EVE Search - Falcons, jammers, ECCM and Eos

All Channels

Ships and Modules

Falcons, jammers, ECCM and Eos

» Click here to find additional results for this topic using Google

Monitor this thread via RSS [?]

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 0 post(s)
TZeer Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:09:00 - [1] As most people know the Falcon might be a bit overpowered. Anyway, why are there so few people using a Eos to boost their gangs sensorstrength? You basically free up a midslot for the whole gang, 1 ECCM and a Eos = 50+ sensortstrength on most BS. And even most Pvp oriented T1 frigs get their strength up to BS size with 1 ECCM and the Eos.... If the Eos didnt have role before, it sure has one now with Falcons around every corner.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:12:00 - [2] Edited by: Merin Ryskin on 06/10/2008 08:12:45 Because people want a "counter" that involves passively sitting there with their blob of gank/tank close-range ships, not one that requires building a proper mixed fleet capable of countering hostile ewar.
Hugh Ruka Exploratio et Industria Morispatia	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:17:00 - [3] Originally by: TZeer As most people know the Falcon might be a bit overpowered. Anyway, why are there so few people using a Eos to boost their gangs sensorstrength? You basically free up a midslot for the whole gang, 1 ECCM and a Eos = 50+ sensortstrength on most BS. And even most Pvp oriented T1 frigs get their strength up to BS size with 1 ECCM and the Eos.... If the Eos didnt have role before, it sure has one now with Falcons around every corner. I don't know that ... I love when people start with that line after a few "nerf this" threads showed up ... --- SIG --- CSM: your support is needed !
sxndy Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:30:00 - [4] Originally by: TZeer As most people know the Falcon might be a bit overpowered. Anyway, why are there so few people using a Eos to boost their gangs sensorstrength? You basically free up a midslot for the whole gang, 1 ECCM and a Eos = 50+ sensortstrength on most BS. And even most Pvp oriented T1 frigs get their strength up to BS size with 1 ECCM and the Eos.... If the Eos didnt have role before, it sure has one now with Falcons around every corner. It only gives 38.8% with command ship at 5, hardly worth bothering about ..... this ain't gonna stop you getting jammed
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:33:00 - [5] Originally by: sxndy Originally by: TZeer As most people know the Falcon might be a bit overpowered. Anyway, why are there so few people using a Eos to boost their gangs sensorstrength? You basically free up a midslot for the whole gang, 1 ECCM and a Eos = 50+ sensortstrength on most BS. And even most Pvp oriented T1 frigs get their strength up to BS size with 1 ECCM and the Eos.... If the Eos didnt have role before, it sure has one now with Falcons around every corner. It only gives 38.8% with command ship at 5, hardly worth bothering about ..... this ain't gonna stop you getting jammed Um what? Yes, it will, it increases your chance of not getting jammed by 38%. Listen, I realise you don't believe that "facts" and "logic" are more important than your feelings, but they they are: +38% sensor strength will greatly improve your chances of not being jammed. What it won't do is make you invulnerable to ECM, any more thaan an EANM II makes you invulnerable to weapon damage.
sxndy Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:39:00 - [6] Nope, will not, even with over a 100% eccm boost sensorstrength you still get jammed regularily , tried it all many times. Best thing for eos to do is give a bonuses to your own ecm. and don't talk about my feelings, I'm rather touchy, :))
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:45:00 - [7] Originally by: sxndy It only gives 38.8% with command ship at 5, hardly worth bothering about ..... this ain't gonna stop you getting jammed Thank you, sxndy, for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. People like you are going to whine and cry about ECM until CCP gives you a counter that involves zero effort on your part. But since I'm in a friendly and helpful mood tonight, I will correct your painful stupidity: 40% sensor strength means 40% less chance of being jammed per jammer. This will probably not help you if the Falcon pilot really wants you jammed at all costs, just because the Falcon has so many jammers available to try again. But it means two things: 1) If the Falcon pilot is spreading his jammers around on your fleet (as you have to do with racials), you are much more likely to keep more of those ships unjammed. 2) If the Falcon pilot is focusing on you, that 40% is likely to soak up even more jammers, leaving fewer to jam the rest of your fleet. And then each of those requires even more jammers than usual to jam, and so on, until the Falcon runs out of ECM with fewer ships successfully jammed. You personally will not see any difference, but the rest of your fleet sure will. Now, understand the numbers please, before you post again in this thread.
sxndy Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.06 08:56:00 - [8] Edited by: sxndy on 06/10/2008 09:01:54 Originally by: Merin Ryskin Originally by: sxndy It only gives 38.8% with command ship at 5, hardly worth bothering about ..... this ain't gonna stop you getting jammed Thank you, sxndy, for demonstrating exactly what I was talking about. People like you are going to whine and cry about ECM until CCP gives you a counter that involves zero effort on your part. But since I'm in a friendly and helpful mood tonight, I will correct your painful stupidity: 40% sensor strength means 40% less chance of being jammed per jammer. This will probably not help you if the Falcon pilot really wants you jammed at all costs, just because the Falcon has so many jammers available to try again. But it means two things: 1) If the Falcon pilot is spreading his jammers around on your fleet (as you have to do with racials), you are much more likely to keep more of those ships unjammed. 2) If the Falcon pilot is focusing on you, that 40% is likely to soak up even more jammers, leaving fewer to jam the rest of your fleet. And then each of those requires even more jammers than usual to jam, and so on, until the Falcon runs out of ECM with fewer ships successfully jammed. You personally will not see any difference, but the rest of your fleet sure will. Now, understand the numbers please, before you post again in this thread. Thats very sad, for the record I love ecm, and I have counters that work against it. Its you that has the problem m8 :) Edit: I do understand ecm and eccm very well, I think you may need to rethink your ideas. 38.8% not 40. You want proof? read te first post NO-ONE and few FCs would want an EOS to give bonuses for eccm, there are better counters.
Merin Ryskin Peregrine Industries	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:03:00 - [9] Originally by: sxndy Thats very sad, for the record I love ecm, and I have counters that work against it. Its you that has the problem m8 :) How about actually making a counter-argument to my points, if you don't like them? Or maybe you could just troll a bit more. Quote: Edit: I do understand ecm and eccm very well, I think you may need to rethink your ideas. 38.8% not 40 Oh FFS, were you born this stupid or do you put special effort into trying? I think it should be pretty obvious for anyone who isn't a complete ****ing idiot that I just rounded 38.8% to 40%. But I suspect you know this, just like you know a 1.2% difference is not enough to change the point of my argument, so you are obviously just trolling. Have you ever considered suicide as a solution? You'd be doing a great and noble thing for the average intelligence of this forum.
sxndy Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:11:00 - [10] The one trolling is you m8, I added valid comments, you added hate and your opinion à which I happen to disagree with. You must be an awful disappointment to your FC, this saddens me. But back to the point EOS eccm bonus sucks and if you rely on it in a fleet you will all rightly die, and good riddance!
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:18:00 - [11] Just to put some numbers into this dicussion: My Falcon typically has 1 multispec and 1 of each racial. Let's generously assume that the multispec is in range (Mal is flying dangerously today!) and imagine the FC has told me "JAM THAT FCKN RAVEN!" Raven base sensor str: 22 My Grav II jamming strength: 13.5 My Multi II jamming strength: 9.1 My other racials grav jammming: 4.5 Chance of my jamming this one* ship: 88.4% chance to jam him With gang link bonus: sensor str 30.4 My chance of jamming falls to 76.1% - you have in fact doubled your chance of not being jammed. And that's a "worst case" scenario. It's far more likely that you'll be facing a single gravimetric II, in which case you go from a 36.6% chance to a 44.5% chance of not being jammed. Fit a T2 ECCM and run with an Eos, and your chance of evading a jam from my grav II is 77.5% - I would basically not bother.
Pr1ncess Alia Caldari Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:45:00 - [12] Edited by: Pr1ncess Alia on 06/10/2008 09:48:31 Originally by: Merin Ryskin since I'm in a friendly and helpful mood tonight.... Originally by: Merin Ryskin Oh FFS, were you born this stupid or do you put special effort into trying? I think it should be pretty obvious for anyone who isn't a complete **ing idiot Originally by:** Merin Ryskin Have you ever considered suicide as a solution? You'd be doing a great and noble thing for the average intelligence of this forum. boy, you sure let your logical argument speak for itself with no need for any personal attacks! Originally by: Merin Ryskin you are obviously just trolling. pwnd your posting is terrible.
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:47:00 - [13] Originally by: sxndy Nope, will not, even with over a 100% eccm boost sensorstrength you still get jammed regularily , tried it all many times. Best thing for eos to do is give a bonuses to your own ecm. and don't talk about my feelings, I'm rather touchy, :)) Yes you'll still get jammed regularly, but less frequently. You want invulnerability, but you're only getting resistence. Too bad.
Vaal Erit Science and Trade Institute	Posted - 2008.10.06 09:56:00 - [14] People never trained the Eos for it to be a support platform, people trained for the Eos because it was overpowered at that time. Fleet command ships were never really that popular. You don't see many Eos's because they aren't useful, but because it takes a very long time to train for them + mindlink. Most of the time a gang is better off with another BS or a falcon of their own. -- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
Furb Killer Gallente The Scope	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:02:00 - [15] Quote: 40% sensor strength means 40% less chance of being jammed per jammer WTS: math knowledge. You can use it... EOS is underrated imo, but your math still sucks. According to you one ECCM would make you invunerable to falcons (+100% sensor strength = 100% less chance to be jammed?).
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:07:00 - [16] Originally by: Vaal Erit People never trained the Eos for it to be a support platform, people trained for the Eos because it was overpowered at that time. Fleet command ships were never really that popular. You don't see many Eos's because they aren't useful, but because it takes a very long time to train for them + mindlink. Most of the time a gang is better off with another BS or a falcon of their own. The utility of gang bonuses increases with the size of the gang. They're also better for defending than for attacking, since you can park a CS running 5-8 mods in a POS (this makes defending gangs incredibly awesome btw)
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:19:00 - [17] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 40% sensor strength means 40% less chance of being jammed per jammer. You're either trolling to further your agenda or you're being clueless. It doesn't do such a thing Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:25:00 - [18] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. Range bonus is pretty nice, but the strength bonus isn't really worth it, because most ECM ships have 3 distort amps fitted anyway. I'd rather the Eos had an unbonused shield resist ganglink tbh. The Eos does more for TD and damp ships.
SoftRevolution	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:42:00 - [19] Raising sensor strength does make a difference. Don't underestimate the difference between an ECM boat easily jamming you with most of the rack still spare and having a hard time possibly jamming you with almost everything so they've got nothing on the rest of your gang. I've run into this phenomena with an EOS (I don't think I hit a single cycle with the strong racial) and it was most perturbing.
Galliana Foresta Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2008.10.06 10:45:00 - [20] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. Originally by: Merin Ryskin 40% sensor strength means 40% less chance of being jammed per jammer. You're either trolling to further your agenda or you're being clueless. It doesn't do such a thing Pwnt. However, I do agree with Merin to a degree. The Eos, in a properly organised gang, makes the Falcon "problem" far less of a problem and more of a nuisance. Bottom line is, the Falcon is not overpowered and the Eos isn't shit. This coming from a pre and post-nerf Eos pilot, and regular Falcon target. HIRING\|KB\|PRESS
TZeer Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:28:00 - [21] Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. With 2 gangs having 1 Eos each, it would actually be harder for the ECM to work. So the group getting jammed actually have a lesser chance of getting jammed.
efjkwrflrheilglrnr	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:40:00 - [22] wot a pile of rubbish the eos sux because it was nurfed and dont do wtfbbq dps anymore it needs 125m3 bandwith and 8 turrets using it whit the way yall describe is stupid as gang links are useless.
Galliana Foresta Gallente Fleeting Moments of Insanity	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:43:00 - [23] Originally by: efjkwrflrheilglrnr wot a pile of rubbish the eos sux because it was nurfed and dont do wtfbbq dps anymore it needs 125m3 bandwith and 8 turrets using it whit the way yall describe is stupid as gang links are useless. Did you create an alt just then for the sole purpose of being a troll? HIRING\|KB\|PRESS
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:50:00 - [24] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 11:52:33 Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 11:51:30 Originally by: TZeer Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. With 2 gangs having 1 Eos each, it would actually be harder for the ECM to work. So the group getting jammed actually have a lesser chance of getting jammed. True, but marginally so. It does give ECM ships extra range on top, however, which means you can drop at least one range rig to (mostly) compensate for the difference between sensor integrity link mod and the electronic superiority link mod, and jam with full efficency from 249.99km out. It's a fortunate thing we have the 250km cap. Edit: of course the Eos isn't shit. Only clueless people who use their Fleet Command for ganking claim that the nerf killed it. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Malcanis RuffRyders Axiom Empire	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:53:00 - [25] Originally by: Cpt Branko Originally by: TZeer Originally by: Cpt Branko Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 10:22:07 Best use for a Eos is for supporting said Falcons. It gives much more to actual ECM then to sensor str. 15.1 jammers with 249.99km optimal? Yes, please. With 2 gangs having 1 Eos each, it would actually be harder for the ECM to work. So the group getting jammed actually have a lesser chance of getting jammed. True, but marginally so. It does give ECM ships extra range on top, however, which means you can drop at least one range rig to (mostly) compensate for the difference between sensor integrity link mod and the electronic superiority link mod, and jam with full efficency from edges of lockrange. On the other hand, it gives +15% targetting range to all those ships which are supposed to be countering the falcon too. Not a negligible consideration. The Arazu especially will benefit.
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.06 11:55:00 - [26] Edited by: Cpt Branko on 06/10/2008 11:56:13 Originally by: Malcanis On the other hand, it gives +15% targetting range to all those ships which are supposed to be countering the falcon too. Not a negligible consideration. The Arazu especially will benefit. Targetting range? Not what the Eos does. Yes, it gives you (by virtue of gang bonuses, ofc, as you've got to have Information Warfare V) 10% targetting range, but that's got nothing to do with its warfare links. The warfare link gives you optimal to all EW. This, of course, benefits EW which is optimal based (+range bonuses) much more then EW which has lots of falloff, much in the same way locus rigs benefit lasers more then autocannons Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.06 12:02:00 - [27] ECCM doesnt improve EFT dps, thats why
Sokratesz Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2008.10.06 12:02:00 - [28] ECCM doesn't improve EFT dps, that's why
Cpt Branko Surge.	Posted - 2008.10.06 12:09:00 - [29] Originally by: Sokratesz ECCM doesnt improve EFT dps, thats why I fit ECCM on 90% of my ships, and I can say you're either flying caps only or just pulling the 'omg, EFT warrior' card without any real arguments. Fact: 1 ECCM means you're out of 50% of the fight in a average BS vs a single racial jammer. Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
sxndy Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.06 12:23:00 - [30] Edited by: sxndy on 06/10/2008 12:25:21 Originally by: Malcanis On the other hand, it gives +15% targetting range to all those ships which are supposed to be countering the falcon too. Not a negligible consideration. The Arazu especially will benefit. Targetting range? Not what the Eos does. Yes, it gives you (by virtue of gang bonuses, ofc, as you've got to have Information Warfare V) 10% targetting range, but that's got nothing to do with its warfare links. The warfare link gives you optimal to all EW. This, of course, benefits EW which is optimal based (+range bonuses) much more then EW which has lots of falloff, much in the same way locus rigs benefit lasers more then autocannons The implant adds an extra 5% to the information warefare bonus 10% + 5%

Pages: [1] 2 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

COPYRIGHT NOTICE
EVE Online, the EVE logo, EVE and all associated logos and designs are the intellectual property of CCP hf. All artwork, screenshots, characters, vehicles, storylines, world facts or other recognizable features of the intellectual property relating to these trademarks are likewise the intellectual property of CCP hf. EVE Online and the EVE logo are the registered trademarks of CCP hf. All rights are reserved worldwide. All other trademarks are the property of their respective owners. CCP hf. has granted permission to EVE-Search.com to use EVE Online and all associated logos and designs for promotional and information purposes on its website but does not endorse, and is not in any way affiliated with, EVE-Search.com. CCP is in no way responsible for the content on or functioning of this website, nor can it be liable for any damage arising from the use of this website.