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Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
   |
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
A few recent changes to game play mechanics have been a bit detrimental to the innovation-rewarding nature of the game. However, they have also been fair. The "boomerang method" might have been clever, but it created a sort of imbalance that caused more damage to the game's integrity than the damage caused by making the game slightly less open-ended. Fine, we get that.
What we don't get is why some legitimate game play mechanics are limited in the first place. Two such mechanics are bombs launched from bomb launchers, and interdiction bubbles, the use of which is impossible in empire space. Nothing from a game play or RP perspective dictates that this should not be a possibility; the only limiting factors are the rules set by CCP.
There must be consequences for every action, and therefore I see no reason why the modules themselves should be treated any differently than combat boosters; their presence can and should be illegal in high-sec and result in attack by faction police and customs agent ships. Additional safety measures, such as the gate/station smartbomb "at 0" protections, can apply to their usage. However, the potential to use them in high-sec and low-sec should be unrestricted, in the same way that the potential capability of a -10 sec-rated pilot to undock from a high-sec station and get kills is unrestricted.
Restricting these game play elements has always been a mistake on CCP's part, but at no point in time did I feel stronger about the issue than I do now. Allowing one weapon, but not another, does not make sense. This isn't a case of capital ships in high-sec, which according to lore are essentially too big to use jump gates. Not allowing bombs or interdiction bubbles in empire space, with proper consequences, makes about as much sense as outlawing the use of 1400mm artillery or ECM bursts and smartbombs. Game balancing should be all about fairness, and not convenience. Allowing bombs and bubbles to be used in empire space would be fair. Otherwise, CCP should look into restricting the use of a plethora of other modules and game play mechanics that are not in line with the sensibilities of some of EVE's players. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
206
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:02:00 -
[2] - Quote
What would you do with bubbles in high sec besides **** peopl....never mind. |
THE L0CK
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
126
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
The bombs I never got, but why would Concorde let you place up a suspect creating bubble?
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
435
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[4] - Quote
i think bombs should be allowed in lowsec, but that's it. bubbles stay in null, no bombs in highsec. |
Katja Faith
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[5] - Quote
Oooh, and I want to be able to bring my main's caps into high to harass small tower holders!!! Can I? Please? Huh, please? |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:04:00 -
[6] - Quote
The point I'm trying to make is that CONCORD wouldn't tolerate the use of bombs and bubbles in high-sec. However, they should still be allowed to be used. You will lose your ship if you use these things.
Katja Faith wrote:Oooh, and I want to be able to bring my main's caps into high to harass small tower holders!!! Can I? Please? Huh, please?
You can't, because caps are too big to use star gates, and high-sec systems are essentially cyno-jammed by NPCs. |
Masamune Dekoro
School of Applied Knowledge
Caldari State
80
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:07:00 -
[7] - Quote
This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough? |
PotatoOverdose
Royal Black Watch Highlanders
Flatline.
61
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:08:00 -
[8] - Quote
Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead. |
Kattshiro
Deep Core Mining Inc.
Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:09:00 -
[9] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough?
Makes a fair point if we want to be ruthless and less intervention after a certain SP amount NPC should shoot your pod.... I mean if you are an enemy of the state or a mass murdering criminal/pirate why let you live? |
Lady Aja
35
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:09:00 -
[10] - Quote
No bad idea...
opens more can of worms than closing one. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:10:00 -
[11] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough?
It will be fair if you can provide an argument that supports such a change from a game play perspective. Your proposal has nothing to do with the one I made, and therefore can't be a tradeoff for it. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Thundering Herd
92
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:10:00 -
[12] - Quote
Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no.
Nothing clever at this time. |
Baby ChuChu
Ice Cream Asylum
61
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:11:00 -
[13] - Quote
Only good things can come of this.
And by good things i mean this is a horrible idea.
Captain of the Battlestar Carebear |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
315
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
PotatoOverdose wrote:Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead.
Absolutely.
Nick Bison wrote:Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no.
Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive. |
THE L0CK
Republic Military School
Minmatar Republic
128
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:13:00 -
[15] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:The point I'm trying to make is that CONCORD wouldn't tolerate the use of bombs and bubbles in high-sec. However, they should still be allowed to be used. You will lose your ship if you use these things. Katja Faith wrote:Oooh, and I want to be able to bring my main's caps into high to harass small tower holders!!! Can I? Please? Huh, please? You can't, because caps are too big to use star gates, and high-sec systems are essentially cyno-jammed by NPCs.
If high is cyno-jam by the npc's then isn't it pretty obvious that its bubble jammed as well?
Do you smell what the Lock's cooking? |
Herping yourDerp
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
437
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:13:00 -
[16] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Masamune Dekoro wrote:This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough? It will be fair if you can provide an argument that supports such a change from a game play perspective. Your proposal has nothing to do with the one I made, and therefore can't be a tradeoff for it.
uh -10 player on jita undock
uses orca to get bomber fires bomb
again, and again
same with bubbles
bubble somewhere, ok you died but i'm still stuck in a bubble. |
stoicfaux
897
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:15:00 -
[17] - Quote
Speaking of unnecessarily unrestricted aspects of high-sec, how about letting the "citizens" of a particular system decide how to implement security instead of relying on CCP's overly-simplistic retro-active aggression mechanics?
The traders, industrialists, miners, etc., should be able to lobby (aka pay isk for) the faction/corporation owning the system/station to add more sentry guns, faction police, and to control/influence when and at whom those gun fire at. Meaning, if the Jita 4-4 community can vote via the "Jita 4-4 Homeowner's Association" to buy a hundred extra sentry guns and to implement a "one strike and you're out" policy where the guns to preemptively fire at anyone (capsules included) who has ever broken the rules (i.e. initiated a gank on the station grid within the past year or who has a less than 4.99 security status,) then I think most people would be open to removing the artificial limits imposed on high-sec.
If you want more freedom of high-sec combat, then the local citizens should be given more freedom to enforce the law.
Or, let's just turn everything into 0.0, get rid of the NPC factions, and give corps and alliances the in-game tools to run governments (i.e. taxes, voting, publishing policy, paying for faction police, etc..)
Dammit, if CCP hadn't nerfed the Comet's blinking light, I could now be flying around in Jita in my "Whaaaaaambulance!"
Goon Tears: -á25% Alcohol by Volume |
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal
Terran Commonwealth
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:15:00 -
[18] - Quote
So one moron can holdup traffic just for fun? blow up everyone at a station in jita in one fell swoop? |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:16:00 -
[19] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Nick Bison wrote:Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no. Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive.
But Un-ganged Neutrals aren't affected and are free to scan. |
Sentinel Smith
Center for Advanced Studies
Gallente Federation
10
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:17:00 -
[20] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough?
I'm kinda for it all..
Bubbles.. no.. Just not.
But bombs, they should be able to be used in the same way Smartbombs are.. Too close to a station it just won't detonate because of "Interference" or some such nonsense..
And as for podding by Concord.. I think there should be a sec status where you just CAN'T activate the gate, and likewise, your medclone won't allow you to select a highsec station, and JC's will not be available in highsec..
-5 Can't fly ships in highsec..
-6 Can't Enter highsec.
I'd even make removal forceful.. you are given X min to leave highsec after committing a crime or you get "sent" to the nearest non-highsec system.
|
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
316
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:18:00 -
[21] - Quote
THE L0CK wrote:If high is cyno-jam by the npc's then isn't it pretty obvious that its bubble jammed as well?
I'm not sure how you can jam a bubble, but even if it's made possible from a RP perspective, "jamming" doesn't stop a big ol' boom-boom from exploding.
Herping yourDerp wrote:uh -10 player on jita undock
uses orca to get bomber fires bomb
again, and again
same with bubbles
bubble somewhere, ok you died but i'm still stuck in a bubble.
No different from the -10 player being able to fire a 1400mm volley.
Micheal Dietrich wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive. But Un-ganged Neutrals aren't affected and are free to scan.
And the person who bubbled just lost a 50-million-ISK ship. |
Killer Gandry
V I R I I
Ineluctable.
192
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:21:00 -
[22] - Quote
I want an I-Win button in my ship.
|
Bootleg Jack
Potters Field
41
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Posted - 2012.03.30 21:22:00 -
[23] - Quote
Herping yourDerp wrote:i think bombs should be allowed in lowsec, but that's it. bubbles stay in null, no bombs in highsec.
This |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:28:00 -
[24] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Micheal Dietrich wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive. But Un-ganged Neutrals aren't affected and are free to scan. And the person who bubbled just lost a 50-million-ISK ship.
That's all? I buy 60 mil BC's like it's a firesale. And with the potential billions that youll be stopping short of the gate I would have to say the trade off is totally worth it, especially when your -10 jumps into his bomb launched bomber.
didn't take too long to put 2 and 2 together on that one. |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Thundering Herd
97
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:PotatoOverdose wrote:Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead. Absolutely. Nick Bison wrote:Uhhh really ... so every HiSec gate can be bubbled so you can scan every ship coming thru ?
Big fat no. Bubbling would result in a CONCORD response if any neutral ship touches the bubble. Interdictors are expensive.
Dictors and Hictors are expensive, anchorable bubbles are not.
Just not sure the whole purpose of allowing bubbles in HS.
As you stated, CONCORD should just be popping them (or the ship) the first time a neut hits one
Nothing clever at this time. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
316
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:32:00 -
[26] - Quote
You don't need bubbles to scan ships, and you don't need bubbles to tackle ships at gates.
To everyone else: keep in mind that I'm all for keeping the current safety mechanisms for AoE weapons for bombs. You wouldn't be able to bomb too close to a gate or station due to the "at 0" element. However, people off-range or in belts/deadspace should be fair game.
Why should smartbombs and ECM bursts be allowed, but not bombs? |
Nick Bison
Bison Industrial Inc
Thundering Herd
98
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:42:00 -
[27] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:You don't need bubbles to scan ships, and you don't need bubbles to tackle ships at gates. To everyone else: keep in mind that I'm all for keeping the current safety mechanisms for AoE weapons for bombs. You wouldn't be able to bomb too close to a gate or station due to the "at 0" element. However, people off-range or in belts/deadspace should be fair game. Why should smartbombs and ECM bursts be allowed, but not bombs? Nick Bison wrote:Destiny Corrupted wrote:[quote=PotatoOverdose]Not being able to launch a bomb in hisec never made any sense. There's a red button on my dashboard. Why can't I mash buttan? Maybe have launching a bomb cause instant GCC instead. Absolutely. [quote=Nick Bison]Dictors and Hictors are expensive, anchorable bubbles are not. Just not sure the whole purpose of allowing bubbles in HS. As you stated, CONCORD should just be popping them (or the ship) the first time a neut hits one As is, you can't anchor things in .8+ anyway. They can simply extend current rules to .5 and above. And just because something is inefficient, shouldn't mean that it's arbitrarily disallowed.
It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.
Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate ....
Nothing clever at this time. |
Destiny Corrupted
Deadly Viper Kitten Mitten Sewing Company
316
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:45:00 -
[28] - Quote
Nick Bison wrote:It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.
Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate ....
My thread's request deals specifically with bomb launchers and interdictor/heavy interdictor bubbles.
If I have to address the anchored bubbles issue, then I simply suggest that the same anchoring rules apply to all areas of high-sec space. Either disallow anchoring completely, or allow it completely. If it's the latter, then CONCORD should treat anchored bubbles in the same manner that it treats ship bubbles; pop the perp if any neutral player ship touches the bubble, and the bubble itself. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
485
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:48:00 -
[29] - Quote
Masamune Dekoro wrote:This is fine, as long as -10.0 sec players are ganked and podded by Concord upon entering highsec. Fair enough?
They are ganked by concord. Not podded though, but you are free to do that yourself if you like, as is anyone else in teh game. You do know you can kill flashy reds anywhere without penalty right? Or is that you just dont want to take teh risk yourself?
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Micheal Dietrich
Standards and Practices
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.30 21:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
Destiny Corrupted wrote:Nick Bison wrote:It's not inefficient, it's a matter of smart-bombs and ECM burst are mounted on your ship and therefore, you accept the risk of CONCORD if you hit a neut or something, once a bubble is anchored, does CONCORD just kill the bubble and let the person who anchored go about their business.
Seems to be a "no risk" method of a ganker getting a ship who is warping-to-zero to stop may KM from a gate .... My thread's request deals specifically with bomb launchers and interdictor/heavy interdictor bubbles. If I have to address the anchored bubbles issue, then I simply suggest that the same anchoring rules apply to all areas of high-sec space. Either disallow anchoring completely, or allow it completely. If it's the latter, then CONCORD should treat anchored bubbles in the same manner that it treats ship bubbles; pop the perp if any neutral player ship touches the bubble, and the bubble itself.
Stations, additional pos buildings, and sealed containers are not directly blocking space lanes or interrupting other players. Bubbles will. And I personally don't feel like being stopped at every single freaking gate as I'm trying to quickly get across the system to help a corpmate out.
This is just a lazy suiciders camp. |
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