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Rick Galshin
State War Academy Caldari State
3
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Posted - 2012.03.31 14:00:00 -
[1] - Quote
So I've been playing at several different career paths, I've taken to the market and earnt more isk than I can spend with my current skills, and I'm pouring the non-invested cash into ships to help get rookies into PvP.
I've run myself up to level 4 missions (should I wish to hang around long enough to complete them), have briefly touched on mining, had some success ninja looting and salvaging, done some manufacturing and traded a few BPOs around. I've done a little solo nullsec PvP (with little success so far), and even some white-knight anti-piracy work
I have come across one profession in eve that I want to pursue long term: Fleet Commander
Having seen the various videos of small, well managed fleets turning the odds against much larger foes, and seeing firsthand the difference a well versed fleet commander has on even small gangs, I want to know what I have to do to get there
So far I'm working with Stellar Vix and msmall squads of rookies in lowsec/shallow nullsec, and some highsec shenanigans too. I'm not too keen to join a player Corp just yet as I still have a fair bit to learn from this position. Are there any Guides worth reading, any particular players/Corps I should be talking to, and generally any places I would go to get FC experience after SWA
All opinions/trolls welcome. |
Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
9
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 14:17:00 -
[2] - Quote
It's p simple, join a pure pvp corp (yes that means leaving your beloved NPC corp) pvp under experienced FC s for a year or two, observe what they do and why, understand game mechanics and tactics used by your fleet and enemy fleet, and then you're good to go.
First you have to learn to pvp yourself, then think about FCing others. For now , a good start would finding a good rupture fit, and hint, it's not this one :
http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12799465 |
Bernie Nator
Talocan Hive Talocan United
152
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 14:38:00 -
[3] - Quote
What you should do is find a nice group of pvp'ers, and ask them to train you how to not be bad at pvp. It's the fast track to learning to fc. |
Darthewok
Perkone Caldari State
37
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 14:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
Try joining RvB for a bit. Because it is quite informal, you will get a few opportunities to FC small gangs. You're not going to learn everything there, but at least you get a start. CAVEAT RICHARDUS VOLVERE - YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0 |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
171
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 15:00:00 -
[5] - Quote
Get the hell out of an NPC corp. Then get into fleets with a good FCs. Does not really matter where you start. Easy way is to join some Militia or RvB (easy part of the easy way) and figure out who there is the guy who actually knows their stuff (harder, as a pro-tip it is probably not the guy who talks most about how awesome they are). You can also look for corps that seem good at what they do and try and get in.
Fly with many FCs. When in fleets, try to follow the FC's reasoning - why did he do this or that, what intel made him to change his mind, etc. Try to keep the field in your head and think about what you would do if you were the FC. Ask (after the operation) if you did not understand something.
Then just start doing it. And do not get discouraged when you lose ships (you will) and people call you names for it (they will). Try to learn from every fleet, whether it was a success or failure.
Takes a year or two to get there if you put your mind into it and have some pvp experience to begin with. |
IHaveCandyGetInTheVan69
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
113
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 17:29:00 -
[6] - Quote
The path to being an FC is simple, learn every aspect of the game that could affect you, beyond that is simply a matter of being capable of processing what can be a very large amount of information. Fly with other good pilots under good FC and learn what to do. All PVP experience is good, including solo. Learn to communicate clearly and quickly, scouting is a good way to practice this
Lear -The common fits and capabilities of most ship -Your enemy (tactics, their mentality, capabilities, moral etc.. -Your pilots (capabilities, ship classes, moral etc.. -The mechanics of the game you are likely to encounte -The area of space you are likely to engage in (distance between gates etc...
Be aware o -Spacial awareness, both hostile and friendly on gri -Your scouts positionin -Logistic stability both friendly and hostil -Heat levels (are you overloading your fleet too little or too much -Aggression timer
As other posters have said it will probably be at least a year, more likely 2 of fairly frequent flying before you can expect to do all these reliably.
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Fleet Warpsujarento
State Protectorate Caldari State
56
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 17:54:00 -
[7] - Quote
To some extent it's true that you have to know the game pretty well. You can't FC if you don't know every ship in the game and what its role is. You have to know likely weapons ranges, likely fits, and have a pretty good idea of game mechanics.
That said, a big part of being an FC is simply taking the initiative to say "I'm forming a fleet at 1600 EVE, bring shield BCs." As long as you have some experienced people in fleet with you, and you make it clear that you want them to tell you when you're missing something, or doing something wrong, you can't go too far wrong.
I've known some players who are completely derp when they're on their own, but actually make pretty decent FCs with the right people around them. |
Heredom
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
7
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 19:01:00 -
[8] - Quote
Lock out wrote:It's p simple, join a pure pvp corp (yes that means leaving your beloved NPC corp) pvp under experienced FC s for a year or two, observe what they do and why, understand game mechanics and tactics used by your fleet and enemy fleet, and then you're good to go. First you have to learn to pvp yourself, then think about FCing others. For now , a good start would finding a good rupture fit, and hint, it's not this one : http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12799465
Done, signature edited with perfection!... |
Tobiaz
Spacerats
99
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 20:30:00 -
[9] - Quote
The first step of becoming a FC is just being bold and taking command when nobody else does.
The second step is listening to your pilots for advice, but you being the one that decides.
The third step is looking back at whatever went wrong and trying to learn from your mistakes.
There is one major downside to being an FC though: there is no way back. Once you've stood up and taken command, everyone expects you to continue leading them. Many FCs burn out because of all the bullshit and politics they have to deal with. So that's why:
The fourth step is learning to delegate. Don't try to do everything yourself, tell others to do it for you. http://go-dl.eve-files.com/media/corp/Tobiaz/sig_complaints.gif
How about fixing image-linking on the forums, CCP? I want to see signatures! |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
384
|
Posted - 2012.03.31 21:48:00 -
[10] - Quote
It doesn't take a year of ground floor experience if you're out there every night, getting fights. And yeah, the first and biggest step is just stepping up and taking dudes out. The second step is getting over your initial welps. |
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Intigo
Genos Occidere HYDRA RELOADED
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 00:28:00 -
[11] - Quote
Learn to PvP. Then think about FC'ing someone else.
EVE has enough FCs who have no clue how EVE PvP works. The truly successful ones are the few that take the time to learn PvP and then apply themselves to lead others. |
Pulgy
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
53
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 01:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
Lock out wrote:It's p simple, join a pure pvp corp (yes that means leaving your beloved NPC corp) pvp under experienced FC s for a year or two, observe what they do and why, understand game mechanics and tactics used by your fleet and enemy fleet, and then you're good to go. First you have to learn to pvp yourself, then think about FCing others. For now , a good start would finding a good rupture fit, and hint, it's not this one : http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=12799465 This. By the way I hope you have the patience of a saint if you really want to be an FC. No range? No problem!Join the Church of the Holy BlasterGäó . A Hybrid religion. |
Rick Galshin
State War Academy Caldari State
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 02:23:00 -
[13] - Quote
Wow thanks for all the responses and advice.
Yes please ignore that ruppy fit, it was a pretty specific build to take on a manticore/dramiel duo that had a friend trapped in nullsec. Once the dram/manti decided not to engage, I had no use for it so engaged the first thing I saw. Lessons were learnt from a battle which I couldn't win, and I thanked the two for what was a disappointingly simple, but informative fight.
So it sounds like I'm basically going to be spending the next few weeks getting fights everywhere I can, hopping into any fleets I can get into with decent FCs, and generally throwing a ship into any fight that won't be over in the first 5 seconds.
I'm not a fan of the idea behind Red vs Blue, but damn they do get a lot of fights judging by the wrecks I see around highsec.
Thank you all for the helping lay out a rough path to follow. |
Clementina
The Scope
61
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 04:34:00 -
[14] - Quote
Lots of good advice in this thread, from people who probably know more than me. Some things I'll add though.
First, you might have noticed the 'shakes' of PvP already. They get worse when you're a fleet commander. You've got to be able to command fleets even when you're afraid and there is more to be afraid of; not only the loss of your ship and pod, but also the defeat of your crew. Eventually you'll get use to it though.
Then for some experience, when you're in a fleet with someone else commanding, try to pay as much attention as you would when you yourself would be fleet commanding. Usually the FC is thinking harder than everyone else (and comes home more exhausted then everyone else), but you should think about what they are doing when you're out.
Also there are several jobs that go into fleet commanding; giving directions, scouting, target calling, processing intelligence, setting up bonuses, inviting people to the fleet. If you want to be a sane fleet commander at the end of the day, you'll find a way to farm out scouting, bonuses, and invitations at a minimum.
Last thing that needs to be said here is that geography is important. If you're going to be operating in a region you should get the maps for that region from dotlan. Also know that high-sec, low-sec, wormhole space, and 0.0 are different. Know when you're fighting under gate guns and know who the locals are for any particular place. If you're going to be in faction warfare, also know that complexes can allow you to hide, allow your enemies to hide, or set you up to be ganked depending on what the complexes allow in. Eve who can be useful as well.
Good Luck, one thing you'll notice is that there is never an organization which has an overabundance of Fleet commanders, you'll have fun I'm sure. |
are34
Fusion Enterprises Ltd Northern Coalition.
2
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 15:54:00 -
[15] - Quote
Intigo wrote:Learn to PvP. Then think about FC'ing someone else.
EVE has enough FCs who have no clue how EVE PvP works. The truly successful ones are the few that take the time to learn PvP and then apply themselves to lead others.
this was by far the best and most simple post, please learn to pvp yourself rather than learning to pvp with others. If you get used to solo'ing then your not limited by other players either nto being around or not wanting to go/no isk/complaining and all that other crap. It also helps alot to learn game mechanics and how other people react to certain situations. |
Xi 'xar
Mise en Abyme
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 16:07:00 -
[16] - Quote
Take a couple of agony unleashed classes and then continue to fly with them as an allumni. Honestly, nothing taught me more about hearding cats than the incredible competence of their FCs. http://reduplication.wordpress.com/category/explore-low-sec/ http://reduplication.wordpress.com/category/live-low-sec/ http://mrsnypes.blogspot.com/2010/07/burnt-lands.html
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Red Teufel
Blackened Skies THE UNTHINKABLES
48
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 16:45:00 -
[17] - Quote
start small. start with running some gate camps. set yourself up an off grid safe about 1,000-2,000k away. then stage some scouts in the surrounding systems. when a targets jumps in you can decide to warp down and kill it. |
SOHCNightmare
Lions Of Judah Intrepid Crossing
1
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 21:44:00 -
[18] - Quote
I would say one of the most important qualities of being an FC (Not one myself, just speaking from observation) Is understanding all ships roles and abilites and how to counter them. Engaging ships without knowing what their capabilities are can be extremely detrimental. -Kill it with fire. |
Flurk Hellbron
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
78
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 21:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't. |
Sjugar
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
33
|
Posted - 2012.04.01 21:53:00 -
[20] - Quote
Intel intel intel.
Get your intel straight and you'll be winning fights.
Eve is a bit of chess and most battles are determined before even the first shot is fired. (multiple accounts and a network help a lot here)
Flurk Hellbron wrote:No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't. The number of "good" FC's in Eve is so low that with mediocre skills and a lot of effort you still will be successful. |
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Trinkets friend
Obstergo Persona Non Gratis
280
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 05:17:00 -
[21] - Quote
Make sure your voice doesn't sound like a troll gargling rocks or a castrato pig in an ironworks, and you'll be fine.
Sobriety and plenty of sleep also helps. The skilful employer of men will employ the wise man, the brave man, the covetous man, and the stupid man. Sun Tzu @trinketsfriend on twatter
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Hrett
Quantum Cats Syndicate Villore Accords
52
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 05:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
I am not a FC, but have lead some small fleets in the past and 'stepped up' in small gangs when the FC pops. That doesn't make me an FC though. I have also been the pvp leader in whatever group I am with in most other MMOs I have played - eve is far harder.
So, I can't give you any advice from a FC perspective - but I can from the grunt perspective. So here are some things that I am surprised no one has mentioned:
1. SPEAK FIRMLY AND LOUDLY AND OFTEN when in fights or close to them. It doesn't have to be salient, or true, or even correct - but you must speak. I don't recall ever being in a fleet flight where there was more than 5 seconds of dead air that wasn't immediately floowed by an instant derppittyderpdderp after. I caused one last night, and there were only 4 of us. I have listened to two more fleet destructions i the last days that were caused by silence. Speak. Say each target or order twice. Bob is primary, bob is primary - dweedle is secondary, dweedle is secondary. - if you speak really fast, you can get out a tertiary before you have to start repeating the cycle.
2. Pretend like you know what you are talking about and say it with conviction. In the long past, I flew with FCs who had trouble turning on ther computers or tying their shoes. But in fleets - its like Gregory Peck or the Duke inspiring you to victory.
3. Delegate. Even if you are dreck - hire people to make you look good. Chatterbox - you scout. Mr. Paramoid - you are our -1. Blondie with the big rack (of missiles!) get in that bait-drake and shake your thing. Shifty - you call recons, cynos and incoming blobs. That will leave you with the glory of target calling targets.
4. Dear god, don't do it if you are tired. Drunk is perfectly acceptable though. To keep with the theme above, drunks usually have no problem flapping their jaw and giving orders. Tired will get you dead air and dead air will get your gang wiped.
And hurry up will ya? We need some more FCs. ;) |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
24
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 09:30:00 -
[23] - Quote
Hrett wrote: Bob is primary, bob is primary
I hate you!
Bob is NEVER primary, or there will be no cheesecake. |
Touk
Astro Defence Industry The First Blood
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:03:00 -
[24] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't.
everyone can learn to FC, but only a few are good FC's |
Halete
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
47
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:44:00 -
[25] - Quote
Good luck. I'd love to learn to FC, but first I have to stop paying a subscription for chat-rooms and the occasional flying into a gate-camp. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance. |
Khanh'rhh
Red Federation RvB - RED Federation
993
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 11:59:00 -
[26] - Quote
Get over your nervousness by FCing in RvB, but leave before you start trying to learn tactics.
As fun as RvB is, FCing arranged fights is not really learning to FC - you will learn more about FCing when trying to find a fight. I would go further and say 75% of it is finding a fight (and methods therin) 20% is having a plan when it happens, and 5% is not ******* up. - "Do not touch anything unnecessarily. Beware of pretty girls in dance halls and parks who may be spies, as well as bicycles, revolvers, uniforms, arms, dead horses, and men lying on roads -- they are not there accidentally." -Soviet infantry manual, issued in the 1930's |
Red Venu Khardula
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
0
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 17:21:00 -
[27] - Quote
As a former field commander in NBT:M I cannot add anymore than what has already been said. Learn to pvp ( learn weapons,what they can and cannot do, what modules do, what ship types can and cannot do and there speicallty ) then find as many fleets you can and LISTEN to the FC and how he talks and commands. Take the time and lead small roams, when I was an fc I let the mechs choose my tactics not the other way around i.e. let the pilots of you small fleet bring what they want and then work with that setup. That made me learn allot when I was in mech4 but in the end when I left NBT:M I had a 75% win ratio even out-tonned and out manned.
Good luck because being an fc can be one of the most rewarding experiences and some of the best fights I have ever been in. |
Tanaka Sekigahara
United Space Marine Corp
67
|
Posted - 2012.04.02 21:03:00 -
[28] - Quote
Rick Galshin wrote:So I've been playing at several different career paths, I've taken to the market and earnt more isk than I can spend with my current skills, and I'm pouring the non-invested cash into ships to help get rookies into PvP.
I've run myself up to level 4 missions (should I wish to hang around long enough to complete them), have briefly touched on mining, had some success ninja looting and salvaging, done some manufacturing and traded a few BPOs around. I've done a little solo nullsec PvP (with little success so far), and even some white-knight anti-piracy work
I have come across one profession in eve that I want to pursue long term: Fleet Commander
Having seen the various videos of small, well managed fleets turning the odds against much larger foes, and seeing firsthand the difference a well versed fleet commander has on even small gangs, I want to know what I have to do to get there
So far I'm working with Stellar Vix and msmall squads of rookies in lowsec/shallow nullsec, and some highsec shenanigans too. I'm not too keen to join a player Corp just yet as I still have a fair bit to learn from this position. Are there any Guides worth reading, any particular players/Corps I should be talking to, and generally any places I would go to get FC experience after SWA
All opinions/trolls welcome.
All the advice given is great. Take it all and learn it all.
I myself will not trouble you with ships and fittings and game strategy, others can tell you that, but in the end, you have to learn to command, to THINK like a general.Learning the idiosyncrasies of the game will not teach you this. If f you REALLY want to be a good FC, learn how to wage war.That is a study in itself.
At the center of everything you do as an FC should be the decision cycle. Use the other advice in this thread for specific ways to get inside the enemies decision cycle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OODA_loop
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Boyd_%28military_strategist%29
Study war, and its basic nature. This is the best your going to get akin to a crash course.80 services worldwide have there officcers read " Warfighting"
http://www.dtic.mil/doctrine/jel/service_pubs/mcdp1.pdf
Command style is unique to each FC.In the end, one must make the commanders intent clear to sub commanders, and then not micromanage. Micromanagement will not be necessary if there is a comman basis in training.You can get some further ideas here
http://www.ramblemuse.com/rmtp/wp-content/uploads/2010/06/Widder_2002_Auftragstaktik_MilRevr.pdf
.............................................................................................................................................................................................................................
The above i consider essential for an serious wargamer in any game
If you want to get good, and apply modern military theory and have a thorough understanding of maneuver warfare You can get the "Maneuver warfare handbook", By William Lind.
http://www.amazon.com/Maneuver-Warfare-Handbook-Westview-Military/dp/086531862X
anything by Lind is good
Finally, last but not least
"Sherman" By B.H. Lidell Hart. Serious students of warfare know the name.
http://www.amazon.com/Sherman-Soldier-Realist-American-ebook/dp/B0022NGE80
The Germans read it and came up with the Blitzkreig.
All the above is modern military theory.All of it applies to eve, or can be applied to EvE.6 months you can go through it in your spare time.They dont teach you this stuff in EvE ( although you will see the best FCS have some adaption of most of it somewhere in what they do.)
In short, what wins wars IRL wins them in EvE as well.Same command and decision making principles apply. |
Torothin
Wrecking Shots Test Alliance Please Ignore
45
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 00:01:00 -
[29] - Quote
Start taking out gangs, familiarize yourself with ship types, and get experience through leading fleets. Start with cruiser sized ships and work your way up from there. Good luck! |
Halete
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 05:53:00 -
[30] - Quote
No offense intended of course, but I always thought that recommending military theory reading material was redundant when someone says they want to be an FC.
Chances are, they have some pretty good knowledge about military theory, or are capable enough thinkers to come to the same realizations as they could from reading that kind of material.
You know what's better than reading about military tactics? Actually FCing and working on internet spaceship tactics. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance. |
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Sevena Black
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
7
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 08:29:00 -
[31] - Quote
Getting everybody to STFU and focus fire on the primary is WIN imho |
marketjacker
Percussive Diplomacy PERCUSSIVE PIZZA TIME DIPLOMACY
12
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 10:52:00 -
[32] - Quote
Be willing to herd cats. That is all. |
Halete
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
49
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 11:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
Gotta say, from all the videos I've watched I'm amazed and how much some people struggle comprehending "All [ship class], your primary is [this guy]" even when it is repeated to them ten times. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance. |
Torothin
Wrecking Shots Test Alliance Please Ignore
45
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 13:08:00 -
[34] - Quote
This is an internet spaceship game and it has no similarities to the military what so ever. There are no logistics repping your health in real world combat, there are no this is primary and that is secondary (maybe in the navy but who knows), internet spaceship fcing is internet spaceship fcing and the only way to get good at it is through practice. |
Stonecold Steve
I N E X T R E M I S Fidelas Constans
56
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 13:38:00 -
[35] - Quote
"Dare to be bold pilot" <-- Get a ship, get some friends, go into the unknown. Loose your ship, recognize what went wrong and how you can improve. Then come back and try again.
Rome wasn't build in a day and a good FC makes mistakes in his carri+Źre. GÇŁQuod licet Iovi non licet boviGÇĽ- Gods may do what cattle may not."-á- |
Lyron-Baktos
Selective Pressure Rote Kapelle
72
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 14:14:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm not a FC but have a good idea on some of the qualities that make a good FC
1. Know the ships and roles of each ship inside and out - you have to know what your fleet can and can't do. You also have to know what the enemies ships can and can't do. Their strengths and weaknesses. 2. Know the pilots well in your group. If they are weak, you can't do any fancy tactics or anything. 3. Know the area in which you roam. Know all the corporations/alliances so you have a good idea of what they can field at any time. Also have to know if they have a good bat phone and if so, who they batphone so you can watch for them as well 4. experience, experience, experience - just start out with cheap ships and start learning On holiday. -áIn some other world. Where the music of the radio was a labyrinth of sonorous colours. To a bright centre of absolute convicton. -áWhere the dripping patchouli was more than scent. -á It was a sun |
Ka Jolo
The Tuskers
10
|
Posted - 2012.04.03 17:25:00 -
[37] - Quote
There has been some great advice given in this thread, to which I would add:
Just as in solo PVP the fight is over before it begins (ship fitting, decision to engage, etc.), a good FC has developed a fleet of pilots who fly with discipline and respect battlecomms. Your pilots should be willing to fly to their certain deaths should you so order, so that they will brilliantly execute your plan when that's what you order. Fly under a good FC, and you'll know what it's like to think you're flying to your certain death, only to end up covered in glory and wealth.
You must be prepared to bear the responsibility for losing pilots their ships. Even good FC's lose fights and make occasional mistakes; and you don't get to be a good FC without first being a noob FC. In my opinion there are some pilots out there who would make fantastic FCs if only they weren't so afraid of making mistakes that their mates pay for.
Finally, not an addition to what has already been said but more of an embellishment: communicate, communicate, communicate. Assume your fleet isn't paying attention, didn't hear your correctly, or hope they can pretend they didn't hear long enough to let some other guy go first. Repeat your orders, focusing on specific names, actions, timing, etc. During those slow times when you're basically waiting for the scouts to find something or the enemy to move, give your troops some reassurance as you outline your plan, explain your thinking, etc. During combat, when the situation hasn't change for a while, remind everyone of where they should be and what they should be doing. Your pilots will also tend to go silent, so ask questions repeatedly; ask scouts for status updates, remind people to speak up on certain triggers, ask who needs to dock up, who needs a bio break, who is low on ammo, who needs paste, etc. Also, it's smart to get input from people in your fleet--they may have noticed something you haven't, thought of something you haven't, or figured something out you haven't--but don't tolerate anyone countermanding your orders; otherwise, you'll end up in tight situations where two or three people are yelling out conflicting advice, and your fleet splits in whom they follow.
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lanyaie
17
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Posted - 2012.04.03 20:46:00 -
[38] - Quote
Being a Fc is a difficult task indeed, You need to know much about pvp, the area your fleet is in, specific roles of almost every if not every ship in eve, you need to be quick at deciding what to do and most of all be able to communicate with your fleet I dont post often, but when I do i'm probably trolling you |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 03:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
I personally tend to shiver when people claim they want to be FCs (leaders) ... Because you either are one or you aint.
Everybody can learn the basic stuff required but to be a good one you need to have it in you to begin with.
And seriously ... somebody wants to learn to be an FC and you copypaste a massive load of military books for him :D ... Very little one could learn from those for the FC job. Tbh ... if I learned that my FC read a pile of real world military books to become an FC .. id bail the fleet asap. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
390
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 05:39:00 -
[40] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:I personally tend to shiver when people claim they want to be FCs (leaders) ... Because you either are one or you aint.
Completely untrue. The best FCs I know got as good as they are because they spent weeks, months, years getting fights. Day in, day out. |
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Lock out
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
17
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 06:25:00 -
[41] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:
And seriously ... somebody wants to learn to be an FC and you copypaste a massive load of military books for him :D ... Very little one could learn from those for the FC job. Tbh ... if I learned that my FC read a pile of real world military books to become an FC .. id bail the fleet asap.
You mean Sun Tzu doesn't help you blow up madebelief spaceships ? Blasphemy ! |
Halete
Tribal Liberation Force Minmatar Republic
52
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 07:19:00 -
[42] - Quote
I think 'you have to have it in you' is a cop-out. That excuse is older than the Internet. The majority of people who get anywhere with anything do so with experience and work. Generic small-time hero-tackle pilot with no relevance. |
Cedo Nulli
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
98
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 14:58:00 -
[43] - Quote
Mfume Apocal wrote:Cedo Nulli wrote:I personally tend to shiver when people claim they want to be FCs (leaders) ... Because you either are one or you aint. Completely untrue. The best FCs I know got as good as they are because they spent weeks, months, years getting fights. Day in, day out.
They most likely had the FC qualities to begin with .. they only needed the game-wiki to be downloaded into their heads via the game.
Doing a billion fights doesent make you into an FC .. it just makes you into a pvper. 2 different things. |
Mfume Apocal
Origin. Black Legion.
391
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:26:00 -
[44] - Quote
Cedo Nulli wrote:They most likely had the FC qualities to begin with .. they only needed the game-wiki to be downloaded into their heads via the game.
I knew two of them when they were new, they were utterly awful. Two years later, they're pretty boss. |
Vordak Kallager
Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance
202
|
Posted - 2012.04.04 22:44:00 -
[45] - Quote
It's not Nature v. Nurture, its Nature and Nurture. Sa souvraya niende misain ye. |
ElQuirko
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
506
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 12:24:00 -
[46] - Quote
HEY RICK!
If we distribute pictures of people, does that mean God can file copyright claims under SOPA? |
Elsebeth Rhiannon
Gradient Electus Matari
229
|
Posted - 2012.04.06 12:57:00 -
[47] - Quote
I've known FCs who were good the first fleet they ever ran. But I've known many more who were utter crap for the first couple of months, and today are brilliant.
Then of course there's those who started crap and stayed so. But what separates them and the previous group is, in my experience, not so much some innate skill of FCing, but rather an innate skill of learning. The forever-crap ones seem to be mainly characterized by an unwillingness to hear suggestions, and lack of interest in analyzing what went well and what sucked at their previous fleets. |
Valkyrie D'ark
Armed Resistance Movement
3
|
Posted - 2012.04.25 07:58:00 -
[48] - Quote
Xi 'xar wrote:Take a couple of agony unleashed classes and then continue to fly with them as an allumni. Honestly, nothing taught me more about hearding cats than the incredible competence of their FCs.
^That. |
Dbars Grinding
Garoun Investment Bank Gallente Federation
477
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 00:54:00 -
[49] - Quote
every time i see a join rvb post i grind up a cat in my juicer and drink it. I have more space likes than you.-á |
Halete
Teraa Matar White-Lotus
91
|
Posted - 2012.04.26 03:54:00 -
[50] - Quote
Dbars Grinding wrote:every time i see a join rvb post i grind up a cat in my juicer and drink it.
Yep. Should be 'join Faction Warfare' so we can have less poorly-informed/outdated ideas about FW whizzing around the forums.
[/plug] Remembers, fly Frigates - Capsuleers are more tenacious than baseliner crews.-á |
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Typherian
Legio Invicta Many Reckless Corps
6
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 19:56:00 -
[51] - Quote
Simple advice from my experience fcing. There are fights and there are massacres. Learn how to spot a one sided bloodbath before it starts and then either avoid the confrontation or get out a mop to clean the field after you stomp someone flat. Hard fought wins are good.... Getting your fleet killed in a fight you could never win isn't fun. |
Daemon Ceed
Crushed Ambitions Reckless Ambition
67
|
Posted - 2012.04.27 21:16:00 -
[52] - Quote
Rick Galshin wrote: I've done a little solo nullsec PvP (with little success so far)
Wouldn't a bit of success in solo nullsec pvp be a good idea before you FC an even less successful group of noobs out to die in hilarious ways?
:popcorn:
Post with your main or GTFO! If I responded to your thread, you're probably getting trolled. |
Keno Skir
118
|
Posted - 2012.04.29 04:19:00 -
[53] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't.
Do not listen to this man. The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Hyperion Andromeda
State War Academy Caldari State
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 00:12:00 -
[54] - Quote
Greetings galactic capsuleers and veterans,
It has been a while since I ever played EVE online at all, but this discussion did caught my interest as I too am looking towards a certain "role" that I wish to fulfill at some point.
Here I read that one says, Quote: "No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't".
Where another says to not listen to that person.
In my opinion and point of view:
Fleet Commander is a leader. To lead one would need responsibility. The way you lead a fleet does differ especially from person to person if one would look at their ability to lead.
In life there are leaders and followers and in this I do strongly believe that having the responsibility and leading capacities come with being born with it or not.
However: To be a Fleet Commander one would need the neccessary experience within EVE Online in say PvP battles aswel as common sense and experience in the game itself.
The way I see it, and that would mean I have a long way to go myself, is that a Fleet Commander should be achieved when a player has at least been 6 months to a year in EVE online, especially because it takes alot of time and energy to get your way around in EVE online and it takes a strong will and a handful of not giving up in this game.
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Keno Skir
119
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 12:51:00 -
[55] - Quote
Leadership qualities are nice and you need them to persuade people to do what you say :P
The most charismatic commander in the world will lose his whole fleet if he hasn't learned about : (in no particular order)
- Enemy ship types (all of them) and what each one is capable of.
- Area in which you are operating- Know the names and layout of all surrounding systems in case you have to change plan or split the fleet. Also which rules you will be subject to during the patrol (gate guns, kill right counters or nulsec rules etc).
- Fleet construction - Know how to build a fleet both specific to one task and also varied enough to handle the unexpected.
- Pilots under your command - Where possible you should know each pilot in your gang / fleet. Knowledge or what everyone is capable of will help you assigning the right jobs to the right people.
- Supplies - Larger fleets may need ammo and other charges brought in by non combat pilots, not everyone in the fleet has to be shooting.
Logistics - Ships for healing other ships by way of transfer of Armor, Shields or Capacitor. Occasionally also used to provide tracking boosts or other combat boosters depending on the need of the gang / fleet.
- Scouts - Shuttle or frig/interceptor pilots should be on lookout a couple of jumps away from the fleet on as many sides as possible. Both for potential targets and avoidance of larger enemy fleets. (perfect role for new pilots as long as they are feeding their info to someone with a little more experience).
- Tacklers - Pilots willing to suicide (usually) a cheap ship in order to lock down a target for the dps ships. (perfect role for new pilots)
One quick last suggestion, as the FC do not be tempted into flying the most expensive ship in the gang / fleet. You will be primaried first, destroyed first and have to spend the rest of the fight offgrid unable to see what's going on. Your real power as the FC is in your words and the decisions you make, not the dps you are capable of laying down for your guys.
Probably missed a bunch, i'm not an experienced FC but the concept really interests me and it's one of the reasons i started EvE nearly a year ago :) The Apostle : I want a kangeroo Captain Kirk : Silly Austrians Sarmatiko : Let me guess: you're from US? Captain Kirk : Yeah Riverside IA - why? |
Bad Messenger
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
130
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 17:59:00 -
[56] - Quote
Flurk Hellbron wrote:No way just anyone can "learn" to be a good FC. You are it or you ain't.
that is not true |
Buzzy Warstl
The Strontium Asylum
136
|
Posted - 2012.05.01 22:39:00 -
[57] - Quote
Lock out wrote:Cedo Nulli wrote:
And seriously ... somebody wants to learn to be an FC and you copypaste a massive load of military books for him :D ... Very little one could learn from those for the FC job. Tbh ... if I learned that my FC read a pile of real world military books to become an FC .. id bail the fleet asap.
You mean Sun Tzu doesn't help you blow up madebelief spaceships ? Blasphemy ! Sun Tzu helps, but only if you understand what he wrote (and can translate from wisdom for real-world infantry and cavalry armies to a space game with made-up rules...) |
Aurelius Valentius
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
59
|
Posted - 2012.05.02 03:47:00 -
[58] - Quote
If you want a really easy way to learn some basic FC skills (and even sometimes pretty advanced ones - depending) - sign up for FW, stay in your NPC corp then, and drop into a JC (with crappy or no learning implants - combat clone is good - you can do this with corp standings with say an NPC corp if you want to.. I did mine with Carthum.
Then head over and pick up any and all FW fleet ops you can grab, you will have some fun and learn the basics of fleets and all that mess in a "shallow-end" of the pool, there isn't any real issue... now don't go saying now I am a PvP FC to people (or they will laugh)... but you will have a pretty good idea of how it works, rather like a bicycle with training wheels - pedel this, steer with this, etc... the basics, but it is a good primer, once you have done a number of these you will have some real world experience in managment of fleets in ops, and if you win a few lose a lot - you will learn all the UI and other functions, how it is to work with big(ger) groups of people with various levels of well skills, brains, etc.
From this you can then do the theory of FC with some practical experience - this alone will change your way of thinking, then if you decide this is for you - you have a basis to start from, and you will have a step-up from someone with no experience IF you decide then to jump in - your FC trainer will value that you know at least how to form a fleet, do all the UI and management and have some time in the seat, your record may be the same as George Washington's - lost most of the time, but you can certainly learn alot (as he did) with time and endurance.
I can say, that even if its just FC/boosting in an orca in a mining op, it is a craftmanship aspect, you get that down and you will always FC well, if you fail at the little things, you can never be expected to get the big things right. it's all about the Frame Rate... |
nasty1
R-.A.-G.-E
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.04 14:32:00 -
[59] - Quote
I have written something about the subject lol I have many years of experience.
Fleet Commanders Tips (50)
also while I'm here.
New to the Militia Tips (50)
new to the militia, first you need to know how to act in a fleet.
Disclaimer I don't pretend to be the best or the worst, I can't say it's easy or hard.
every fleet commander has their own style and every fleet commander is one special dude, they're very unique people indeed
To be able to stand up in front of a group of people still makes me nervous at the beginning, but I have no problem telling people to shut up in a more polite way then shut up.
Your fleet are the heroes, you provide a service and if you look at it this way and be humble and polite, respectful but stern, don't squeak too much and let people have fun, if you do this then that is three quarters of what it takes to be a good commander.
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Coolsmoke
State War Academy Caldari State
5
|
Posted - 2012.05.05 00:31:00 -
[60] - Quote
1) Be sober. 2) Don't Panic. 3) There is no spoon.
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Karn Dulake
Souls Must Be Trampled The.Alliance
643
|
Posted - 2012.05.06 16:15:00 -
[61] - Quote
If you want to be an FC the one thing that no one tells you is this;
Very Good FCs have high burn out rate.
You are in command of billions of isk worth of ships and if the **** hits the fan you are responsible.
You have to have thick skin as people will blame you lose.
People make massive demands on your time
Whenever you are on people want you to lead them so you cant play casually
Once you have burned out you will find yourself in a highsec system mining in a kestrel not accepting convoes and believing that this is the greatest thing you have ever done in this game. I dont normally troll, but when i do i do it on General Discussion. |
Bengal Bob
Angry Mustellid Iron Oxide.
27
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 13:27:00 -
[62] - Quote
nasty1 wrote:I have written something about the subject lol I have many years of experience. Fleet Commanders Tips (50)also while I'm here. New to the Militia Tips (50)new to the militia, first you need to know how to act in a fleet. Disclaimer I don't pretend to be the best or the worst, I can't say it's easy or hard. every fleet commander has their own style and every fleet commander is one special dude, they're very unique people indeed To be able to stand up in front of a group of people still makes me nervous at the beginning, but I have no problem telling people to shut up in a more polite way then shut up. Your fleet are the heroes, you provide a service and if you look at it this way and be humble and polite, respectful but stern, don't squeak too much and let people have fun, if you do this then that is three quarters of what it takes to be a good commander.
Nasty fleet best fleet.
Favourite fleet moment: Guys they have guardians so shoot everything, they can't rep everyone. We won Best nasty quote: Hang on guys, I have neuts, let me suck him off.
o/ nasty |
LT Alter
Fisty Fisting Fisters
6
|
Posted - 2012.05.08 17:53:00 -
[63] - Quote
Pursue it, every fleet needs a fleet commander. But don't blindly rush in to it, get all your bases covered, it's the FC's job to know what is going on in his fleet, what all his ships are capable of, what his pilots are capable of, what his enemy is capable of, and what ship is the primary which goes way beyond just shooting things with the least tank and the most gank. A good example is if you're in a laser intensive fleet and there is a t1 typhoon with a neut effect coming out it's nose sitting next to a any pure dps battleship you still want to get rid of the typhoon first. Speak your commands clearly in a comprehensive way to make sure there are no misheard instructions. People may say you can not just become a good FC by learning it, but it is not impossible nor implausible you just need to know what is going on and what to do, and yes there is a lot of it. Don't be afraid to call a retreat either if you know a fight will be lost. |
Jeyson Vicious
The Scope Gallente Federation
16
|
Posted - 2012.05.09 04:08:00 -
[64] - Quote
So Rick, it's been over a month. How is your fleet commander career developing?
Also your avatar looks like the best Gary Oldman. |
nasty1
R-.A.-G.-E
9
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 04:36:00 -
[65] - Quote
Bengal Bob wrote:nasty1 wrote:I have written something about the subject lol I have many years of experience. Fleet Commanders Tips (50)also while I'm here. New to the Militia Tips (50)new to the militia, first you need to know how to act in a fleet. Disclaimer I don't pretend to be the best or the worst, I can't say it's easy or hard. every fleet commander has their own style and every fleet commander is one special dude, they're very unique people indeed To be able to stand up in front of a group of people still makes me nervous at the beginning, but I have no problem telling people to shut up in a more polite way then shut up. Your fleet are the heroes, you provide a service and if you look at it this way and be humble and polite, respectful but stern, don't squeak too much and let people have fun, if you do this then that is three quarters of what it takes to be a good commander. Nasty fleet best fleet. Favourite fleet moment: Guys they have guardians so shoot everything, they can't rep everyone. We won Best nasty quote: Hang on guys, I have neuts, let me suck him off. o/ nasty
lol good times
That's reminded me, setting up target callers, target callers, target callers The best target callers have Bob in the name, calling targets is quite hard and you need to know your ships
It's a hard job calling targets, I wasn't very good at this and therefore asked somebody else to do it |
Abbadon21
Cosmic Cimmerians The G0dfathers
11
|
Posted - 2012.05.17 18:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
To be a FC you need to understand every part of PVP. From finding targets, to tackling, dps, ewar, logi, etc.
The best way to learn all of that is to first learn solo PVP, then once you know each role in a fleet inside out, you can lead others and have them perform those roles while you lead them.
Best advice... Solo PVP for a few months and get a good grasp of that, then start leading some small gangs and move from there. Learn How PRO Players Make Billions of ISK and Dominate PVP: http://www.EVEProGuides.com |
Tekitha
Shadows Of The Federation Drunk 'n' Disorderly
25
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 04:22:00 -
[67] - Quote
Abbadon21 wrote:To be a FC you need to understand every part of PVP. From finding targets, to tackling, dps, ewar, logi, etc.
The best way to learn all of that is to first learn solo PVP, then once you know each role in a fleet inside out, you can lead others and have them perform those roles while you lead them.
Best advice... Solo PVP for a few months and get a good grasp of that, then start leading some small gangs and move from there.
I disagree entirely. Every decent FC I know is a terrible solo pilot, and every great solo pilot I know either doesn't FC at all or is bad at it ... They are two entirely different concepts and mindsets.
Learning to solo pvp won't particularly help your ability to FC, flying in fleets and taking part in larger battles will teach you infinitely more. Honestly the best way to learn / improve at FCing is scouting for a larger fleet ... A scout has similar responsibilities and needs similar awareness to an FC, as well as the ability to filter and process information appropriately (the single most important skill for FCing imho). |
Vanell Draeko
LightningStrikesTwice Elemental Tide
0
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 12:37:00 -
[68] - Quote
You ( your avatar ) look like Mickey Rourke. |
Suleiman Shouaa
The Tuskers
64
|
Posted - 2012.05.18 18:23:00 -
[69] - Quote
Just a heads up, most of the advice here (including from the "read Art of War to get into the mindsight of FCing" genius) is geared at medium-large gang FCing, where people are just expected to press F1/F2/check broadcasts etc.
In small gangs, the situation is radically different; it's effectively an extension of solo pvping, except you have X clients open simultaneously, with each of them having their own voice.
Communication between every fleet member at this size is pretty crucial, as well as everyone knowing how to perform independantly without being told to shoot X, Y, Z whilst aligning to X.
So, if you want to become good at small gang FCing, try solo pvping. Take the knowledge, experience and decisiveness you've acquired from doing so and apply it in a <5 man gang and you'll be surprised at how things will "click" into place. |
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