing it will take years to turn a profit from a BPO what does it matter?
The ISK spent isn't wasted .. you can always sell the BPO on and get your ISK back ... and people do.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 00:13:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Despite your protestations no amount of mission-running will gain you a T2 BPO unless some other player decides to let you have one. That's antithetic to the basic sandbox nature of the game.
Sandboxes do not automatically spawn more buckets and rakes just because more people come to play in it.
Usually you have to give the kid with the rake a bribe or a punch on the nose in order to deprive them of said item, or wait until they leave and hope they don't take the rake with them.
The problem isn't the sandbox nature of the game, it is that people want the nice green plastic rake (rather than scratching at the sand with a stick as a rake substitue), and expect them to either provided equally, or removed from everyone.
Kids like that are no fun - and end up working in Burger King, wondering why no-one gave them a multi-national to run, or a country, or whatever.
No motivation, no drive, no vision ... no hope.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:23:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Words
Lots of words, but they don't seem to address the fact that production from BPOs is volume restricted.
Sure you might make a bigger profit per item, but you can't make many of them.
Inventors, however, can produce higher volumes, but at a lower per item profit.
Inventors can also adapt to the market enviroment, switching production to fill demand, and have a much lower startup cost and a shorter roi.
Both methods have their advantages and disadvantages.
Removing BPOs would not dramtically change the end price of popular items, but it would stiffle availability of lower demand, marginal profit items.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 20:26:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
The problem with T2 BPOs is that for T2 BPOs owners that price is always lower than it is for inventors. Due to the way markets are (and are implemented) this means that T2 BPO owners will always be able to undercut inventors. Make less profit, but still competing (against each other). Inventors can't compete with this advantage, and since they can't realistically acquire a T2 BPO, this means that these markets are permanently skewed against them.
Just buy all the BPO produced items and resell them at your invention price.
The volume is finite, so it is possible.
Reselling can be very profitable, trust me.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:04:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Avon on 08/10/2008 22:04:11
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
How does that possibly matter? As you said: "You can produce bigger profit per item". That's it, that's the point. If that's not enough (and it is) You can also (while I'm running the invention attempts to generate my inferior BPCs) bang off copies of your researched BPO and then run them in parallel.
Except you can't do that.
It takes longer to per run to copy a T2 BPO than it does to produce the item, precisely to prevent what you describe.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:31:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
Or you can run your own invention jobs in those slots and still make more profit. Either way you win while inventors without T2 BPOs lose. And there's nothing inventors can do to change that. The volume argument is flawed.
Selective quoting ftl.
So your arguement is that to compete with the potential profits of inventors, BPO owners could always turn to invention?
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.08 22:46:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
No metrics will change the basic fact that T2 BPO provide an unfair advantage for their holders in comparison with inventors.
Define unfair?
Some people invest 10's of billions of ISK on BPO's with 4 or 5yr roi's.
Unfair would be removing them because you don't want to invest, the advantage is earned.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
|
|
Avon
Caldari
Black Nova Corp
Band of Brothers
|
Posted - 2008.10.12 12:16:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Avon on 12/10/2008 12:16:29
Originally by: Bartholomeus Crane
They made several references to the (possibly at this stage) unbalanced state of T2 BPOs against invention, and their ideas on how to tackle it.
Think about that for a second.
Why did they give invention prints -ve ME?
Do you think it was a typo, or do you think that maybe, just maybe, it was an intentional move to make sure that BPO's maintained an advantage over invention?
If CCP wanted invention to be better than it is, it would be.
Eve-Online: The Text Adventure |
|
|
| |
|