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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 6 post(s)
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.17 14:59:00 - [1] Edited by: Tivookz on 17/10/2008 15:00:20 To all those people saying that oh why should John Doe be able to cancel his sub and train carrier lvl 5 without having to pay a nickle for it. Well my answer to you is, he doesn't. He simply takes advantage of the fact that it's possible and convenient and he needs to take a break for some reason, like me. One does not take a break just because of a long skill. I have never cancelled my subscription just because I had a looong skill train ahead of me, because I dont know about you guys but I don't play this game to train skills, I play to fight. Nice move CCP, here in Sweden there is a saying that doesn't translate very good into english but it goes like this: "The one that is always craving for more will often miss the biggest reward." Right now you're being greedy. First it was not ok to get paid in dollars so u removed 30/90 day trial cards and replaced them with a more expensive 60 day card. Now you try to force the people who want to be able to train skills on their account while taking a break from eve to continue paying for their account. You just shot yourself in the foot. Marketing noobs. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:15:00 - [2] This is an outrage on a massive scale. You devs should all be treated like the "GREED" victim in the movie Seven or Se7en.
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 10:35:00 - [3] Originally by: Harudan Training Cruiser V. If it isn't done in a month I am not re-subscribing - Ever. Simple as that CCP. Maybe if this game was ú8.99 per month (Like the most successful MMO ever) I could stomach leaving the subscription running while I BOUGHT the skill. It's already in. It cancelled my Dreadnought lvl 5 skill train 2 days prior to completion ( oct 15th was day of implemention, oct 17 was day of completion of skill ) The break I took while training dread lvl 5 was a necessary one and I would have cancelled my sub even if I knew I wouldn't be able to continue skilling. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 13:18:00 - [4] Edited by: Tivookz on 18/10/2008 13:27:55 Removing ghost training is basically the same as telling your customers that anything they do while playing is not valid when their subscription runs out because after all, ghost training is a result of an action made while the account was active. Whats next? Removal of all sell orders when sub runs out? Because that's an action that lasts after sub runs out as well. Perhaps removal of corp? Removal of clones and contracts? Silly, greedy, lousy, ex mmo masters called CCCP.
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 13:34:00 - [5] Originally by: Clansworth Originally by: Aganola I know my post will drown in the topic nonetheless I feel compelled to say this: Help me calculate a 1 year subscription for an alt: 1: pre GTC nerf: 8 x 1 month GTC + 8 x 14 days ghost training 8 x 15$ = 120$ 2: post GTC nert (pre ghost nerf): 4 x 2 month GTC + 4 x 14 days ghost training 4 x 35$ = 140$ 3: post ghost nerf: 6 x 2 month GTC 6 x 35$ = 210$ And this DOES NOT EVEN INCLUDE THE PAYMENT (+210$!!) FOR THE REAL CHARACTER!!!! So basicly the cost of maintaining an alt doubled over the course of ONE year! Lot of people cannot keep up with this (myself included)... So this is the whine about... not just the screw over... :P Thank you You forgot to add one: Normal subscription, without ghost training 1 x 12-month subscription 1 x $131.40 = $131.40 sooo... still sounds affordable to me... and an aweful lot easier to have the account always active. For US players perhaps. However the majority of the eve players don't live in the US. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 15:38:00 - [6] Originally by: Gorek Loc Originally by: Parasite S maybe cause the people who care are people who stick with eve and that for a long time and dont want to see their best mmorpg changing to the worst they ever had... Eve is not family... This is a game that we pay for. If we don't like how it changes, we can leave. However, most of us do like the game, so we speak up to changes we don't like. My personal guess is that after the dust settles, CCCP has lost some of it's customers, and a bit of it's glow as a one-of-a-kind online game. Unless they choose to do the right thing and revoke the change, only then do they show they are a one of a kind mmo maker who actually listens closely to what the community demands. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 15:48:00 - [7] I wonder what Wrangler changed his mind about? Linkage Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.18 19:44:00 - [8] Originally by: ShadowDraqon Edited by: ShadowDraqon on 18/10/2008 19:18:25 CCP was losing money. This was bad since money is important. It pays stuff like computers, wages for employees, and hardware upgrades. Look at it this way: you are sacrificing your ghost training to have a better game with less lag. Stop whining. Stop with the iQuit threats. Move on. also haha 150th page Really? So let me get this straight, based on your logic, ccp are going to earn more money because people are leaving? 1+1 = 3? I subscribed 2 days ago, only to find out they nerfed ghost training. First thing I did was I logged off, cancelled my sub and entered warhammer. It's the only thing we can do to stop this wave of greedy devs. A matter of fact, CCP are richer than ever because the Icelandic krona fell like 30% in a single day which means the euro they had increased in value by 30% so I dont understand the greed. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.19 08:34:00 - [9] Originally by: Gabriel Virtus So, now that 2 of my accounts are cancelled and never to be revived again... I was thinking. If I am paying $15 a month for pure training time, I for damn sure have a training que to say the least. Give me one valid reason, this "service" that I am paying so much for and you are so terribly providing cannot manage to give PAYING customers the benefit of a training que? Glad it took a technology company 3 days to manage to fix a "technical" issue with the forums and the subsequent hiding of this and other threads on the same topic. No wonder you cannot manage to fix lag, or balance the game for that matter. You cannot even manage a forum. -GV Because they are incompetent. Like you just stated, they have trouble managing a forum. They can't even come up with valid reasons to change their game. Instead of lying so blatantly to the community about ghost training being a BUG they could have just said, we don't think that's fair anymore. I would still protest but it would be better than lying. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.19 13:26:00 - [10] Originally by: Johnnny B Not too sure if these have been asked.... does a exspired account now stop erning isk, if they have stuff on the market too? also on the contracts? Soon in an EVE online game near you: Removal of all sell orders and contracts when account runs out of subscription time. After all, ur not paying so why should u earn money!??! HAHA! Tiv

Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.19 19:21:00 - [11] Originally by: Soma Khan Tsk-tsk! Such bitterness over losing a freebie in a computer game! Is there a more convincing way to show that you have no life? Probably not. Some people don't like being lied to. I guess your girlfriend is free to do whatever she wants considering that statement. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.20 08:48:00 - [12] I might be going to the fanfest, this year it might be my last one tho. I have added 2 things to my must bring list: 1x Pitchfork 1x Torch CCP, I'm coming for you! Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.20 17:37:00 - [13] Originally by: supr3m3justic3 I dont think they are listing to us. VIVA LA RESISTANCE Patience and persistence. Removing ghost training was probably the worst move in EVE history. Increasing monthly cost I can understand even tho it sucked but this? Unforgivable unless revoked. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.22 06:49:00 - [14] Edited by: Tivookz on 22/10/2008 06:50:49 Originally by: T0rfifrans but I honestly canÆt think of any other company that allows you to skill up your character when youÆre not even paying for it. Maybe not, but what other game takes 20++ years to level up fully? Skilltraining is already bad as it is, I started playing in 2004 and I still haven't gotten the skills I want to have at lvl 5 to lvl 5. Removing ghosttraining will only enhance the gap between new players and old players and also aggrivate the old players who are frustrated about the time it takes to skill up say dreadnought lvl 5? Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.22 10:40:00 - [15] Edited by: Tivookz on 22/10/2008 10:42:54 T0rfifrans is a jackass because only a jackass could come up with an idea like this. Lets face it, if we allow this to happen then we are basically allowing them to remove the following features in the future: sell orders, pos stuff, contracts, research, manufacturing etc ) so thats why it's important that we say no to this right away. Like someone stated earlier 10000 clients is around 4% of all subscribers in EVE. Thats the number of people of this so called "surge" of people that triggered the decision to remove ghost training. Those 4% would have probably taken a break from EVE anyway, not to mention many of those 4% probably went off to try Warhammer online. It's not all black and white Torfifool and you're going to lose so much more if you don't revoke this change. Tiv
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.22 11:59:00 - [16] Originally by: T0rfifrans "WeÆve got an expansion coming out called Quantum Rising" Quote: Amazingly the expansion is actually called Quantum Rise. But getting things right, not so important. The funny thing is, that he is a Senior dev and he doesn't even know the correct name of the expansion which is Quantum Rise, not Quantum Rising. That's like a Blizzard employee talking about their new Expansion for WoW called The Lich Kings Wrath, or was it Wrath Feat. Lich King + crew or what was it? Ah right.. it was Wrath of the lich King..
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.23 08:17:00 - [17] It's only a matter of time before they realize how big this mistake actually was. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.25 15:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Rasik Argimater None of us knows for sure yet what others are doing, but I have reduced my contribution to CCP's well being from $135/month ($1,620 annualized) to $75/month ($900 annualized). Those are just my accounts that have actually expired so far. Five more will expire between the end of Sep and 21 Nov. Will I keep them all inactive? No, I'm not quite ready for that. I will cycle through them, hopefully achieving an average of somewhere between 2-4 active accounts. I have some minimal corp and alliance business to attend to until I hand those off to other ppl. I have ceased researching, manufacturing, mining, trading and running missions. Those are all things that play into the medium and long term, and I don't see a medium or long term for me in Eve anymore. Some review: Unsubbed training was never a bug. It was an active element of the addictive nature of Eve. It was a powerful lure to draw ppl back into Eve. The benefit of unsubbed training could only be realized by reactivating the lapsed account. Any seasoned programmer can easily figure out how they impemented training in Eve: Training does not involve game play. Training completion is actually an out-of-game waiting period. You can't use the new skill until the waiting period has run its course. But it's just a real world date/time. There is no training "process," there is no server load whatsoever, there is no "service" being provided by CCP. Since the acquisition of a skillbook and the player action to submit it for training a step can only be done while an account is active, and since the benefit of a training step can only be seen and enjoyed while an account is active, whether an account goes inactive between those two events is irrelevant. Since training, whether subbed or unsubbed, involves no server activity or processing of any kind, any claim of "free service" is a lie. It is more reasonable for us to view training steps as having been completely bought and paid for at the moment we click to start them, since the training is not a process and the completion is a real-world date/time -- a waiting period -- and nothing more. The way CCP originally designed and implemented training in Eve was simply brilliant. It was also entirely natural that completion of the current training step was unaffected by account status. To make it any other way would have required more work and server load (which they have now done). Why a company would have cut off a crucial element in its lure to draw people back into subscribing is incomrehensible. Even if they had done this without completely enraging so many subscribers, it would have cost them a drop in the level of active subscriptions. As it is it will certainly cost them a significant drop. There has been no information before or now that char farming has been a problem. This has only come up in wild speculation by ill-informed posters, most of whom lack the experience in Eve to understand how multiple accounts are actually used by real ppl. All the ppl I have met and worked with who have multiple accounts use them, often all the time. I don't personally know anyone who keeps one or more accounts inactive most of the time for the purpose of training. Maybe it happens but it can't be all that common. Except for those at lofty levels such as capital ship pilot, those of us with fewer than, say, 35 million skill points have few opportunities to train a long skill while an account is inactive. Those claiming that this is rampant should try it. On my skill paths I have had precious few skills even close to 30 days and those generally were not available to train when I had to let accounts go inactive. (continued...) Just finished reading your two posts and I just have one thing to say: Could not have said it better myself. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.27 15:49:00 - [19] Edited by: Tivookz on 27/10/2008 15:50:40 Originally by: OneSock Just downloading Wow and was reading the player guide. Seem like in Wow they treat their casual players with bit of respect: Quote: Most players will be in the Normal experience tier most of the time. The Rested tier is primarily intended for players that take a day or more off from playing or are very casual with their play schedules. This has enabled us to greatly reduce the experience necessary for all players to level regardless of which rest state tier they play under. So CCP talk about fairness, but should learn a less on from Wow. This is actually true and you get this "rested" experience even if your account is unsubscribed. Rested experience basically gives your character twice the experience he would normally gain when he kills a monster for a certain amount of time based on how long you've been logged off in a city/village. This gives players that have been away from the game for a month or so something to look forward to next time they log in. Very similar to ghost training actually, only now we don't have something to look forward to when we resubscribe. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.27 21:00:00 - [20] Originally by: oilio Maybe CCP are right - maybe players have short memories and they can get away with anything. If they're wrong, they're finished. It's a classic mistake to believe that players forget things. We don't forget, we just get exhausted talking about it but when the time comes to decide wether to stay or try a new game, the decision will be easier to make when you think back on issues like this one where over 5000 posts have been made without a single comment from CCCP. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008

Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.28 09:17:00 - [21] Edited by: Tivookz on 28/10/2008 09:22:07 To be honest I am not surprised T0rfifrans made this decision because lets face it, he is a former 3D artist that somehow became the Senior lead producer. Since when was it a good idea to let the ships cook, chef or whatever u wanna call it steer the ship? Decisions like this have to be considered for a long time and to be honest, considering the extremely short notice we were given prior to the removal of ghost training this was nothing but a rushed decision made by a person who simply exploited his position. Of course the rest of CCP are officially supporting this decision but that's obvious, how would this look if we had representatives saying they don't support their senior producer? But in reality I predict the situation to be a little bit more infected than what we see on the surface. Because lets face it, ghost training might be something you give your customers for free but it is also a very strong factor when a player decides what to do with his free time after taking a break. 1. Return to eve and see that your long skill training finished and get motivated to continue or 2. Realise you don't have anything waiting for you except what you had when you left and get tempted to try something else.
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.29 08:15:00 - [22] Edited by: Tivookz on 29/10/2008 08:19:24 Edited by: Tivookz on 29/10/2008 08:18:11 Originally by: Yeknom Nam Petition Body This account(_ACCOUNTNAME2_) was created using the 'Power of Two' promotion from its parent account _ACCOUNTNAME_. This second account was created with the knowledge and existence of "Ghost Training." I am not going to argue the necessity for or against the removal of this feature. Nor am I going to argue whether "Ghost Training" is a feature or long existing well documented bug. However, I will argue that the ability of "Ghost Training" was the reason this Power of Two account was created. I will argue that two accounts, for a single player, should not be necessary to fully experience an online video game. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training"(the way it was handled) has violated my trust in your company. I will argue that the recent promotion of "Power of Two" and the end of "Ghost Training" constitutes "bait and switch." I do understand the load my unwanted characters/accounts may have on your server hardware. I suggest deleting them completely from your database to avoid this load. I am also asking for reimbursement of the $49.95 that was deducted from my account for the creation of '_ACCOUNTNAME2_'. Let me state this again. I was taken advantage of and I want a reimbursement of the money I feel was wrongly taken. I want nothing more to do with eve-online and want nothing more to do with CCP. If this is not the proper avenue to submit this complaint/request, I am asking the reader to make sure it is directed to the proper persons or to contact me with information necessary to submit this complaint to the proper persons. Thanks for your time. Have a nice day. **** * *****.@gmail.com CCP's first reply, only took two days, that's a record right? * Sent - 10/17/2008 10:25:00 AM Hi. I'm afraid that we can not offer you a reimbursement due to this change. Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support ********************End of first CCP reply******************* ********************My reply Sent - 10/20/2008 6:30:00 PM Well, that was short and bitter. Just a big "no." No offer to meet me half way, no offer to somehow prorate the time played with the remaining month's left on this subscription. I wonder what my CC company thinks about "bait and switch?" SIGNED- **************CCP's latest reply****************************** Sent - 10/22/2008 9:40:00 AM (seems to be a two day turnaround on everything) This "Ghost Training" was never advertised as a part of the power of 2 offer you paid for. The offer was for a new account which would be open for six months at a reduced price, this is exactly what you have received. Best regards Senior GM Panic EVE Online Customer Support My final thoughts. Getting a dck in my a$$ wasn't advertised either... Go fsck yourself. Yeah "Ghost Training" was not advertised as part of Power of Two, you dipsht. It was understood for all accounts not just those newly created ones with a stupid seasonal sales promotion. Anyways I'm done, I have been done. I have only signed on this account to view the petition and forum since this change. Know this CCP. I will never touch anything and I will never recommend anything that has your name associated. -2 Add to your petition that you read in the players guide that skills progress on accounts that are unsubscribed and that you were fooled to believe this was the way it works. Because that is something they ninja edited after ghost training hit/after you initiated your power of two account. Also, to quote a casual player taken from another forum: Originally by: jagdpanther I played eve off and on, and this "ghost training" actually gave me incentive to come back after a break because I knew I would have a nice big shiny new skill waiting for me. Oh well, one more reason for me not to play eve at all anymore. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.30 08:49:00 - [23] Edited by: Tivookz on 30/10/2008 08:51:17 Keep digging your own grave CCP. Even if you keep giving your wife ( us ) new shiny presents ( ambulation, graphics etc etc ) she will still remember how you cheated on her. We will not forget or forgive you for this unless you make it right. Is it really worth losing several hundred if not thousands of customers? Don't you devs learn anything from the past? Take a look at SWG and how Sony destroyed that game by covering their ears going LALALALLALAA each time the community told em what they wanted the game to be like. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me. T20 was once. I won't be fooled twice. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.30 17:56:00 - [24] I like how CCP and some fanboys tend to believe ghost training is something that was given for FREE which is by now a classic misconseption. You paid for your account and your subscription so therefore you paid for the skill to start training. You also need to pay for the account again to utilize the skill you chose to train. Nothing is given for free. A matter of fact, stopping your skill from training is basically stealing money from you since the actions you made while the account was active become invalid. What would WoW look like if you took a break and when you came back you were lvl 69 instead of 70 because the monster you killed suddenly became unkilled because you don't pay for the service anymore. EVE is not different, only here you select what skill to train and it then trains it over a period of time instead. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.30 18:35:00 - [25] Edited by: Tivookz on 30/10/2008 18:38:21 Quote: I didn't make the comparison to WOW, Tivookz did. I responded. Sorry if I didn't make that clear. The "benefit" for being online is actually playing the game. The whole point of the unique training system was so that you weren't penalized for not being able to be online on a regular basis. The point was NOT to be able to train whether your account was being paid for or not. You're not able to train your account when it's not being paid for. It's not like you can set a huge skillqueue or log on when the account is not paid for and change skills etc like you're making it sound like. I'd rather call it finishing the skill you activated when you actually paid for the subscription and was online. WoW is easy to max out and they still have their own "ghost training" system in place to give returning players a free boost because you still have to pay for your account again to reap the riches from the skill that finished. Like I said, saying that ghost training skillpoints are given for free is just bs. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.10.31 11:23:00 - [26] Originally by: Tasty Bit Originally by: Lorac Caladon Please don't discuss the forum moderation here. To discuss problems or concerns, please send an e-mail to: [email protected]. Applebabe At least someone from CCP is watching this thread, even if it is only to delete stuff. Don't confuse simple moderators with developers. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.01 07:51:00 - [27] Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 07:52:25 Originally by: Pheleus Still going strong!! So why can we only train one skill per account?? with 3 character slots? Money No matter how much you have your dollar still isnt worth anything adn it isnt goign to help. Exactly, which is why multiple training on one account will never ever happen because even if T0rfifrans was stupid enough to believe that nerfing ghost training would actually increase subscriptions (rofl and noob are the only words I can think of) he won't unnerf something that would over-night decrease the number of alt accounts by lets say 20-30% The reason a skill queue haven't been implemented into the game is because as someone at CCP said: "We wan't people to log onto the game and play" which could also be the most stupid comment I've ever heard because they totally miss the point of a skill queue. A skill queue would not be there to let players skill without logging on because we don't play EVE to skill our characters, we play whenever we have the chance to play because EVE is more than just skilling stuff. It would be there so that hardcore players won't have to wake up at f**king 3am to change skills like I did one time when I was young and stupid. Reinstating ghost training and adding a skill queue for those with active accounts would only bring revenue to CCP, not the other way around. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.01 07:56:00 - [28] Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did. Linkage Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday. And this friday was strike friday. That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds. __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.01 12:50:00 - [29] Originally by: Vix633 Edited by: Vix633 on 01/11/2008 12:40:30 Originally by: Kerfira Originally by: Tivookz Edited by: Tivookz on 01/11/2008 08:02:04 Oh and I almost forgot: did someone monitor coldfront last night? I did. Linkage Around 3000-4000 less people logged on than there was last friday. And this friday was strike friday. That's roughly how many people we are talking about, not in the hundreds. So you use less people logging in on Halloween friday as an argument that ghost training is killing the game? Seriously, head off for a brew like a lot of people did yesterday hint hint One that dwells under bridges alert Oh, well on that topic I can just give you a friendly FYI say that Halloween is celebrated tonight saturday the 1st and not on friday like in the states. Nobody here parties on a damn friday, you're tired, you've just finished the daily gym routine and you just want to go to bed or play a game. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.02 22:22:00 - [30] Originally by: Squirrrel I think the cancellations haven't hit CCP yet, so they don't know if it's just a threat until the game time runs out in less than 30, 60, 90 days time. Tgey would also be hoping people will resub to try Quantum Rise, and that it will sway those who say they have had enough. Risky game to play, unless either people haven't cancelled and they see that, or the numbers that have aren't really much of a bother to them at this point. Oh please, Quantum Rise is a large update at best, nothing worth resubbing for. Besides, we didn't cancel our accounts because of lack of content. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008

Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.03 07:41:00 - [31] Originally by: Richard Aiel Originally by: Brother Welcome So any official response yet? Or is the plan just to wait us out and trust the issue will be lost in collective amnesia? Lamentably that's a tried-and-true method of corporate malfeasance. -vk the official response is f-uck you we're doing this if you like it or not. If you DONT like it, the door is that way. That's the problem with online based companies with no phone line and with no office to visit to show your dissatisfaction. Our rage would be more real if they actually heard our voices but now we're nothing more than a couple of lines on the forum that can easily be ignored. CCP have grown too big for their own good because if they treat us that disliked the removal of ghost-training no matter how many good arguments we have about it in this way then they will treat everyone this way sooner or later. For example if you don't care about ghost-training then fine, don't. But remember that the day will come when they do something that **es you off just like this **ed us off to the point of unsubscribing but whatever you type here to complain about it will just fall on deaf ears and echo out like it never existed. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.03 09:16:00 - [32] Originally by: iXetus What if the only guys watching these forums are the ones that royally screwed up with this "bugfixing" and even if they understand in what deep **** are they, they're just afraid to lose their jobs, so they keep it secret from their bosses? Maybe it would be a good idea to try and find at least some e-mail of some CCP boss, so we can show him the link to this thread? I think the message would become clearer if someone just printed out the whole topic and then shipped it all in a box to CCPs office or something. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.05 18:14:00 - [33] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: lisacurie Another whiner leaving - can I have your stuff? i was here first! however, in the spirit of sharing, i don't mind giving you half of his stuff. Can I have your stuff is like sooo 2006 or at best 2007, cut it out please, it was pretty funny the first time but now it's just a major annoyance as you won't be getting anyones stuff ever by just asking that question. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.05 22:01:00 - [34] Originally by: Shoukei Originally by: Squirrrel You kids... probably wouldn't really know how to use it and it would just end up getting broken. Now... be off with you. we just wanted their stuff, before they take them to one of those elderly people homes. you cant take it to your grave you know, so no reason for good stuff to go to waste. If we would give you anything worth mentioning you'd have plenty of cool toys to play with and thus a reason to continue to play thus increasing CCP's revenue. So I will be happy to take it with me to my grave because then at best one person will get frustrated and stop playing because of the endless grind required to make some real money. So no, you cannot have it. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.06 14:54:00 - [35] Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 14:55:03 Originally by: Fawziyyah I think that we are loosing this thread, I also have 2 more accounts, that will go expire and I won't be rushing back to reactivate them becouse of this issue. I won't be leaving EVE at all so if those of you that are hardcore about the issue and want to leave the game be so kind to make some donations for the poor Gallente, Caldari, Amarr and Minmatar childs that have lost their parents at the war... Contracts and donations can be made directly to me Thanks in antecipation to all the good souls out there... Lose? We cannot lose. Everything you see around you on this website is about our money. So since CCP has failed to keep you as a paying customer, you've won. CCP has us, the community, without us they are nothing. We on the other hand have hundreds of other mmo's to choose from. Linkage So no, if there's anyone who has lost anything it's CCP, especially since ghost-training was a major addiction feature because you always wanted to resubscribe to reap the riches from your xx day skill you trained while doing whatever u needed to do irl. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.06 14:58:00 - [36] On another note.. I wonder how much the developers of Black Prophecy gave T0rfifrans to make that enormously foolish mistake to remove the addicting feature called ghost-training. Or was it the devs of Jumpgate evolution? Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.06 20:37:00 - [37] Edited by: Tivookz on 06/11/2008 20:39:07 Originally by: Soma Khan Originally by: Squirrrel Edited by: Squirrrel on 06/11/2008 20:08:14 Originally by: Soma Khan I'm not here to give lectures on the basics of public relations damage control. Nor qualified I'd wager. Originally by: Soma Khan What I am mainly commenting on is the apparent conviction of some that having payed once or twice for a computer game is somehow equivalent to receiving some kind of nuptial rights to everything about it. I might actually want to hear that lecture though to be honest, it would probably be really funny. You know, people DO realise that CCP can change the content and mechanics of the game as they see fit. It's their game. We know that. However, it's not a game they put out for free. We know this too. We pay for it. And if you don't because you're using GTC, someone else is still paying for it. What people don't tend to like, what customers don't tend tolerate - and what is a great mistake when you want repeat custom - is when they are clearly lied to. Again, the WAY that CCP went about this change, rather than the change itself is largely a key factor. Yes, some people don't like the change itself. They pay, it's their prerogative. If you keep kicking a dog, chances are one day it's going to turn around and bite you. See what I mean, you can't stop. In a relationship this kind of behavior looks very much like 'codependency'. The fact that you refer to yourself as a 'dog being kicked' is also symptomatic. Knowing that you Soma Khan have been posting in this thread for a long time I can only assume that you are: A: A complete moron who doesn't have anything else to do irl but type in a thread he doesn't care about since you obviously don't care about ghost training. B: Hired by CCP to act as a troll in order to aggrivate us to give CCP a reason to lock this thread. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.12 07:54:00 - [38] Lots of good posts have been made lately. One thing I keep thinking about though is how CCP tend to brag about the rising subscriber numbers. 2006: 100,000 or something like that 2008: 241,000~ according to the fanfest videos. 2009: I bet it will be less than 241k considering how many people have threatened to quit in this thread alone. Will they remove the brag scene on the next fanfest? Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.13 16:06:00 - [39] Originally by: Fiona Mars Originally by: Jinx Barker 3) A referendum on the "Unsubscribed" training issue, where EVE players decide what they think by voting. Of course, a game wide eve-mail to every user with a "Yes/or No Question" - and then a tally. And, if the referendum, an honest referendum ever happens in this game while I am still alive, I would whet myself. CCP are a commercial enterprise. Grow up. Or do you expect Starbucks to ballot thier coffee drinkers every time a latte goes up a couple of cents? Get passed "CCP are our buddy gamers" to see that "CCP have shareholders" and you'll be better man. BTW, whet means to sharpen with a stone. I'd pay to see you do that to yourself. But that's maybe a horrible image, so I'm going back under a rock now. So everytime someone makes a price increase, we, the customers are just supposed to swallow that? No, we go somewhere else. Making a price increase or changing something that will force people to buy more might satisfy the shareholders because on paper it will look like they will earn more money but that piece of paper don't speak the voices of the customers. Ghost training is an excellent example of that. OK if EVE was the only MMO on the market I could understand Torfi, because then it's either their way or the highway. However, we have enough mmo's to choose from today that it would take several lifetimes to play them all as much as we've played EVE. __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE Pure.	Posted - 2008.11.14 17:28:00 - [40] Still no word from CCP. Well, here is one of my last words. Subscription Status: Cancelled Will be suspended2008-11-16 Total Number Of Payments: None of your business. Cancel Subscription Cancellation Expires: 2008-11-16 13:48:18 Remaining Playtime: 1d:20h:21m Goodbye. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008

Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE	Posted - 2008.12.18 09:04:00 - [41] Thanks for the free 5 days CCP, it won't make me re-subscribe though. I've been monitoring the topic while all my accounts have been inactive and to be honest I didn't think I'd get the chance to post again :P My concern is still the same: reconsider ghost training. Before this change I felt the urge to resubscribe to reap the riches from the skills that finished while I had to be away for a while. Now that I return from my missions around the globe I don't feel the need to subscribe at all, and I feel the reason for that is the lack of ghost training, I simply don't have something nice waiting for me. It's just like how it was when I left. Also, the fact that you've given all your players 5 free days to get into the game again only proves to me that you've lost a substantial amount of subscribers. Maybe not main accounts because the average amount of people online is still almost the same, however I feel that you might have lost alot of alt accounts though. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE	Posted - 2008.12.18 13:27:00 - [42] Originally by: Benedic You've already tipped over your cashcow (alt accounts), a 5 day free reactivation isn't going to get it back on it's feet. Question is, would a reintroduction of ghost training get it back on it's feet? I for one would at least reconsider activating my accs and going back to EVE full time if they did. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE	Posted - 2008.12.22 12:32:00 - [43] Quote: I highly doubt, they'll take the u-turn at all. They made (as I and other suspect) a bad move and will be too proud, to backpedale on that. They'll push it through just to keep some face. I don't think they will either, it would be good if they did because then they would prove they have a board of people who can admit they did wrong. Doing nothing only proves that CCP has the attitude of a little kid who refuses to beg for forgiveness no matter what, even if that would be the right thing to do. Time to show your true colors CCP. Oh and btw. Last day on my five free days. Thanks! But cheap gifts are just that, cheap. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008
Tivookz Caldari IMPERIAL SENATE	Posted - 2008.12.22 18:59:00 - [44] Originally by: Jobby I wonder how long it'll be before they go back and edit that patch note. Yeah.. it's been brought ut before but.. wow CCP must be really stupid if they think they can trick this mature community into thinking they considered it a bug. Since when does a company change how a "bug" works. Tiv __________________________________________________ Hating Cash Craving Productions since oct 15th 2008

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