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Linky post for Devs re: Blasters

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Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.11 12:27:00 - [1] Ok so that thread bloated quite a bit and I guess you guys don't want to wade through it all, so here's relevent links to 'technical' bits and bobs. One of the things a number of us are curious about is, are you actively looking into the tracking formula while you are tinkering with the missile damage formula? Originally by: Gabriel Karade Edited by: Gabriel Karade on 19/08/2008 16:45:38 Quick summary and links to detailed posts with numbers, will add to as I find them: Comparison of effective tracking of different turrets, courtesy Gabriel, post #308 EFT plot of DPS for different Battleships post patch, courtesy Bellum, post #345. Hit chance, Megathron vs Ishtar courtesy Liang, post #356 Different Battleships DPS vs same target, courtesy Markas, post #368 Live fire test, zero-fit stabber vs Megathron, courtesy Gabriel, post #424 and 428 TQ vs Sisi distance vs time curves for a Megathron, courtesy Marn, post #453, plus afterburner bonus to blasterships numbers, Gabriel, post #456. Maple plots of hit quality for Megathron, Tempest and Armageddon, courtesy Grytok, post #471 and 477 Plots of hit quality on same scale, courtesy Grytok. post #487. Signature resolution reduction for short range turrets to mimic size vs distance, courtesy Gabriel, post #498 Page detailed to modification of tracking formula to account for size vs. distance, including linear and log variations with hit % numbers, post #511, 513, 525, 531, 536, 537, courtesy of Liang/Gabriel Detailed plots of modifcation using variations of falloff + optimal, courtesy Liang, post #452 p.s I think the tracking modification is superb, it makes 'falloff' work at both ends of the scale. p.p.s Devs, how is it possible to say 'no' to this face?... Cheers, Gabriel -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.10.11 13:35:00 - [2] Edited by: Fullmetal Jackass on 11/10/2008 13:44:49 Originally by: Gabriel Karade Plots of hit quality on same scale, courtesy Grytok. post #487. Signature resolution reduction for short range turrets to mimic size vs distance, courtesy Gabriel, post #498 Ya know, I thought it was the idea of reducing the web strength so that it wasn't insta death for smaller ship vs larger ship? So a cruiser can orbit inside webrange and not be insta popped by large guns? Working as intended I say. Does a BS not have drones? No missiles? Can't fit a neut? Smart bombs? Edit: I know someone cited the ishtar as bein able to defeat smart bomb by lauching more heavy drones. Maybe the issue there is a HAS using a bonused battleship class weapon as it's primary damage? Or did I totally miss the point of the graphs?
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.11 13:41:00 - [3] There's a huge difference between 'insta death' and 'total immunity', somewhere in the middle is desirable. But more importantly the tracking formula question... -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Fullmetal Jackass	Posted - 2008.10.11 13:46:00 - [4] well yeah, I'm not sayin the numbers are perfect yet, or that the patch is ready for live, but I rather like the direction the devs are tryin to take for the most part.
Solomon XI Hoist The Colors. Pirate Coalition	Posted - 2008.10.11 14:14:00 - [5] Yeah ... the Dev's didn't even discuss blasters during the LDB (which was fail in it's own right). ~Solo Hoist The Colors. (CEO) Pirate Coalition (Yar?)
Iog Krugar The Rising Stars Cosmic Anomalies	Posted - 2008.10.11 14:47:00 - [6] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass well yeah, I'm not sayin the numbers are perfect yet, or that the patch is ready for live, but I rather like the direction the devs are tryin to take for the most part. so do i, but the numbers presented make a very strong case to something being way out of proportion --- i suposse everyone rolls around stations in pods
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.13 14:02:00 - [7] Back up you go matey. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
lebrata Hedion University	Posted - 2008.10.13 15:00:00 - [8] Edited by: lebrata on 13/10/2008 15:04:48 I am a little confused to why the orbital range and speed of a cruiser or any other small ship vs a BS in regards to tanking is significant considering that 1 v 1 is massively rare and that in a gang fight a ship can hardly be at close range(under the tracking so to speak) of ALL of the hostile ships?.
Miriyaka GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2008.10.13 15:45:00 - [9] Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 13/10/2008 15:04:48 I am a little confused to why the orbital range and speed of a cruiser or any other small ship vs a BS in regards to tanking is significant considering that 1 v 1 is massively rare and that in a gang fight a ship can hardly be at close range(under the tracking so to speak) of ALL of the hostile ships?. Blaster ships (battleships in particular) are one of the last bastions of solo PVP in Eve. The Megathron and Hyperion are better than the Raven at exactly one thing right now, and that is 1v2-5 against smaller ships. Take that away, and the Raven becomes the undisputed king of short-range combat, while the Rokh is the undisputed king of hybrid sniping. That leaves the Megathron and Hyperion where, exactly? I don't fly battleships often, but I'm as confused as anyone as to why battleship speed, tracking, and tackling capability is being reduced to negligible levels along with T2 cruisers et al.
RedSplat	Posted - 2008.10.13 16:20:00 - [10] Devs have demonstrated, to me at least, that they either dont pvp or simply arent interested in player feedback. I would love for someone to prove me wrong and to see a dev post giving thier PERSONAL views on the matter.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.13 17:01:00 - [11] Originally by: lebrata Edited by: lebrata on 13/10/2008 15:04:48 I am a little confused to why the orbital range and speed of a cruiser or any other small ship vs a BS in regards to tanking is significant considering that 1 v 1 is massively rare and that in a gang fight a ship can hardly be at close range(under the tracking so to speak) of ALL of the hostile ships?. In regards to tanking?? I'm pointing out post-changes cruisers have effective invulnerability to short range Blaster Battleships; they can choose to keep out of range or dive in under the turrets, and with the other changes (speed, scramblers) Blaster Battleships are completely worthless (medium range Battleships have comparable real dps at much more effective engagement ranges once tracking/falloff are involved). -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.13 21:28:00 - [12] Gabe, you forgot to mention that "mid range" battleships have no problems whatsoever with tracking cruisers in their engagement range... why should blasters be any different? -Liang --
Cornette Gallente Black Screen of Death HUZZAH FEDERATION	Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 - [13] I give this thread a friendly bump because I hope the devs will take notice and because I don't want to see blasterships be next to worthless soon.
Bellum Eternus Gallente Death of Virtue	Posted - 2008.10.14 08:42:00 - [14] Nice summary. <bump> Bellum Eternus [Vid] L E G E N D A R Y COLLECTION Inveniam viam aut faciam.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.14 17:31:00 - [15] Nope, Back up you go. Too much good input linked for it to languish on page 2. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:18:00 - [16] Originally by: Fullmetal Jackass Edit: I know someone cited the ishtar as bein able to defeat smart bomb by lauching more heavy drones. Maybe the issue there is a HAS using a bonused battleship class weapon as it's primary damage? Or did I totally miss the point of the graphs? Since when exactly is there anything battleship-class about heavy drones? It's certainly not their DPS, what exactly is so battleshippy about them? Abusive \| Deadspace \| Deadspace2
Daan Sai Polytrope	Posted - 2008.10.15 01:59:00 - [17] The sig res of their guns is larger than medium turrets.
doctorstupid2 The Accursed	Posted - 2008.10.15 02:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Daan Sai The sig res of their guns is larger than medium turrets. Is not. 125 meter resolution for all heavy drones and medium guns. Try again. Abusive \| Deadspace \| Deadspace2
Sgt Napalm Synergy Evolved	Posted - 2008.10.15 03:23:00 - [19] Good cliff notes
Vengal Seyhan Sten Industries	Posted - 2008.10.15 11:24:00 - [20] Originally by: doctorstupid2 Originally by: Daan Sai The sig res of their guns is larger than medium turrets. Is not. 125 meter resolution for all heavy drones and medium guns. Try again. You can also note the favoured targets that the AI assigns to drones in PVE. Sentry drones favour battleships. Heavy drones favour battlecruisers and then cruisers. Maybe not intentional, but telling nonetheless :D ..you know, if I were writing drone AI to find the best target I'd say something like: Check : Valid target? (Has it fired on the owner or designated guardian) Check : Sig Resolution - Sig Radius, favour smallest number. Check : Range from drone to next target - favour closest range. Seems easy, and pretty much the way the drone AI works. ... Note, as an admittedly biased T2 Sentry drone-ophile, I am NOT suggesting that the bandwidth on Sentry drones goes up. I think they're pretty balanced already.
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.16 10:13:00 - [21] Not much to add, other than some blue bars... nudge -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.17 16:34:00 - [22] No blue for the wicked? Come on, we know you guys are up to something, you don't accidentally break the tracking formula by playing with the missile damage formula.... -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Liang Nuren No Salvation	Posted - 2008.10.17 16:35:00 - [23] Originally by: Gabriel Karade No blue for the wicked? Come on, we know you guys are up to something, you don't accidentally break the tracking formula by playing with the missile damage formula.... Want to bet money on that? -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire Liang/Vanesca - Order/Iron Rock@WAR Liang - Destro/Azazel@WAR www.kwikdeath.org
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.18 08:47:00 - [24] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Gabriel Karade No blue for the wicked? Come on, we know you guys are up to something, you don't accidentally break the tracking formula by playing with the missile damage formula.... Want to bet money on that? -Liang While I'm an optimist, I'm also pragmatic... no -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.21 18:06:00 - [25] Any progress on the tracking formula? -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
Aokie Gallente	Posted - 2008.10.21 21:04:00 - [26] bump for a fellow blaster user.
Kalintos Tyl Minmatar	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:26:00 - [27] blasters dont need buff, large autconaons need a bit improvement, and large arty their alpha back. http://dl.eve-files.com/media/0810/lie.jpg guide ninja edited already hidden topic: http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&thread
Gabriel Karade Nulli-Secundus	Posted - 2008.10.22 15:03:00 - [28] Originally by: Kalintos Tyl blasters dont need buff, large autconaons need a bit improvement, and large arty their alpha back. I suppose the tracking formula doesn't have a huge hole that has been identified above?.... but cheers for 'le bump'. Blasters and Autocannons both have issues with these changes. -------------- Video - 'War-Machine'
DrAtomic Atomic Heroes Resurgency	Posted - 2008.10.22 16:03:00 - [29] Since your goal was to add a summary for the devs could you please at the topic numers to the pagelinks as well i.e. Good linky to mega versus t1 cruisers stats Scroll the page linky to mega versus t1 cruiser thread - - - Originally by: CCP Wrangler If you can understand our goal, disagree with our solution and offer a solution that is equal or better your opinion has a better chance of being heard...
Strill	Posted - 2008.10.23 21:33:00 - [30] From the live dev blog: gg everyone Originally by: 'Zulupark' Personally I don't see anything wrong with blaster ships, and think they will be better after the changes. Though if anything comes up on TQ or during testing it'll be looked at.

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