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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |
Pallidum Treponema
Body Count Inc.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:54:00 -
[1201]
I've said it before, I'll say it again. This'll hurt CCP's bottom line in the long run. Heck, it'll hurt them in the SHORT run as well.
Just do a simple math check. How many accounts are using "ghost training" right now? A large part of those accounts would never have been active in the first place, since ghost training is, by definition, training that is done while NOT playing the account actively.
If you're NOT playing actively, why would you keep your account subscribed? Ghost training is a way to still advance your character while NOT playing actively, for a reduced cost.
CCP is making about 50% of the subscription fee, out of accounts that are NOT EVEN ACTIVE. Accounts that, in many cases, would've been left untouched, with NO subscription fees paid if ghost training did not exist. What's more, players would have less of an incentive to get back to the game, if they knew that they'd drop behind in the skill training curve.
CCP, start listening to your customers and try to think like the PLAYERS. I know you run a business. That's exactly why I'm telling you this. Keep your customers/players happy and you will make MORE money. Screw them over, and you'll lose money. It's as simple as that.
Ohyeah, new sig. Go figure.
PS: Hi Zulupark! :D
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Injuries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:54:00 -
[1202]
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
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Zbuntowany Kaloryfer
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1203]
Edited by: Zbuntowany Kaloryfer on 14/10/2008 07:58:00
Mayby you should decrease SP on innactive accounts - It`ll be good for all of us
I`ve got few accounts It`s time to leave this game
"
Dear EVE player,
According to our records you have cancelled an EVE account in the recent months. Our mission is to continuously make EVE a better game, so we're curious to find out why some EVE players chose to cancel their accounts. We therefore want to ask you a favor, if you can spare a few moments, to tell us why you chose to cancel and how you feel we can improve. We have hired Infosurv, Inc., an independent market research firm specializing in customer opinion measurement, to design and administer a customized survey on our behalf.
We'd sincerely appreciate if you could take part in it and give us your feedback on EVE Online. Infosurv will be sending the invitations out shortly, and your responses will remain confidential; they will only be used for internal purposes to improve EVE. We will never forward your personal information to any third party, government agency or extraterrestrial race planning world domination.
Thank you in advance for your feedback, and we look forward to the opportunities this process will give us to better understand have we can change EVE Online for the better.
Sincerely
Torfi Frans Olafsson
Senior Producer of EVE Online
"
And now you know why "......blame BoB erghhh blame CCP erghhhh blame White Wolf....."
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Broutte Minou
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1204]
 Originally by: Iridius Fervus
Originally by: Peter VonThal
So all this time until now this "bug" was used as a positive feature and a selling point of EVE.
pwnt
pwnt
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Planning Committee
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:56:00 -
[1205]
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
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EbilC
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:57:00 -
[1206]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
this! this! a thousand times this!!
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Jordan Musgrat
H A V O C
Triumvirate.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:58:00 -
[1207]
While it kind of makes sense, it's a bad idea. It's one of those things that you can somewhat justify, but you're still an ******* if you go through with it.
Also, you are lying. It was never a bug, it was never unintended. It was a documented game feature, and when you took ghost training off of Singularity? I believe it was some years ago, the EvE community was outraged, and you were quick to take it off and say "oh no, that's only going on the China server, you guys are fine."
Of course people want to get the most they can from their money, it's normal. But in doing this, you will lose many many subscriptions. It doesn't take you any amount of bandwidth or stress your servers in any way to continue to train skills while inactive. Other paying and active players are better off in every way than those training offline.
What this comes down to, as you alluded to, is this. You simply want more money. We see this with the bogus GTC changes, now this. GTC prices have caused some people to quit. This change will lose you many more active accounts.
From CCP's prespective, the only good thing this does is distract nerdrage from the nano nerf. Oh and by the way, that live dev blog was a joke, you never addressed the community's concerns. "how do you see small gang warfare exisitng postnerf?" CCP: "well, we're boosting the black ops BS..."
-----------
Primary is family values, secondary is 0.0... |
Stormwind Bloodfeather
Minmatar
Sogdian Traders Inc
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Posted - 2008.10.14 07:58:00 -
[1208]
Edited by: Stormwind Bloodfeather on 14/10/2008 08:02:05
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Tunnas
Originally by: Catherine Frasier
Originally by: Stormwind Bloodfeather
1. You advertised this as an INTENDED FEATURE of the game... for years.
Got proof?
proof
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill training, though).
For the 352651th time: Describing what happens is not the same thing as saying it was done that way on purpose. You put "INTENDED FEATURE" in caps and rightfully so, intent is the key question. Nowhere in the guide does it say "we planned it this way" rather than (like lots of other things in Eve) "it just worked out that way".
Your splitting hairs. They SAY skills continue to train even on inactive accounts. they do NOT say this is a bug and should not be used. Thus, their statement that skills continue to train, even on an innactive account, means it was an INTENDED FEATURE or they would have done the VERY SMALL code change to stop it from happening years ago.
simple.
Stormwind
In EVE, your only friend is your ship and it's weapons. All others are the enemy! |
Annaphera
Minmatar
Super Green Industries
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:00:00 -
[1209]
Originally by: Planning Committee
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
Doesn't help either side, really, because it also doesn't say if it was intended, he's just confirming what happens.
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Astria Tiphareth
Caldari
24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:00:00 -
[1210]
Sorry I don't buy this logic. I have never ghost trained, and could see a good reason to remove this if we ended up with a skill queue (this was one of the primary reasons not to have a skill queue, after the many arguments about it). I just don't understand why we have to have this PR song and dance, and that you actually expect us to believe it.
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
1. There was a way to progress a character in EVE without an active subscription.
2. CCP noticed a surge in the trend and decided to fix the leak
Really? A subscription minimum unit is a month. Just how many single levels of a skill take an entire 30 days? Sure, some of the later higher ranked ones do, but you'd be hard pressed to get to any of them in the space of a year of normal play barring a dedicated alt character. I'm not saying it's impossible, just that I don't believe that it's a hugely popular trend or one that is very effective/efficient - unless what we're actually saying is that titans, carriers, and other capitals are so dull and awkward that people have been ghost-training dedicated alts for them, in which case the game has far bigger problems.
Quote:
Ghost Training was an unintended feature where unpaid accounts of EVE Online were able to continue training skills. While this allowed players to run multiple characters on a shoestring budget, in all effect, this was a bug.
Bug? Unintended feature? For 5 years? I simply cannot believe it took you 5 years to notice this and fix it. Call it what it is - a change.
The actual change, I don't mind. What bugs me is the increasing trend of vagueness in some of these dev blogs. Telling it like it is may annoy a few more people, but it won't annoy those actually looking for a straight answer. Straight answers at least let you know where you stand.
___
My views may not represent those of my corporation, which is why I never get invited to those diplomatic parties...
Environmental Effects
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Lijhal
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:01:00 -
[1211]
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
Game Experience
1. More content, more ships, more missions, more 0.0, more tactical game , more "insert coin here"
please stay unique and no not become something similiar like SoE ... goddamned!
is this so hard ?
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jnky
The Righteous Few
Tygris Alliance
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:02:00 -
[1212]
I admit I was selling chars for isk but had to be active for 4 months out of 6 to achieve this. It was a nice feature (bug as you put it) but after this toon that will be ready to sell next month I will be stopping my spare account for good.
Not complaining about your decision just adding one more lost account to the rest stated in this (and the other) thread so you can get a rough figure of how much you will be loosing with this...Balance
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Lobo Ex
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:02:00 -
[1213]
This is a major bad mark on the part of CCP. I have one account, with one main character and one alt that I hardly ever use. I pay for my Eve time in Time cards and due to the nature of my job I am sometimes unable to get a new time card when the old time card expires so I have gaps in my subscription BTW made worse now by the fact that 90 day TC's are no longer available !!
In the past a gap in my time on Eve was not a major issue as I could rely on the continued training of my main character until I was able again to get a time card again now it looks at though I will not be able to do this.
I think this is an own goal CCP
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Zachastoi Zagamnu
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1214]
indeed, the surge IS working! 
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Shannia Star
Delphi Corporation
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1215]
Edited by: Shannia Star on 14/10/2008 08:04:19
Great. Money Money Money!!!
Remember to change your player guide!!!
Quote:
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive
http://www.eve-online.com/guide/en/g615.asp
Now saying its an unintended feature is total crap! It was a selling point once!
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CliveMerric
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:03:00 -
[1216]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: CliveMerric
CCP please dont spit in our faces by announcing that one of the major selling points of the game is an 'unintended feature'. Its insulting....
im taking 2 of my accounts offline because you see fit to remove the 1 major reason i keep coming back to this game after i get bored for a while.
good job
"Major selling point of the game"??? People keep saying this, and I just can't get my head around it. I see LOTS of ads for Eve around the web, and no small number of MMO sites...could someone point out the one they see that has this listed as a "major selling point" that is written by CCP? There's a dev post floating around that talks about ghost training as being "discovered"...how does one discover something one created intentionally?
im sorry i should have clarified, it was the major selling point for me in terms of getting more than 1 account. As a result of this im not as likely to reactivate my accounts whenever i come back. To me it makes eve more casual and affordable. Im truly sad to see that go. Im working on resigning my self that ccp will not go through with this. But im realizing that its their game and if they dont want people playing/paying for it that is their issue.
Clives BPC shop, Great deals!! |
Traxio Nacho
Dark Knights of Deneb
Against ALL Authorities
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:04:00 -
[1217]
As has already been mentioned many times if this was a "bug" why did you not only use this as a selling point but put it into your new player guide?
Quote:
Now a single customer that doesn't log into the servers may not weigh heavily on our database infrastructure, just as a single snowflake isn't that heavy, hardly a measurable quantity. But it's hard not to notice an avalanche if it hits you. And that's what was starting to happen in our database.
Maybe that says something about YOUR game?
I currently have 8 accounts and have 6-7 on them active while the other 1-2 are used as and when, normally 8/9 months of the year they are active now I just think I'll sell them and not bother.
Just another step towards being like WoW but hang on at least in WoW you get double XP while offline and can catch up unlike Eve 
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Kaitou Shiroi
Hakata Group
Blade.
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:04:00 -
[1218]
I can understand where CCP is coming from, but at the same time I agree with the vast majority of people here, in that if you advertise the idea of Ghost Training in your knowledge base, by default it cannot be a "bug." Obviously it was either intended, or at the very least acknowledged and encouraged.
---
Unless specifically stated otherwise, the opinions expressed in my posts do not reflect those held by my corporation or alliance.
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EnslaverOfMinmatar
Yarsk Hunters
DeaDSpace Coalition
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:05:00 -
[1219]
Originally by: Annaphera
Originally by: Planning Committee
Originally by: EnslaverOfMinmatar
proof that ghost-training IS A BUG
Is this a dumb troll?
CCP Wrangler just confirmed there that ghost training is the way it works. The skill will finish training, you just can't start training a next one until you resub and relogin.
Doesn't help either side, really, because it also doesn't say if it was intended, he's just confirming what happens.
lol u both noobs, it was sarcasm
Skills continue training even if you are logged off or if your account is inactive (in the second scenario you can't change skill tr |
Ava Baby
Morsus Mihi
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:05:00 -
[1220]
Here's an idea from the Features and Ideas Discussion section which doesn't seem that bad of a solution.
Originally by: Brother Welcome
I urge CCP to consider a 'suspend' state for player accounts, in which skill training continues to run. While suspended, you pay a lessened subscription fee.
Linky here
Originally by: Asestorian
I support this message. Whatever it is.
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The Jazz
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:06:00 -
[1221]
This is an alt, but I have 6 accounts generally 3-4 are active at a time while the the others ghost train. It was cool while it lasted but I cannot see myself now going along now with that many accounts.
Also as an Australian player the price of this game is getting a little to much, a 6 month sub hit my cc account on the 10th of this month when the AUD dipped to $0.65usd and it cost a lot :(
So can under stand why CCP are doing this, not going to OMG EMORAGE QUIT but I will be playing with less accounts and less cash to CCP as a result.
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Lindsikyev
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:06:00 -
[1222]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
Pretty much this. Bolded for emphasis.
|
Jowen Datloran
Caldari
Science and Trade Institute
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:07:00 -
[1223]
Edited by: Jowen Datloran on 14/10/2008 08:10:11
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives.
Yes, now you are indeed a company like everybody else. Before you were greater.
This blog is not written by somebody who is on level with their playerbase. It is written by the money grubbing bastards in Marketing who only cares about the numbers at bottom line and not about providing a service at all. Short term gains is all they aim for, because who cares about the long term where the game might have had to shut down.
Have you been taking lessons from EA, Sony, etc.?
----------------
Mr. Science & Trade Institute
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Doctor Fu
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:08:00 -
[1224]
Originally by: Jowen Datloran
Originally by: CCP t0rfifrans
Does that mean that CCP is a greedy money chewing monster that just loves nerfing things? Of course not. We're a company like everyone else, we make a game, that we happen to love making and for most of us is the passion of our lives.
Yes, now you are indeed a company like everybody else. Before you were greater.
This blog is not written by somebody who is on level with their playerbase. It is written by the money grubbing bastards in Marketing who only cares about the numbers at bottom line and not about providing a service at all.
Have you been taking lessons from EA, Sony, etc.?
CALM DOWN
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ultima miner
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:09:00 -
[1225]
Originally by: Lijhal
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
that sounds like a massively good pla to train all the char in 1 acount that wil be a really good way to salove it
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Arrs Grazznic
Poena Executive Solutions
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:10:00 -
[1226]
Originally by: Injuries
Please keep in mind that "Ghost Training" was primarily used to encourage players to have more than one account. When you train a skill and the subscription expires, you are most likely going to renew that subscription because you can't make use of the finished skill without logging back in. In other words, Ghost Training practically guarantees you will renew that subscription. So if you had 3 alts, it meant you would have to renew the subscription on all of them to make use of what you trained.
Nevermind that you are not able to engage in any activity while the account is inactive. Nevermind that the feature was in their game manual and was in the game for a whole 5 years. The Ghost Training feature that was in place was there to draw you back to playing again. I would go as far and say it was the top reason to have (and keep) more than one account running (even if they were not active all the time). To say that players are abusing this feature is ludicrous. Because the truth is that it served to encourage players to spend more money. That will change when this goes live.
What sucks the most is the fact that this was done with very little warning. It is almost ironic that I would cancel my only subscription only to find out that this feature will no longer be available. I honestly didn't really think about using Ghost Training until some good friends encouraged me to do it. I thought it would help rekindle my will to play eve after being away long enough. But now I have one less perk to come back to should I decide to return. I wish this would stay to help me make up all those days I forgot to train a skill. Maybe I will be lucky and CCP will grant an extension on when the change will go live. At least that would give players enough time so that they can prepare for it.
Here is wishing you all the best.
Computer end transmission.
Injuries.
Great post -- well said.
Cheers,
Arrs
Quote:
Is it just me who says "what can I do in real life: drink beer; walk around; put on clothes; fly a spaceship firing at other spaceships" and then use that to choose what I do on the internet?
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Brom Draco
Unitary Senate
Unitary Enterprises
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1227]
Originally by: Carsidava
Nope, sorry. This doesn't wash.
If you disable skill training for inactive accounts, why aren't you also disabling market orders from inactive accounts? Why aren't you also disabling RP accumulation from inactive accounts? Why aren't you disabling dividend payouts to inactive accounts?
Why are only skill points being hit?
Sorry CCP, this is an entirely unsatisfactory answer.
what he said ^
This is all too one sided, how can it better the 'player' when the above still carries on, how many times has dividends been paid to inactive accounts been raised etc? This is just a way to "boost" revenue, while at the same time causing a major percentage of subscribers to no longer pay for a game that HAD such a unique service.
CCP takes one stepforward, two steps back!
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Zartoll
Caldari
Electrostatik
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Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1228]
Thank you CCP!! I agree that someone should not be allowed to train their account while their subscription is inactive no matter the so-called justification on their part. If you don't pay for gas to put into your car then your car runs out and stops... should be no different here. I never liked the fact that people were doing this and will never agree that it should have been or should be allowed. As for the people that keep stating that CCP is just a money-grubbing company, I say to you, start your own MMO and give it away for free. I do not agree with everything that CCP does but this is one decision that I whole-heartedly agree with!
Frag Incorporated |
xOmGx
Warriors tribe
Red Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:11:00 -
[1229]
Quote:
Originally by: Lijhal
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
i do not understand, why after 5 years, they are changing this "feature" of EvE-Online into a "bug" ... 5 god damned years !!!
So, if you are going to change this, please consider to give the player base following options:
Player Base
1. movement of characters for FREE onto other accounts, for, lets say, a month
2. the option to merge existing characters into one
3. Skill Queque
4. All characters on one Account can learn Skills
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
that sounds like a massively good pla to train all the char in 1 acount that wil be a really good way to salove it
+1
No Pain - No Gain |
Kerdrak
3B Legio IX
Atlas Alliance
|
Posted - 2008.10.14 08:12:00 -
[1230]
CCP easy steps to make more money:
-Removal of 30d GTC. Check
-Removal of Ghost Training feat... BUG. Check
-Expansions at 30$?
________________________________________
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