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Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
240
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:29:00 -
[1] - Quote
Eh, whats the point of arguing.
CCP GMs want to coddle carebears - even if they have to rewrite their own rules to do it.
I developed the 'Tornado Boomerang' technique shortly after the 'nado was released and I knew it was good - but challenging to do properly and NOT broken. The technique, done right, effectively reversed the effects of the simultaneous 'insurance nerf' that I was seeking to overcome. Used it to my benefit for 3 solid months, killing 635 Exhumers and 1 Orca, solo. Only shared the technique with a few in the ganking community. But I wanted it to see wider use.....
(Disclaimer: Its quite possible that others figured it out independently, but I saw no evidence of that anywhere.)
So I eventually wrote my (immediately locked) primer as a 'test case'. After all, it was merely min-maxing the Tornado into effectiveness by maximizing gank and agility - at the expense of everything else. Wanted to see how CCP would respond to 'innovation' in ganking. They like innovation right? WRONG.
If you discover a good, efficient ganking tactic - you keep it to yourself and tell nobody. Even if it violates no rules, CCP will rewrite the rules based on the 'end result' - not the 'means'. IE: If innovation results in carebears crying, nerfs and rule changes will be incoming. Got it loud and clear, CCP. Thats the last trick I'll openly share with the GMs.
So, where does that leave me?
Tactical Situation:
You are still ALLOWED to warp away - but you are not allowed to shoot more targets after warping. No way around it - CCP's arbitrary rule change has severely limited the Tornado's ganking utility, especially for efficiently killing widely spaced mining bots in the belts. Really, not much reason to use it over, say, a Catalyst or a Talos now.
But you still have two advantages:
-You are allowed to get your Tornado off-grid to die in a 'safe place'. The Tornado 'drive-by' shooting. This is important if you are dealing with 'white knights' - looking to pod you and/or loot your wreck.
-Using the 'fitting service' on your Orca while GCC is STILL LEGAL. In my experience, this will allow you plenty of time to 'prep your guns' for unfitting. You can generally save 90-95% of all the mods on a Tornado this way, and it drives the cost of ganking down to the hull price. Second post will contain a detailed primer.
Strategic Goal:
1. Carebears whined and CCP listened. Why? Because they outnumber us. This needs to be rectified. 2. Ganking miners with Tornados is no a longer profitable endeavor, but can only be done at a loss. 3. Ganking at a loss, I can not match the limitless resources of large botting/RMT operations, so why even try?
Thus: I plan to do my utmost to 'encourage' young mining carebears to quit the game via selective, predatory ganking. Effective immediately, all operations, reports, and petitions against mining botters will cease. No more 'padding' the KB with my new 'artificial friends'. In my view, mining bots are actually beneficial: They flood the market with minerals/ice and significantly depress 'real miner' earnings.
Resources will now be focused exclusively on hunting 'real' miners. I've found that younger miners are more likely to become discouraged after multiple Exhumer losses and will simply cancel their subscription. This will help achieve the goal of reducing carebear influence over EVE - simply by reducing their numbers.
|

Herr Wilkus
Aggressive Salvage Services LLC Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
240
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
(reserved for primer) |

Killer Gandry
V I R I I Ineluctable.
192
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:36:00 -
[3] - Quote
Do you also reclamate your own tears?
|

Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
4
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:37:00 -
[4] - Quote
I don't want to be "that guy" But realistically concord should destroy the orca as well for aiding and abetting a criminal. 600 mining barges is a ludicrous amount, if even 100 people destroyed 600 barges a person the impact would be severe. 60,000 barges gone. Like it or not, care-bears build 80% of the things used in eve. Ganking should be allowed but 600 ganks in 3 months by one person is nuts. Every gank should have meaning. If you don't want to lose your ship, gank in low-sec.
I'm all for allowing ganks, but it should carry a penalty to match being a public menace. |

Aiifa
Clann Fian Narwhals Ate My Duck
36
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:38:00 -
[5] - Quote
I ******* love this game :popcorn: |

Eternum Praetorian
JSR1 AND GOLDEN GUARDIAN PRODUCTIONS SpaceMonkey's Alliance
522
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
You're kind of pathetic TBFH.
|

Thebriwan
LUX Uls Xystus
26
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:44:00 -
[7] - Quote
There was no rule changed.
It was made totally crystal clear years ago that you must die after you ganked someone in high sec.
You found a hole in the mechanic and exploited it. And then you talked about it and then it was done so much that CCP has to do something against.
Seen that so many times... |

Sasha Azala
Blood and Decay
185
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:44:00 -
[8] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Thus: I plan to do my utmost to 'encourage' young mining carebears to quit the game via selective, predatory ganking. Effective immediately, all operations, reports, and petitions against mining botters will cease. No more 'padding' the KB with my new 'artificial friends'. In my view, mining bots are actually beneficial: They flood the market with minerals/ice and significantly depress 'real miner' earnings.
Resources will now be focused exclusively on hunting 'real' miners. I've found that younger miners are more likely to become discouraged after multiple Exhumer losses and will simply cancel their subscription. This will help achieve the goal of reducing carebear influence over EVE - simply by reducing their numbers.
You're an idiot, so you want to turn your griefing, which is not actually griefing for the most part into cyber bullying.  |

Doc Fury
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
647
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:45:00 -
[9] - Quote
I would not call it coddling carebears exactly, but simply closing a loophole.
Capsulers were never intended to be able to evade the wrath of Concord physically or financially. The addition of the Orca simply created some unintended circumstances CCP is getting around to addressing.
The accumulated filth of all their sex and murder will foam up about their waists and all the ho's and politicians will look up and shout 'Save us!' and I'll look down, and whisper 'no.' |

Nedes Betternaem
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
87
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:46:00 -
[10] - Quote
Your not as clever as you think OP, many people realized that this was possible with smaller ships before T3 BCs. However everyone with half a brain also realized that this was avoiding CONCORD and liable to get you banned, hence why no one did it. So if your previous victims decide to petition your loss, you will probably get a ban. Enjoy. |
|

flakeys
Arkham Innovations Paper Tiger Coalition
227
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:46:00 -
[11] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote: -Using the 'fitting service' on your Orca while GCC is STILL LEGAL. In my experience, this will allow you plenty of time to 'prep your guns' for unfitting. You can generally save 90-95% of all the mods on a Tornado this way, and it drives the cost of ganking down to the hull price. Second post will contain a detailed primer.
Strategic Goal:
Either your trying CCP to make a change to that too for your own reasons or you really have not learned from what you stateed above.Basically if they change the ''fitting service'' legallity when having a GCC now you know it's your own fault so no need for a new thread ok? |

Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
434
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:46:00 -
[12] - Quote
so wait let me get this straight you exploited GM ruled it as exploit you mad
it was obviously going to be an exploit. its not catering to anyone, you just wanted to pad your killboard with easy kills and found a way to do it by making 1 tornado gank 3+ exhumers
the TL;DR is, your crying like a pansy because suicide ganking isn't profitable if its against targets with low value loot again.
suicide ganking will always work if you kill people with expensive cargo, as it should be, but the risk vs reward is gone with your method. you will almost always get your isk back, and with dumping your fitting in a orca, you save most your worth anyways. after the loot from the kills you probably profit easily. your only hit is to sec status, and we all know that's more inconvenient then a deterrent |

THE L0CK
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:49:00 -
[13] - Quote
Remember: Big Brother is watching you Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Katja Faith
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:50:00 -
[14] - Quote
Eternum Praetorian wrote:You're kind of pathetic TBFH.
This. |

Ashina Sito
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:53:00 -
[15] - Quote
I don't have any details (yet) but I would assume with what you have posted so far is that your warping in, blowing up a ship, warping out to somewhere else where you can blow up another ship before CONCORD spawns to take you out. Repeat as many times as you can till CONCORD gets you.
That would qualify as evading CONCORD. You blow up a ship in high sec, you lose your ship. Warping out to attack another ship, avoiding CONCORD response, would be a violation of the rules that CCP have.
You will probably whine more since it looks like it is possible that in the future CCP is going to flag your Orca with a GCC when you go there to swap out modules.
High sec ganking is not suppose to be easy. Get over it.
THB, stop being a pansy and gank the gankers. Battle Hulks are where it's at.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dxawXgeosU |

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:54:00 -
[16] - Quote
Why am I not surprised Herr Wilkus is behind this.
He's pretty much A** of the Century. A real Hole.
Figures.
The lengths the desperate and Lonely will go to. 
|

THE L0CK
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:57:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ashina Sito wrote:I don't have any details (yet) but I would assume with what you have posted so far is that your warping in, blowing up a ship, warping out to somewhere else where you can blow up another ship before CONCORD spawns to take you out. Repeat as many times as you can till CONCORD gets you. That would qualify as evading CONCORD. You blow up a ship in high sec, you lose your ship. Warping out to attack another ship, avoiding CONCORD response, would be a violation of the rules that CCP have. You will probably whine more since it looks like it is possible that in the future CCP is going to flag your Orca with a GCC when you go there to swap out modules. High sec ganking is not suppose to be easy. Get over it. THB, stop being a pansy and gank the gankers. Battle Hulks are where it's at. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2dxawXgeosU
The basis of his plan was that the cane can warp I believe in 3.4 second while it takes 7-10 seconds for Concorde to show up. So in a belt with several miners he can effectively warp in and start warping in between them getting 1-2 volleys in before warping off again, effectively evading Concorde for as long as he can.
Warp long enough and I'm sure your aggression will go away. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Stabs McShiv
MINUS4
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:59:00 -
[18] - Quote
This game is becoming more pathetic every quarter. The ship that ganks still dies who cares how many ships it kills before it dies? ccp should remove all hisec ore and ice if this is the direction they are going remove all meta 0-1 and mineral based rat drops as well! in the mean time just isboxer trial t1 gank cats via a proxy service it will work for a low cost gank fix. |

Zleon Leigh
110
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 20:59:00 -
[19] - Quote
So now CCP has to go through your 635 kills and reimburse all those kills - as soon as they petition of course.... thanks for clogging up the petition system even further.
And IB4L? Incarna - Newest business example of mismanaged capital.
CCP - Continuing to gank independent PI producers every day |

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:02:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ashina Sito wrote:
High sec ganking is not suppose to be easy. Get over it.
THB, stop being a pansy and gank the gankers. Battle Hulks are where it's at.
Just search his forum posts. HILARIOUS whining. |
|

Katarina Reid
Deep Core Mining Inc. Caldari State
155
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:02:00 -
[21] - Quote
If u focus on retrievers u get them before they make any real isk. They cost alot less to gank and the player has invested less time in eve so more likely to quit. |

Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc Thundering Herd
88
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:03:00 -
[22] - Quote
Not sure if I understand the OP correctly.
He discovers (or develops) a maneuver that will get around the stated rules about ganking and getting CONCORDED thereafter. A pretty slick maneuver I will admit but, I was under the impression that a player who discovered a game-trick designed to get around intended game mechanics, they are to report this to CCP so it can be fixed.
But instead, he uses it repeatedly to gank a few hundred Exhumers in record time while avoiding CONCORD.
Now he began a thread to elicit sympathy and complain that CCP is bad and wrong?
What part did I miss here?
Nothing clever at this time. |

Gnaw LF
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:03:00 -
[23] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote:Eh, whats the point of arguing.
CCP GMs want to coddle carebears - even if they have to rewrite their own rules to do it.
I developed the 'Tornado Boomerang' technique shortly after the 'nado was released and I knew it was good - but challenging to do properly and NOT broken. The technique, done right, effectively reversed the effects of the simultaneous 'insurance nerf' that I was seeking to overcome. Used it to my benefit for 3 solid months, killing 635 Exhumers and 1 Orca, solo. Only shared the technique with a few in the ganking community. But I wanted it to see wider use.....
(Disclaimer: Its quite possible that others figured it out independently, but I saw no evidence of that anywhere.)
So I eventually wrote my (immediately locked) primer as a 'test case'. After all, it was merely min-maxing the Tornado into effectiveness by maximizing gank and agility - at the expense of everything else. Wanted to see how CCP would respond to 'innovation' in ganking. They like innovation right? WRONG.
If you discover a good, efficient ganking tactic - you keep it to yourself and tell nobody. Even if it violates no rules, CCP will rewrite the rules based on the 'end result' - not the 'means'. IE: If innovation results in carebears crying, nerfs and rule changes will be incoming. Got it loud and clear, CCP. Thats the last trick I'll openly share with the GMs.
So, where does that leave me?
Tactical Situation:
You are still ALLOWED to warp away - but you are not allowed to shoot more targets after warping. No way around it - CCP's arbitrary rule change has severely limited the Tornado's ganking utility, especially for efficiently killing widely spaced mining bots in the belts. Really, not much reason to use it over, say, a Catalyst or a Talos now.
But you still have two advantages:
-You are allowed to get your Tornado off-grid to die in a 'safe place'. The Tornado 'drive-by' shooting. This is important if you are dealing with 'white knights' - looking to pod you and/or loot your wreck.
-Using the 'fitting service' on your Orca while GCC is STILL LEGAL. In my experience, this will allow you plenty of time to 'prep your guns' for unfitting. You can generally save 90-95% of all the mods on a Tornado this way, and it drives the cost of ganking down to the hull price. Second post will contain a detailed primer.
Strategic Goal:
1. Carebears whined and CCP listened. Why? Because they outnumber us. This needs to be rectified. 2. Ganking miners with Tornados is no a longer profitable endeavor, but can only be done at a loss. 3. Ganking at a loss, I can not match the limitless resources of large botting/RMT operations, so why even try?
Thus: I plan to do my utmost to 'encourage' young mining carebears to quit the game via selective, predatory ganking. Effective immediately, all operations, reports, and petitions against mining botters will cease. No more 'padding' the KB with my new 'artificial friends'. In my view, mining bots are actually beneficial: They flood the market with minerals/ice and significantly depress 'real miner' earnings.
Resources will now be focused exclusively on hunting 'real' miners. I've found that younger miners are more likely to become discouraged after multiple Exhumer losses and will simply cancel their subscription. This will help achieve the goal of reducing carebear influence over EVE - simply by reducing their numbers.
I give you props for finding and testing this technique, but I also think you are being dishonest in thinking that CCP can't or won't change rules based on the unexpected results / actions of the player base. Of course they will come and arbitrary change their own laws / rules because you have done something unprecedented and unexpected with the game mechanics. In fact that the MMO developer / publisher is essentially an ARBITRATOR between players when it comes to player versus player engagements, they are the final word on how players will interact with other players. Instead of crying about it on the forum you should man up, take the credit for creative thinking and go on your way.
Also, you should receive at least 7 day ban for not reporting this "exploit" to CCP. The ethically accepted process for disclosing an exploit is as follows: Discovery > Disclosure to Developer > Grace Period > Disclosure to Community. As it stands now you admitted to using this mechanic for 3 months without notifying CCP of the possible repercussions, you also noted that in the future you will avoid disclosing any game breaking elements to the developer. |

Xen Solarus
Inner 5phere
89
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[24] - Quote
Herr Wilkus wrote: Stuff about how he can only kill defenceless targets.
Omg, nice way to ruin the growth of eve. Don't you like this game? Don't you like it enough to do everything you can to make it grow and prosper? Clearly not! You Want people to quit playing!! You're more interested in yourself, your easy kills, and your tear collecting. Way to go!
The fact your more than willing, even eager, to damage the potential for new players, as well as force PvP onto players that don't want or enjoy that side of eve, quite frankly sickens me.
On a side-note, thanks for making ganking become a more serious consideration. I look forward to increased prevention against cowardly gankers!
You might have to...... i can't believe i'm saying this...... actually shoot people that shoot back!
OH MY GOD!!!!!!
|

Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises Purpose Built
628
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[25] - Quote
If CCP had thought of this, they would have declared it an exploit and fixed it before we discovered it.
They just can't think of every possible way someone will play the system.
And now you claim to want to force miners out of the game. Which states intent of a bannable offense. |

THE L0CK
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
126
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[26] - Quote
Zleon Leigh wrote:
And IB4L?
No, I've clearly have posted twice now. Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |

Gnaw LF
30
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:06:00 -
[27] - Quote
Killer Gandry wrote:Do you also reclamate your own tears?
I think they outsourced that to 3rd parties like us. |

Fly byNighter
Republic Military School Minmatar Republic
8
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:13:00 -
[28] - Quote
CRY ME A RIVER
Try to fight in a real fight !!!!
without carebears the prices will go up across all of EVE, but i really don't mind a few less miniers out there, more ore for me!!!!!! |

Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
244
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:15:00 -
[29] - Quote
Amazing whining.
Nedes Betternaem wrote:Your not as clever as you think OP, many people realized that this was possible with smaller ships before T3 BCs. However everyone with half a brain also realized that this was avoiding CONCORD and liable to get you banned, hence why no one did it. So if your previous victims decide to petition their loss, you will probably get a ban. Enjoy.
Indeed. The ability to do this has obvious for years. In fact, I made a post about it a couple of years ago.
It was obvious even then that it was an exploit. |

Quartzlight Evenstar Icefluxor
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
1
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:16:00 -
[30] - Quote
Here is the idiotic 8 y.o.-like mail he sends after ganking you (I did not respond. Also the last time I got whacked while mining):
hahaha From: Herr Wilkus Sent: 2011.01.31 00:21 To: Krixtal Icefluxor,
u got ganked hard. you suck a**. I might have to pay you additional visits in the future cause that was fun. |
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