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Best Marauder for PVE ?

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Amelia O	Posted - 2008.10.12 20:54:00 - [1] I'm mainly a "carebear pve player" for now. I will be flying a raven in a week and still want somekind of "goal" , so I settled with a marauder for missioning in the future. which one is the best for pve ? I don't care if I need to train stuff to fly it, so no GOLEM please. thanks !
Zionysus	Posted - 2008.10.12 20:58:00 - [2] best marauder for pve is the golem, so I don't know why you're asking for the best and saying no to the golem. If you're dead set against it, you could settle for a Paladin, but thats a completely different skill training tree to go through. The other two marauders are hardly worth the training in my opinion.
Aleus Stygian	Posted - 2008.10.12 20:59:00 - [3] If it's not the Golem (which I'd recommend in the first place), then it's certainly the Paladin. By far. Best active tank of any Marauder (and you know there's no other tank on a BS...), and lasers. Can't go wrong. My question is... even though you have got the whole 'Amarr and Caldari FOTM' down there... Aren't you getting a little ahead of yourself?
Amelia O	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:01:00 - [4] on the raven line I'll get a CNR, I don't want to have 3 raven chassis ships =(. Crosstraining training amarr is fine I guess.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:03:00 - [5] Edited by: The Djego on 12/10/2008 21:06:05 Actualy Torp Golem is the best atm, mostly by his stunning DPS, Paladin is has good DPS to but mission against EM resist rats is kind of slowing you down. Kronos is all around a very good ship, good DPS(800-900 with good Skills) good Range and next to no Missions where Kin/Thermal gets you serious Drawbacks(Blood and Sansha are bit slower, but not to mutch), next to the Golem the best all around Maroder. The Mini maroder, well not realy haven¦t flown it myself or seen it in action first hand, overall a bit lower Damage and designed around AKs(while puls rule in Missions, Aks get serious penaltys because they mostly working in Falloff). I personaly use a Kronos and got a Char with a preaty decend Skilled Abaddon(1200 DPS Mission Ship, that even gank thrue Gurista BS ) and missioned a bit with a Torp Golem pilote, so mostly first hand info on this ships... ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:06:00 - [6] I don't see why the Kronos doesn't get a mention. It has all the bonuses of the Hyperion and Megathron: damage, tracking, repping, eight effective guns, Megathron hull, etc. You can easily fit T2 425's, a couple of tracking computers, a webber, and make it cap stable. Where did all the Kronos love go? -- Eventus stultorum magister.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:11:00 - [7] Originally by: Arthur Frayn I don't see why the Kronos doesn't get a mention. It has all the bonuses of the Hyperion and Megathron: damage, tracking, repping, eight effective guns, Megathron hull, etc. You can easily fit T2 425's, a couple of tracking computers, a webber, and make it cap stable. Where did all the Kronos love go? Kronos is quite good, I use it very often, but next to a Torp Golem with good Skills you feel a bit the lack of DPS. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Arthur Frayn V.O.F.L IRON CORE H E L I C O N	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:13:00 - [8] Originally by: The Djego Kronos is quite good, I use it very often, but next to a Torp Golem with good Skills you feel a bit the lack of DPS. I'll take wrecking shots over torpedo DPS anyday... -- Eventus stultorum magister.
Zionysus	Posted - 2008.10.12 21:36:00 - [9] The reason the Kronos doesn't get a mention is because rails are sub-par compared to the sheer dps/alpha/tracking of tachyons, or the versatility and alpha of torps. Its a decent ship, but it does not compare favorably to the Golem or the Paladin, because even factoring damage types, lasers outperform rails in almost every situation. The Kronos is saved from being the worst marauder by virtue of the existence of the Vargur
Shaun Ronin Shadows of Honor	Posted - 2008.10.12 23:12:00 - [10] Edited by: Shaun Ronin on 12/10/2008 23:13:53 Try the Kronos with tech 2 Neutrons w/ Null + Void. I can fit 3 gallente Navy Mag Stabs and still have a good tank for almost all lvl 4 missions. I switch to rails in only a few for aggro distance purposes and drop a mag stab for a damage control 2 at times. Of course a 100mn Ab tech 2 or better as well. Null can hit up to 20km out cruiser and up, plus It will nail frigs coming in as well, but thats what tech 2 hammerheads are for. Damage is well....tasty. Wrecking hits of around 3500 on BS's max I've had plus or minus. Skills can tip the scales though. I got large blaster n rail spec at 4. Plus I'm a gallente BS 5 pilot + Marauders lvl 4. Kronos is great for gallente missions anyway, but to each his own.
Mire Stoude Cash Money Brothers Elitist Cowards	Posted - 2008.10.13 00:34:00 - [11] Originally by: The Djego Originally by: Arthur Frayn I don't see why the Kronos doesn't get a mention. It has all the bonuses of the Hyperion and Megathron: damage, tracking, repping, eight effective guns, Megathron hull, etc. You can easily fit T2 425's, a couple of tracking computers, a webber, and make it cap stable. Where did all the Kronos love go? Kronos is quite good, I use it very often, but next to a Torp Golem with good Skills you feel a bit the lack of DPS. Hmm, I already have a difficult time of having enough targets locked to keep up with my guns while in the Kronos. I don't know what I would do with more DPS, tbh. Some missions against angels it can go a little slow, but I'm pretty happy with the Kronos.
The Djego Minmatar merovinger inc	Posted - 2008.10.13 00:36:00 - [12] Originally by: Zionysus The reason the Kronos doesn't get a mention is because rails are sub-par compared to the sheer dps/alpha/tracking of tachyons, or the versatility and alpha of torps. Its a decent ship, but it does not compare favorably to the Golem or the Paladin, because even factoring damage types, lasers outperform rails in almost every situation. The Kronos is saved from being the worst marauder by virtue of the existence of the Vargur I disagree here, Angels and Guristas are comparing Mission times from the Kronos and the Abaddon(same DPS, max Tracking, Puls) it depends on the Mission. Even if 400-100 DPS(Depending on the range) are beween both fittings Kronos don¦t fall behind most of the time. The better Damage types saving it from beeing ineffective. Puls on the other hand got the very good Tracking advantage that helps even in Missions were the rats got high EM Reistance to deliver a steady DPS, even if highly reduced by resitances, nealy like Missles. Didn¦t realy use Beams, since the tracking advantage of Puls realy make a diffrence. If you rig and Fit for range 80km are not a problem, and within 40km Combat range that is very common, DPS to Beams are mostly equal with a better tracking. In my Opinion, Lasers are the closest to Missles, thx to her Tracking, while the Damage Type mostly is a bit of drawback that keeps them in check with ohter Turrets. ---- Nerf Tank - Boost Gank! Originally by: Amantus Real men don't need to get into blaster range.
Isaph	Posted - 2008.10.13 01:07:00 - [13] While we're on the topic, what defines a "good skillset" for a golem? Specifically, what skills are worth having and at what levels(training wise) do these skills not really see much improvement?
Hotice	Posted - 2008.10.13 03:06:00 - [14] Edited by: Hotice on 13/10/2008 03:12:49 Originally by: Isaph While we're on the topic, what defines a "good skillset" for a golem? Specifically, what skills are worth having and at what levels(training wise) do these skills not really see much improvement? Good skill set would be missle speed/flight time/warhead/rapid lauch at lvl 5, lvl 4 torp/cruise spec. As for the best 1 ship that you will fly full time, then it has to be golem like or not. I personally fly all 4 of those ships, the ships that I use most is Nightmare(don't like paladin's look) and golem. I only kronos on some of the guristas mission. So, at the end, it greatly depends on the type of missions you do most often. For guristas/serp, kronos is the best. For angel/merc, torp golem is the best. For sansha/blood raider, paladin/nightmare is the best. It is a good idea to train for at least two different line of ships. This way, you can pick the ship that fits your mission more effectively.
Zionysus	Posted - 2008.10.13 04:50:00 - [15] Originally by: Shaun Ronin Edited by: Shaun Ronin on 12/10/2008 23:13:53 Try the Kronos with tech 2 Neutrons w/ Null + Void. I can fit 3 gallente Navy Mag Stabs and still have a good tank for almost all lvl 4 missions. I switch to rails in only a few for aggro distance purposes and drop a mag stab for a damage control 2 at times. Of course a 100mn Ab tech 2 or better as well. Null can hit up to 20km out cruiser and up, plus It will nail frigs coming in as well, but thats what tech 2 hammerheads are for. Damage is well....tasty. Wrecking hits of around 3500 on BS's max I've had plus or minus. Skills can tip the scales though. I got large blaster n rail spec at 4. Plus I'm a gallente BS 5 pilot + Marauders lvl 4. Kronos is great for gallente missions anyway, but to each his own. TBH the fact that you're using blasters says to me that you are not worried about mission efficiency. AB'ing into range using the shortest-ranged weapon system in the game doesnt make an efficient missioning ship, regardless of how much damage you do when you get there. As for your wreckings, you can easily get over 4k wrecking hits with tachyons on a Paladin/Nightmare, and you can do that out to 30+km (and with the NM you'll have better tracking as well). What makes a good mission ship is damage, the range that it can project that damage, and whether the tank will hold long enough for everything to die. This is why the Golem, Nightmare, and Paladin are superior to the Kronos and Vargur. They put out more damage at higher ranges, and can tank adequately enough for the job.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.10.13 05:11:00 - [16] The Golem is the best Marauder in the game, and probably the best mission running ship in the game, second only to (maybe) the Nightmare. The Paladin might be a close second, but the overall ease of use and effectiveness of the Golem makes it far superior to the Paladin IMO. I've tried quite a few Kronos setups already and I find it's performance shocking. Shockingly poor for a 'purpose built mission running ship.' My Dominix does a better job. Too many people look at EFT numbers and maximum potential DPS and think that the Paladin/Kronos are good, or at least somewhat comparable to the Golem. They're not. Even with T2 Sentries out (three in the case of the Kronos) and t2 425mm rails with faction/T2 ammo, and three faction magstabs, the Kronos doesn't put out anywhere near the on-target DPS that my Dominix does with it's T2 sentries and a sentry drone damage rig or two, all while maintaining more tank and more ease of use, at ranges over 40-50km. The overall poor tracking and sig res of large rails combined with the requirement to use ammunition other than antimatter at longer ranges really kills the actual on-target DPS of the turret ships. The Dominix, on the other hand, can put out excellent DPS out to ranges of 90-100km+ quite easily with just it's drones deployed, and with a few sentry drone damage rigs and a tracking module or two the results at long range are just outstanding, all while having an excellent permatank. What's more, with the Dominix's high DPS from it's light drones it's far more efficient at killing the small dangerous targets (warp scramming frigs) quickly when compared to all other ships (other than the other drone carriers), particularly if those ships are orbiting just out of drone range. The other thing is looting/salvaging. All Marauders IMO are horrible at looting/salvaging. I can easily run an entire mission with a Dominix and then come back with a dedicated salvage/loot ship and clean up what remains far faster than I can trying to run the mission and loot/salvage on the fly with my Kronos. No serious mission runner depends on their Marauder for salvaging their entire mission. The tractor beam bonus is useless. For the amount of ISK you have to put into a Marauder, you could fit out a Dominix that will have more average DPS over a wider number of situations for far more flexibility and ease of use, and do it for far less ISK than any Marauder, save the Golem. IMO CCP did a terrible job designing the Marauder class battleships, as they really don't offer much of anything over current ships, and for things like salvaging dedicated ships are still far superior. Color me unimpressed. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Daminma2 Perkone	Posted - 2008.10.13 06:00:00 - [17] Originally by: murder one What's more, with the Dominix's high DPS from it's light drones it's far more efficient at killing the small dangerous targets (warp scramming frigs) quickly when compared to all other ships (other than the other drone carriers), particularly if those ships are orbiting just out of drone range. This makes no sense. Drone range is 45KM. Which fast flying frigs are jamming you farther than this? I agree with you that the Dominix is a great mission running ship though, but it requires way too much management for my taste. I fly the cruise CNR, Torp Golem, Nightmare and Dominix(alt) on missions. Out of all those ships I enjoy Nightmare the most. Cruise CNR feels the most natural to me and that's because I've not been using torp golem for long. The Dominix, while a great ship requires the most effort from me when flying. Managing drone aggro really does get annoying. Watching their health, making sure they focus fire...sitting still for the sentries to do their work etc. It really gets annyoing.
murder one Gallente Invincible Reason	Posted - 2008.10.13 07:01:00 - [18] Originally by: Daminma2 Originally by: murder one What's more, with the Dominix's high DPS from it's light drones it's far more efficient at killing the small dangerous targets (warp scramming frigs) quickly when compared to all other ships (other than the other drone carriers), particularly if those ships are orbiting just out of drone range. This makes no sense. Drone range is 45KM. Which fast flying frigs are jamming you farther than this? I agree with you that the Dominix is a great mission running ship though, but it requires way too much management for my taste. I fly the cruise CNR, Torp Golem, Nightmare and Dominix(alt) on missions. Out of all those ships I enjoy Nightmare the most. Cruise CNR feels the most natural to me and that's because I've not been using torp golem for long. The Dominix, while a great ship requires the most effort from me when flying. Managing drone aggro really does get annoying. Watching their health, making sure they focus fire...sitting still for the sentries to do their work etc. It really gets annyoing. LOL. Meant to say web range. Sorry, was AFKing a Level 4 in my Dominix while writing the post haha. Using the Dominix for L4s requires zero micro managment. Get aggro, release drones, go afk. That's it. If you average in all the time that it takes to kill the smaller ships with cruise missiles/support drones vs. the time it takes to for T2 heavies to kill them while running a drone nav mod and tracking mods, the Domi can actually keep up quite nicely with any mission running setup except the Raven hulls. The Kronos is a giant waste of ISK. [07:13:55] doctorstupid2 > what do i train now? [07:14:05] Trista Rotnor > little boys to 2 Fleet Combat Ships
Derek Sigres	Posted - 2008.10.13 07:07:00 - [19] Originally by: Amelia O I'm mainly a "carebear pve player" for now. I will be flying a raven in a week and still want somekind of "goal" , so I settled with a marauder for missioning in the future. which one is the best for pve ? I don't care if I need to train stuff to fly it, so no GOLEM please. thanks ! All the Marauders are excellent PVE ships, so the answer is "whichever one it will take the least amount of time to get". That being said, the Golem is the most FLEXIBLE of the marauders (it works equally well against any Rat type), but it's generally outshined against a particular group of rats by another ship (or ships as the case may be). The Paladin for example is the best marauder if fighting blood raiders or sansha's nation.
Carniflex Caldari StarHunt Fallout Project	Posted - 2008.10.13 07:47:00 - [20] Golem/CNR and/or Paladin/Nightmare Depends a bit on region you are living in and your mission running style. I have personal experience only with ravenkind part of that suggestion, but have seen some numbers a while ago suggesting, that paladin/nightmare would outperfom cnr/golem against drones/sansha and blood raiders. As far as gallente and minmatar marauders go .. well .. I guess they are not THAT bad, it's just that Golem/Paladin outperform them. Up to 40 km nothing can compete with torpedo Golem (except torpedo CNR) and above that Tahyons do their stuff better than Rails/artillery unless you happen to fight angels/mercks.
SuckySycky5dolla	Posted - 2008.10.13 17:09:00 - [21] Won't Golem's affectiveness in missions be limited by NPC defender misiles? Losing 2 out of 4 missiles would suck. NO?
Lijhal	Posted - 2008.10.13 17:15:00 - [22] Originally by: SuckySycky5dolla Won't Golem's affectiveness in missions be limited by NPC defender misiles? Losing 2 out of 4 missiles would suck. NO? if you are running the golem with cruise missiles (which, in my opinion is a fail), yes.. if you are running the golem with torps, they need at last 4 defender to take down one torp due the difference in torp hp vs cruise hp
Leandro Salazar Celestial Apocalypse	Posted - 2008.10.13 18:28:00 - [23] With all the Kronos dissing around here, I gotta say that my Kronos does Angel Extra faster than my torp Golem. If it didn't waste a ship bonus on a web that has no place ever on a good mission ship, it would be right up there with the Paladin (Yeah I know Paladin suffers from web bonus too, but it makes up for that with sporting the best mission weapons in game). If it supported shieldtanking a little better than it does (shieldtanking > armortanking against the Kronoses ideal enemies), it would be really great. And if you are reading this, you have arrived at the signature without noticing...
Lady Aja Caldari Creative Destruction Pupule 'Ohana	Posted - 2008.10.13 18:37:00 - [24] Originally by: Daminma2 Originally by: murder one What's more, with the Dominix's high DPS from it's light drones it's far more efficient at killing the small dangerous targets (warp scramming frigs) quickly when compared to all other ships (other than the other drone carriers), particularly if those ships are orbiting just out of drone range. This makes no sense. Drone range is 45KM. Which fast flying frigs are jamming you farther than this? I agree with you that the Dominix is a great mission running ship though, but it requires way too much management for my taste. I fly the cruise CNR, Torp Golem, Nightmare and Dominix(alt) on missions. Out of all those ships I enjoy Nightmare the most. Cruise CNR feels the most natural to me and that's because I've not been using torp golem for long. The Dominix, while a great ship requires the most effort from me when flying. Managing drone aggro really does get annoying. Watching their health, making sure they focus fire...sitting still for the sentries to do their work etc. It really gets annyoing. Dood ... range is actually 60km with the electronic warfare drone interfacing skill. +3km per level. and i consider it mandatory for any drone user to a minimum of lvl 4. another thing... I actually think murder one is pretty good as a eve pilot and would oneday maybe consider joiing his corp IF i was welcome lol.
Layla Ashley Amarr Children of Avalon Avateas Blessed	Posted - 2008.10.13 19:13:00 - [25] i would go with a golem if i would want the best pve marauder. i only have a paladin and i love it and its performance. however, it has problems dealing with ewar hacs. and i believe golem would be better for these situations, because in addition to drones you could load fof missiles.
P'uck	Posted - 2008.10.13 19:31:00 - [26] Edited by: P''uck on 13/10/2008 19:31:24 errrrmmm something else... how often do you guys see marauders in pvp? I certainly don't see them that often... so i thought "pve marauder" was a bit redundant, but meh...
adriaans Amarr Ankaa.	Posted - 2008.10.13 19:40:00 - [27] Originally by: P'uck Edited by: P''uck on 13/10/2008 19:31:24 errrrmmm something else... how often do you guys see marauders in pvp? I certainly don't see them that often... so i thought "pve marauder" was a bit redundant, but meh... i see them regulary actually.... -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze M crystals for Amarr!
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2008.10.13 19:47:00 - [28] I think Torp Golem wins as best all-around PVE marauder. great DPS, great tank and equally effective against all targets.
KD.Fluffy Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:30:00 - [29] Paladin is the best marauder. You really can't beat 1000+ turret dps. Golem does good with siege, but it is using missles that can barely hit battleships for full damage and have limited range, paladin can hit out to 160km with tachyons if it needs to and do similar damage to torps without sig radius issues at closer ranges.
IceCreamMonster	Posted - 2008.10.13 20:59:00 - [30] Originally by: KD.Fluffy ... paladin can hit out to 160km with tachyons if it needs to and do similar damage to torps without sig radius issues at closer ranges. What does sig radius issues have to do with range? You should be using a painter with Torp golem anyways. Tachyons miss like crazy up close, have you tried doing angel extrav. or damsel with tachyons? Golem wins all around! >;)

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