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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ichinomiya Chiaki
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:51:00 -
[181]
/signed
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Leto Becken
Blue Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 04:20:00 -
[182]
 Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 17/10/2008 02:17:50
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about. 
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
I have no alts. I'm not so much ****ed off at the fact that I won't be able to ghost train Cald BS 5 so I could use the Raven better, I'm ****ed at the fact that CCP is acting like EA. Power of 2, 30-d GTC, Removal of Ghost training, CCP made a plan for this to leech as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
Also, asking me not to train skills is like asking me not to paint my house because I can't be arsed to watch the paint dry while I could be doing something else.
*sigh* This is simple really, I promise.
To play you pay. PvPing is playing, PvE is playing, and market PvP is playing.
Skill training is also playing. Prove it otherwise.
If you want to get better at any of the above things you have to train skills. Don't tell me you don't enjoy seeing "completion imminent" on that 30+ day skill. That is playing. If CCP made a game where all you did was train skills, and whoever had the most was best, you'd be playing.
If skill training isn't playing, you would stop training as soon as you felt your character is where you want him to be skill wise. If it's not playing, then there is no enjoyment of ghost training that 30+ day skill, and why bother?
But I'll agree, CCP's business practices are sketchy. If that is what everyone is "canceling" their accounts about, I don't blame them. If it's because they can no longer scam CCP out of cash so that they can train 6 alts while only paying the equivalent of 2 full time, well tbh I don't care and their tears taste so sweet.
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Flinchey
Amarr
ANZAC ALLIANCE
Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.17 09:03:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 17/10/2008 02:17:50
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky
Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about.
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
I have no alts. I'm not so much ****ed off at the fact that I won't be able to ghost train Cald BS 5 so I could use the Raven better, I'm ****ed at the fact that CCP is acting like EA. Power of 2, 30-d GTC, Removal of Ghost training, CCP made a plan for this to leech as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
Also, asking me not to train skills is like asking me not to paint my house because I can't be arsed to watch the paint dry while I could be doing something else.
*sigh* This is simple really, I promise.
To play you pay. PvPing is playing, PvE is playing, and market PvP is playing.
Skill training is also playing. Prove it otherwise.
If you want to get better at any of the above things you have to train skills. Don't tell me you don't enjoy seeing "completion imminent" on that 30+ day skill. That is playing. If CCP made a game where all you did was train skills, and whoever had the most was best, you'd be playing.
If skill training isn't playing, you would stop training as soon as you felt your character is where you want him to be skill wise. If it's not playing, then there is no enjoyment of ghost training that 30+ day skill, and why bother?
But I'll agree, CCP's business practices are sketchy. If that is what everyone is "canceling" their accounts about, I don't blame them. If it's because they can no longer scam CCP out of cash so that they can train 6 alts while only paying the equivalent of 2 full time, well tbh I don't care and their tears taste so sweet.
6 alts. they'd have to be running them 50/50
so thats 3 full time subs CCP just lost. 3 down to 0. what would you prefer as a business?
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:36:00 -
[184]
they seem to have stopped the server graph from working, maby so you can't look at the huge dip in people online.
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Simen123
modro
CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:30:00 -
[185]
make it worth returning after a break
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.17 20:30:00 -
[186]
bump, got 2 keep this thread going 
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Wentau
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Posted - 2008.10.18 01:18:00 -
[187]
Though i think losing the Ghost training sucks, i never really did understand how one could get benefits from the game without paying for it.
HOWEVER,
a skill queue is only fair now. Please everyone go to this link and voice your support for a skill queue if you are also upset about the loss of the Ghost training:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897766
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CCP Applebabe
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Posted - 2008.10.18 02:49:00 -
[188]
Please keep the discussion to the relevant thread here.
Applebabe
Community Representative
CCP Games, EVE Online
Email / Netfang
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Oli Robbo
Galactic Defence Syndicate
Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.20 11:14:00 -
[189]
So I'm a student who can't play/get a connection 24/7, naturally i set a long skill while i'm away [and in which time my account usually goes inactive] now thanks to the 'brilliant bug fix' My skills won't finish/ I have nothing worth coming back to.
Please explain how this is 'balancing' the game mechanics?
CCP is Bankrupt. Fact.
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Irongut
M'8'S
Frontal Impact
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Posted - 2008.10.20 17:17:00 -
[190]
Training an account that you don't pay for is cheating imo. I'm glad CCP removed this way for you to gain an unfair advantage over people who actually pay for all their accounts.
Imo CSM should congratulate CCP for taking this action and ask why they didn't do it sooner.
--
The future is Black. Brace for Impact! |
NereSky
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:17:00 -
[191]
Nice to see this has been unlocked - thankyou
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:22:00 -
[192]
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Venezia Dawn
The VD Clinic
Violent-Tendencies
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:29:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Venezia Dawn on 20/10/2008 18:29:02
Edit:
Will have to consolidate accounts if this change continues to be implemented. :( |
Hitman 001
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:30:00 -
[194]
as i said if this goes tro -2 accounts.
i always come back , cos i like this game, but its BS that it is a "bug" after 5 years
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Gunnanmon
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 18:44:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 20/10/2008 18:44:11
/signed
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Davina Braben
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:08:00 -
[196]
VOTE.
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Brother Welcome
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
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Posted - 2008.10.20 19:34:00 -
[197]
In support of OP.
I'd love to see some official numbers so that other solutions might be found and considered.
-vk
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Janus Duo
Down In Flames
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:32:00 -
[198]
Dumbest idea by CCP since GTC price hike.
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Thargorr
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.10.20 20:33:00 -
[199]
Ghost training will lose CCP money, not get them more.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:16:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Brother Welcome
In support of OP.
I'd love to see some official numbers so that other solutions might be found and considered.
-vk
I doubt the true effect of this farce will be known for 1 to 3 months. Once people have stuck 30 or 60 days on expired accounts, waited for 29 days, then transferred chars to other accounts.
The Ghost-training vote thread |
Takarr Drayke
The Markovian Group
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:29:00 -
[201]
I'm deployed, an have no issues paying to skill whether I can play or not.
I'm all for the removal of Ghosting. It was a great move, and looooong overdue. Should have been in effect before carriers/moms/titans.
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oilio
State War Academy
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:33:00 -
[202]
Edited by: oilio on 20/10/2008 21:34:21
I have never used Ghost Training (a phrase which didn't exist until CCP recently invented it) on either of my accounts. I never had any intention to do so.
I do, however see the merits of it and it seemed like a great part of the service - another thing that set eve apart from all the other games.
In order for someone to gain any benefit from "Ghost Training", they had to resubscribe. These are repeat customers.
I think the decision to remove it was bad, overall, but that is AS NOTHING compared to the way CCP handled it. In some ways similar to the handling of the T20 incident.
In this case, they do something very unpopular which effectively downgrades the service people were used to for five years, then they pull any amount of garbage from thin air to explian why they did it... "bug", "unintended", "a balance issue"...
then they massively censor anyone who tries to complain about it.
This is hot on the heels of the GTC price-hike that was dressed up as being "more efficient" to have only 60 day cards... which suddenly cost more than two 30 day cards... but that's because Eve is a "Premium Product", apparently.
In neither case (GTC or Ghost Training) did they mention trying to maximise revenues - no hint of that at all. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE
R-I-P
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Posted - 2008.10.20 21:52:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Takarr Drayke
I'm deployed, an have no issues paying to skill whether I can play or not.
I'm all for the removal of Ghosting. It was a great move, and looooong overdue. Should have been in effect before carriers/moms/titans.
It wasn't, so let's penalise those that haven't trained up Carrier 5 yet.
BTW, anyone wanna buy a char with Carrier 5, Fighters 5, Adv Drone Inter 5, Command Ships 5, to name but a few of the stupidly long ones, trained?
The Ghost-training vote thread |
NereSky
Gallente
Trinity Nova
Trinity Nova Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:00:00 -
[204]
This was quite a interesting post on the blog thread by Gutta Percha post no 4572;
Quoting;
It's time to put this "bug" crap to rest once and for all.
As a programmer of 45+ years I can see very clearly that this was never a bug. In fact, it had been the simplest, most elegant implementation of time-based "training" possible:
For the type of training Eve has had, several fields were added to the char info in the database:
Current Skill: [database key of the skill]
Completion date/time: [date/time]
Any number of individual skill records subordinate to the char store the ID of each skill and the SP or percentage of "progress." The subordinate record for the current skill tracked in the char info doesn't have to be updated until examined at the next login, and then either set to "completed" or "100%", and then only if the skill step has been "completed."
If a skill is not actively paused, the static completion date/time means that a waiting period is being imposed. The skill step can only be used after the waiting period has expired. In reality, it's not "training" -- it's a wait. And not even a game wait. It's an out-of-game calendar wait.
Note that an entry in the database of a completion date/time requires no work. There is no actual ongoing process of "training." Rather, in the mechanics of the game, the training completion is a foregone conclusion that will be discovered at some future time when the Eve client connects and discovers that the date/time for completion has passed.
Meanwhile, the apparency of ongoing training... the countdown and progress bar in the Char Sheet... are illusions created in the Eve client.
This mechanism for managing training that works by calendar/clock time instead of in-game actions is elegant. It requires no work or effort on the part of the servers. In fact, the server cluster could go up in smoke, a new cluster could be built over the course of days, weeks or a month, and in the end no "training" will have been lost because the "training" is not a process but merely a recorded completion date/time.
Now... an elegant mechanism like this is automatically going to "train" while you are offline and, yes, while you are unsubscribed. Nothing is given away for free. Everything needed has been paid for and done under an active subscription, and only the calendar waiting period must run its course before the skill step can be used. And then only if you actually log in again.
This elegant mechanism was designed this way to minimize the impact of training on the servers. It's beautiful. Anything different would be inelegant and probablly horrible.
So now they have broken that elegant mechanism by the addition of new code... code that forcibly puts a skill into the "paused" state when an account is marked as inactive. This is more work for the servers than before. It is more work for the database than before. It is less elegant, less perfect, and wholly artificial.
CCP is now penalizing us for something that formerly cost them nothing, and in doing so are going to extra effort, going out of their way to set training steps to a paused state. In effect they seek to charge us for a calendar waiting period for a skill we have already paid for and had to be active and online to initiate.
End quote
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:15:00 -
[205]
I didn't use this "feature" but it is one of the things that separated EVE from every other shitty MMO out there and made it a unique experience.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:37:00 -
[206]
thanks for unlocking this VOTING thread.
...which means ofc (directed to the posters) please keep this thread free of discussion on the topic because thats basically why it got locked.
ccp wants the discussion to be kept in the according thread here which should be obeyed (they even managed to unhide it, so please do them this favor - even if you disagree with the change and/or the communication of the change) |
Aganola
Amarr
Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:46:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Aganola on 20/10/2008 22:47:55
A big and sound
NO to the Ghost-train nerf!!!
From my point of view: they just robbed me of my hobby!
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aquo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:51:00 -
[208]
As a .NET Solutions Architect (among other things), I have to agree with the post two above. And indeed, if it was written any other way, it would be simple to merge the solution above into the current codebase.
And if CCP are too thick to do it that way, it explains Jita.
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DogSlime
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:05:00 -
[209]
Bad PR by CCP - both in removing the training
...and in the way they tried to bullshit about the motives.
...and in the way they have dealt with people complaining about it. |
deathlords
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Posted - 2008.10.21 00:26:00 -
[210]
Glad I did not do that Power of Two!
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