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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:39:00 -
[1]
I do not see how the ability to train skill during account inactivity is a so called advantage. I strongly incourage a rethinking of this idea.
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Khwalik
Ghetto Kings
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Posted - 2008.10.13 17:39:00 -
[2]
I do not see how the ability to train skill during account inactivity is a so called advantage. I strongly incourage a rethinking of this idea.
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Leto Becken
Blue Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:15:00 -
[3]
It's not advantageous to train a 30+ day skill without having to pay for the game?
Skill training is part of the game. To play the game, you pay. To train skills, you pay.
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Furb Killer
Gallente The Scope
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:17:00 -
[4]
Good change, pay if you want to train your skills. Use your alt in a blackbird till you got him trained up for falcon
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Orion Moonstar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:30:00 -
[5]
**** ccp, if they take this feature out I'm not playing this game anymore
http://www.dariusjohnson.org/dec20bobts.mp3 http://www.daitengu.com/ohgod/dec20bobts.mp3 |
Leto Becken
Blue Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.13 18:32:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Orion Moonstar **** ccp, if they take this feature out I'm not playing this game anymore
Thank you CCP.
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Verone
Gallente Veto Corp
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[7]
Removing ghost training is a good thing.
People pay to play, why should people be rewarded for not paying? It makes no sense.
The change is good in my opinion.
\o/ EON FICTION WRITER OF THE YEAR! \o/
>>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<< |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:03:00 -
[8]
Edited by: Malcanis on 13/10/2008 19:06:38 Edited by: Malcanis on 13/10/2008 19:04:10 This change will lose CCP some of my money. Ghost training isn't something I and most others do instead of playing, it's something we did as well as playing.
The exception is people who HAVE to be away from EvE for a while. That consoling phrase "Oh well... at least you can set a long skill mate" will no longer be there to encourage them to return.
They can have my cash for 2 accounts or the can have my cash for 2 accounts + 2 ghost training accounts = about 50% more. Their choice, really.
EDIT: as for the mythical and never proven "character farming" - what the eff? They just spent a year giving ISK farmers every possible buff and protection, now we're supposed to think they care so much about character farming?
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Praxis1452
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:17:00 -
[9]
just because it's refreshing to come back into the game with a nice new skill when you've taken a break for a couple months. -------------------------------------------- ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it" |
Damien Cerverus
Dawn of a new Empire The Initiative.
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:22:00 -
[10]
its ok ccp, make sure that people who quit the game stay quit :)
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Triest
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
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Posted - 2008.10.13 19:33:00 -
[11]
I'm sure they'll get right on reversing the changes due to this thread.
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Praxis1452
Chaos Reborn
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:44:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Triest I'm sure they'll get right on reversing the changes due to this thread.
Well.. just for the record. for the good it does. -------------------------------------------- ôHe who must expend his life to prolong life cannot enjoy it, and he who is still seeking for his life does not have it and can as little enjoy it" |
Etien Aldragoran
DarkStar 1 GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:45:00 -
[13]
I will no renew my subscription to my third account if this goes through.
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Qeng Nuwen
Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.13 20:46:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Triest I'm sure they'll get right on reversing the changes due to this thread.
But but but, the CSM isnt just a powerless circlejerk right? RIGHT!?!?!
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.13 21:30:00 -
[15]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 13/10/2008 21:30:25 I can clearly see why its a serious advantage of training up your char while not paying for your account.
Heck I'd call it an exploit.
CCP loses money over such things.... because your ganking them out of there hard earned money in supporting this game.
That's like saying I'll train _____ level V which takes over 30 days and not pay for one month of EVE online.
And then come back and reactivate the account and start paying for it but they dont get the one month back.
That's cheating the system.
Convenient or not.... I support CCP in there decision. If your not going to pay for your account... there should be a count down timer then everything on your account should just flat freeze. (Glorified pause button)
When re-activated the account should pick up where it left off.
As for the timer? 48 hours or something... not too long to make it abuse-able... but long enough for someone to figure out where to get the cash to pay for it again.
Sorry folks... but putting a stop to an exploitable feature is something I want to see. People who pay for this game pay to play it and train there char's on it. If your not going to play the game just to train up your char... you shouldn't be able to train up your char by NOT playing the game for extended periods of time.
/me emphatic thumbs down
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Cosy Ceaon
Aliastra
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:13:00 -
[16]
4 days left until account canceled still left 33 days skill training the new RickRoll is here |
SysFin
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Posted - 2008.10.13 22:37:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Malcanis as for the mythical and never proven "character farming" - what the eff? They just spent a year giving ISK farmers every possible buff and protection, now we're supposed to think they care so much about character farming?
Originally by: Praxis1452 just because it's refreshing to come back into the game with a nice new skill when you've taken a break for a couple months.
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Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2008.10.13 23:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon 4 days left until account canceled still left 4 days skill training
Corrected that for you.
I see nothing wrong with this change. Why should people who aren't playing the game benefit equally to those who actually pay to play? Makes sense that if an account goes inactive, training should too.
-- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
rycar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:07:00 -
[19]
/support
seriously, wtf CCP
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Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:21:00 -
[20]
Ok Imma sum up all the reasons why ending "Ghost Training" is dumb right here so people can refer to them all in one big tl;dr:
1. It has been referred to as a feature of the game.
See any of the twenty posts in the first pages of the Dev Blog discussion thread for a link to the Player Guide. Obviously, in addition to being a contributing factor to people subscribing to the game (the cancellation of which will obviously result in canceled accounts and possible loss of future customers), this also spells out that CCP is being intentionally deceitful as to their reasons for terminating "Ghost Training."
2. Because a player works in Eve to make money, not to gain skill points, there is no undue advantage provided to inactive accounts.
In Eve, skill points are acquired by clicking a button, then coming back in a few days to click another button and train a different skill. There is no hard work involved. Instead, work in Eve is used to acquire ISK, which can even be used to bypass the timesink that is skill training by purchasing more advanced characters. A good metaphor is that of two players, Todd and Frank. Todd lets his account lapse training Carrier V, while Frank keeps it subscribed while training the same skill. However, over the course of a month, Frank works hard to earn Isk. At the end of the month, both characters can fly a carrier, but Frank, having worked hard and paid his subscription, actually has the carrier.
3. CCP gains more money from the subscriptions of multiple sporadically subscribed "Ghost Training" accounts than a single perpetually subscribed account.
This one is simple math: let's return to Todd and Frank. Todd runs two accounts over a year, both of which are lapsed and "Ghost Training" for three months out of the year, while Frank runs a single account subscribed for the entire year. Assuming they both pay in one month intervals of 14.99 per month:
Todd's Accounts: 179.40 * 0.75 * 2 = 269.10 Frank's Account: 179.40 * 1.00 * 1 = 179.40
Therefore, in addition to not being played for three months out of the year (thus reducing strain on CCP's servers, however little), Todd's two "Ghost Training" accounts bring in more money than Frank's single perma-subscribed account.
There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.
Further TL;DR:
Preventing "Ghost Training" is bad for CCP. Many accounts are cancelled and some accounts are never created at all, resulting in less money.
Preventing "Ghost Training" is bad for players. The true advantage in "Ghost Training" is given to permanently subscribed players, who are constantly earning Isk and making more money than "Ghost Training" players, while gaining skill points at the same rate.
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Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:33:00 -
[21]
Edited by: Moustache McGee on 14/10/2008 00:33:14
Originally by: Becq Starforged
Originally by: Cosy Ceaon 4 days left until account canceled still left 4 days skill training
Corrected that for you.
I see nothing wrong with this change. Why should people who aren't playing the game benefit equally to those who actually pay to play? Makes sense that if an account goes inactive, training should too.
And a quick counterpoint: people who pay to play the game have one massive, distinct benefit over someone who isn't paying: They get to play the game. I pay to play Spaceships Online, not ProgressBar Online. It's not as equal as one would think.
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Vaal Erit
Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:35:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Leto Becken
Skill training is part of the game. To play the game, you pay. To train skills, you pay.
This.
Also, I read the player guide as this is the how the game works, NOT "This is how it is intended" or "This is not a bug".
CCP has ALWAYS reserved the right to change anything about their game.
For example: I will use POS bowling, as it was ok then declared illegal. If POS bowling was in a player guide, it wouldn't mean that POS bowling was intended, but merely that is how people played the game and that is was doable and a normal tactic. When POS bowling was declared illegal, said hypothetical POS bowling player guide entry would be amended or deleted. Seems like a normal thing to do.
Once again, you are twisting a simple factual statement in the player guide and making assumptions on it. It is simply stating what is possible, not what is supposed to be. --
http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html
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Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:40:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Moustache McGee on 14/10/2008 00:47:12 Edited by: Moustache McGee on 14/10/2008 00:42:58
Originally by: Vaal Erit
Originally by: Leto Becken
Skill training is part of the game. To play the game, you pay. To train skills, you pay.
This.
Also, I read the player guide as this is the how the game works, NOT "This is how it is intended" or "This is not a bug".
CCP has ALWAYS reserved the right to change anything about their game.
For example: I will use POS bowling, as it was ok then declared illegal. If POS bowling was in a player guide, it wouldn't mean that POS bowling was intended, but merely that is how people played the game and that is was doable and a normal tactic. When POS bowling was declared illegal, said hypothetical POS bowling player guide entry would be amended or deleted. Seems like a normal thing to do.
Once again, you are twisting a simple factual statement in the player guide and making assumptions on it. It is simply stating what is possible, not what is supposed to be.
I'd say it's a pretty reasonable assumption that, when CCP lists information in a Player Guide, it's done so so that players can then use it. As it stands, CCP is suggesting that "Ghost Training" was always an unintended bug - essentially, an exploit, in the same vein as POS Bowling. However, unlike "Ghost Training," POS Bowling has never been used to sell accounts, nor has it been specifically cited in a Player Guide.
Which is the bigger leap: that information is there with the intention of being used and cataloged as a feature, or that a known exploit would be listed for years?
Edit: Looking back on my post I see it's a lot of circular-reasoning words based on the fact that Vaal's assumption is completely unfounded, here let me sum it up better:
"No guys we're just writing all about it here so you know what it is no we don't want you actually to use it NO STOP WHAT HAVE YOU DONE *ignores it for a few years*"
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:43:00 -
[24]
This was a change that needed to be made, and I say that as someone who exploited the hell out of the old system(Gallente Cruiser V, Drone Interfacing V, Gallente Battleship V, and Advanced Weapon Upgrades V were all trained by me while unpaid). It was a system I used to good effect, but that doesn't change that it was a bad system.
The one thing I look forward to especially is that this removes one(dumb, but still frequently used) argument against skill queues. No, skill queues will not allow a player to come back to a maxed-out dreadnought pilot after a one-month subscription and three years of waiting. ------------------ Herschel's Lottery #1 - Win a Kronos! |
Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Moustache McGee on 14/10/2008 00:45:41
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
The one thing I look forward to especially is that this removes one(dumb, but still frequently used) argument against skill queues. No, skill queues will not allow a player to come back to a maxed-out dreadnought pilot after a one-month subscription and three years of waiting.
The thing is that the only reason skill queues may be added after the removal of Ghost Training is to appease an angry player base, not because removing Ghost Training was a prerequisite of establishing a queue (hint: clear the queue when an account is canceled, problem solved). If an argument is dumb, CCP shouldn't even think about using it as justification.
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Vladina Krematoria
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:45:00 -
[26]
when you can sell a character for billions of isk that you have been training forever without having to pay is well broken. i do understand that for those people who simply cant pay for whhatever reason..well it could be worse..you could altogether lose that character..it would be within ccp's rights to do so..The fact that ccp has allowed this for 5 years and almost promoted it as a desirable feature is the real problem here.
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Biscuit0
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:50:00 -
[27]
I don't want to see this go and I approve of Moustache McGee's message. |
Sarin Adler
Dark Shadow Cartel
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:52:00 -
[28]
This change is useless and unnecessary.
---
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Herschel Yamamoto
Bloodmoney Incorporated
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Posted - 2008.10.14 00:53:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Moustache McGee
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The one thing I look forward to especially is that this removes one(dumb, but still frequently used) argument against skill queues. No, skill queues will not allow a player to come back to a maxed-out dreadnought pilot after a one-month subscription and three years of waiting.
The thing is that the only reason skill queues may be added after the removal of Ghost Training is to appease an angry player base, not because removing Ghost Training was a prerequisite of establishing a queue (hint: clear the queue when an account is canceled, problem solved). If an argument is dumb, CCP shouldn't even think about using it as justification.
I didn't claim CCP used the argument. I don't recall them ever doing so. Fools on the forums used that argument. It doesn't make a huge difference that they can't, but it's nice to see it go away nonetheless.
And I'd like to see queues be implemented on the grounds that they should have been there since beta, but I'll take what I can get. ------------------ Herschel's Lottery #1 - Win a Kronos! |
Moustache McGee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:04:00 -
[30]
Edited by: Moustache McGee on 14/10/2008 01:04:37
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto
Originally by: Moustache McGee
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto The one thing I look forward to especially is that this removes one(dumb, but still frequently used) argument against skill queues. No, skill queues will not allow a player to come back to a maxed-out dreadnought pilot after a one-month subscription and three years of waiting.
The thing is that the only reason skill queues may be added after the removal of Ghost Training is to appease an angry player base, not because removing Ghost Training was a prerequisite of establishing a queue (hint: clear the queue when an account is canceled, problem solved). If an argument is dumb, CCP shouldn't even think about using it as justification.
I didn't claim CCP used the argument. I don't recall them ever doing so. Fools on the forums used that argument. It doesn't make a huge difference that they can't, but it's nice to see it go away nonetheless.
And I'd like to see queues be implemented on the grounds that they should have been there since beta, but I'll take what I can get.
To quote Wrangler in the stickied CSM meeting thread:
Originally by: CCP Wrangler Noah (CCP) indicated CCPÆs awareness of the player frustrations with the ~6 hour duration skill trainings. However, CCP strongly believes that switching skill training is an activity that encourages players to log into the game and play. A skill queue would be a possible solution, if there would be limitations, such as a limited amount of skills being trained, or that only skills of a total up to a certain duration can be stacked into the queue.
So I don't think you're gonna be getting that queue any time soon regardless, seeing as how you logging in and working hard to get those skills switched is one of the reasons subscribers are supposed to have an advantage over Ghost Trainers. If CCP's been unable to find a good system for implementing a queue, Ghost Training's removal will have absolutely nothing to do with it.
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Joss Sparq
ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 01:22:00 -
[31]
After reading the blog and both related threads, I'm against the change.
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Raquel Trotter
Trotters Independent Trading
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:18:00 -
[32]
Gonna cancel my alt and just run 1 account now.
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Garott
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Posted - 2008.10.14 02:20:00 -
[33]
Kill it in order to save the company, or don't, I don't really care. It'll be fun to watch idiots go broke.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 03:39:00 -
[34]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 14/10/2008 03:41:44 (Disclaimer: I do not have an alt, I have not played in 3 months and have been paying the whole time.)
Dear CCP,
Get off your lazy asses and deal with the ISK Farmers (read: anyone name "xghgjsfdj" or similarly) in-game instead of killing your profits with your flawed marketing moves.
Sincerely,
- The people who are about to give their stuff (or not, lol) to someone else.
P.S. Fire the r3tards in marketing.
Now instead of getting $15 every other month or so from alt owners or even people who take breaks once in a while, they'll get nothing! BRILLIANT!
If this goes through, I'm going to jettison every. single. corpse I have right outside Jita 4-4 right before I cancel my account.
_
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.14 04:02:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Orion Moonstar **** ccp, if they take this feature out I'm not playing this game anymore
Yes, thank you CCP !!!!
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Seth Ruin
Ominous Corp Ethereal Dawn
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:08:00 -
[36]
"Bug" or not, something that has been in the game this long that this many players feel strongly about should not be changed.
-- (CCP Inconsistency) |
Lady Bollocknose
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:20:00 -
[37]
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Jade Constantine
Gallente Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:46:00 -
[38]
No support here. I really don't see whats wrong with asking people to pay their subscriptions while training skills.
... nothing ever burns down by itself
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 06:55:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
No support here. I really don't see whats wrong with asking people to pay their subscriptions while training skills.
Less money for them is what's wrong. That and I can't take a break for a month to train a 30 day skills after paying the 3 months before training all the 3-12 day skills for it. Not only are people most likely NOT coming back after taking said break, there are far more pressing matters at hand like ISK Farmers, lag, and fixing the UI, but no, let's "fix" the ghost training instead, in a feeble, yet flawed attempt at making more money.
I'd like to meet the dev that though this was a good idea, so I could give him a nice punt kick in the ass with my steel toed boots. _
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Ankhesentapemkah
Gallente Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[40]
It has pros and cons really, if you look at the big picture.
People that have to go away from Eve had something to return for, their long-run skill finishing.
On the other hand there are people creating a bunch of alts while strategically letting them lapse until they're ready to, like, be sold off or gather research points (while the account is not paid for either).
I understand CCPs reasons, but I think the problem is inherent in the way the skill system is done, in that there is no way to progress your character in game, no way to catch up with older players, and spending your first month only training those darned learning skills. Of course, whatever is changed to the skill system now is going to result in a whine just as big as this one is.
In it's current form, all of this sounds like a money grab.
Thats why I want two things from CCP in return for this nerf:
30 Day Gametime Codes back NOW! A skill queue! ---
Thanks for all that supported me. Let me know if there's anything I can do for you.
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Miyamoto Shigesuke
Jugis Modo Utopia Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:13:00 -
[41]
This will only make quitters not come back any more.
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Shianeer Salvan
Jugis Modo Utopia Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:15:00 -
[42]
Good move to make less subcribers :)
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Chani Moonkeeper
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:17:00 -
[43]
Maybe you should delete inactive accounts too :) |
MyDoctor
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Posted - 2008.10.14 09:24:00 -
[44]
Edited by: MyDoctor on 14/10/2008 09:26:15 The skillsystem was one of the main reasons I played eve. If I have to pay for looking at the progress bar, then I can go and play WoW too, it's the same there
Thanks CCP, after 3 years in the game I'm fed up
EDIT: and btw, why aren't you disabling multi-accounting too? I think it's a bug too
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Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:14:00 -
[45]
ITs a good move to remove the train while you don't pay ability. It never made a lot of sense, and really only benefits the experienced alt-multiple-account crowd, widening the gap between casual and dedicated players even further.
It is a poor move to do so after (by their own words) many people started to use this feature. If the game has this bug for so long, so much that many players start actively using it to their benefit, you will **** off a lot of people if you suddenly remove the feature.
More of a pro-active and less of a re-active policy would work wonders for PR in that respect.
____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Merdaneth
Amarr PIE Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 10:22:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah
I understand CCPs reasons, but I think the problem is inherent in the way the skill system is done, in that there is no way to progress your character in game, no way to catch up with older players, and spending your first month only training those darned learning skills. Of course, whatever is changed to the skill system now is going to result in a whine just as big as this one is.
Actually, my prediction for the future (especially if EVE does not increase its rate of growth) is that the pool of older characters for sale will grow and grow, and thus will get cheaper and cheaper. More and more beginning players would be tempted to sell a couple of GTC's and buy these characters. Thus the proportion high-SP characters and low-SP characters will continue to shift, effectively making low-SP players an (insignificant) minority and the need to buy characters greater and greater.
All these people who might decide to discontinue some of their accounts/alts, some might decide to try and sell them or even move them to their main accounts, increasing the amount of available high-SP's. ____
The Illusion of Freedom | The Truth about Slavery |
Cpt Branko
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:51:00 -
[47]
Originally by: MyDoctor Edited by: MyDoctor on 14/10/2008 09:27:12 The skillsystem was one of the main reasons I played eve. If I have to pay for looking at the progress bar, then I can go and play WoW too, it's the same there
LOL.
I love EvE's skill system because it doesn't require me to gridn.
The fact that non-paying accounts still had skill training going on always struck me as more of a bug then anything else.
I mean, seriously, what is the fuss about? Yeah, it forces you to pay for the 4 alt accounts all training skills who you don't play, but I don't see anything wrong with that. For accounts you play on, you're going to keep them subscribed and actually play the game.
Sig removed, inappropriate link. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Malcanis
RuffRyders Axiom Empire
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Posted - 2008.10.14 11:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Jade Constantine
No support here. I really don't see whats wrong with asking people to pay their subscriptions while training skills.
How about making the change at only 48 hours notice, directly after running a promotion to encourage people to start a second account.
And then lying about why they did it.
And then lying about it being a bug.
And then deleting proof that they lied.
Do you see what's wrong with those?
I'm mildly peeved about losing ghost training; I won't bother with my dread alt any more; CCP will lose the 3 or 4 1-month subscriptions it would have taken to train him and and the 20 euro transfer fee and I won't get a dread alt to help support my alliance. CCP and I both lose out here. I guess I'll have that account as insurance in case anything happens to one of my mains, or maybe I'll win the lottery and have the time and money to manage another active account. Who knows.
I'm absolutely incensed by the high-handed, dishonest and extremely disrespectful way in the way that CCP removed ghost training. First we were fed some utter guff about "game balance" and "complaints", then they tried to claim that inactive characters place a high load on the database , then an outright lie that ghost training was a bug - many times disproven, including with a screen shot of Wrangler's OWN FORUM POST advising players of this feature, I mean "bug", and finally they grudgingly semi-admitted that they just want the money.
We were lied to. We were treated like idiots, and told it was for our own good. We were lied to again. Dishonesty and disrespect are the issues here.
Frankly this affair has destroyed what little faith I had left that CCP have a long term interest in EvE. My characters represent a very considerable investment for me, and now I'm wondering if I should realise that investment while it's still worth anything.
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Hypan
Zebra Corp Chain of Chaos
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:06:00 -
[49]
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:14:00 -
[50]
And this crap comes in just as im about to start lv5 BS which takes 37 fricken days. They take years to sort somthing out for jita then they take a few days to think, hmm i could make more money out of people who cant be arsed waiting for a skill that takes over a month to do. Any think that improves the game they take ages to do, things that make it worse takes a week.
C*NTS
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Suitonia
interimo
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Posted - 2008.10.14 12:19:00 -
[51]
Against the ghost training.
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Gajowy
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Posted - 2008.10.14 13:10:00 -
[52]
Well im not happy with this change, but it was rather predictable, island gone bankrupt and ccp is going to leech money from customers in every possible way
|
Oncely Magnanimous
Amarr Royal Amarr Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:14:00 -
[53]
canceling my 5 accounts as soon as they open the Account Management section back up.
|
Wolf Soldier
Neh'bu Kau Beh'Hude Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:17:00 -
[54]
|
Marfew Jae
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:44:00 -
[55]
Supporting this despite the fact that CCP won't change their minds.
I'm actually pretty disgusted that CCP tried to palm this off as a Bug Fix.
|
Todoshi
Caldari Logistics and Supplies
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 13:48:00 -
[56]
Signed
|
Astria Tiphareth
24th Imperial Crusade
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:05:00 -
[57]
Edited by: Astria Tiphareth on 14/10/2008 14:05:48 This sets a dangerous precedent. What's next on inactive accounts? RP? Market Orders? Contracts? Research slots? Manufacturing slots?
Will NPC slots be forever taken if someone lapses an account? Will they lose that slot and the result if they happen to miss a day's payment? Will their orders no longer be visible and operating?
I can just about cope with the ghost training change, but it really does send the wrong message.
Edit: Oh and I agree with what Malcanis wrote. Since I wrote my equivalent in the main feedback blog thread, I won't repeat it here. ___ My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties... Environmental Effects
|
Emveedee
The Movement
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:10:00 -
[58]
|
Silva Riley
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 14:49:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Oncely Magnanimous canceling my 5 accounts as soon as they open the Account Management section back up.
Can I have your stuff?
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:03:00 -
[60]
Sorry... haven't had my tetanus (sp?) shot.
Besides... I ran out when I couldn't drown out the whining. : O P
|
|
Draygo Korvan
Merch Industrial GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:08:00 -
[61]
Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 14/10/2008 17:09:14 Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 14/10/2008 17:08:31
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah It has pros and cons really, if you look at the big picture.
People that have to go away from Eve had something to return for, their long-run skill finishing.
On the other hand there are people creating a bunch of alts while strategically letting them lapse until they're ready to, like, be sold off or gather research points (while the account is not paid for either).
I understand CCPs reasons, but I think the problem is inherent in the way the skill system is done, in that there is no way to progress your character in game, no way to catch up with older players, and spending your first month only training those darned learning skills. Of course, whatever is changed to the skill system now is going to result in a whine just as big as this one is.
In it's current form, all of this sounds like a money grab.
Thats why I want two things from CCP in return for this nerf:
30 Day Gametime Codes back NOW! A skill queue!
Skill training on a lapsed account really isnt that much of an issue, it brought people back to this game. And so what if people used it to train alts, you had to sub that alt for 30 days at a time in order to set the next skill. This was more money in CCP's pocket. A large number of V skills finish before 30 days, so you usually would have an alt account 30 days on, 20ish days off (unless you were training a Rank 8+ skill to V).
I always thought training skills was to be detached from actually playing the game. A person ghost training a skill isnt logged in with that character and isnt playing the game or effecting the game world with that character.
The end result of this will be a huge drop in subscriptions for CCP, people will not find it worth it to keep alt accounts going and will just transfer their alts to their main accounts and forget training all together after they get the alt built.
What they should do instead is prevent RP gains while on an inactive account and introduce a skill queue that only works on active accounts. These 2 things would fix a needed advantage, and would add to the game in a way most players want and would find very convienent.
I was up until recently considering getting an alt account so I can train up some useful alts, now it seems like a worthless idea and would just cost too much extra money for a character I will not be playing that often. --
|
Tradimar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:45:00 -
[62]
CCP should just get rid of trial accounts. As a paying account holder, I object to other people playing for free! This is an exploit! (I know, they advertised this "trial" as a feature for a long time.) Plz fix asap.
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 17:53:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 14/10/2008 17:54:12 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 14/10/2008 17:53:48
Originally by: Tradimar CCP should just get rid of trial accounts. As a paying account holder, I object to other people playing for free! This is an exploit! (I know, they advertised this "trial" as a feature for a long time.) Plz fix asap.
T.T
|
KAELA MENSHA
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 18:28:00 -
[64]
Edited by: KAELA MENSHA on 14/10/2008 18:29:44
Originally by: Draygo Korvan Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 14/10/2008 17:09:14 Edited by: Draygo Korvan on 14/10/2008 17:08:31
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah It has pros and cons really, if you look at the big picture.
People that have to go away from Eve had something to return for, their long-run skill finishing.
On the other hand there are people creating a bunch of alts while strategically letting them lapse until they're ready to, like, be sold off or gather research points (while the account is not paid for either).
I understand CCPs reasons, but I think the problem is inherent in the way the skill system is done, in that there is no way to progress your character in game, no way to catch up with older players, and spending your first month only training those darned learning skills. Of course, whatever is changed to the skill system now is going to result in a whine just as big as this one is.
In it's current form, all of this sounds like a money grab.
Thats why I want two things from CCP in return for this nerf:
30 Day Gametime Codes back NOW! A skill queue!
Skill training on a lapsed account really isnt that much of an issue, it brought people back to this game. And so what if people used it to train alts, you had to sub that alt for 30 days at a time in order to set the next skill. This was more money in CCP's pocket. A large number of V skills finish before 30 days, so you usually would have an alt account 30 days on, 20ish days off (unless you were training a Rank 8+ skill to V).
I always thought training skills was to be detached from actually playing the game. A person ghost training a skill isnt logged in with that character and isnt playing the game or effecting the game world with that character.
The end result of this will be a huge drop in subscriptions for CCP, people will not find it worth it to keep alt accounts going and will just transfer their alts to their main accounts and forget training all together after they get the alt built.
What they should do instead is prevent RP gains while on an inactive account and introduce a skill queue that only works on active accounts. These 2 things would fix a needed advantage, and would add to the game in a way most players want and would find very convienent.
I was up until recently considering getting an alt account so I can train up some useful alts, now it seems like a worthless idea and would just cost too much extra money for a character I will not be playing that often.
Thinking of doing just that atm.
Have 3 accounts, might transfer to 1 account taking the main off each account
|
Zinnn
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 18:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: Herschel Yamamoto This was a change that needed to be made, and I say that as someone who exploited the hell out of the old system(Gallente Cruiser V, Drone Interfacing V, Gallente Battleship V, and Advanced Weapon Upgrades V were all trained by me while unpaid). It was a system I used to good effect, but that doesn't change that it was a bad system.
The one thing I look forward to especially is that this removes one(dumb, but still frequently used) argument against skill queues. No, skill queues will not allow a player to come back to a maxed-out dreadnought pilot after a one-month subscription and three years of waiting.
I say let the skill that's currently being trained, complete. If there's more in the queue, it stops training. This gives added peace of mind for subscribers and less peace of mind for people that want to take advantage of this. I"m still against the proposed ghost training nerf.
|
Xyzibit
New-Roots
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 00:14:00 -
[66]
supported... ccp should rethink and stop the patch tomorrow
|
Moustache McGee
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:23:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Hell this is great.... I see a great potential of <coughmoronscough> leaveing the population of EVE online.
Means bigger fights...less lag.
<raises glass of wine> cheers.
I know its a little bit late but seriously, how does Less People = Bigger Fights
|
Blaze Forerunner
The Elite Insurrection
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:31:00 -
[68]
This has been around for far to long, as is supported by their own documentation.
This is a bad idea, and even as someone who has never ghost trained, this is a notch down on the customer service scale imho.
|
Bunyip
Gallente Center for Advanced Studies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 03:40:00 -
[69]
Can I say I've never taken advantage of the "Ghost Training" bug? No. Can I say I agree with the way they suddenly banned "Ghost Training"? No. Can I say I'm upset with the "Ghost Training" thing being stopped? No.
I know some skills take forever and a day to train, and I've felt that sting (BS 5 anybody?), but I think CCP was well in their right to stop the process. For too long, people have been 'playing without paying' both in RP, SP, Market Orders, etc. It's about time CCP stopped the process and let the game be truly player driven, instead of inactive account driven.
The long-term effects are that some vets will stop playing, which is neither good nor bad, and that less capital ships will be fielded, which is good honestly. I do wish they'd stop all gain from inactive accounts, and implement the skill queue, but one step at a time.
I cannot support this thread, as this is CCP's game, and we just play to share in their virtual world and maybe even change it a bit. Kudos, CCP.
-Bunyip
"May all your hits be crits." - Knights of the Dinner Table. |
Col Callahan
Oberon Incorporated Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:00:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Col Callahan on 15/10/2008 04:00:18 I support EVE not being a shit hole pice of crap. but if thats what CCP wants to do then they can find new jobs for all I care and I can find a new game
Black prophecy looks good and so dose Jump gate evo. By by CCP, lies and greed will not be tolerated by me. _
|
|
Shu Jia
Gallente Pacific Starfleet Command Silex Union
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 04:16:00 -
[71]
stop the patch! Looking for future |
Daan Sai
Polytrope
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 05:50:00 -
[72]
Poorly thought out change, even more poorly handled.
|
B'atou
Gallente RATS Corp Cold Steel Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 06:53:00 -
[73]
I'm just using this post as an example
Originally by: Oncely Magnanimous canceling my 5 accounts as soon as they open the Account Management section back up.
seriously, why do people need 5 accounts, when 3, or 4 of them are ghosttrained? What are people doing with 5 accounts? I have two i'm paying all time.
I can understand the decission and support it. Imho, professional ghost training is like macromining. Paying less money for a character, not really playing it, skill it to capship and then selling it for billions on the charactermarket isn't the way, ccp intended the players to uses this feature of the Game. In addition to that, I think CCP is aware of the fact, that they will loose subscribers, and accepted that.
Besides that, the financial situation can't be that bad for CCP, because they want to hire people again.
In addition would it changed anything, when they asked the community about it? That would have changed nothing for anybody of those, that are grumbled about it.
p.s. can i have the stuff of those, that quit the game? Just contract the stuff on my character ------------------------------------------- Every winner needs a looser, only idiots need a leader! |
Druegar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:52:00 -
[74]
supported |
Doris Dragonbreath
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:52:00 -
[75]
|
Li Freeman
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 08:53:00 -
[76]
|
Dr Prometheus
Gears of Construction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 11:13:00 -
[77]
Cancceled one of my constant paying accounts as protest.
|
Zizifull Moramir
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:19:00 -
[78]
|
Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:25:00 -
[79]
Heh, compared to the tropical storm in the information portal, this thread is quite the failure. Guess people don't care *that* much about the issue.
-------- Ideas for: Mining
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:32:00 -
[80]
Edited by: 10of10 on 15/10/2008 15:32:33 What is this ccp with an alt trying to get you to stop posting in the epic thread. Get back to the thread on this topic dont let them use this bait and switch game with a "new" post. |
|
Rafus
Dawn of Fire
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:32:00 -
[81]
I vote no to the change.
|
Midas Man
Dzark Asylum
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:34:00 -
[82]
no
|
Taat Ricedi
Trade Guild Inperium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:36:00 -
[83]
/signed
|
Besrezen Kantos
Trade Guild Inperium
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:37:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Besrezen Kantos on 15/10/2008 15:37:24 supported
|
Ratio Legis
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:41:00 -
[85]
Do not remove ghost training.
|
Daxit
Caldari Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:43:00 -
[86]
i love this killing of ghost training , time to signup another account
|
Kev Hunter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:43:00 -
[87]
3 accounts suspended and a 4th account will not be bought until ghost training become re-activated.
/signed.
|
Lag
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:46:00 -
[88]
Subscription canceled already.
|
Dian Cecht
Omnicorp Enterprises
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:46:00 -
[89]
Get's my vote. Epic fail.
Dian
|
Jocho
Caldari Warped Mining
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:47:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Verone Removing ghost training is a good thing.
People pay to play, why should people be rewarded for not paying? It makes no sense.
The change is good in my opinion.
1)EvE actively kept ghost training in. Clearly it was not a bug. 2)Unlike other MMORPGs eve does not reward you with how much you play, it rewards you with how long your sub is. In WoW someone can go exp mad and reach end content in a few months, whereas in EvE it will take a good year to be good in a ship, not great in it. You pay to train when you buy a sub, ghost training only seems fair as EvE slows you down by a hell of a lot compared to other MMORPGS.
Basically, to be good in eve you have to pay around $500 under the new change, which is a f**king rip off and blatantly nothing other than a grab for money.
|
|
Yeknom Nam
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:48:00 -
[91]
I disagree with this change and the sudden way in which it was introduced and not to mention the timing of the introduction after a recent Power of Two promotion.
|
Skogen Gump
Jericho Fraction
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:51:00 -
[92]
Disagree - its not fair to paying customers that people who don't pay end up with the same advantages for less money at the end of the day.
|
10of10
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:51:00 -
[93]
Time to quit and find a new game |
Velda Chulai
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:52:00 -
[94]
Edited by: Velda Chulai on 15/10/2008 15:53:12 I voted by way of my subscription. We don;t need feel good assembly hall initiatives to do this, when it's only about 5 clicks and a login prompt away.
I can't say I don't support the OP though.
|
Parasite S
Perkone
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 15:57:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Parasite S on 15/10/2008 15:57:36
Originally by: Skogen Gump Disagree - its not fair to paying customers that people who don't pay end up with the same advantages for less money at the end of the day.
Sorry but.... WRONG.
All they managed is getting a skill. They COULDNT... -get standing / lp for jumpclones and items -change their location to directly start playing again as intended -do any transaction within corp etc -affect the server in a bad wise or even lag system -DO ANY ISK!... which means not being able to.... ->afford any ship ->afford any NEW SKILL ->afford any contract payment ->afford and equipment for an allready owned ship ->afford a GTC ....
so all they got is the skill. but compare eve to another mmo? there you can do stuff by lvl and skilllvl + cheap equipment. in eve you CANT USE those without HAVING THE ISK to afford the things you trained for. inactive account -> dont produces isk -> get my thought? kkthx
*edit support but who cares 3 accounts canceled so far ^^* --------------- DON'T troll me |
Kheldon Fel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:08:00 -
[96]
Exceptionally stupid move by CCP.
-3
|
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:09:00 -
[97]
I oppose the ban on ghost-training, for all the reasons that have already been covered
|
RatzoRizzo
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:12:00 -
[98]
supported, but ccp won¦t listen anyway as they didn¦t with gtc changes... kind of sad to see ccp going the greedy mainstream way...
|
The Ubernomicon
Eight year old girls GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:24:00 -
[99]
I have canceled all of my accounts because of this change. While I enjoy this game, I will not resub until CCP reinstates ghost training.
|
Tarron Sarek
Gallente Biotronics Inc. Alternative Realities
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:30:00 -
[100]
Originally by: Ankhesentapemkah It has pros and cons really, if you look at the big picture.
People that have to go away from Eve had something to return for, their long-run skill finishing.
On the other hand there are people creating a bunch of alts while strategically letting them lapse until they're ready to, like, be sold off or gather research points (while the account is not paid for either).
I understand CCPs reasons, but I think the problem is inherent in the way the skill system is done, in that there is no way to progress your character in game, no way to catch up with older players, and spending your first month only training those darned learning skills. Of course, whatever is changed to the skill system now is going to result in a whine just as big as this one is.
In it's current form, all of this sounds like a money grab.
Thats why I want two things from CCP in return for this nerf:
30 Day Gametime Codes back NOW! A skill queue!
It's nice to see people with a differentiated view.
I honestly don't like character farmers or multiple alts for every possible task, being 'ghost trained' for best min-maxing effectiveness. The deliberate exploitation of this feature surely is something that hurts the game. And anything that makes EVE less 'Alts-Online' is highly appreciated.
However, as has been mentioned many many times, the fashion in which it was done is absolutely intolerable. Apart from that CCP is about to devalue their service and take away something special about EVE. Add to that the price increase for subscriptions and all you can say is that's not going to benefit the game. A fact which players who really care about the game should be and actually are concerned about.
There's definitely a lack of balancing in CCP's business decisions.
___________________________________
Balance is power, guard hide it well
"Ceterum censeo Polycarbonem esse delendam" |
|
Ishbuanium
Black Skull Legion Veneratio Venator Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 16:52:00 -
[101]
The was quite the lulz though.
I mean, come on, respect your bloody playerbase.
Seriously CCP, I miss '05.
|
S3Ti
Genbuku. Daisho Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:16:00 -
[102]
For several reasons stated in ghost posts :S i am not happy with this decision.
I think everyone used that feature at least once due to RL commitments or even boredom. The way this subject has been handled by CCP is a joke: liars and greedy people they are. If i did this in my RL job i would be fired in no time. They show lack of respect to me and playerbase.
i have 2 accounts suspended already. Will keep this one at least at the start of November.
CCP is Greedy CCP is Liar CCP is Disrespectful CCP is Joke and we are part of this Circus
|
LegendaryFrog
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 17:24:00 -
[103]
I don't see why CCP would take the (almost certain to happen) risk of loosing both money and market share in the long run by further alienating some of its fanbase with this decision.
|
Snake Tanuki
ZiTek
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:01:00 -
[104]
Edited by: Snake Tanuki on 15/10/2008 18:04:41 redrum
All your goats are belong to us! |
Snake Tanuki
ZiTek
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:04:00 -
[105]
Keep Ghost skilling...
Or even better: Remove ghost skilling and overhaul the crappy skill system so that the more complex skills don't take 30 days and more to finish (even with implants). Waiting a month fo a skill to finish is almost as entertaining as drinking from a pubvlic toilet.
All your goats are belong to us! |
Chris Stormrider
IDEON ANDRON
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 18:32:00 -
[106]
|
Shad0wsFury
Slacker Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:47:00 -
[107]
this FEATURE should remain.
|
NereSky
Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:53:00 -
[108]
I vote to keep Ghost training ingame until a suitable alternative is on the table for those it affects, also SORT OUT YOUR LACK OF CUSTOMER SERVICE OUT CCP goddamn more Shennanagins
|
Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 20:54:00 -
[109]
+1
though does there really need to be 2 identical threads to discuss this?.. im sure the 125 page official one is enough...
|
Max Deth
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:01:00 -
[110]
Edited by: Max Deth on 15/10/2008 21:03:22 -1 account.... this ghost training nerf and the heavy handed speed nerf ends it for me. |
|
VLAD DRACU
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:01:00 -
[111]
i would see ghost training as a compensation for the slow learning curve eve has and also as an incentive to get back after breaks
|
Cyxopyc
The Dead Parrot Shoppe Inc.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:02:00 -
[112]
I want a skill queue! Just one skill in queue is all I want!!
Yes I'm disparate, posting off topic and all. But I hope it works catching you while you might be in a mood for coding.
BTW recent changes for Jita are good == Support fixing the EVE UI |
Col Carter
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:06:00 -
[113]
Edited by: Col Carter on 15/10/2008 21:07:21
|
Izadi
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:12:00 -
[114]
+1 I support this thread!
|
Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:21:00 -
[115]
Sorry If I am dimm - this is a vote topic - I get no option to vote :(
|
Xavier Holtzman
Dark Star Cartel
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:21:00 -
[116]
epic fail
like i said before; if they had been honest in the first place and said that they needed money, I would have been willing to pay an extra $5-$10 per month to play.
this is just sad. -=Xavier Holtzman=- "I'm in love with a malicious intent." |
Betteroff Dead
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:34:00 -
[117]
Yes |
Echthalian
Martian Productions
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:38:00 -
[118]
/support
seriously, wtf CCP
just when I got the bug to come back, you killed it...faster then i can say, "installing WARHAMMER"
|
Lord Melon
KOVEN Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:40:00 -
[119]
Sorry If I am dimm - this is a vote topic - I get no option to vote :(
|
James Marshalll
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:46:00 -
[120]
/signed.
Please lets keep this a "I don't support" or "I do support" thread and keep the discussion of the reasons in the other thread here: Ghost Training Discussion Thread
|
|
Aliedora
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:51:00 -
[121]
burn ccp.
|
Silvia t'Nias
Paramilitary Skanks
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:55:00 -
[122]
I don't vote on this subject here, I vote with my wallet.
|
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 21:58:00 -
[123]
Edited by: Lana Ground on 15/10/2008 21:58:36 SIGNED
how long till this topic "gets lost"
|
Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:03:00 -
[124]
In Before The Lost _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
|
Tito Sajic
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:57:00 -
[125]
Edited by: Tito Sajic on 15/10/2008 22:58:21 I demand a recount...I mean...repatch!
|
Asith
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 22:59:00 -
[126]
BRing back ghost training
|
Nilien
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:06:00 -
[127]
CCP! You kill reason for return to this world. Reenable this feature or you will have a big leak of incoming cash this year.
|
Muschiu
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:08:00 -
[128]
Edited by: ******u on 15/10/2008 23:15:06 if this was a "bug" yesterday, what't next? and nice work on making the @130 pages threadnought "invisible". this can be quoted under the section "don't do like them" edit: /signed!
|
Lana Ground
Caldari Galactic Accord State Navy Academy Accord Corporate Enterprise Syndicate
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:11:00 -
[129]
Originally by: ******u if this was a "bug" yesterday, what't next? and nice work on making the @130 pages threadnought "invisible". this can be quoted under the section "don't do like them"
this is a petition thread dude just /signed etc and get as many ppl on ere as poss to sign
|
Graygor
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:17:00 -
[130]
Edited by: Graygor on 15/10/2008 23:17:05 /signed
This was one of the features that kept bringing me back to Eve when bored. Without it i'd have gone on to play other games.
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momotaro
Federal Defence Union
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:20:00 -
[131]
i vote FOR ghost training, it was the only way i could keep competitive SP wise with older players as my play time is irregular and scarce.
i hate that all of this is a LIE, being an unintended bug and all, it's not the first CCP has told but as it stands now it is the last lie I'll be fed. If CCP would of said "listen, we are taking out ghost training because we want to, it was a feature but because WE want to change it, it will be removed" then maybe i would still play the game.
as i play more than 2 mmo's with little time for play, i would pay for eve with brakes of 2 or 3 weeks, but i WOULD pay, happy to return as my recon 5 skill finished, eager to take my recon for a ride, now i will not pay at all.
I VOTE TO KEEP GHOST TRAINING IN THE GAME ******** The nail that stands out, gets hammered.
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ViolenTUK
Vindicated Exiles
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:20:00 -
[132]
This is the worst most appalling and ghastly idea I have seen CCP implement so abruptly in the time I have spent with this game.
There is no justifiable reason to implement this idea now. For CCP to cover it up with the rouge that ôGhostö training is an exploit is an insult. ôGhostö training has been and advertised feature, which has been a deciding factor for many to subscribe to an account. I am simply not interested in the explanation that it was an unintentional bug, which has been used by players. This Feature, which CCP has advertised, has been used for 5 years now and it is deplorable to suddenly withdraw it with virtually no warning.
We will see whether CCP have made a bad move by noting the active subscriptions over the forthcoming months.
The removal of "Ghost Training" |
Jikiya
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:20:00 -
[133]
/signed
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Duskadantor
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:24:00 -
[134]
A good rethinking of this idea, would be that we can all log off and have a que of skills train. One after the other, with an active account. So before CCP remove this 'ghosting' feature - well ok its no longer a feature due a day slow ninja-edit - they should add something.
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Mammon
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:24:00 -
[135]
Edited by: Mammon on 15/10/2008 23:25:20 signed. and vote for ccp to win "D.i.c.k Move of the Week".
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Dkiler
Dkiller Delta Force Corp. CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:35:00 -
[136]
signed/
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Akemi Tarazon
Caldari Romantic Devastator Resurgency
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:37:00 -
[137]
My wish is simple. I want *MY GHOST SKILL TRAINING* back!
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Chaos Incarnate
Faceless Logistics
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:50:00 -
[138]
I support getting stuff for free
That said, go ahead and cancel it __________
Sig by Neth'Rae Cannot read from face Abort, Retry, Fail? FFFFFF |
Radamathadus
Radical Technologies
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:53:00 -
[139]
Given its supposedly about "fairness" and the matter of ongoing market orders and research points has failed to be mentioned by the dev's shows this to be only a cynical move to raise more funds. If fairness was an issue CCP would have gone out its way to open up the debate weeks ago and at least pretend to listen to its community.
The manner of this announcement and subsequent "clarification" stinks of the CCP handling of the T20 cheating dev scandal - did you learn nothing CCP? Those CCP staff who have handled this matter need some serious training as they will likely have cost the company alot of revenue. Start by telling the truth not using smoke and mirrors, at a time when folks are struggling financially adding insult to injury will be a final straw for many.
Finally this move hits the core player base of veterans with multiple accounts hardest. Is CCP so confident or arrogant that its game works so perfectly with so few issues it can afford upset many in this key group?
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VCBee 516
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Posted - 2008.10.15 23:54:00 -
[140]
your own player guide said it was intentional and now it's cancelled due to it being a "bug"
Bullshit. You want more money. You already explained this by "adjusting" timecards so you increased profit to be more in line with other monthly MMO rates.
Now you want even more money. **** off. You can call it a bug all you want but it was supported by your company in word and deed for years. Do us a favor and tell us you want more money, don't bother lying and calling it a bug.
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islador
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:58:00 -
[141]
signed, ccp needs to grow a brain.
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Thargat
Caldari North Star Networks Executive Outcomes
|
Posted - 2008.10.15 23:59:00 -
[142]
stuff, can, has, plix?
There's only one sig that matters... and that's Radius. |
Vietone
Gallente The Scope
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 00:03:00 -
[143]
Im for ghost training, as long as they give you 10% of the normal SP you would normally get.
It was never an advertised feature of the game. Its listed in one place, and only one place on the CCP site and put in a place that people are more than likely to neglect.
When you can find a CCP ad that says you can train while your character is unsubscribed, then you can say they advertised it. The point of an advertisement is to draw players into the game. Just because "YOU" may have used it as a reason to draw people in doesnt mean CCP advertised it. I have yet to see any CCP ad getting new players to join the game because of ghost training.
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Zanquis
Caldari Universal Exports FOUNDATI0N
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 01:04:00 -
[144]
/signed ---------------------------------------------- EvE Personality Test
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StainLessStealRat
Space Oddysey Pupule 'Ohana
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 02:46:00 -
[145]
never used it but i like the option for when i go on holidays ect
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IronGoldenEagle
Destroyers Of the Freeworld THORN Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:09:00 -
[146]
Agreed
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NupetietVer
Neuro Cartographic Services
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 03:26:00 -
[147]
Whichever CSM brings back Ghost Training has my vote.
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Roland San
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 04:02:00 -
[148]
I firmly believe Ghost Training should remain, not only because it is a unique and outstanding feature, but also because CCP should know that respect can be so easily lost with a single blog, or the hiding of a thread, and by maintaining what was once documented as a game feature, they can at least salvage some dignity (not to mention accounts).
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Squatch
Defenders of the Faith
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:40:00 -
[149]
Worthless change. |
Patron Diety
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:41:00 -
[150]
CCP need to rethink this. |
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Patron Diety
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:41:00 -
[151]
CCP need to rethink this. |
Sodee
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:43:00 -
[152]
5+ years, and it comes to this..
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Sodee
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 05:43:00 -
[153]
5+ years, and it comes to this..
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JunLin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:22:00 -
[154]
ccp has to rethink the ghost training part ... it was the main reason why i ve started with eve (no joke)
without it it just looks like ccp tries to bind the player with long skilltrianing times as long as they can (a cheap trick) to get as much money as possible from each customer
(all accounts canceled till ghost training is back)
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Kungfutse
Lutkat The Polaris Syndicate
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Posted - 2008.10.16 07:41:00 -
[155]
/signed
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Laira Ohtar
Gallente No Quarter. Imperial Republic Of the North
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:46:00 -
[156]
You dont pay you dont get... its clear.
_______________________________________________ Mama, just killed a man Put a blaster against his POD Pulled my trigger, now he's cloned... |
Sahara Eternity
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:49:00 -
[157]
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dorannl
Mystery Inc
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 07:54:00 -
[158]
Wasnt the CSM founded to make this kind of things more transparent.
CCP clearly lost the connection with the player base. Not because they disable ghost training but how they handeld it.
Also shame on them to hide the thread about ghost training or being extremly incompetent.
signed
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Sky Marshal
State Protectorate
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:08:00 -
[159]
Edited by: Sky Marshal on 16/10/2008 08:10:32
CCP shoot himself by doing this change, and retire the motivation for players to come back from a break.
CCP need to make some official and serious excuses about the way that this move was done, as I don't appreciate how CCP treated his customers this time.
And restore Ghost Training, but why not with a limitation of 2 or 3 weeks as I can understand that this feature could permit some abuses.
This would be a good compromise.
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dojocan81
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 08:19:00 -
[160]
/signed
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Chani Fedaykin
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 10:52:00 -
[161]
signed
details in the devblog comments thread here |
Odetta Harpy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:06:00 -
[162]
o i was just about to put that in, so any way, lets add about say....5,000 votes plus. Also add all the people that dont use the forums, say another 5,000 votes :)
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Odetta Harpy
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:07:00 -
[163]
o and have they actualy done it, cos there hasnt been a patch unless its sever side only.
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Jasqar
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:23:00 -
[164]
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Johncrab
Typo Corp
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 11:42:00 -
[165]
I don't ghost train and still think this is the dumbest move ever. And the way CCP handled the whole thing was pure kamikaze. Dye well CCP. I'll be here until TQ goes down though, doing my thing, on 1 account only of course.
Oh, and the 133 page (and counting) thread on information portal is still hidden. How much lower can you get CCP? |
Riu Stuka
GeoCorp. Paxton Federation
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Posted - 2008.10.16 13:13:00 -
[166]
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Holy Lowlander
Aurora Acclivitous
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:34:00 -
[167]
understandable that ccp wants to make more money, but please say so and not make up a bull sh*t story about it ...
Originally by: SirMolle 1) Form the biggest coalition the game has ever seen 2) Attack BoB's home and infrastructure
... oh wait
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Straight Chillen
Solar Wind
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 13:52:00 -
[168]
This will end up costing CCP more in the long run Please resize image to a maximum of 400 x 120, not exceeding 24000 bytes. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint |
Seriya
The Priory
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 16:06:00 -
[169]
Edited by: Seriya on 16/10/2008 16:06:31 I could accept an end to Ghost Training if better notice was given (say at least 2 months from announcement to the removal of the feature,) and if we were given a skill queue.
I was further upset by the abrupt removal of Ghost Training due to the lies and excuses that CCP pumped out to cover it.
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Lefai
Omega Laboratories Omega Mining and research
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:38:00 -
[170]
bad move CCP i never once heard anyone in any chat complain about "ghost training". this was one of the great features of EVE and what the people complaining now dont seem to see is that yes the characters are inactive or unsubbed but they still get brought back online to change the skill meaning you still have to pay to train. this is going to hurt CCPs bank account more than us as players
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Rochel Hakiri
principle of motion
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:48:00 -
[171]
/signed, wtf ccp?
got enough of those pesky subscribers?
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Elise Randolph
Slacker Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.16 19:56:00 -
[172]
Edited by: Elise Randolph on 16/10/2008 19:56:03 More warning would have been nice, but really just posting to show how awesomely useless CSM is; it seems people have forgotten. ----------
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Sir SmellyFart
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:20:00 -
[173]
Man, first removing the choice of different GTC's and with it driving the price per month up by some 30-40% and now this?
Great going CCP, can I has more of your marketing bullshite to explain why you are ripping us off pls???
I was thinking of getting a third account really but this change shot it right down.
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Azuraito
Caldari Capital Produce Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.16 21:36:00 -
[174]
I vote no
This is a welcome change.. Pay to play!
Originally by: Joshua Foiritain Hiding would be the way to go.
The mods ganked my Sig :( |
Phloxomoron
|
Posted - 2008.10.16 23:57:00 -
[175]
Edited by: Phloxomoron on 17/10/2008 00:01:49 So will CSM take this issue to a vote on whether to reinstate ghost training?
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Tin0
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 00:03:00 -
[176]
the sudden implementation without adequate consultation means I propose that the CSM at least put it to a vote in the next meeting
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Marlona Sky
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.17 00:14:00 -
[177]
Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 01:05:00 -
[178]
Originally by: Marlona Sky Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too? _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
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Leto Becken
Blue Cloud Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.17 01:39:00 -
[179]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about.
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
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Raymond Sterns
Utopian Research I.E.L. The ENTITY.
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Posted - 2008.10.17 02:17:00 -
[180]
Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 17/10/2008 02:17:50
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about.
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
I have no alts. I'm not so much ****ed off at the fact that I won't be able to ghost train Cald BS 5 so I could use the Raven better, I'm ****ed at the fact that CCP is acting like EA. Power of 2, 30-d GTC, Removal of Ghost training, CCP made a plan for this to leech as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
Also, asking me not to train skills is like asking me not to paint my house because I can't be arsed to watch the paint dry while I could be doing something else. _ Hooray for shitty marketing moves.
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Ichinomiya Chiaki
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Posted - 2008.10.17 03:51:00 -
[181]
/signed
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Leto Becken
Blue Cloud Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 04:20:00 -
[182]
Originally by: Raymond Sterns Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 17/10/2008 02:17:50
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about.
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
I have no alts. I'm not so much ****ed off at the fact that I won't be able to ghost train Cald BS 5 so I could use the Raven better, I'm ****ed at the fact that CCP is acting like EA. Power of 2, 30-d GTC, Removal of Ghost training, CCP made a plan for this to leech as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
Also, asking me not to train skills is like asking me not to paint my house because I can't be arsed to watch the paint dry while I could be doing something else.
*sigh* This is simple really, I promise.
To play you pay. PvPing is playing, PvE is playing, and market PvP is playing.
Skill training is also playing. Prove it otherwise.
If you want to get better at any of the above things you have to train skills. Don't tell me you don't enjoy seeing "completion imminent" on that 30+ day skill. That is playing. If CCP made a game where all you did was train skills, and whoever had the most was best, you'd be playing.
If skill training isn't playing, you would stop training as soon as you felt your character is where you want him to be skill wise. If it's not playing, then there is no enjoyment of ghost training that 30+ day skill, and why bother?
But I'll agree, CCP's business practices are sketchy. If that is what everyone is "canceling" their accounts about, I don't blame them. If it's because they can no longer scam CCP out of cash so that they can train 6 alts while only paying the equivalent of 2 full time, well tbh I don't care and their tears taste so sweet.
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Flinchey
Amarr ANZAC ALLIANCE Southern Cross Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 09:03:00 -
[183]
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns Edited by: Raymond Sterns on 17/10/2008 02:17:50
Originally by: Leto Becken
Originally by: Raymond Sterns
Originally by: Marlona Sky Training a skill is playing the game. You want to play without paying.
THUMBS DOWN !!!
So by your reasoning, watching paint dry is playing too?
You fail at making sense. You know, you don't have to train skills. I mean if it's so boring, or tedious, or whatever you think it is, just don't do it and you won't have anything to complain about.
Seriously if skill training wasn't so important to this game, I wouldn't get to laugh at all your tears. Notice that it's the people with 3, 4, 5, and more accounts that are upset. Guess we get to play eve without 50% of the player base being alts, I can't wait.
I have no alts. I'm not so much ****ed off at the fact that I won't be able to ghost train Cald BS 5 so I could use the Raven better, I'm ****ed at the fact that CCP is acting like EA. Power of 2, 30-d GTC, Removal of Ghost training, CCP made a plan for this to leech as much money as possible in as little time as possible.
Also, asking me not to train skills is like asking me not to paint my house because I can't be arsed to watch the paint dry while I could be doing something else.
*sigh* This is simple really, I promise.
To play you pay. PvPing is playing, PvE is playing, and market PvP is playing.
Skill training is also playing. Prove it otherwise.
If you want to get better at any of the above things you have to train skills. Don't tell me you don't enjoy seeing "completion imminent" on that 30+ day skill. That is playing. If CCP made a game where all you did was train skills, and whoever had the most was best, you'd be playing.
If skill training isn't playing, you would stop training as soon as you felt your character is where you want him to be skill wise. If it's not playing, then there is no enjoyment of ghost training that 30+ day skill, and why bother?
But I'll agree, CCP's business practices are sketchy. If that is what everyone is "canceling" their accounts about, I don't blame them. If it's because they can no longer scam CCP out of cash so that they can train 6 alts while only paying the equivalent of 2 full time, well tbh I don't care and their tears taste so sweet.
6 alts. they'd have to be running them 50/50 so thats 3 full time subs CCP just lost. 3 down to 0. what would you prefer as a business?
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.17 10:36:00 -
[184]
they seem to have stopped the server graph from working, maby so you can't look at the huge dip in people online.
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Simen123
modro CORPVS DELICTI
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Posted - 2008.10.17 11:30:00 -
[185]
make it worth returning after a break
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Odetta Harpy
|
Posted - 2008.10.17 20:30:00 -
[186]
bump, got 2 keep this thread going
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Wentau
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 01:18:00 -
[187]
Though i think losing the Ghost training sucks, i never really did understand how one could get benefits from the game without paying for it.
HOWEVER,
a skill queue is only fair now. Please everyone go to this link and voice your support for a skill queue if you are also upset about the loss of the Ghost training:
http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=897766
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CCP Applebabe
|
Posted - 2008.10.18 02:49:00 -
[188]
Please keep the discussion to the relevant thread here. Applebabe Community Representative CCP Games, EVE Online Email / Netfang
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Oli Robbo
Galactic Defence Syndicate Axiom Empire
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 11:14:00 -
[189]
So I'm a student who can't play/get a connection 24/7, naturally i set a long skill while i'm away [and in which time my account usually goes inactive] now thanks to the 'brilliant bug fix' My skills won't finish/ I have nothing worth coming back to.
Please explain how this is 'balancing' the game mechanics? CCP is Bankrupt. Fact.
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Irongut
M'8'S Frontal Impact
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 17:17:00 -
[190]
Training an account that you don't pay for is cheating imo. I'm glad CCP removed this way for you to gain an unfair advantage over people who actually pay for all their accounts.
Imo CSM should congratulate CCP for taking this action and ask why they didn't do it sooner.
--
The future is Black. Brace for Impact! |
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NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:17:00 -
[191]
Nice to see this has been unlocked - thankyou
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Jinx Barker
GFB Scientific
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:22:00 -
[192]
::::Click The Signature For the Blog::::
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Venezia Dawn
The VD Clinic Violent-Tendencies
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:29:00 -
[193]
Edited by: Venezia Dawn on 20/10/2008 18:29:02
Edit:
Will have to consolidate accounts if this change continues to be implemented. :( |
Hitman 001
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:30:00 -
[194]
as i said if this goes tro -2 accounts. i always come back , cos i like this game, but its BS that it is a "bug" after 5 years
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Gunnanmon
UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 18:44:00 -
[195]
Edited by: Gunnanmon on 20/10/2008 18:44:11 /signed
The hidden ghost training eradication reply thread |
Davina Braben
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 19:08:00 -
[196]
VOTE.
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Brother Welcome
Suddenly Ninjas Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 19:34:00 -
[197]
In support of OP.
I'd love to see some official numbers so that other solutions might be found and considered.
-vk
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Janus Duo
Down In Flames
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 20:32:00 -
[198]
Dumbest idea by CCP since GTC price hike.
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Thargorr
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 20:33:00 -
[199]
Ghost training will lose CCP money, not get them more.
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Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 21:16:00 -
[200]
Originally by: Brother Welcome In support of OP.
I'd love to see some official numbers so that other solutions might be found and considered.
-vk
I doubt the true effect of this farce will be known for 1 to 3 months. Once people have stuck 30 or 60 days on expired accounts, waited for 29 days, then transferred chars to other accounts. The Ghost-training vote thread |
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Takarr Drayke
The Markovian Group
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 21:29:00 -
[201]
I'm deployed, an have no issues paying to skill whether I can play or not.
I'm all for the removal of Ghosting. It was a great move, and looooong overdue. Should have been in effect before carriers/moms/titans.
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oilio
State War Academy
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 21:33:00 -
[202]
Edited by: oilio on 20/10/2008 21:34:21 I have never used Ghost Training (a phrase which didn't exist until CCP recently invented it) on either of my accounts. I never had any intention to do so.
I do, however see the merits of it and it seemed like a great part of the service - another thing that set eve apart from all the other games.
In order for someone to gain any benefit from "Ghost Training", they had to resubscribe. These are repeat customers.
I think the decision to remove it was bad, overall, but that is AS NOTHING compared to the way CCP handled it. In some ways similar to the handling of the T20 incident.
In this case, they do something very unpopular which effectively downgrades the service people were used to for five years, then they pull any amount of garbage from thin air to explian why they did it... "bug", "unintended", "a balance issue"...
then they massively censor anyone who tries to complain about it.
This is hot on the heels of the GTC price-hike that was dressed up as being "more efficient" to have only 60 day cards... which suddenly cost more than two 30 day cards... but that's because Eve is a "Premium Product", apparently.
In neither case (GTC or Ghost Training) did they mention trying to maximise revenues - no hint of that at all. |
Gunnanmon
Gallente UNITED STAR SYNDICATE R-I-P
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 21:52:00 -
[203]
Originally by: Takarr Drayke I'm deployed, an have no issues paying to skill whether I can play or not.
I'm all for the removal of Ghosting. It was a great move, and looooong overdue. Should have been in effect before carriers/moms/titans.
It wasn't, so let's penalise those that haven't trained up Carrier 5 yet.
BTW, anyone wanna buy a char with Carrier 5, Fighters 5, Adv Drone Inter 5, Command Ships 5, to name but a few of the stupidly long ones, trained? The Ghost-training vote thread |
NereSky
Gallente Trinity Nova Trinity Nova Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 22:00:00 -
[204]
This was quite a interesting post on the blog thread by Gutta Percha post no 4572;
Quoting;
It's time to put this "bug" crap to rest once and for all.
As a programmer of 45+ years I can see very clearly that this was never a bug. In fact, it had been the simplest, most elegant implementation of time-based "training" possible:
For the type of training Eve has had, several fields were added to the char info in the database:
Current Skill: [database key of the skill] Completion date/time: [date/time]
Any number of individual skill records subordinate to the char store the ID of each skill and the SP or percentage of "progress." The subordinate record for the current skill tracked in the char info doesn't have to be updated until examined at the next login, and then either set to "completed" or "100%", and then only if the skill step has been "completed."
If a skill is not actively paused, the static completion date/time means that a waiting period is being imposed. The skill step can only be used after the waiting period has expired. In reality, it's not "training" -- it's a wait. And not even a game wait. It's an out-of-game calendar wait.
Note that an entry in the database of a completion date/time requires no work. There is no actual ongoing process of "training." Rather, in the mechanics of the game, the training completion is a foregone conclusion that will be discovered at some future time when the Eve client connects and discovers that the date/time for completion has passed.
Meanwhile, the apparency of ongoing training... the countdown and progress bar in the Char Sheet... are illusions created in the Eve client.
This mechanism for managing training that works by calendar/clock time instead of in-game actions is elegant. It requires no work or effort on the part of the servers. In fact, the server cluster could go up in smoke, a new cluster could be built over the course of days, weeks or a month, and in the end no "training" will have been lost because the "training" is not a process but merely a recorded completion date/time.
Now... an elegant mechanism like this is automatically going to "train" while you are offline and, yes, while you are unsubscribed. Nothing is given away for free. Everything needed has been paid for and done under an active subscription, and only the calendar waiting period must run its course before the skill step can be used. And then only if you actually log in again.
This elegant mechanism was designed this way to minimize the impact of training on the servers. It's beautiful. Anything different would be inelegant and probablly horrible.
So now they have broken that elegant mechanism by the addition of new code... code that forcibly puts a skill into the "paused" state when an account is marked as inactive. This is more work for the servers than before. It is more work for the database than before. It is less elegant, less perfect, and wholly artificial.
CCP is now penalizing us for something that formerly cost them nothing, and in doing so are going to extra effort, going out of their way to set training steps to a paused state. In effect they seek to charge us for a calendar waiting period for a skill we have already paid for and had to be active and online to initiate.
End quote
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:15:00 -
[205]
I didn't use this "feature" but it is one of the things that separated EVE from every other shitty MMO out there and made it a unique experience.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Chani Fedaykin
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:37:00 -
[206]
thanks for unlocking this VOTING thread.
...which means ofc (directed to the posters) please keep this thread free of discussion on the topic because thats basically why it got locked.
ccp wants the discussion to be kept in the according thread here which should be obeyed (they even managed to unhide it, so please do them this favor - even if you disagree with the change and/or the communication of the change) |
Aganola
Amarr Hungarian Riflemen Regiment
|
Posted - 2008.10.20 22:46:00 -
[207]
Edited by: Aganola on 20/10/2008 22:47:55 A big and sound
NO to the Ghost-train nerf!!!
From my point of view: they just robbed me of my hobby!
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aquo
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Posted - 2008.10.20 22:51:00 -
[208]
As a .NET Solutions Architect (among other things), I have to agree with the post two above. And indeed, if it was written any other way, it would be simple to merge the solution above into the current codebase.
And if CCP are too thick to do it that way, it explains Jita.
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DogSlime
Perkone
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Posted - 2008.10.20 23:05:00 -
[209]
Bad PR by CCP - both in removing the training
...and in the way they tried to bullshit about the motives.
...and in the way they have dealt with people complaining about it. |
deathlords
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 00:26:00 -
[210]
Glad I did not do that Power of Two!
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Grakkus IX
Minmatar Killer Angels
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Posted - 2008.10.21 02:04:00 -
[211]
GTC price hike + RL economic woes + no ghost training fallback = consolidate accounts. |
Tivookz
IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.
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Posted - 2008.10.21 08:37:00 -
[212]
Patience and persistence.
Removing ghost training was probably the worst move in EVE history.
Increasing monthly cost I can understand even tho it sucked but this? Unforgivable unless revoked.
Tiv
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eliminator2
Heretic Army Heretic Nation
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Posted - 2008.10.21 11:34:00 -
[213]
i agree ghost training brings player's back to the game its like a cookie jar u get bored of the cookies in there u leave them for abit and you find some new ones put in so you return but if you take the new ones away you think meh i see why i left these alone
and if they still bring this through at least do the idea for training multiple accounts at once we pay for the three account slots we want to use them and train 3 at once its the same as ghost training but opposite we actually pay for them
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yani dumyat
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:12:00 -
[214]
Come the revolution whoever removed ghost training is 1st up against the wall, ok maybe 3nd after Simon Cowell and Michael Portillo. If in doubt then all is good If not in doubt then ask yourself harder questions |
AlphaViscera
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:25:00 -
[215]
i support this
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Iluminat
Minmatar Sharp Dressed Man
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:40:00 -
[216]
I dont use ghost training. but i support the long time players with this option that is here for 5 years. EVE is a great game. dont change to much!!!
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Handik Rarma
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Posted - 2008.10.21 13:58:00 -
[217]
U Turn needed on this change - bad idea CCP!!
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Die Unknown
Surge.
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Posted - 2008.10.21 14:17:00 -
[218]
This is a betrayal to all Eve community. I can't believe that CCP would pull the rug under so many peoples' feet in a time like this. |
SZ Rota
Caldari Eve University Ivy League
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Posted - 2008.10.21 14:31:00 -
[219]
Give back the feature you cut out of the game after over half a decade.
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RaTTuS
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2008.10.21 14:38:00 -
[220]
I and all my alts say that this change is good -- BIG Lottery, BIG Deal, InEve
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Talsha Talamar
Nebula Rasa Holdings Nebula Rasa
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:11:00 -
[221]
1. It was handled by CCP for 5 years as established feature. 2. It certainly influenced design decisions profoundly (required skill portfolios for new ships or equipment, training difficulty for new skills, a.s.o.) 3. It was a primary reasons that some of the insane required real life training times on some skills were tolerated. 4. It basically increases the cost to build up alts and by that experience alternate gamestyles by up to 50%. 5. The In conjunction with the lost flexiblity by the removal of 30 days and increased cost by that of 90 days GTCs, the upkeeping of secondary accounts became exponentially more diffcult if not prohibitive for many players. 6. It removes a major motivation for returning to the game after a break. 7. It cements the allready huge gaps between established and new players. 8. ...
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Mael Duakal
Free-Space-Ranger Morsus Mihi
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:14:00 -
[222]
Bring back "ghost training"!!!!
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Krycka
Nightmare Holdings
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:26:00 -
[223]
10 days to quit, probably for good this time. Med ett shysst jSrnr÷r kan man sls hela vSrlden med hSpnad!
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Unas Bronson
Bronson Alcohol League
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Posted - 2008.10.21 17:28:00 -
[224]
Been a couple of good years, but this time i quit for good i think.
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Sylvmar
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 18:41:00 -
[225]
Return ghost training
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Squirrrel
Squirrrel Industries
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 19:21:00 -
[226]
A 5 year bug.. give me a break.
Terrible decision, and dressed up so, so badly.
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h zebra
|
Posted - 2008.10.21 21:36:00 -
[227]
Edited by: h zebra on 21/10/2008 21:36:34
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tartan pixie
Minmatar Pixie Cats
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 01:18:00 -
[228]
------------------------------------------------ No your honour my defence is that the pixies did it in the middle of the night. Prove me wrong. |
tartan pixie
Pixie Cats
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Posted - 2008.10.22 01:19:00 -
[229]
------------------------------------------------ No your honour my defence is that the pixies did it in the middle of the night. Prove me wrong. |
DJ Geist
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 04:33:00 -
[230]
Edited by: DJ Geist on 22/10/2008 04:35:12 I am voting in favor of bringing back ghost training
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Deimus
CAD Inc. Executive Outcomes
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Posted - 2008.10.22 10:49:00 -
[231]
I might consider coming back only IF they reverse this ridiculous move.
If not, thats -3 accounts.
Thanks for the fun CCP while it lasted.
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Efrim Black
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:09:00 -
[232]
Yah hopefully all these people quit, it will free up some of the lag. :D
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:39:00 -
[233]
Originally by: Efrim Black Yah hopefully all these people quit, it will free up some of the lag. :D
Yeah... I'm loving all these tears.
^_^
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Rafael Cane
House of Stark FOUNDATI0N
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Posted - 2008.10.22 18:56:00 -
[234]
I guess some people are against that because the change will prevent many older gamers from some capital competition. Maybe.
For myself, i can¦t support this thread because the change gives more focus to characters in-game.
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NanDe YaNen
The Funkalistic
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Posted - 2008.10.22 23:01:00 -
[235]
Edited by: NanDe YaNen on 22/10/2008 23:01:32 Go on and cry about it '<>_<>'
So you can't get SP without paying for it? Like me? Why should non-ghost trainers expect to compete with players who have skills trained with game time they didn't pay for?
Only true-to-the-cause freeloaders can be so upset about not getting something they don't work/pay for. |
Becq Starforged
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
|
Posted - 2008.10.22 23:22:00 -
[236]
This is my vote against this issue: I support CCP's decision to eliminate ghost training.
-- Becq Starforged Ushra'Khan
The Flame of Freedom Burns On! |
Marlona Sky
Caldari Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.10.23 06:49:00 -
[237]
The emo rage quit tears are very flowing in this pointless thread. But they taste so good.
1. CCP says they are going to fix lag issue. 2. CCP removes 'Ghost Training' 3. Cheap players quit. 4. Rest of EVE players who pay to play get better frame rates.
Niiiiiiiiiiice.
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Cyberman Mastermind
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Posted - 2008.10.23 09:50:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Talsha Talamar 2. It certainly influenced design decisions profoundly (required skill portfolios for new ships or equipment, training difficulty for new skills, a.s.o.)
Wait a sec, you're saying that because of Ghost Training, CCP decided to make some skills a month long and have them as requirement for new ships?
I tried a half dozen replies, but I think this fits best into this forum and sums it up just as well:
WTF? |
Adelina Impudica
|
Posted - 2008.10.23 13:34:00 -
[239]
Originally by: Moustache McGee Ok Imma sum up all the reasons why ending "Ghost Training" is dumb right here so people can refer to them all in one big tl;dr:
1. It has been referred to as a feature of the game.
See any of the twenty posts in the first pages of the Dev Blog discussion thread for a link to the Player Guide. Obviously, in addition to being a contributing factor to people subscribing to the game (the cancellation of which will obviously result in canceled accounts and possible loss of future customers), this also spells out that CCP is being intentionally deceitful as to their reasons for terminating "Ghost Training."
2. Because a player works in Eve to make money, not to gain skill points, there is no undue advantage provided to inactive accounts.
In Eve, skill points are acquired by clicking a button, then coming back in a few days to click another button and train a different skill. There is no hard work involved. Instead, work in Eve is used to acquire ISK, which can even be used to bypass the timesink that is skill training by purchasing more advanced characters. A good metaphor is that of two players, Todd and Frank. Todd lets his account lapse training Carrier V, while Frank keeps it subscribed while training the same skill. However, over the course of a month, Frank works hard to earn Isk. At the end of the month, both characters can fly a carrier, but Frank, having worked hard and paid his subscription, actually has the carrier.
3. CCP gains more money from the subscriptions of multiple sporadically subscribed "Ghost Training" accounts than a single perpetually subscribed account.
This one is simple math: let's return to Todd and Frank. Todd runs two accounts over a year, both of which are lapsed and "Ghost Training" for three months out of the year, while Frank runs a single account subscribed for the entire year. Assuming they both pay in one month intervals of 14.99 per month:
Todd's Accounts: 179.40 * 0.75 * 2 = 269.10 Frank's Account: 179.40 * 1.00 * 1 = 179.40
Therefore, in addition to not being played for three months out of the year (thus reducing strain on CCP's servers, however little), Todd's two "Ghost Training" accounts bring in more money than Frank's single perma-subscribed account.
There are other reasons, but most of them are on a case-by-case basis, and I figure three massively glaring flaws should be enough to warrant a change of plans.
Further TL;DR:
Preventing "Ghost Training" is bad for CCP. Many accounts are cancelled and some accounts are never created at all, resulting in less money.
Preventing "Ghost Training" is bad for players. The true advantage in "Ghost Training" is given to permanently subscribed players, who are constantly earning Isk and making more money than "Ghost Training" players, while gaining skill points at the same rate.
I pay 3 account with real money, so explain me why you are not paying for something you use. Is like my monthly fee will cover your skill training on ghost mode, and that is not fair. I am not a fun of CCP, but they need money to keep everything running. Btw, you guys complaining about stop of gost training, are you working for free in RL?why ccp employers do that.
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Lightway
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:22:00 -
[240]
Good job with ending of ghost training. I think CCP will lose more money if they reactivate ghost training. First of all, players that use frequently this feature have multiple account and use them alternatively, this mean that pay in total for one account and train skills on 2 accounts. Ans this is an unfair advantage over the regular players. Second, if ghost training will be reactivates, will look like CCP agree with that and will encourage players to use it, and this means that more and more players will use ghost training and CCP will get less money. Good job CCP
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ArymAramanska
Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.10.23 14:32:00 -
[241]
Hooray CCP!
*Not Sarcastic*
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Smokii
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 01:39:00 -
[242]
The newly named "Ghost Training" feature is what keeps me resubing. Bring it back. |
Warp Knight
Shadows of the Dead Elitist Cowards
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Posted - 2008.10.24 03:51:00 -
[243]
I'm fine with no ghost training as long as a skill queue is implemented in order to allow those actually paying for the game to not get screwed by not being able to login due to RL issues.
==============================
Work is for people that don't know how to plunder. |
Sanity Lost
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 07:33:00 -
[244]
CCP really messed up with this one. Ghost training should stay. |
Atius Shinkan
UK Corp Mostly Harmless
|
Posted - 2008.10.24 18:09:00 -
[245]
Originally by: Oncely Magnanimous canceling my 5 accounts as soon as they open the Account Management section back up.
well im sure you keep cancelling them all the time anyway so....
Good thing that CCP finally got around to fix this |
Seth Vorlar
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:30:00 -
[246]
Bad move CCP reverse it
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Inspiration
|
Posted - 2008.10.25 11:42:00 -
[247]
Ghost training always was a big annoyance to me as I felt like peeps that did it were cheating on me. It promotes offline "gaming" and made characters a form of commodity to trade around that were build using free time. It removes the eve experience of growing up and adapting all the way.
Ghost training dead.... - good for every real EVE player out there!
Do not even think of trying to counter this change. There will be more players helped by discontinuing it then hurt. |
Hyjinx McStagger
Gallente Elko Bail Bonds
|
Posted - 2008.10.28 23:19:00 -
[248]
Ghost training needs to stay out ... To quote/paraphrase so many others - Training is part of the game, and if you want to play you need to pay.
If at first you don't succeed, then give up -- no sense making a damn fool of yourself. :-) |
Ryuu Katsu
Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 00:14:00 -
[249]
I have already made my feelings towards this change clear in the sticky-forumblog-with-no-end thread that deals with this plan by CCP.
Needless to say, I am against it, and have now already taken steps in preparation to my response plan to cut down from two to one accounts indefinately as soon as my GTC expires on the account in question. ======================== Real men structure tank.
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HONKSTER
|
Posted - 2008.10.29 14:24:00 -
[250]
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nathice douglen
Assisted Homicide Free Trade Zone.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:26:00 -
[251]
Muhahahaha |
ArymAramanska
Minmatar m3 Corp BlackWater.
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Posted - 2008.10.29 14:31:00 -
[252]
Thumbs down to the post.
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Odetta Harpy
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Posted - 2008.10.31 14:06:00 -
[253]
support or ill bump all over you :)
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Wentau
|
Posted - 2008.10.31 16:32:00 -
[254]
I disagree with this. Though it sucks to lose the "ghost training", it never made sense to me in the first place. I couldnt understand why one could get a benefit from this game and yet not pay. That is just bad business.
U pay = u play.
If you are paying you can get the advantages of playing - ie: trianing.
Now, however, when are you guys gonna implement a skill queue so that we can get 100% benefit from paying? THIS, my friends is the real insult! Why cant i train things at the pace i want in the order i want without having to center my life around my home computer EVEN THOUGH IM PAYING FOR THIS GAME?!?!?!?!?!
Remove ghost training? I understand the business sense of this decision.
Continue to refuse to give us a skill queue even though WE ARE PAYING FOR THIS GAME and MANY PEOPLE SUPPORT IT? I dont understand the business sense of this decision.
You guys are as random as the wind.
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Brevada
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2008.10.31 18:41:00 -
[255]
Why not just decrease the training speed by 50%? I think this would be the best option because I both agree and disagree with it being in the game and being taken out.
Its always nice to come back to eve and being able to use a shiny new toy (i've been playing on and off for about 5 years now) But I think its being abused by people who have a skill that takes over 30 days to train pay for a month and cancel the account effectively gaining free training time while dualing to another account. This would take that skill over 60 days to train, but it would still train basically stopping the effectiveness of this.
THAT BEING SAID.
For people that genuinly cancel their account because they legitimately wanna take a break or just have been bored, can still have the option of setting a long skill to train and coming back later whenever they feel like coming back, as usually (especially for me) most people that genuinly want a break take a break for 3-4 months anyways.
That stops the abuse of someone that has two accounts and sets one skill to train and cancels it earning them 7 free days, while they play another toon, and still rewards people and makes them want to return after those breaks.
Sorry if this doesn't make too much sense. My brain is fried as I've been at work since 5 am
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Abrazzar
|
Posted - 2008.11.01 00:16:00 -
[256]
Strange. The official thread has more pages than this issue here has votes. How come?
-------- Ideas for: Mining
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night shiftstar
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Posted - 2008.11.01 04:21:00 -
[257]
i have to travel a lot, sometimes to remote places. 4 more than 1ns, i was coght b real wars going on. Wen i get the chance to get to a pc, the server was down. Lol. or my account... so, by the order of ideas of pipls that defend ccp, during dt, no training ! during EXTEEEEEEEENDED dt's NO TRAINING !! ...and wen serves frick out like last time, few days ago: NO BLOODY TRAINING 4 ANYONE !!!(?)
CMON!!! get real...
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night shiftstar
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Posted - 2008.11.01 04:29:00 -
[258]
oh, by the way; wen we r not loged? should we b skilling?^^
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trading hub
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Posted - 2008.11.02 03:56:00 -
[259]
why is this **** not up ? go up baby ! )
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Remorox
Morne Attitude
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Posted - 2008.11.03 07:54:00 -
[260]
Really bad change. Here's 3 accounts that won't ever be activated again.
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Vincent Santoro
Gallente CaldaCorp Quantum Star Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.06 15:21:00 -
[261]
Edited by: Vincent Santoro on 06/11/2008 15:22:13
Originally by: Simen123 make it worth returning after a break
You make it sound like Ghost training was used by CCP as a bribe to keep subscribers... I'm all for the removal of Ghost training, you pay to play, simple. Ghost training was a way to progress through the game without paying, which I think is stupid.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:15:00 -
[262]
Why is this still going on?
>.<;;;
Isn't just a bit too obvious that this isn't going to change in the near future?
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Dariah Stardweller
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Posted - 2008.11.06 17:58:00 -
[263]
As it helps having multiple accounts I'm all for it!
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Rakaim
19th Star Logistics
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Posted - 2008.11.07 05:29:00 -
[264]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Edited by: Drake Draconis on 13/10/2008 21:30:25 I can clearly see why its a serious advantage of training up your char while not paying for your account.
Heck I'd call it an exploit.
CCP loses money over such things.... because your ganking them out of there hard earned money in supporting this game.
That's like saying I'll train _____ level V which takes over 30 days and not pay for one month of EVE online.
And then come back and reactivate the account and start paying for it but they dont get the one month back.
That's cheating the system.
Convenient or not.... I support CCP in there decision. If your not going to pay for your account... there should be a count down timer then everything on your account should just flat freeze. (Glorified pause button)
When re-activated the account should pick up where it left off.
As for the timer? 48 hours or something... not too long to make it abuse-able... but long enough for someone to figure out where to get the cash to pay for it again.
Sorry folks... but putting a stop to an exploitable feature is something I want to see. People who pay for this game pay to play it and train there char's on it. If your not going to play the game just to train up your char... you shouldn't be able to train up your char by NOT playing the game for extended periods of time.
/me emphatic thumbs down
I COULD HAVE NOT said it better myself. This sums up my feelings on ghost training completly.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2008.11.07 16:43:00 -
[265]
o7
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Taiida
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Posted - 2008.11.07 20:26:00 -
[266]
Edited by: Taiida on 07/11/2008 20:26:53 I think I would rather see a compromise on this issue rather than a flat-line aye or nay to the end of ghost training. I would assume there would be a 3 month time limit on canceled accounts to be completely removed from the game, in consideration of those whom actually have real life issues and therefore have to go for a long period of time off of the game.
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Zebba
The Phoenix Rising
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Posted - 2008.11.16 22:32:00 -
[267]
Edited by: Zebba on 16/11/2008 22:31:44 http://oldforums.eveonline.com/?a=topic&threadID=896318&page=1
186 pages so far, 5556 posts but nothing from CCP. |
Marconus Orion
Amarr Astroglide X
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Posted - 2008.11.16 22:47:00 -
[268]
Training is playing.
You should have to pay to play.
I'm tired of all you whiners complaining, "OMG, I have to pay to play?!"
If you can't afford to pay a monthly subscription but expect CCP to allow you to play for free then go find something else to play. You rage quiting will not be missed.
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Odessima
Caldari The Black Rabbits The Gurlstas Associates
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Posted - 2008.11.17 04:24:00 -
[269]
Edited by: Odessima on 17/11/2008 04:26:18 Thumbs Down!!
I find it funny all the ones saying how they are leaving because they cant ghost train anymore, even though in a majority of causes CCP wont miss it because they werent paying for it anyway, except when their long skill has finally finished and have to log in to change it again.
For the ones with multiple accounts, it is a bit of a problem but I would think with the ability to have 3 characters logged into game there is a fair bit of opportunity to run missions, mine build to make enough isk to buy GTC's fairly easily.
I dont agree with account deletion after 3 months (someone mentioned it above), because if you are deployed get sick or otherwise unable to access your account, it would be unfair to come back and have to start over again.
Oh yeah and I have 3 accounts and I pay for all of them, I dont expect free skill trains.
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GRiMsReAPeR
Department of Empire Mining Control RUDE Alliance
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Posted - 2008.11.17 05:40:00 -
[270]
uggh |
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Zanpt
|
Posted - 2008.11.18 12:42:00 -
[271]
The nerf of unsubbed training has been the most ill-advised and destructive change CCP has made to Eve in the 2-1/2 years I have been in the game. Like many others, I am reducing the $$ I send to CCP from the $1,620 annualized when all my accounts were active, as they were when the nerf was announced.
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Mas Selamat
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Posted - 2008.11.22 18:58:00 -
[272]
Bring back ghost training!
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.11.22 21:09:00 -
[273]
I don't like MMORPGS much. "Ghost training" feature, which is now called a bug, was a reason why i started playing EVE. If CCP has money troubles, they'd better fire financial advisers, who come up with such *great* ideas. And PR managers clever enough to turn features into bugs. So i'm voting for returning ghost training.
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Von Domiki
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Posted - 2008.11.22 21:12:00 -
[274]
Originally by: Marconus Orion Training is playing.
You should have to pay to play.
I'm tired of all you whiners complaining, "OMG, I have to pay to play?!"
If you can't afford to pay a monthly subscription but expect CCP to allow you to play for free then go find something else to play. You rage quiting will not be missed.
It's not about money. It's about CCP's lies and features turning into bugs.
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Dantes Revenge
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Posted - 2008.12.30 01:11:00 -
[275]
I must admit that I've had 3 accounts up till now. If I was short of funds, I'd let one account slide but at least he was still training. It's only one level FFS, it wasn't as if we could queue up several skills to train one after the other. A month later when I got paid, I would pay his account again but only one of my accounts (my main) has skills that would take over a month to train at the moment so I would still lose training time. Most of us use all of our accounts and having one not active is actually a set-back. I don;t know how CCP came to the conclusion that it aids farming characters, especially now that we can only buy 60 day GTC's now and not 30 day.
Either they introduce a queue or they re-instate ghost training since one would negate the possibility of the other. It seems like CCP want it both ways and if that's the case, I'll be looking for another game to play. I know CCP has it's current financial problems, we all do with the recession at the moment but taking ghost training away from players is not going to force them to spend money they haven't got.
I've started to get into Taikodom now and it looks to be quite good once it's past Beta. Playing it for free right now but if I quit Eve, I'll have the resources to pay for it and get the good stuff.
Most of my old friends from Eve have quit now, I really starting to think It's time I moved on as well and this, along with the onslaught of nerfs recently, is beginning to make me feel more serious about it. The only reason I have stayed is because I have invested a lot of time in my characters so it would be a shame to biomass them but it's a game and if I feel that I can no longer play it because of recent changes, I'll go ahead and do it.
-- There's a simple difference between kinky and perverted. Kinky is using a feather to get her in the mood. Perverted is using the whole chicken. All this has happened before and will happen again |
Gramtar
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2008.12.30 05:51:00 -
[276]
I fully support training one skill while an account has expired.
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Jarwlarn Chigose
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:50:00 -
[277]
Why ghost training should be re-enabled? Training times. Long, long, LONG training times. There's nothing quite like the training times in Eve anywhere else.
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JVol
Amarr The IMorral MAjority
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Posted - 2009.01.05 15:57:00 -
[278]
Originally by: Orion Moonstar **** ccp, if they take this feature out I'm not playing this game anymore
LOL you werent playing the game anyways, who cares what you want
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Sedious Bloke
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Posted - 2009.01.10 03:03:00 -
[279]
I really really don't give a **** :D |
Axel Vindislaga
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Posted - 2009.01.10 05:25:00 -
[280]
ABSOLUTELY NOT! This one of the most blatant cases of MMO cry babyism I have ever seen. YOU HAVE NOT PAYED FOR THE SKILL TRAIN... you char is not active... he is lucky to be remembered for you. MEGA thumbs down. If it ever was advertised as a "feature" of eve I can understand why it is now referred to as a bug. Personally I see people getting irritated at having to address billing issues over and over again with people who complain over a few bucks... I've been there but I am better now... PHEW. Mutter Grumble |
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Par'Gellen
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.01.16 13:28:00 -
[281]
Pay to train. Otherwise go away.
Most definitely NOT signed! |
dr doooo
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Posted - 2009.01.16 23:42:00 -
[282]
Skill training is part of the game. To play the game, you pay. To train skills, you pay |
Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.01.17 07:48:00 -
[283]
I support no pay - no train.
Thank you CCP for putting a stop to this.
No support for the whiners. Those who threatened to quit over this, please do so promptly ~ Santiago Fahahrri Galactic Geographic |
Dasfry
Caldari Demio's Corporation 101010 Alliance
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Posted - 2009.01.17 08:49:00 -
[284]
Edited by: Dasfry on 17/01/2009 08:51:22 Edited by: Dasfry on 17/01/2009 08:49:47
Originally by: Moustache McGee let's return to Todd and Frank. Todd runs two accounts over a year, both of which are lapsed and "Ghost Training" for three months out of the year, while Frank runs a single account subscribed for the entire year. Assuming they both pay in one month intervals of 14.99 per month:
Todd's Accounts: 179.40 * 0.75 * 2 = 269.10 Frank's Account: 179.40 * 1.00 * 1 = 179.40
Therefore,... Todd's two "Ghost Training" accounts bring in more money than Frank's single perma-subscribed account.
Your numbers are flaw'd and clearly setup to support your point of view. You cannot put a fix'd number on how often Todd is on. Without any research.
Lets give another example... mine clearly setup in favor of my point of view. Joe who is subscribed sporadicly, and Frank's who is perma-subscribed.
Joe's Accounts: 179.40 * 0.40 * 2 = 143.52 Frank's Account: 179.40 * 1.00 * 1 = 179.40
Therefore, Frank's permanate account yields more money for ccp, and less resources on both time and server resources managing multiple accounts.
**** 90% of statistics are made up on the spot |
Roymundo
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2009.01.17 09:32:00 -
[285]
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I will no renew my subscription to my third account if this goes through.
you need a hobby. sorry to be the one to say it....
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Saphirro
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Posted - 2009.01.17 23:14:00 -
[286]
Originally by: Roymundo
Originally by: Etien Aldragoran I will no renew my subscription to my third account if this goes through.
you need a hobby. sorry to be the one to say it....
Like maybe... oh I don't know....Eve Online? |
Newbee
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Posted - 2009.01.18 12:47:00 -
[287]
this drama was one step too far from my point of view...
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Deldrac
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Posted - 2009.01.19 02:59:00 -
[288]
Supported until CCP stop being ******ed and we get a fricking skill queue. |
Dani SP
Rupture Farms Mining
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Posted - 2009.02.13 20:11:00 -
[289]
Originally by: Deldrac Supported until CCP stop being ******ed and we get a fricking skill queue.
that is about the same...
no PAY - no skills
and in your case:
no PLAY - no skills
stop crying you dudes, CCP could care less if 4 dudes got mad at them and cancel their suscribptions
kthx ;)
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Stick Cult
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Posted - 2009.02.13 22:43:00 -
[290]
Skill training is not THE game. It is part of the game, for sure, but it is not THE game. That would suck. Someone (Joe) who ghost trains ____ to level V is at a DISadvantage to the other guy (Bob), who trains the same skill to level V, because Bob is still playing for the month or so, making teh ISK to buy his ship the the new skill will get him, or just ISK in general. Joe, after he comes back, sure, he can fly the ship, but he can't afford the ship. Ghost training puts the player at a disadvantage to players who don't. |
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Miner Nine
Band of Brothers
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Posted - 2009.02.15 01:43:00 -
[291]
Ghost train forever
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Cataracts
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.03.09 08:55:00 -
[292]
This change is stupid. Allowing a skill to train when someone takes a break from the game encourages return business.
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Saggy Glands
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Posted - 2009.03.09 09:10:00 -
[293]
Edited by: Saggy Glands on 09/03/2009 09:10:08 Bring back ghost training.
Calling it an 'abused bug' is a absurd joke when it was touted as a 'feature' not so long ago in CCP's own player guide and marketing information.
Let me guess though, the inability to train all the characters on your account concurrently is still a feature and not a bug. |
jarhu
Blend.
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Posted - 2009.03.19 15:25:00 -
[294]
I hope CCP will see that ghost training is a necessity.
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Isaac Starstriker
Amarr Celestial Ascension Tenth Legion
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Posted - 2009.03.19 15:37:00 -
[295]
Nope nada and no way. Pay to Play. In this case, Pay to train skills. I stand by CCP's decision for Ghost Training.
--Isaac Isaac's Haul*Mart
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Incantare
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Posted - 2009.03.19 15:58:00 -
[296]
Supported but it won't happen :(, there's too much money in play.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Worlds End Consortium
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Posted - 2009.03.19 16:21:00 -
[297]
Look everyone! Point and laugh at the idiot that posted!
X O D =============== CEO of Clan Shadow Cadre www.shadowcadre.com ===============
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Erika Bronz
The Wyld Hunt
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Posted - 2009.03.23 10:10:00 -
[298]
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Korrakas
Legion of Ascension Beyond Ascension
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Posted - 2009.03.23 22:21:00 -
[299]
yes for BS V over the hols
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Johli
Caldari AWE Corporation Intrepid Crossing
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Posted - 2009.03.24 01:52:00 -
[300]
tl;dr I want to not pay to advance myself in an internet spaceship game.
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SZ Rota
Caldari Esto Perpetua
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Posted - 2009.03.24 14:50:00 -
[301]
Signed.
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Lagerstars
No Limit Productions Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.04.01 06:09:00 -
[302]
This needs to come back, as per some other replies, sometimes people arent away from the game because they want to be, but because of RL circumstances.
-----------------------------------------
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Tyby
Viper Squad Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2009.04.03 09:22:00 -
[303]
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Soma Khan
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Posted - 2009.04.03 15:33:00 -
[304]
Originally by: Tyby I wantz to play and character farm for free!!!111 gief NAO!!!11
fixed that for you ___
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